Motor Trend Long Term Test 04 TL-merged with thread started 10/8/05
09-10-2005, 10:20 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Motor Trend Long Term Test 04 TL
Got my new motor trend in the mail today(october), it has a long term test of the 04 TL. It seemed liek they liked it but they touched on a few of the issues people are having here (fading dash, new brakes and wraped rotors were needed and crappy tires.) They thought the dash was due to bad cleaning products at a full service car wash but I would have to say they are wrong due to so many people having problems here. Just thought it was an intresting read and maybe Me or someone will post up the article if there is intrest.
09-12-2005, 05:37 PM
#4
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I had warped/glazed rotors and brake shudder at 19k miles. I read about this before so I knew it was an issue with some new TLs. The guy at Acura actually tried making me pay for this at first, so I told him I also have an Accord which didn't exhibit brake shudder until 95k miles and 3 rotor machine jobs. He called his manager and approved it as warrantee work under "goodwill". If anyone feels brake shudder within the first brake job, DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO MAKE YOU PAY FOR THE WORK.
That's all.
That's all.
09-12-2005, 05:55 PM
#5
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Same here, my rotors warped around 7k miles and I complained for two oil change appointments. On the 3rd, we argued and argued and I finally got them to turn the rotors as a "goodwill" gesture which is B.S.
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09-12-2005, 07:53 PM
#8
Originally Posted by scrb09
can you scan up and post the article ? interested to read the review...
Originally Posted by peacefrog
interested in article, post it please
Selected portions may be quoted, as long as they are kept to a minimum, but not the complete article.
If you have a link to an online source for the article, you may post the link.
09-12-2005, 11:42 PM
#9
dash fading?? i believe that armorall messes up the dash, because it contains silicone. my old car had a gray interior, after a year of armorall use my gray interior turned to brownish color. people actually thought i had a tan interior. therefor i refuse to clean with armorall, just with a wet rag.
09-13-2005, 06:34 AM
#11
Safety Car
Originally Posted by bulacura
dash fading?? i believe that armorall messes up the dash, because it contains silicone. my old car had a gray interior, after a year of armorall use my gray interior turned to brownish color. people actually thought i had a tan interior. therefor i refuse to clean with armorall, just with a wet rag.
09-13-2005, 10:56 AM
#12
Community Architect
robb m.
robb m.
Tennis: you may scan and post the article, just include the magazines logos etc.
09-13-2005, 06:04 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
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Here it is:
Just send me a pm with your email if u would like it in a better quality pdf for use with a dealer or something
Just send me a pm with your email if u would like it in a better quality pdf for use with a dealer or something
09-13-2005, 08:25 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by 04TL5ATNAV
Same here, my rotors warped around 7k miles and I complained for two oil change appointments. On the 3rd, we argued and argued and I finally got them to turn the rotors as a "goodwill" gesture which is B.S.
09-13-2005, 08:30 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by DMZ
Make sure they don't over tighten the lug nuts. They should be 80 ft-lbs. Overtightened lug nuts are one of the chief causes of warped rotors on Acuras and Hondas.
09-14-2005, 05:33 AM
#19
WDP Director of R & D
Originally Posted by cliff
u can over torque them with your hands too, but not likely, unless you got really big arms
Small arms and a lot of leverage = over-torquing
Basically, if you're using an 8-10 inch ratchet 80lbs takes some force. If you have a 20+ inch breaker bar, 80lbs is quite easily achieved/exceeded...
09-18-2005, 08:14 PM
#20
Senior Moderator
Thanks for the scans, jon. I plan to post my two-year TL impressions in a couple of weeks. I can't believe it's been that long already.
A preview: I can still drive it like I stole it. 'nuff said.
A preview: I can still drive it like I stole it. 'nuff said.
09-18-2005, 08:43 PM
#22
I am sure that the brake problem as well as others is caused by cheaper materials. The sedan is the lower priced of all that were compared and while they might not like the G interior as well, the TL is more cheaply constructed and this has shown across the brand since the 2g debuted. The problem I have is even if thye give you new brakes at 15k you still have the same problem later and have to look to aftermarket parts
I am sure that over torqueing the bolts might cause some issue now and then but why does acura seem to have this problem much more so than any other.
I am sure that over torqueing the bolts might cause some issue now and then but why does acura seem to have this problem much more so than any other.
10-08-2005, 10:17 AM
#23
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Motor Trend Long Term Test of 2004 TL
I got around to reading the Motor Trend New Car issue article on their long term test of the Acura TL. Overall they liked the car very much and basically said if it were rwd, it would be hands down the best car in its segment. However they found several flaws which have been reported ad nauseum on this web-site:
1. Torque steer (which I understand has been corrected on 06 model). Motor Trend wondered how Acura engineers failed to address that problem before car was rolled out to public.
2. Low profile tires which on the AT version of car are inadequate (as we all know), and furthermore they cause the rims to scratch too easily. The reviewer noted that he had left a lot of silver paint on curbs all over L.A.
3. Discoloration on the top of dash which they thought could have been caused by sun but more likely, by automatic car wash people who use too strong a solvent to clean interior of vehicle. I have also noticed this problem on my 04, and I do go to a automatic car wash rather than clean it myself. I haven't seen any comments about this problem from others on this site.
Motor Trend loved the audio system and said it was best on market. They also loved interior in general. I thought the article was interesting in that they pointed out all of the strengths and weaknesses of the TL which have been reported on here, except for the top of the dash discoloration. I am going to talk to my Acura dealer about this problem next time I bring the car in for service.
1. Torque steer (which I understand has been corrected on 06 model). Motor Trend wondered how Acura engineers failed to address that problem before car was rolled out to public.
2. Low profile tires which on the AT version of car are inadequate (as we all know), and furthermore they cause the rims to scratch too easily. The reviewer noted that he had left a lot of silver paint on curbs all over L.A.
3. Discoloration on the top of dash which they thought could have been caused by sun but more likely, by automatic car wash people who use too strong a solvent to clean interior of vehicle. I have also noticed this problem on my 04, and I do go to a automatic car wash rather than clean it myself. I haven't seen any comments about this problem from others on this site.
Motor Trend loved the audio system and said it was best on market. They also loved interior in general. I thought the article was interesting in that they pointed out all of the strengths and weaknesses of the TL which have been reported on here, except for the top of the dash discoloration. I am going to talk to my Acura dealer about this problem next time I bring the car in for service.
10-08-2005, 10:47 AM
#25
2005TL(6MT)
Originally Posted by invincible569
Just shows you those car magazines arent biased. Great post bro.
There are other magazines that are very biased in their reviews/tests. IE: Car And Driver can't seem to let BMW place anything less then first in a comparison. And sometimes make unfair comparisons.
10-08-2005, 10:58 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
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good info though
10-08-2005, 01:41 PM
#28
1. Torque steer (which I understand has been corrected on 06 model). Motor Trend wondered how Acura engineers failed to address that problem before car was rolled out to public.
2. Low profile tires which on the AT version of car are inadequate (as we all know), and furthermore they cause the rims to scratch too easily. The reviewer noted that he had left a lot of silver paint on curbs all over L.A.
3. Discoloration on the top of dash which they thought could have been caused by sun but more likely, by automatic car wash people who use too strong a solvent to clean interior of vehicle. I have also noticed this problem on my 04, and I do go to a automatic car wash rather than clean it myself. I haven't seen any comments about this problem from others on this site.
Motor Trend loved the audio system and said it was best on market. They also loved interior in general. I thought the article was interesting in that they pointed out all of the strengths and weaknesses of the TL which have been reported on here, except for the top of the dash discoloration. I am going to talk to my Acura dealer about this problem next time I bring the car in for service.[/QUOTE]
Most if not all FWD can experience some torque steer. My first front driver had it 20 years back. As for totally eliminating that problem, it could take some performance away from the car. The tires help in keeping the car planted to the road surface.
As for the rim scratching too easily... The 2 g design rims protruded too much but was corrected in later 2g models. But... the lower profile tires are not higher than the curbs, so if you like to use the touch method to pull against a curb you are going to get damage. You can get tires with reinforced sidewalls which help protect against side wall damage, but you are going to have scratched rims with performance tires if you do not know how to drive. Lower profile rims to not cause scratches...PEOPLE DO...
2. Low profile tires which on the AT version of car are inadequate (as we all know), and furthermore they cause the rims to scratch too easily. The reviewer noted that he had left a lot of silver paint on curbs all over L.A.
3. Discoloration on the top of dash which they thought could have been caused by sun but more likely, by automatic car wash people who use too strong a solvent to clean interior of vehicle. I have also noticed this problem on my 04, and I do go to a automatic car wash rather than clean it myself. I haven't seen any comments about this problem from others on this site.
Motor Trend loved the audio system and said it was best on market. They also loved interior in general. I thought the article was interesting in that they pointed out all of the strengths and weaknesses of the TL which have been reported on here, except for the top of the dash discoloration. I am going to talk to my Acura dealer about this problem next time I bring the car in for service.[/QUOTE]
Most if not all FWD can experience some torque steer. My first front driver had it 20 years back. As for totally eliminating that problem, it could take some performance away from the car. The tires help in keeping the car planted to the road surface.
As for the rim scratching too easily... The 2 g design rims protruded too much but was corrected in later 2g models. But... the lower profile tires are not higher than the curbs, so if you like to use the touch method to pull against a curb you are going to get damage. You can get tires with reinforced sidewalls which help protect against side wall damage, but you are going to have scratched rims with performance tires if you do not know how to drive. Lower profile rims to not cause scratches...PEOPLE DO...
10-08-2005, 06:45 PM
#29
WDP Director of R & D
Due to the fact that the power goes through the front wheels and the front wheels "steer' the vehicle, getting "completely" rid of torque steer would be very hard (if not impossible) on FWD vehicles. You may very well eliminate all of the mechanical causes: even length axles, perfect torque split differential, adaptive steering dampening, etc. etc., but like someone mentioned above, road variations will near always cause FWD cars to "vector" a little on hard accelerations.. Thats the variable that engineers can't remove.
Someday we will probably see/drive "steer by wire" vehicles with algorithms that do a great job of replicating road feel yet at the same time remove all "steering wheel" torque feel. Then it would be like a RWD... You may get a vehicular motion from the torque but the driver would be reacting to the car without the steering wheel being pulled one direction or another.
Bottom line, for those of us that have owned many make/models of FWD vehicles, I find Honda's to be one of the best in regards to managing torque steer.
Cheers
Someday we will probably see/drive "steer by wire" vehicles with algorithms that do a great job of replicating road feel yet at the same time remove all "steering wheel" torque feel. Then it would be like a RWD... You may get a vehicular motion from the torque but the driver would be reacting to the car without the steering wheel being pulled one direction or another.
Bottom line, for those of us that have owned many make/models of FWD vehicles, I find Honda's to be one of the best in regards to managing torque steer.
Cheers
10-08-2005, 07:06 PM
#30
Originally Posted by mickey3c
I am sure that the brake problem as well as others is caused by cheaper materials. The sedan is the lower priced of all that were compared and while they might not like the G interior as well, the TL is more cheaply constructed and this has shown across the brand since the 2g debuted. The problem I have is even if thye give you new brakes at 15k you still have the same problem later and have to look to aftermarket parts
I am sure that over torqueing the bolts might cause some issue now and then but why does acura seem to have this problem much more so than any other.
I am sure that over torqueing the bolts might cause some issue now and then but why does acura seem to have this problem much more so than any other.
When I was on the Jaguar list, everyone had warped rotors.
On the Passat list, everyone had warped rotors.
My wife used to have a new Taurus that warped its rotors twice in its first year.
On the other hand, I have NEVER had warped rotors on my cars.
I do the brake work, and dont let anyone use an air impact wrench on my lug nuts. I use a tourqe wrench.
Care during the brake work prevents warped rotors, using
quality parts, cleaning the mating surfaces, using high temp grease
on the rotor flanges (aids in heat transfer) and on the back of the pads
(eliminates noise).
Have your brakes done at any shop and they just slap new parts on rusty
hubs, and do up the lug nuts to 200 ft pounds with an air impact wrench.
For many cars (even Jaguars) quality rotors like brembo or ate cost
around $30.00 each if you know where to shop.
It does not pay to do anything but replace them with the pads.
On my 2003 passat GLX (german parts are usualy expensive),
www.getcoolparts.com had rotors for under $30.00 each, no tax
and free shipping.
Brett
10-08-2005, 10:06 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Brettg
All other brands get warped rotors.
When I was on the Jaguar list, everyone had warped rotors.
On the Passat list, everyone had warped rotors.
My wife used to have a new Taurus that warped its rotors twice in its first year.
Brett
When I was on the Jaguar list, everyone had warped rotors.
On the Passat list, everyone had warped rotors.
My wife used to have a new Taurus that warped its rotors twice in its first year.
Brett
Not so... I have been driving a lot of cars over 30 years and the only car that ever got warped rotors was after they were turned. They had to be replaced every brake job (50K). You been driving crap is all. My 2G CL S type had original brakes when I traded it at 83,000 miles. No warping at all..
Maybe you and the wife are very hard on your cars.. As for the ford... that's a Fix Or Repair Daily automobile...
thing is the 3Gs have more brake issues than the 2Gs had...
Stop believing that it is normal to get warped rotors... IT ISN'T Crap for quality is what it is or poor assembly process...
10-08-2005, 11:40 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by WdnUlik2no
yeah I stay away from amorall.
10-08-2005, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by trancemission
niec post Bob. I agree with that torque steer, man you gotta hang on..
I don't think we'll ever see anything rear drive from Acura, so the magazines ought to get over it.
10-09-2005, 05:06 PM
#34
Black
Originally Posted by Brettg
All other brands get warped rotors.
When I was on the Jaguar list, everyone had warped rotors.
On the Passat list, everyone had warped rotors.
My wife used to have a new Taurus that warped its rotors twice in its first year.
On the other hand, I have NEVER had warped rotors on my cars.
I do the brake work, and dont let anyone use an air impact wrench on my lug nuts. I use a tourqe wrench.
When I was on the Jaguar list, everyone had warped rotors.
On the Passat list, everyone had warped rotors.
My wife used to have a new Taurus that warped its rotors twice in its first year.
On the other hand, I have NEVER had warped rotors on my cars.
I do the brake work, and dont let anyone use an air impact wrench on my lug nuts. I use a tourqe wrench.
It's not just in the brake department, but this is definitely a weak area.
-josh
10-09-2005, 05:52 PM
#35
Aaaarrrggghhhh!
Originally Posted by mickey3c
.. As for the ford... that's a Fix Or Repair Daily automobile.....
\Personal Dream Muscle Car "project" is a '69 Mach 1 428 Cobra Jet (R code).. If I can just get my damn wife to agree with me. Her usual response =
\\Don't tell her I called her my "damn wife"
\\\Running now.......
10-10-2005, 09:29 AM
#36
Bobz
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Originally Posted by Nello1
My dash is totally faded, I mean bad. Pretty much turning a powder white. I do not garage my car so it does get some sun. Lucky me it all started at about 4 months after purchase. This car has been detailed only once; buy the dealer when they added the paint sealant crap. Shortly after is when I noticed the fade. Acura has tried and tried to fix it but they have had no luck. They originally told me they would need to replace my entire dash. When I told them if that is true they would need to buy back my car and kick down a new car without the problem. I don't need my airbags and everything else torn up in my brand new 35k car. Of course they said they had a fix for it afterwards...not. They have unsuccessfully tried 5 or 6 times now by 2 different dealers. It has just gotten worse guys, if you have a problem get it documented ASAP.
10-10-2005, 09:35 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by Scribesoft
I always thought they were First On Race Day?
\Personal Dream Muscle Car "project" is a '69 Mach 1 428 Cobra Jet (R code).. If I can just get my damn wife to agree with me. Her usual response =
\\Don't tell her I called her my "damn wife"
\\\Running now.......
\Personal Dream Muscle Car "project" is a '69 Mach 1 428 Cobra Jet (R code).. If I can just get my damn wife to agree with me. Her usual response =
\\Don't tell her I called her my "damn wife"
\\\Running now.......
