kelly408

i will be puttin in mobil 1 oil and filter tonite on my car. i'm just wondering how the MID will interpret the new oil life. since the mobil 1 oil should last 7k+ (in most cases 10k+), how does the computer recognize the extended life of synthetic oils?

Stewie

I doubt it will.

Bxscig

I am not sure how the 3rd gen works but in the c5 vette, the computer inside processes the life of the oil by checking the resistance and all. Soo if u rev it higher the life of the oil will go down and etc... So in that case the extended life would adjust accordingly. It might be the same in the 3rd gen TL.

Ron A

The MID doesn't know what kind of oil you are using. You could put in chicken fat and it would still compute the same.

The MID does not sample the oil, but it takes into consideration your driving habits, average speeds, temperature, starts and stops, and maybe something else I can't think of. I don't believe it works like the Corvette.

Pug

I can confirm it doesn't recognize the oil. I changed recently to Mobil 1, and it still is counting down at the same rate (~10%/500 miles). Since it's pretty easy to change the oil in this car, I'll just do it every 5k even though it's syn.

caball88

yeah it won't recognize that its synthetic and suppose to last longer. what i would still do is when the mid tells you to change the oil is to at least change the filter. i know most synthetics are rated for much higher than the standard 3K oil life. most oil filters(even mobil 1) will not last the same amount of time.

kelly408

thanks for the replies. i recently ran into some interesting reading material regarding synthetic oil and oil changes. check out this site and click onto the Mobil 1 Test Results link to read about the test he did using Mobil 1 oil.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

changing your Mobil 1 oil after only 5k may not be the best thing to do according to the article.

Pug

Great article. It really confounds the conventional wisdom that you should change the oil frequently, and if you're in a hurry let the filter slide. Their tests show it's the opposite - don't change the oil so often, but change the filter every 5k.

kelly408

yup. pretty interesting huh? now i guess its up to the reader to trust what this guy did or says. it sounds pretty convincing to me tho! i guess i'll have to bypass the MID the next time it tells me my oil needs changing. i'll just have to write down the mileage each time i change my oil and go with that. according to that study, i'll just need to top off the oil every 1k miles and i should be fine for 10k easily!

Road Rage

This is an important question.

1) I do not believe the Acura algorithm is dynamic - that is, it does not use active sensor mechanisms to dynamically survey the oil. It could easily check for acidification, which would show when the TBN has dropped to a dangerously low level.
2) So, it is static, and likely based on mineral oil performance, and it is very "forgiving" of that performance. As good as modern mineral oils are, I have looked at literally 100's of them ijn the last 6 months (www.bobistheoilguy.com, or BITOG), and it is rare to see even the best minoils go the 8000+ miles that Acura is allowing. But Acura's objectives are to minimize total cost of ownership, irritating trips to the dealership, reduce waste oil so they look greener, and get the car past the warranty period, and to a reasonable engine life (100k or so). They also know that with leasees, they want the minimum maintenance. So I personally will not follow their advice, but will over-maintain my car in every category - yearly ATF changes, change coolant every 3 years (they say 10 - ten years!).
3) Remember, that service intervals are based on a car in proper running order. I do oil analyses with every change, as I can get them free. So I know right away if I have an air filter leak, a fractured oil filter, or coolant leaking into the engine oil. Do you? I also know exactly what to look for in terms of wear to see if the 5w20 is preventing wear, or is a 5w30 or a 10w30 a better choice? I also believe that a synoil meeting Honda's ATF Z spec (like Amsoil's) is a good bet to avoid the heat that destroys trannies, and may extend its ervice life - and the Honda/Acura trannies have not been robust - perhaops Acura thinks they have the problem licked, but remember, this is the company that developed the MID in the sdame time that the trannies were not fixed, and were still crapping out, and have been recalled. Does that make you feel a bit uneasy, in the gut and in your mind? It does me, and I will act in my best interest, not Acuras, even if it rasises my maintenance costs a bit. I mean, would Acura be successful in a court of law saying I wrecked my car by OVER-MAINTAINING it? Not in Virginia courts based on my experiences.
4) Mercedes-Benz uses a static algorithm as well, and look what happened to them. The algorithm was based on the extended service life (OCI's/oil change intervals) of SYNTHETIC lubes like M1. In the US, they recommended (or allowed) customers to use mineral oils, and they were going upwards of 10-12K OCI's. When peolelk started to do analyses of their oil, and found elevated wear metals in their UOA's, they cried "Foul". M-B settled a class-action for $32 million dollars (said with Dr. Evil emphasis). See the import of that? The line between "adequate" maintenance and "educated" maintenance is not at all a thick line. I treat my cars as if I were going to own them forever - if one of you ever considers buying a used car from me, it will be in the best mechanical condition possible as determined by preventive maintenance. By that model, I will follow service intervals for all the systems in the car based on comments in #2, above. If anyoneis interested, I will be tabulating those recommendations, and can either post them or PM you.
5) Note that Acura does still has the good sense to recommend 2-3 year brake fluid flushes. GM and Fird think their fluidds last forever (untiol the warranty expires). It is amazing to me that they allow cars to go 5-6 years, at which point the fluid is l;ikely to boil under severe load use - mountain driving, towinmg, etc. Ford probably has a bit of an edge, because their DOT3 fluid is the best in the business.
************************************************** ********************
I have not read the "Neptune" study on Mobil1, but I scanned it, and the TBN starting point jumped off the sheet at me - TBN is a very important idnicator of an oil's life cycle, and I have never seen a TBN of Mobil anywhere near 12.5 at the 0 mile start. I have a stat sheet from Mobil that has it in the 8 range or so (it is also on the 10 oil analysis I posted in The Oil Journals). Now, there are varying ways of measuring TBN, and some of the professional labs do a better job than others - but i will have to give the study a careful read and an analysis later. I think their major points are valid - that in a properly operating modern car, oil life can be extended, and that over-changing it is dangerous, and operhaps counter-productive. i posted separately on how over-changing the oil can cause elevated levels of the phosphorous compounds that the SL-API spec attempted to reduce in the first place, because the light factioned carrier oils are volatile, and allow more phos to get in the catalytic converters than would normally occur if one went to the recommended OCI.

For those who say I post in too much detail, I apologize.

roadman

RoadRage ?

" I do oil analyses with every change, as I can get them free. Do You ? "

For free I would, for a fee would you ?

Without a doubt it would be ideal to lab test oil at evey change, but for the vast majority us it is not. Trust a regular, disciplined maintenance schedule and use quality products.

Road Rage

I would do it even if it cost me, although i agree that what you said is a good practice. But it is the unplanned for mechanical defect that is the most risky - such as a leaking seal or head gasket that starts to dump coolant into your oil, or a leaky ATF cooler that starts to pull coolant into the ATF. Even the most disciplined schedule will put you at risk, and these longer schedules make the risk even more acute. In the "3K and out" oil change days, seeing "milk chocolate" in the oil was a dead giveaway, but the worst case was it has been leaking for 3k miles - today the worst case could be 9k miles. See the diff?

A UOA can be had for less than $12/pop - that is cheap compared to any major engine assembly these days. Now, one could hold off until the last maintenance before the warranty runs out, or ignore it if the car is leased. (Another reason to avoid "program" cars).

Again, I write from the perspective of wanting to keep my car in the best condition I can, and have it last forever. I never keep them long enough to see what that life might be, but I have found that my cars sell fast, when the buyer sees he is dealing with a maintenance fanatic who has method to his madness.

roadman

Agreed, by the time one would see the root cause of the leak, there could be significant damage. I guess it is all a preventative mindset. As you said for $12 for the UOA plus most likely the same amount for an ATF test, at the very least once a year the $24 can save many thousands in repairs. Just by doing my own oil hanges I save that much in one oil change vs someone who goes to a dealership.

Leased cars are perhaps the worst to purchase, I recall my neighbor never did an oil change until it was time to turn the car in, just added the occassional QT of teh cheapest oil that he could find whenever it was low

Road Rage

RM:
The ATF test is optional - I do not do routine ones, as a visual inspection tells you a lot - if you see a lot of debris, or it looks like Cherry Maalox, things are not well. If the fluid is cheery red and pretty clear, and smells oily, you are likely good to go. Engine oil ids a different story, other than the milkshake look, as the things you want to analyze are not visible to the naked eye, and used oil is filthy.
Glnn.