I got a pretty good deal on a 2004 TL w/navi, desert mist, parchment, from Norris West Acura. $34,144 w/dest., doc. fee, wheel locks. Not the best deal, but not the worst. The salesman told me they don't order their cars until May 20, so it would be well into June before mine came. But, having called around to 8 other dealers, and finding that very few of them had any navis, I put down $500.

Well, another dealership's salesman called me back, and said he could have one by May 15, at $33,486 w/dest. and doc. fee. But I couldn't get this guy to put the details in writing. He would email me with "The numbers and the date we discussed are still valid", but would never write out what they were! I finally sent him an email with everything we'd agreed on written out, and told him I needed him to send a copy of it back to me, with his okay. He sent me back, "Those numbers look good to me", without sending a copy of my email back. Also, he wouldn't take a credit card down payment, only a check. I've checked their inventory on the Acura site, and they don't have this car scheduled to come in through June 15 (as late as it goes).

So, I called Norris, and told them about this offer. My salesman immediately came down $400, and asked to call me back after doing some checking. When he did, he said, "I'm sorry, but someone is lying to you. No one is scheduled to get that car in in that time frame in a 5 state area." I decided to stick with Norris.

Was I right to be so suspicious of this guy refusing to put his offer in writing? Or did I just walk away from a good deal?

 

Yes, you did do the right thing by not trusting that dealer. If they are going to go through that much extra effort to avoid putting something in writing, stay far away. Though, I don't understand why Norris is saying they can't order the car until May 20. Perhaps all the Navis for the next couple weeks are already allocated - it just seems odd.

 

They don't put things in writing because you will use it to get a better price from another dealer. I had someone do that for me and the Acura dealer here was pissed off because they did and discounted the new Type-s that was just released.

 

I have no problem with quote shopping or using one quote to get a better price from another dealer - as long as you don't over do it. If you are trying to squeeze every last penny of profit out of the dealer, then they have the right to get upset. But if you are just trying to get a reasonable deal, then to heck with what the dealer thinks. They can either match/beat the price, or they can't - it's that simple. Dealers have the right and expectation of making a profit, but the consuer has the right to try and prevent getting taken advantage of. I'd bet that if blu had gone to the second dealer to get the car, the pricing would not have been what was agreed upon.

 

Never ever feel sorry for the dealer. They are making a nice profit on TL's right now and tough, if they have to compete a little bit. The consumer needs every tool possible to get a good deal. Would you rather have the money in your pocket or theirs?

 

Well, I guess I can understand them not wanting to put it in writing to prevent me from shopping quotes, but my first dealer came down without seeing anything in writing. Also, I made it clear to the second dealer that I had already put down a deposit elsewhere, and insisted on seeing our deal in writing in order to jump ship.

And I definitely don't feel sorry for dealers! By my calculations, they will make $1079 profit from this deal. That's plenty.

 

Ask yourself this: do they feel sorry for you when they make a huge profit? I seriously doubt it. Even the "nice" salesmen are only there for one reason - to make money. As much as posible. There's no reason to get abusive when dealing with them, just leave or hang up. But it's understandable.

If you walked in uninformed and they squeezed you for full MSRP would they be posting questions on a web site about whether they should feel guilty. :lol2:

Back in the late 90s I was looking for a new bike. A local dealer was adding $1500 to the price of a new model. I laughed at him. He said "It's what the market will bear". I said I'll come back when the market won't bear it. He laughed at me. Now they're out of business and I'm laughing again. Screw 'em. :thefinger

 

Man...people never get it. My dad sold cars for years. There's NOTHING wrong with a dealer trying to make a profit. These guys are providing a service and deserve to be compensated. AS long as the deal is fair to you then that should be enough. I get a kick out of these people who come in and want it for invoice then argue "well you're making 3% on the holdback"...Well did anyone ever think that the holdback goes to keeping the dealership running, paying salaries of the non-comissioned people, keeping the lights on, renting the place, etc. jeeze oh man....it's like when it comes to cars people want them for free. If you pay $500 over invoice or $100 over invoice or $1000 over invoice...all that matters is whether you feel you are being treated fairly and whether you feel the car is worth it. Don't get me wrong,,,,,I LOVE no haggle pricing. But certain types of buyers need to realize that the salesmen need to make a living too and it's a tough job. A LOT of wasted time on non-buyers just out to try something new, a lot of idiots, a lot of weekend/9PM closings, etc.

 

I had a similair experience. I went to Pohanka which is a reputable acura dealership i was told that they couldnt get the Nav/6/mt in for the next three months so i was ok with that i was willing to wait for the car. However since they got rude with me during negotiations they werent even willing to get me the colors that i prefered i left and wasnt even going to look at TL's because i was that turned off by the experience and a friend told me about another dealership to go to and this guy and Radley told me the same thing how ever he was willing "locate" the car and trade one of their rare cars for the one i wanted...he found the color and package that i wanted and as he said traded it for that one...
so its very possible that they arent going to get anymore cars in that time frame....and while at pohanka we were told that in may acura was making their last 2004 TL models so from what i heard its correct however if they really want the sale they can "locate" the car. Hope this helps Ania (sorry its so long)

 

How did this turn into a thread about feeling sorry for dealers? I was asking if I should have been suspicious of one giving me the run around! :smackhead Also, I just saw on the Acura website dealer inventory that a local dealer will be getting my car in next week. So, what does that say about my dealer who said no one was getting one in? I just left him a message asking him if he can do a swap for it. If not, I'll jump ship (unless that car's already spoken for ).

 

My car that I had ordered was also listed on the dealer's website; however, that was just the way THEY handled their own website. My salesman said the put all their incoming cars on their website, whether reserved for a customer or not.

 

It didn't. I just threw in my two cents.....becasue a few rotten apples (like your example) spoil it for those honest ones out there who are there simply to earn a living like we all are.

 

Of course the dealer needs to make a profit. I didn't mean to imply he shouldn't. He's got expenses. But dealers who try to take advantage of people do not deserve my business or anyone else's. If dealer A can sell a car for X dollars then dealer B should be able to do the same. If his business structure is such that he cannot or will not that's not my problem.

Face it, everyone knows that walking into a car delership to buy a car is not the most pleasant experience. And why? Because you know they are going to try to get as much out of you as possible. I don't get that at Stop & Shop when I buy food. Or at the clothing store. The price is the price, take it or leave it. No ups, no extras, no BS.

This is all related to the topic of the thread regarding trusting a salesman. I worked at a large dealer back in college and know what goes on and how the salesmen regarded customers. Maybe that's why I hate buying cars so much that I hang on to them for a long time.

I know in this area Honda/Acura dealers are notorious for gouging customers and adding huge markups to popular models. When the S2000 came out one dealer had a $6000 "market adjustment" on a unit on the showroom floor. I will never do business with them. I understand supply and demand but give me a break.

 

Agreed...except for your first statement. Dealer A and dealer B should not necessarily be able to sell you the same car for the same money for the same reason supermarket a charged .99 for corn and supermarket b charges 1.29 for the same can. If you want to go to A, that's your choice. But it's naive to think all places can sell the same products for the same money. Different areas, different structures, different facilities, different taxes, salaries, services, etc. etc. etc.

Yes you are right to think there are people out there scamming you. It's very unfortunate.As far as gouging....the market sets the price (capitalism). If people are willing to pay it they'd be stupid to charge less. If anyone thinks it is too much there are other dealers/models open to them. My wife paid $200 over invoice for her PT cruiser. Our friends paid $500 over sticker for the identical car 6 months earlier. Whether that's fair or not I don't know but to the buyers, we both decided for us it was fair as we both walked away with the vehicles.

A very fun debate!!!

 

Interesting comment. I was with a guy the other day who told me he has been able to haggle prices at Wal Mart on major purchases (electronics, appliances etc.). You just never thought to try!

And all of you who are good negotiators and do your homework, think about something else. It is because the dealers sell many cars at list (or higher than you are paying) that they are able to sell some customers at better prices. It all has to average out. If they didn't haggle, your price would actually be higher. The winners would be the people who don't know how to work the best deal.

 

Heh... I actually like going in for car negotiations - especially when it isn't me buying the car. Twice, I have gone in with friends to help them get a car and it was fun watching the salesperson get annoyed that I actually knew so much about the car, pricing and financing. One of the guys ended up saying too much (how much he liked the car and mentioned how much of a monthly payment he could afford :smackhead) and didn't get as good a deal as he could have. The other friend got a good negotiated price, but I think he had some things tacked on during financing (I wasn't there). When it's you buying/leasing the car, it's a little tougher, but still rather pleasant. When I got the TL, I did pretty much all of my price shopping and negotiating over e-mail and the phone - paperwork was waiting for me before I ever stepped foot in the dealership. The dealer gave me what I considered a fair price (no where near the invoice prices on the east coast), considering the demand on the vehicle, so it worked out for both of us - without any games or confrontational negotiations. Win-Win.

 

...and buying the dealership owner a new yacht.

I get a kick out of dealership personnel who plead poverty:



"Oh, no, sir, we couldn't possibly sell you this car at that price - we need to feed our families, you know!!"

:lol1:

 

The Honda dealers in Hawaii charge +4000 on the S2000. Well, they put a second sticker on it but don't always get it. It's the same here at our Acura store. But this is all relative. Back in 1999 a couple on vacation saw a Red S2000 on the front line, walked in and asked how much? They were told the full price (msrp+4000) and they said,"we'll take it"! They were on the waiting list where they lived at msrp+8000.

As for the original poster asking about ordering. MOVE (our ordering system) comes up on the 19th or 20th. This is when we'll place our next orders for cars.

 

I think there's a misconception that I sell cars. I don't. But I understand that they deserve to get paid like eveyone else. Some people out here don't and think they deserve the Mercedes for the same price as the Yugo.

 

Colin, thanks for the clarification on why my dealer had to wait until the 20th to order the car. Is it true that the last 2004 TL's will be ordered in May? Thanks for everyone's great info!

 

I was told that the 19th-20th of the month is when dealers put their orders in. Now my dealer was able to do a swap with another dealer who already had an order in so that saved me about a months time.

 

If your phone ain't ringing, don't answer it...

 

I never feel bad for a car dealer. I 1) never lie to them and 2) try to get a car for the absoluetly lowest price I can.

I don't give a flying leap whether or not they make a penny. If they do, great, if they don't great. Does not matter to me. Are they concerned on whether or not my kids eat or my mortgage gets paid? No, they are trying to sell me a car for the absolute highest they can, and I am trying to get it for the lowest I can.

Dealers have NO RIGHT TO MAKE A PROFIT on the sale of a car. First, they get holdback. Then there are hidden incentives, then there is money they make on the service dept. Plug in that stuff and fifteen other things and BOOM, you get a profitable car dealer.

What a deal does have a right to do is not sell me a car at the price I am willing to pay. Just as I have the right not to buy. They also have the right not to negotiate, etc.

Its called the free market. If I play seven dealers all against each other, good for me, and I should, and squeeze them down the

ABSOLUTE LOWEST NICKLE I am willing to pay.

I don't mean to get personal in replying to this post, just an honest disagreement.

Its all supply and demand.

Remember, always remember, the dealer is trying to get every damn cent he can from you...on financing, trade in, extras, everything. And more power to him, he is trying to make a living.

I think my only obligation is to not out right lie, same with him. Also, I should not waste his time and expect the same.

When negotiating, I am upfront in the fact that I am buying X car....my TL in this case, I want this color, this transmission and

a) am willing to pay X or,
b) am going to buy tomorrow from which every one of you screwballs gives me the best OTD price.

At the end of every negotiation like that, I walked away with a new car, a smile on my face and a happy dealer.

Whew...rant over.

Keep moving kids, nothing to see here.

 

No haggle pricing. That's a hoot. Read studies on no haggle pricing. It leads to two things:

1. A happy sap of a buyer who thinks he is getting a fair price.

2. A happy dealer who absolutely is getting a higher profit per car based on invoice price that a haggled deal.

 

This is probably an "area" debate. I know in the Philadelphia area, the dealerships I have visited with no ghaggle pricing were consistently 200-400 over invoice. Pretty good deals in general

 

johnb34 - everyone has the right to my opinion

You can spend as much time and energy on the car negotiations as you want. Could I have probably saved another 100-200 dollars on my car? Perhaps, but it would have taken several hours more time and lots of traveling between dealers to get it. In my opinion and situation, it wasn't worth the extra effort. There was no chance of me getting $500 more off the car without flying to NY or NJ and having the car shipped back here - no thanks. Like I said, I feel I got a fair deal, am happy with my choices and do not feel like a sap.

 

Now that one, I haven't heard! I don't think the '04 'final build out' is this months allocation! More likely it is around August-September, with the final cars delivered 2 months later. Having said that, remember that the new RL comes out in September-October, and Acura does not usually do a model year change over at the same time as a new product launch.

 

Exactly the point. Well said. If the buyer is happy with the deal and feels he/she paid a fair amount, then what the dealer makes on the deal shouldn't matter. You're happy which is all that matters. Others always seem like they want to know what the dealer is making. My point is who cares! Come up with your fair deal price. If you get it, good for you. If not, move on.