I just thought this was funny. My girlfriend is sick of hearing me talk about brakes and all of the data I've been trying to collect before and after the 13" Rotora install. She seems to think I'm not normal and I admitted that I'm far from normal.

However, twice now in the week that I've had them, I've had random people in other brands of cars comment on my brakes while sitting at a redlight. And this is with stock rims which usually don't show them off as well as most aftermarket rims.

So I was wondering if anyone else gets the random comments about the BBKs?

 

Just a quick question. Why did you spend ~1k on brakes for a stock TL?

 

A stock TL is more than capable of fading the stock brakes. My stock rotors were blue and cracked. On top of that the modulation is 200% better and I don't have to worry about warping ever again which mine did in the first month.

Even the 12.2" Brembos are the bare minimum for a 3,500lb car that's taken to the track. The 12.2" brakes should've been the standard AT brakes with a 13" option for manual and Type-S models.

Then think about the fact most "modded" TLs might make 10% more power so the mod factor is probably the smallest factor in getting better brakes..... Unless of course you have one of the new turbo kits with more than double the factor hp.

Or I guess I could've just said the factory brakes are inadequate under track conditions lol.

 

pics matt?

 

People dont notice my factory until they take a second glance.

 

if i had rotora everyone would notice it but i believe the stock brembo isnt as flashy, bearly anyone know that the tl came with brembo front.

 

I forgot to mention the sticky tires also increase the demands on the brakes in both power and heat rejection.

I'll have pics soon. I only had couple dry days since they were installed but they were overcast. Now its in the bodyshop getting new tires and an alignment for free since they tried to kill me again.

 

I don't think he had a stock TL, look at his signature and you'll see. He has stock wheels though.

 

its called a ~sleeper~ No one knows whats under the hood

Make sure those people at the lights dont follow you home and make the car theirs!

 

Not much performance but I do see stuff used for the twisties. Yes the base bbk is barely noticeable but depending on who you talk to they will notice. Usually when I get into some in depth talking with a few people at meets people start to notice stuff about other cars...If your just a normal walk around and look type person you probably wouldn't notice unless I had some different colored calipers on there.

 

You can tell I don't race anymore. All the years of being on the internet on various forums I usually had the GN listed as having exhaust and K&N filter but otherwise stock. It worked well especially on the home street racing forum. But now I'll probably never have another money race . It's still hard to tell the truth when random people ask me in person. I naturally want to say stock with exhaust especially if they're in something fast. Back in the old days people would spot small give aways like the rear axle girdle or the billet rear aluminum control arms I painted black to hide them. Now people are more clueless to the older cars but no one wants to put money up.

The TL is usually stock under the hood but it has in the past produced an extra 50hp somehow lol.

 

It doesn't help that they put "Acura" on the Brembo calipers. It seems like every other manufacturer left the Brembo name on them.

 

Mine is one of the most heavily modded for the twisties and I guarantee has the most R&D in which parts work the best. The brakes are a natural mod for this car especially since I was fading the stock brakes.

An exhaust and CAI might give you 10hp if you're lucky but lets say you gained 25hp, it would still make very little difference in demand on the brakes. The need for a brake upgrade is determined by how bad the stockers are and they type of driving/racing you do.

If I did just one hard stop at a time I would've left the stock 5at brakes on the car. In many tests the 5at brakes outstopped the Brembos by a few feet for a single stop and they would probably outstop the Rotoras. But I like the feel of the Rotoras and I need the fade resistance.

 

most people dont notice my stock brembos

 

I have stock brembos too - just curious but how come our cars don't come with rear brembos too? Is it because the car is fwd?

 

Most of your braking is done in the front the rear is more of a support brake to balance it out. You technically do not need a bbk in the back. If you do you need to pair it up or you will throw off the brake bias between the front and back.

 

After shooting front and rear brake temps, you definately need a rear kit if you plan on going to the track and running it hard. I had them to 500 degrees very easily and I was no where near pushing them like I do at the track.

The large front kit lowered rear temps very slightly showing that there is a small front bias change but I can see the rears giving up pretty quickly at the track. You just don't notice when they start to fade since most of the braking traction is up front. But rest assured with the rears fading and the fronts still good, the balance is thrown off and braking distances are increased.

I plan on getting the Rotora rear kit at least by next year's tax return, hopefully sooner.

 

the reason you dont generally need big brakes in the back is the tendancy for the rear of the car to break loose and spin out
There is so much weight on the fronts and so little on the rear, its like a pickup truck!

you put the better tires on the rear too, if they lose traction first (thinking rain), the car is coming around

 

I would also like to point out as Jason did in another thread, these are SOLID disks, the same thing I run on my bicycle. They are 11.2", not too bad for the rear of a FWD car but they have less than half the mass of a normal disk. I would take a 10" vented disk any day over the stock rears.

So yes, fronts are much more needed and you can probably get away with the stock rears for aggressive street driving and light track driving. But judging by how easily I can surpass 500 degrees, I doubt they're track ready. Of course the temps usually rise quickly then stabilize abruptly but I don't think that's going to be the case here. There's just half the cooling surface and half the mass of a normal disk. I think temps would just climb and climb with sustained hard usage.

 

install a brake bias adjustment valve- and you can do most anything you want
Race cars have them in drivers reach, need more front or less,,,just turn the dial left or right

 

what pads are you running? tried?

 

so if you put a rotora rear bbk on with front stock brembos, it'll just throw everything off?

 

That's true but I would rather reduce rear brake power via a prop valve than by limiting disk size and heat rejection capacity. With ABS it's not a problem with the rear coming around but I do agree even with ABS the car will stop longer if it has too much bias front or rear.

 

It depends.

If you add about 10% more braking force via a larger rotor (a longer lever) you can just as easily reduce the piston size in the caliper the appropriate amount to retain the same braking power and f/r brake bias. This is what Stoptech does and I don't have a clear answer but I have heard Rotora does too. However I've noticed my rear brake temps have come down slightly. This could be due to the weather changes or it could be slightly more front bias (the front brakes doing more of the work).

The purpose of the BBK is not to reduce the pedal effort, it's to reduce brake fade and secondary to increase pedal feel and modulation.

 

I wish I could. But from what I've learned with the TL, it doesn't have a traditional prop valve. Apparently it's controlled by the computer and it's not mechanical. I've heard it runs nearly identical pressures front and rear under light stops and adds more front bias as you brake harder.

 

I've got a set of Rotora slotted stock size rotors on the way.

But the big change is an ultra aggressive track rear pad with a much higher friction coefficient. It's more for testing purposes and I'm sure it will increase rear brake temps if it increases rear bias but hopefully it will decrease overall stopping distance and bring the bias back rearward not that there's a big problem with it now. I just like experimenting and fine tuning things. It's perfectly fine as it sits with the stock original rear brakes and 13" Rotoras up front.

 

there are some performance cars with front and rear brembos from the factory - i.e. G35 coupe..

 

Honestly for my rears I am just gonna get an aggressive pad along with a slotted rotor. That should be enough for my weekend spirited drives with friends. If anything a 2 piston would be plenty which I am surprised they didn't use for the TL application. The caliper is ugly but not much you can do about that.

 

I agree. I recently had a event that I was really hard on my brakes. I had to do a serious fast stop from a high speed, and my brakes finally faded. When I came to a stop, and let the car idle with no brakes on, the back brakes were smoking while the fronts were okay. They got WAY to hot. The car needs better brakes. But rotors, pads and lines would help big time.

 

I think a slight rotor upgrade will do lots for the rear brake temps. The factory disks are a bit absorbant.

 

The fade resistance comes from the rotor type and size.

The number of pistons help with even pad application and modulation. But more pistons won't help with reducing fade or one stop-stopping distances in an ABS equipped car.

Here's an old one where people first discovered the AT stops quicker. https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ght=brembo+5at

 

I can see where that's coming from. The material in the rotor is important along with vein design which is also a big thing for cooling on the rear rotor just like you mention...IMO and experiences a slotted/drilled rotor is too much for a street application and if you ever go that route don't buy cheap. But back to rotor design if you have a big rotor it can dissipate/separate heat a lot nicer but the stock rear rotor is just a solid piece last time I looked...Not much heat reduction going on there. It likes to absorb the heat and doesn't have enough time to cut down. If you swapped that stock rotor for a slotted rotor I would say there would be a change it temps that would be noticeable. I understand the size of rotor matters but for some people just adding another bbk to the back isn't feasible and some people just don't see the need (that's probably only me) unless I decide to throw this car on a track 24/7 I would consider that along with a modified prop valve with a brake bias controller but I have other plans for a track setup on another vehicle.

The even pad application is nice with the multi piston caliper setups also it balances out the rear when going into hard cornering from my sense of feel...But then RWD dynamics are slightly different. I am comparing to my friends gs300 (98-2005 [2004]) which is a pretty similar platform other than the rwd. I think the Lexus system (his is stock for now) stops a bit better than the TL system but I will do a test between his vs my car and I will collect some data whenever we get the spare time.

I also agree with an ABS car some multi piston setups aren't that great since in the end when your using ABS all the control is in the ABS module. At that time computers are doing the work not yourself compared to the conventional non ABS setup which is what I prefer because I love the modulation and your control...ABS is nice for those slightly slippery days when you feel a bit lazy and not paying attention or have that one dumbass that decides to cut your ass off and slam on the brakes.

Last point out of this that is not much related. Upgrading to a BBK helps you stop faster not the person behind you. That's what has always irritated me. I always see people say yes my car stops on a dime but they do not realize there is also that one person behind you that will always be close or just straight up run into you on the street. Just something to keep an eye on you will be amazed at some peoples braking distances which makes you wonder how some people even get there damn license.

 

Its funny, I've never looked into solid rotors because I didn't realize cars used them.

Many websites state solid rotors shouldn't be used on anything weighing more than 2,500lbs. Maybe that's for front use, I don't know. I've found that BMW up to the late '90s on the non performance models used solid rears and some older foreign trucks did too.

The main thing is you have half the surface area to radiate heat and about half the mass of a vented rotor. IMO it would seem like just going to a vented rotor of the same diameter would increase fade resistance much more than a 13" solid rotor.

What I initially thought was I had no need to upgrade the rears, 11.2" is large enough for a FWD car. And I think this would be true if they were vented. But being that they're solid I think the rears need to be upgraded nearly as badly as the fronts.... at least according to the temps I've shot.

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree. Even with my Progress RSB set on "track" firmness, the bias is still slightly towards understeer, rather than the oversteer situation you described. Of course the target is to achieve as much neutral bias as possible with the RSB. It is built into the TL's chassis to be that way (understeer).

Secondly, every tire mfr. that I know of recommends putting the least worn tires on the drive axle. In this case, the front.

To OP, my Type-S wheels matched to the CBP body draws mucho attention. I can imagine what the BBK's would draw. I think I'll increase my witholding Fed taxes this year to save up for a set next year

'07 TYPE-S CBP
Fujita F5
Progress RSB
P2R throttle body spacer
Braille battery
V1 on the lookout

 

We're talking brake bias.. if you don't believe 01tl4tl's explanation, then you should talk to Blackura.