How much faster is the TL Type S Vs the Regula TL?
#41
Cars aren't exactly the same
Originally Posted by RedHOT411
...
04 - 06 TL MT = 5.9
04 - 06 TL MT w. A Spec Kit = 5.7
How is that possible? If anything wouldn't the kit add more weight?
04 - 06 TL MT = 5.9
04 - 06 TL MT w. A Spec Kit = 5.7
How is that possible? If anything wouldn't the kit add more weight?
Remember that we are talking about regular cars pulled off the assembly line, not cars with balanced and blueprinted engines and hand-built transmissions. Some cars will run a bit faster than others; some cars have been broken in and others not when tested. Car magazines make multiple runs for average or best time in any given car-- that's why there are often differences in what each magazine reports, too.
Weather conditions, driver inputs, etc. will all contribute to acceleration differences in the same car, let alone different cars.
#42
Originally Posted by bigmoetl1
I am not sure the 6speed tl and the type s tl ran 0-60 in 5.7 seconds in road and track but I think the type-s rant the quarter in 14.2 versus the 6 speed tl at 14.5 so I say get a tl type s and add some mods to it should be pretty quick. A auto tl type-s does it in 5.9 0-60.
You meant to say that a base manual TL ran 14.2 in Motor Trend, same as the Type-S.
Thanks.
#43
I WANT AN M45!!!!!sniffle sniffle...im too poor ....i personally think it looks better than the 3 series, the is', the tl-s....but i think base model starts at like 48k or something....oh well....ill stick to my 05TL, and wait for the next body tl to come out i guess....but to answer the question....The tl-s is quite a bit faster than a stock 04/06 TL hands down, the 04/06 TL will spank an s60r....or atleast i did...all day all night, swap drivers...TL still won...., never drove the is or bmw...i only see chicks driving is350's/250's...as for bmw...im not a big fan for the european market....sorry...
#44
My opinion is as such, no matter what people say, the TL-S with msrp of 38k is definitely the best sport sedan car for the money and the Lexus ES350 (loaded at $44k with glass roof and the works) is the best midsize sedan (or whatever they call it) for the money hands down.
the Lexus IS350 and BMW 335i are both overpriced (44k and 50k respectively) for a corolla sized car IMO
Lexus makes the BEST quality cars I've ever driven and dealt with, this coming from someone that currently owns two Lexus', two Mercedes, a 94 camry (with 210k+ miles) and the Acura TL-S....next up will hopefully be a BMW, hopefully an X5...only thing left in the waters that is really worth testing out besides a Porsche
the Lexus IS350 and BMW 335i are both overpriced (44k and 50k respectively) for a corolla sized car IMO
Lexus makes the BEST quality cars I've ever driven and dealt with, this coming from someone that currently owns two Lexus', two Mercedes, a 94 camry (with 210k+ miles) and the Acura TL-S....next up will hopefully be a BMW, hopefully an X5...only thing left in the waters that is really worth testing out besides a Porsche
#45
Originally Posted by Snookynibbles
Toyota's got a 6 speed tranny w. RWD in its favor. Having that extra gear makes a big difference when compared against a 5 speed TL. The IS350 will remain up in its power band more frequently than the TL.
Do you mean having an extra gear means the car can stay in each gear at higher RPMs before the you need to upshift to avoid red-lining in that gear?
In other words, if there are fewer gears, you'd need to 'jump' to the higher one sooner and then you'd be in too-high a gear at low RPMs?
I need an icon for Ignorant of Manual Transmission operation, maybe a GIF of the AT's gearshift but yellow like a smiley.
#46
Originally Posted by brettallica
Today, 9:26 AM
Snookynibbles
Registered User
Post #32
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 1
Did you join just to post that... or do you just have some huge boner for Toyota/Lexus? Geez, man.
I think we all realize that a TL is a mid $30K sporty four-door sedan, and NOT a sports car. It will never truly compete with the likes of anything with legit power going to the rear wheels.
Snookynibbles
Registered User
Post #32
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 1
Did you join just to post that... or do you just have some huge boner for Toyota/Lexus? Geez, man.
I think we all realize that a TL is a mid $30K sporty four-door sedan, and NOT a sports car. It will never truly compete with the likes of anything with legit power going to the rear wheels.
Nope, I'm not a 'plant' from Toyota. But I believe in praising the good where you find it, & Toyota's done a fine job with their IS. However, I own three Honda products (CR-V, Accord V6, and a TL) & have designs on none other. Besides, who else other than a Honda nut would bother to gather the info that I did?
I will take issue with your comment about the FWD vs RWD argument. Unquestionably, FWD lags in standing starts due to adverse weight transfer that lifts the front end. Know that once rolling at highway speeds however, the FWD-RWD acceleration delta shrinks!
#47
Originally Posted by 3rdGenHybrid
I WANT AN M45!!!!!sniffle sniffle...im too poor ....i personally think it looks better than the 3 series, the is', the tl-s....but i think base model starts at like 48k or something....oh well....ill stick to my 05TL, and wait for the next body tl to come out i guess....but to answer the question....The tl-s is quite a bit faster than a stock 04/06 TL hands down, the 04/06 TL will spank an s60r....or atleast i did...all day all night, swap drivers...TL still won...., never drove the is or bmw...i only see chicks driving is350's/250's...as for bmw...im not a big fan for the european market....sorry...
#48
Originally Posted by evantec
Just wondering...
Do you mean having an extra gear means the car can stay in each gear at higher RPMs before the you need to upshift to avoid red-lining in that gear?
In other words, if there are fewer gears, you'd need to 'jump' to the higher one sooner and then you'd be in too-high a gear at low RPMs?
I need an icon for Ignorant of Manual Transmission operation, maybe a GIF of the AT's gearshift but yellow like a smiley.
Do you mean having an extra gear means the car can stay in each gear at higher RPMs before the you need to upshift to avoid red-lining in that gear?
In other words, if there are fewer gears, you'd need to 'jump' to the higher one sooner and then you'd be in too-high a gear at low RPMs?
I need an icon for Ignorant of Manual Transmission operation, maybe a GIF of the AT's gearshift but yellow like a smiley.
This phenomenon would seem to be more pronounced with smaller displacement, lower torque producing engines.
Conversely, a well deployed continuously variable ration transmission might seem to be the ideal.
I've noticed how Honda did wonders between their Gen 6 Accord V6 (200 hp w. 4 speed AT), and their Gen 7 V6 (w. 240-244 hp & 5 speed AT). The 0-60 specs are worlds apart. My 2000 V6 when stock was good for ~ 7.7 seconds. The new Accords run in the mid to low 6's. IMO, part of that difference beyond the added hp is the fact that my car is down one gear ratio. I can accelerate hard in 2nd up to 5,800 rpm, but then the upshift drops me down to the low 4,000 range, not too far above VTEC engagement...kinda disappointing.
#49
Originally Posted by blazinginder
My opinion is as such, no matter what people say, the TL-S with msrp of 38k is definitely the best sport sedan car for the money and the Lexus ES350 (loaded at $44k with glass roof and the works) is the best midsize sedan (or whatever they call it) for the money hands down.
the Lexus IS350 and BMW 335i are both overpriced (44k and 50k respectively) for a corolla sized car IMO
Lexus makes the BEST quality cars I've ever driven and dealt with, this coming from someone that currently owns two Lexus', two Mercedes, a 94 camry (with 210k+ miles) and the Acura TL-S....next up will hopefully be a BMW, hopefully an X5...only thing left in the waters that is really worth testing out besides a Porsche
the Lexus IS350 and BMW 335i are both overpriced (44k and 50k respectively) for a corolla sized car IMO
Lexus makes the BEST quality cars I've ever driven and dealt with, this coming from someone that currently owns two Lexus', two Mercedes, a 94 camry (with 210k+ miles) and the Acura TL-S....next up will hopefully be a BMW, hopefully an X5...only thing left in the waters that is really worth testing out besides a Porsche
Are you sure that a LOADED ES 350 (or should I say Camry) is $44,000. The only Lexus cars I like are the IS350, LS 460. and soon to come LS 460 Hybrid, if I wanted a big car.
I have owned 3 Toyota's and loved them. But I think The Acura TL-S is as good in quality as an ES 350. And I prefer the TL-S over the Camry/Lexus. IMO.
I really like the new 07 X5 (SWEET) If I won a Lotto a Porsche 911, Audi RS4, Ferrari F430 spider would be the first 3 cars I would buy. Thats just me.
#50
Originally Posted by brettallica
Today, 9:26 AM
Snookynibbles
Registered User
Post #32
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 1
Did you join just to post that... or do you just have some huge boner for Toyota/Lexus? Geez, man.
I think we all realize that a TL is a mid $30K sporty four-door sedan, and NOT a sports car. It will never truly compete with the likes of anything with legit power going to the rear wheels.
Snookynibbles
Registered User
Post #32
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 52
Posts: 1
Did you join just to post that... or do you just have some huge boner for Toyota/Lexus? Geez, man.
I think we all realize that a TL is a mid $30K sporty four-door sedan, and NOT a sports car. It will never truly compete with the likes of anything with legit power going to the rear wheels.
#51
Please permit me one more here... As a newbie to this board I sure don't want to come off as a 'hit n run' artist. I really am a Honda/Acura nut and think I could almost sell Acuras for a living…that sold on the brand. My heart is melded with The 'Power of Dreams'.
This got buried in the middle of my first post. RE acceleration differences between the TL & the TL Type S, a quick & simple solution to getting near Type S acceleration from a base TL seems to be had in doing the induction & exhaust mods…adding AEM's cold air (~ $250), and COMPTECH's exhaust ($1,050). Both add another combined 28 flywheel hp (roughly) as indicated by bother manufacturer's posted dynos. Even so & as mentioned earlier by another, the 3.5L motor will produce slightly more torque than the 3.2.
This got buried in the middle of my first post. RE acceleration differences between the TL & the TL Type S, a quick & simple solution to getting near Type S acceleration from a base TL seems to be had in doing the induction & exhaust mods…adding AEM's cold air (~ $250), and COMPTECH's exhaust ($1,050). Both add another combined 28 flywheel hp (roughly) as indicated by bother manufacturer's posted dynos. Even so & as mentioned earlier by another, the 3.5L motor will produce slightly more torque than the 3.2.
#52
Originally Posted by Snookynibbles
Please permit me one more here... As a newbie to this board I sure don't want to come off as a 'hit n run' artist. I really am a Honda/Acura nut and think I could almost sell Acuras for a living…that sold on the brand. My heart is melded with The 'Power of Dreams'.
This got buried in the middle of my first post. RE acceleration differences between the TL & the TL Type S, a quick & simple solution to getting near Type S acceleration from a base TL seems to be had in doing the induction & exhaust mods…adding AEM's cold air (~ $250), and COMPTECH's exhaust ($1,050). Both add another combined 28 flywheel hp (roughly) as indicated by bother manufacturer's posted dynos. Even so & as mentioned earlier by another, the 3.5L motor will produce slightly more torque than the 3.2.
This got buried in the middle of my first post. RE acceleration differences between the TL & the TL Type S, a quick & simple solution to getting near Type S acceleration from a base TL seems to be had in doing the induction & exhaust mods…adding AEM's cold air (~ $250), and COMPTECH's exhaust ($1,050). Both add another combined 28 flywheel hp (roughly) as indicated by bother manufacturer's posted dynos. Even so & as mentioned earlier by another, the 3.5L motor will produce slightly more torque than the 3.2.
#53
Originally Posted by evantec
Just wondering...
Do you mean having an extra gear means the car can stay in each gear at higher RPMs before the you need to upshift to avoid red-lining in that gear?
In other words, if there are fewer gears, you'd need to 'jump' to the higher one sooner and then you'd be in too-high a gear at low RPMs?
I need an icon for Ignorant of Manual Transmission operation, maybe a GIF of the AT's gearshift but yellow like a smiley.
Do you mean having an extra gear means the car can stay in each gear at higher RPMs before the you need to upshift to avoid red-lining in that gear?
In other words, if there are fewer gears, you'd need to 'jump' to the higher one sooner and then you'd be in too-high a gear at low RPMs?
I need an icon for Ignorant of Manual Transmission operation, maybe a GIF of the AT's gearshift but yellow like a smiley.
You've got that almost completely backwards
There are few cars with both 5 and 6 speed transmissions available, but if you look at one of them, you'll often see that the top speeds are almost identical. So, let that sink in for a second.. then realize that if the top speeds are the same, the transmission with an extra 'gear' must have to shift one more time to get to the same point. Sounds like a waste huh? maybe we should only have 2-speed transmissions instead.
Consider car A with a 5-speed and car B with a 6-speed, the only differences between the two cars being the transmissions. Also, assume very similar top speeds.
Car A and B drag race away from a starting line.
Car B will shift into second gear before Car A.
Car B will probably end up shifting into 5th gear around the time Car A shifts to 4th.
Car B will hit it's top speed in 6th gear much sooner than Car A.
So effectively, Car B is much faster than Car A, even though they have the same engines. Car B can effectively put more horsepower and torque to the ground. Though at the cost of fuel economy.
#54
Godfather of Chrome
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 1
From: Santa Cruz, and yes I'm a hippie with retro 1970s sideburns and a chrome fetish
Originally Posted by Snookynibbles
Hey pal, thanks for the howdy...some kind of welcome wagon you are.
Nope, I'm not a 'plant' from Toyota. But I believe in praising the good where you find it, & Toyota's done a fine job with their IS. However, I own three Honda products (CR-V, Accord V6, and a TL) & have designs on none other. Besides, who else other than a Honda nut would bother to gather the info that I did?
I will take issue with your comment about the FWD vs RWD argument. Unquestionably, FWD lags in standing starts due to adverse weight transfer that lifts the front end. Know that once rolling at highway speeds however, the FWD-RWD acceleration delta shrinks!
Nope, I'm not a 'plant' from Toyota. But I believe in praising the good where you find it, & Toyota's done a fine job with their IS. However, I own three Honda products (CR-V, Accord V6, and a TL) & have designs on none other. Besides, who else other than a Honda nut would bother to gather the info that I did?
I will take issue with your comment about the FWD vs RWD argument. Unquestionably, FWD lags in standing starts due to adverse weight transfer that lifts the front end. Know that once rolling at highway speeds however, the FWD-RWD acceleration delta shrinks!
...and by no means am I an expert on automobile performance, but I do know basics. My point was that -- as a general rule -- FWD cars aren't going to give you the performance of a RWD. If they did, racecars would be FWD. I mean, that's putting it in pretty lame terms, but for all intent and purposes, it really could be boiled down to being that simple.
Pretty much the only thing the IS350 has in common with the TL is that its starting MSRP is in the same general ballpark as a maxed-out base version TL. Aside from that, they're birds of a different feather.
#55
ehhh...
I am currently driving an 07' TL loaner from the dealer...while my 07' TL-S get's some quircks fixed. And even though I must say, I was surprised the TL made, the differences in both car's are night and day, from looks....to driving feel...to the interior. Makes me miss my S' even more
#56
Originally Posted by RedHOT411
...
04 - 06 TL MT = 5.9
04 - 06 TL MT w. A Spec Kit = 5.7
How is that possible? If anything wouldn't the kit add more weight?
04 - 06 TL MT = 5.9
04 - 06 TL MT w. A Spec Kit = 5.7
How is that possible? If anything wouldn't the kit add more weight?
#57
Originally Posted by CoreyG
The 04-06 A Spec comes with better rubber first off. Second, the stiffer suspension allows for a better launch. My 04 MT will overpower my new Michelin Pilot Sport's all day long in 1st, and that rubber is better than the crappy Turanzas. The Yokohama summer rubber (AVS-ES 100) that came with the A Spec offers even better grip. That alone will be the deciding factor.
#58
if purely by look
since i drive a TL i can tell whether another TL has A-spec, or if it is 07 base or 07 Type S
BUT...none of my friends could tell the difference. the only difference they can tell is probably the rear end, the tail lights and the type S badge and MAYBE the rear lip spoiler. just like how i cant really tell a difference between a c55 amg and a c230 other than the badge and the exhaust.
i mean, unless you compare them side by side, but im talking about seeing them as we drive around.
i guess what im trying to say is, for us we feel it's a big difference and it may worth the upgrade, but for those who's not familiar with TL or with new models in general, waiting for a total redesign probably makes more sense than purchasing a mid year upgrade
BUT...none of my friends could tell the difference. the only difference they can tell is probably the rear end, the tail lights and the type S badge and MAYBE the rear lip spoiler. just like how i cant really tell a difference between a c55 amg and a c230 other than the badge and the exhaust.
i mean, unless you compare them side by side, but im talking about seeing them as we drive around.
i guess what im trying to say is, for us we feel it's a big difference and it may worth the upgrade, but for those who's not familiar with TL or with new models in general, waiting for a total redesign probably makes more sense than purchasing a mid year upgrade
#59
Originally Posted by Snookynibbles
Please permit me one more here... As a newbie to this board I sure don't want to come off as a 'hit n run' artist. I really am a Honda/Acura nut and think I could almost sell Acuras for a living…that sold on the brand. My heart is melded with The 'Power of Dreams'.
This got buried in the middle of my first post. RE acceleration differences between the TL & the TL Type S, a quick & simple solution to getting near Type S acceleration from a base TL seems to be had in doing the induction & exhaust mods…adding AEM's cold air (~ $250), and COMPTECH's exhaust ($1,050). Both add another combined 28 flywheel hp (roughly) as indicated by bother manufacturer's posted dynos. Even so & as mentioned earlier by another, the 3.5L motor will produce slightly more torque than the 3.2.
This got buried in the middle of my first post. RE acceleration differences between the TL & the TL Type S, a quick & simple solution to getting near Type S acceleration from a base TL seems to be had in doing the induction & exhaust mods…adding AEM's cold air (~ $250), and COMPTECH's exhaust ($1,050). Both add another combined 28 flywheel hp (roughly) as indicated by bother manufacturer's posted dynos. Even so & as mentioned earlier by another, the 3.5L motor will produce slightly more torque than the 3.2.
#60
Originally Posted by brettallica
Glad to see you "came back" and responded further. I wasn't trying to be an unfriendly welcome to you. It just seemed weird that you came in here with all this "Lexus is great" propaganda, especially as your first post. If that wasn't your intention, then my mistake, and welcome to the boards.
...and by no means am I an expert on automobile performance, but I do know basics. My point was that -- as a general rule -- FWD cars aren't going to give you the performance of a RWD. If they did, racecars would be FWD. I mean, that's putting it in pretty lame terms, but for all intent and purposes, it really could be boiled down to being that simple.
Pretty much the only thing the IS350 has in common with the TL is that its starting MSRP is in the same general ballpark as a maxed-out base version TL. Aside from that, they're birds of a different feather.
...and by no means am I an expert on automobile performance, but I do know basics. My point was that -- as a general rule -- FWD cars aren't going to give you the performance of a RWD. If they did, racecars would be FWD. I mean, that's putting it in pretty lame terms, but for all intent and purposes, it really could be boiled down to being that simple.
Pretty much the only thing the IS350 has in common with the TL is that its starting MSRP is in the same general ballpark as a maxed-out base version TL. Aside from that, they're birds of a different feather.
Yes indeed, the IS series is quite a different 'bird'...too small for my taste, and more than that, it's simply not an ACURA. You know, one of those ipso facto propositions...something I can't just quite put into words.
#61
Godfather of Chrome
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 1
From: Santa Cruz, and yes I'm a hippie with retro 1970s sideburns and a chrome fetish
Originally Posted by Snookynibbles
I must admit to how amazing this site really is...tons of exchange coming from so many stoked Acura enthusiasts! And having said that, I'm sure anything that I could possibly post has likely already been covered before. Even so, I must praise Honda for singularly approaching their game the way no other auto manufacturer has. They may not be #1 as measured by every conceivable metric important to 'Joe' car buyer, but they sure put out a product that collectively excels IMO in more significant areas than any other. I'm thinking of aspects such as styling & aesthetic appeal, build quality, reliability engineering, exterior/interior fit 'n finish, ergonomics, handling, braking, power train & acceleration, fuel economy, engineering innovation, corporate citizenship & vision, and of course good 'ole dollar value! Anyway, I love my '06 TL...it's got to be the best capital purchase I've made in a long time!
Yes indeed, the IS series is quite a different 'bird'...too small for my taste, and more than that, it's simply not an ACURA. You know, one of those ipso facto propositions...something I can't just quite put into words.
Yes indeed, the IS series is quite a different 'bird'...too small for my taste, and more than that, it's simply not an ACURA. You know, one of those ipso facto propositions...something I can't just quite put into words.
#62
Originally Posted by evantec
Just wondering...
Do you mean having an extra gear means the car can stay in each gear at higher RPMs before the you need to upshift to avoid red-lining in that gear?
In other words, if there are fewer gears, you'd need to 'jump' to the higher one sooner and then you'd be in too-high a gear at low RPMs?
Do you mean having an extra gear means the car can stay in each gear at higher RPMs before the you need to upshift to avoid red-lining in that gear?
In other words, if there are fewer gears, you'd need to 'jump' to the higher one sooner and then you'd be in too-high a gear at low RPMs?
Wide gear spacing means less shifting, and over something like a quarter mile if might mean a 1/10th or two by not having to shift again before the finish line. You'll find that car makers often design their gear ratios such that they can hit 60mph in second. This is to get a better 0-60 time despite the negative effect it might have on overal acceleration.
Lots of gears and narrow gear spacing means that you can keep car with a small powerband (high revving, low displacements) in the power all the time. Lots of gears help to a point, but usually a 6th gear means that they just have a dedicated overdrive gear for fuel economy. Its also worth noting that road racing and drag racing will have different demands on your gear box.
As someone mentioned, there are lots of bad gearbox designs out there. Shifting and landing in the next gear out of v-tec is a big sin. The 0-60 gearing issue is another big no-no. Also alot of boxes are designed more around fuel economy than performance. That's more noticable with a 5 spd box than a 6 spd as the highest gear is almost always overdriven. However a true performance gear box would probably be annoying for most people to drive on the street.
#63
OK I'll be flamed here but really, on a everyday driving both base TL and Type -S will perform "almost" ( key word here ) the same.....that's why if you really want to notice the difference in vehicles, upgrade to a Porsche or a real spors car, sorry guys but I love my TL and drive it like I stole it but I also drove a Type -S and on equal roads both perfomed "almost" the same.....
I told my wife I want a Summer car and after test driving a Carrera, driving any TL feels like I'm driving my Rubicon....
I told my wife I want a Summer car and after test driving a Carrera, driving any TL feels like I'm driving my Rubicon....
#64
HEK, actually, I have to say that I agree with you.
"Almost the same" means just that. And let's face it... the TL and TL-S are almost the exact same car. While a 28HP is a nice increase, it's not insanely higher than the base 258. The cars have almost the same everything (in terms of performance upgrades), except for the transmission, engine and suspension - all of which are slight upgrades.
Yes, there is a noticable difference between the two cars. But like you said - it's still a TL.
The things I noticed right away was that the car felt more stable when cornering (but also more bumpy) and that the gearing was more agressive.
I could definitely imagine a TL with A-Spec with some mods would be similar.
Is the Type S worth the extra $2000? For me, that was an easy answer. Slightly better stock performance, and a car that's a bit more rare (as it's only been out for a few weeks rather than 3 years).
Oh - and the faux quad exaust just sealed the deal.
"Almost the same" means just that. And let's face it... the TL and TL-S are almost the exact same car. While a 28HP is a nice increase, it's not insanely higher than the base 258. The cars have almost the same everything (in terms of performance upgrades), except for the transmission, engine and suspension - all of which are slight upgrades.
Yes, there is a noticable difference between the two cars. But like you said - it's still a TL.
The things I noticed right away was that the car felt more stable when cornering (but also more bumpy) and that the gearing was more agressive.
I could definitely imagine a TL with A-Spec with some mods would be similar.
Is the Type S worth the extra $2000? For me, that was an easy answer. Slightly better stock performance, and a car that's a bit more rare (as it's only been out for a few weeks rather than 3 years).
Oh - and the faux quad exaust just sealed the deal.
#65
Originally Posted by Pika817
HEK, actually, I have to say that I agree with you.
"Almost the same" means just that. And let's face it... the TL and TL-S are almost the exact same car. While a 28HP is a nice increase, it's not insanely higher than the base 258. The cars have almost the same everything (in terms of performance upgrades), except for the transmission, engine and suspension - all of which are slight upgrades.
Yes, there is a noticable difference between the two cars. But like you said - it's still a TL.
The things I noticed right away was that the car felt more stable when cornering (but also more bumpy) and that the gearing was more agressive.
I could definitely imagine a TL with A-Spec with some mods would be similar.
Is the Type S worth the extra $2000? For me, that was an easy answer. Slightly better stock performance, and a car that's a bit more rare (as it's only been out for a few weeks rather than 3 years).
Oh - and the faux quad exaust just sealed the deal.
"Almost the same" means just that. And let's face it... the TL and TL-S are almost the exact same car. While a 28HP is a nice increase, it's not insanely higher than the base 258. The cars have almost the same everything (in terms of performance upgrades), except for the transmission, engine and suspension - all of which are slight upgrades.
Yes, there is a noticable difference between the two cars. But like you said - it's still a TL.
The things I noticed right away was that the car felt more stable when cornering (but also more bumpy) and that the gearing was more agressive.
I could definitely imagine a TL with A-Spec with some mods would be similar.
Is the Type S worth the extra $2000? For me, that was an easy answer. Slightly better stock performance, and a car that's a bit more rare (as it's only been out for a few weeks rather than 3 years).
Oh - and the faux quad exaust just sealed the deal.
#66
Hope you all enjoy a relaxing weekend...raining here in Riverside, CA...
RE the last two posts, I’d have to agree with both of you…to a point.
There are affordable mods to the base TL model that will essentially close the gap between the models:
• AEM CAI @ ~ 22 hp flywheel gain
• Performance exhaust ~ 8 hp gain
The base TL vs. TL Type S also differ by 23 lb-ft of torque at max. output. The above two products free-up another 19 lb-ft of torque from the base TL…closing the gap in that area too.
Here’s a link to COMPTECH USA’s dyno results (hp) for the Gen 3 TL w their cat back exhaust. Though COMPTECH’s gone, the data is useful re what’s possible.
http://www.comptechusa.com/store/med...atbackDyno.pdf
…and here’s AEM’s link showing the hp gains from their CAI
http://www.aempower.com/images/products/21513_hp.pdf
Note that the dyno data is represented as ‘wheel horsepower'…one has to factor by additional 13-15% in order to account for torque converter losses associated with AT models.
Somewhere on the Internet is more corroboration of AEM’s power gain assertion. Someone posted a dyno run sheet for his Gen 3 TL with the AEM CAI, and I recall he got the same results as claimed on AEM’s website.
So, gaining an honest 30hp & 19 lb-ft (torque) of additional normally aspirated performance can be realized with the base TL, and that with a relatively small additional investment (compared to the cost difference between the two models).
Looking at the various aftermarket performance upgrades available, to the base TL, you can add:
• CAI, increasing hp (but at cost of noise due to resonator box removal)
• Performance exhaust
• Rear sway bar (not sure if still available elsewhere given COMPTECH’s
now defunct)
• Koni coilovers to stiffen the ride
• Acura’s A-Spec kit (comprised of fairings, Brembo brakes, upgraded
wheels, upgraded steering wheel, etc.)
• Upgraded tires
• Cross-drilled rotors
Even so, & assuming we’re comparing a pre-07 TL to the new Type S, there are several new features engineered into the “inner bowels’ of the Type S machine:
Additionally, the Type S features:
• More torque from 3.5 vs. 3.2 displacement
• More robust & lighter RL transmission w. higher torque capacity
• External transmission cooler
• Improved MT clutch feel for smoother engagement!!
• Enhanced Sequential SportShift system…reprogrammed for both quicker
& smoother operation w. enhanced gear holding capabilities; can now
perform downshifts over much wider range than before & Type S now
affords downshifts into first gear
• ‘Rev matching’ (algorithm that ‘blips’ the throttle) during manual
downshifts smoothes gear changes
• Limited slip differential on AT models
• VTEC engagement @ 4,950 rpm vs. 4,700 of 3.2L engine
• VVI now uses enhanced, funnel-shaped intake ports, similar to what’s
found on racing engines
• Exhaust system w. 14% improved flow over base TL
• Stiffer, sport-tuned suspension
• A-Spec package
• Various external cosmetic enhancements
RE the last two posts, I’d have to agree with both of you…to a point.
There are affordable mods to the base TL model that will essentially close the gap between the models:
• AEM CAI @ ~ 22 hp flywheel gain
• Performance exhaust ~ 8 hp gain
The base TL vs. TL Type S also differ by 23 lb-ft of torque at max. output. The above two products free-up another 19 lb-ft of torque from the base TL…closing the gap in that area too.
Here’s a link to COMPTECH USA’s dyno results (hp) for the Gen 3 TL w their cat back exhaust. Though COMPTECH’s gone, the data is useful re what’s possible.
http://www.comptechusa.com/store/med...atbackDyno.pdf
…and here’s AEM’s link showing the hp gains from their CAI
http://www.aempower.com/images/products/21513_hp.pdf
Note that the dyno data is represented as ‘wheel horsepower'…one has to factor by additional 13-15% in order to account for torque converter losses associated with AT models.
Somewhere on the Internet is more corroboration of AEM’s power gain assertion. Someone posted a dyno run sheet for his Gen 3 TL with the AEM CAI, and I recall he got the same results as claimed on AEM’s website.
So, gaining an honest 30hp & 19 lb-ft (torque) of additional normally aspirated performance can be realized with the base TL, and that with a relatively small additional investment (compared to the cost difference between the two models).
Looking at the various aftermarket performance upgrades available, to the base TL, you can add:
• CAI, increasing hp (but at cost of noise due to resonator box removal)
• Performance exhaust
• Rear sway bar (not sure if still available elsewhere given COMPTECH’s
now defunct)
• Koni coilovers to stiffen the ride
• Acura’s A-Spec kit (comprised of fairings, Brembo brakes, upgraded
wheels, upgraded steering wheel, etc.)
• Upgraded tires
• Cross-drilled rotors
Even so, & assuming we’re comparing a pre-07 TL to the new Type S, there are several new features engineered into the “inner bowels’ of the Type S machine:
Additionally, the Type S features:
• More torque from 3.5 vs. 3.2 displacement
• More robust & lighter RL transmission w. higher torque capacity
• External transmission cooler
• Improved MT clutch feel for smoother engagement!!
• Enhanced Sequential SportShift system…reprogrammed for both quicker
& smoother operation w. enhanced gear holding capabilities; can now
perform downshifts over much wider range than before & Type S now
affords downshifts into first gear
• ‘Rev matching’ (algorithm that ‘blips’ the throttle) during manual
downshifts smoothes gear changes
• Limited slip differential on AT models
• VTEC engagement @ 4,950 rpm vs. 4,700 of 3.2L engine
• VVI now uses enhanced, funnel-shaped intake ports, similar to what’s
found on racing engines
• Exhaust system w. 14% improved flow over base TL
• Stiffer, sport-tuned suspension
• A-Spec package
• Various external cosmetic enhancements
#67
Originally Posted by juruki
Thats not right. The IS350 does 0-60 in 5.6. I dont think the regular TL can pull those numbers STOCK.
#68
Originally Posted by C P R
I am currently driving an 07' TL loaner from the dealer...while my 07' TL-S get's some quircks fixed. And even though I must say, I was surprised the TL made, the differences in both car's are night and day, from looks....to driving feel...to the interior. Makes me miss my S' even more
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