JonDeutsch

jyg tl 3,

I hear ya. I only experienced torque steer once in my 2 test drives of the 6MT (and never on the 5AT). I'm hearing that torque steer is significantly reduced with better tires (makes sense, since it's grip related).

I'm holing out hope that Chadr's Pirellis are the key to mitigating issues like these (not removing, but significantly reducing to a reasonable level).

Jon

neuronbob

Why not go with the AT, Jon? And I think the whole torque steer thing on this car is totally overrated.

tallrussian

Jon,

I've been driving an Accord for a long time, plus I've been spending a lot of time in a TSX recently (my Acura dealer gives 2004 TSXs as service loaners).

My impression is that 2004 TL is the best car overall. However, the TL steering feels a little "overboosted" to me, so it feels a bit like a Lexus (floaty, boaty luxury sleeper coach thing on weels, the steering feels a bit too dull and disconnected from the road), which is a fact that I don't particularly like. I think TSX provides better road feedback than the TL does. However, I got used to the TL steering pretty quickly, even though I still think it's dull.

Now if one could only combine the great road feel and the steering of the TSX with the power, quietness and the features of the TL, that would have been my dream car.

Overall, I still think that 2004 TL is the best car. I love mine!

cyjack

This thread started me wondering -- in theory, wouldn't better tires (i.e. tires with more grip) actually make the torque steer problem worse?

One of the recent reviews of the TL (can't remember which magazine) seemed to indicate that the LSD in the TL 6MT made the torque steer situation worse because it was improved power delivery to the wheel with more grip.

Wouldn't better tires then make this even worse?

I know this is getting into picking hairs territory, but I was interested in this more as a theoretical proposition than as an "another reason not to get a TL" proposition.

Also, tallrussian, having spent time in both, how would you say the TSX compares to the TL in terms of the driving experience (I know the TL is far superior in terms of the cabin and appointments)? I'm really interested to hear your perspective.

partagas

Oh hell, Jon, I was gonna shut up, but...
I've had 2 torque steerers among the many rwd sports sedans. They were a '90 Taurus SHO and a 96 Volvo T5. Both were a gas to drive but they torque steered far worse than the TL. After you've had a powerful fwd for a month or so, you just forget about it, just like with rwd you learn not to gas it coming out of a corner or you'll spin out. You'll learn that you brake earlier and then apply the gas in the turn to keep the front end up and level and apply more gas as you exit. You just learn it and forget it. With rwd, you have a different drill, always remembering that if you get too sloppy with your right foot it won't drive wheel steer, it will rear wheel steer. The TL is not a problem.

If you want to have some fun some time, drive a 4 year old Volvo V6 with the big turbo. OMG, get the wheels straight and hang on.

sonusfaber

Chadr

Don't mean to hijack the thread...but on Saturday I took a trip to Lancaster and I thought again of your offer!

I took the 330i and packed in 3 adults (including myself) and a baby seat in the back and a collapsible stroller in the trunk. I must say there was enough space for everyone and we were quite comfortable!

Sounds like the new tires made a difference on your TL...maybe the next time I'm there I'll take up on your offer just to see how the TL handles with better rubber! As for the 330i, no regrets at all...it's such a great handling car!

lakeman

cyjack, IMHO the whole problem of torque steer and LSD "action" often stems from loss of traction of the inside wheel in a "power on" condition in a corner. More grip should allow higher levels of performance before the problem occurs. I don't think - with 270 HP available - any tires can prevent some occurance of TS or LSD "bite", however, better grip should mitagate this condition - not make it worse.

Also, better grip should help the understeer issue as well. Several members with new (better) rubber have indicated overall improved performance when they changed their tires.

svtmike

90 SHO was one of my previous cars too, and I've been driving quick front-drivers since '86. I agree that torque steer, as long as it's not so strong that you physically can't counter it, is just a characteristic that you learn to work with.

My thoughts on the Integra vs. TL, will-I-like-the-handling thing, is that there's no disguising the weight of the TL. It will feel heavier than the Integra. Better tires than the Turanzas will help with grip, but they won't hide the weight. Springs will make it stiffer, but they won't hide the weight either. There's simply more momentum to change when cornering hard with a heavier car.

My previous car was an SVT Contour, a better handler than my old SHO, a better braker, and but not as fast. The Contour felt more nimble, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it could corner better. Just as the seat of the pants isn't a great accelerometer, it's not a great lateral-g measurement device either.

The TL is definitely the quickest and fastest of the three, the best riding (just fix the tire vibe, Acura), and has IMO very good handling for its size. It stays flat and takes corners quickly and without drama. It works for me, but if it's not what you want then go with a car that makes you happy.

Mike

jdriver

That is a good suggestion. I think what a lot of people are calling torque steer is really just the VSA doing its job. I was quite surprised at how much more responsive the steering felt with the traction control turned off. It really is noticible.

sonusfaber

Jon

I'll put my 2 cents in for what it's worth. I'm sure you know I was looking hard at the TL to replace my S2000, but in the end I couldn't get over the overboosted steering and to some extent the FWD dynamics.

I've had the 330i w/ Performance Package for a week now, and I really enjoy its driving dynamics. It's the closest I think I can get to the S2000's driving feel in a sedan. I got the bimmer for about $41K, which is roughly $8K more than the TL's sticker. Doesn't have navi, bluetooth or DVD-audio, but boy, the feel of driving this car alone is worth the extra dough and having to give up all of the TL's neat toys.

You may value all the TL's extras more, so it could be a different decision for you.

All I can say is, Partagas is correct...it's the TL or the 330i (esp w/ PP). If you haven't driven the bimmer, maybe you should do so just so that you have a benchmark to properly judge the TL's handling. I'll go ahead and try be as generous as Chadr....if you can make the trip to Yardley, you're welcome to test drive my car!

Don't get me wrong, I still think the TL is a great car and an excellent value. If Honda ever starts making a true sports sedan with RWD/AWD with a 6MT and steering feel like the bimmer or the S2000's, I'll definitely think about switching cars!

JonDeutsch

Thanks for the additional insight, guys!

Just to be clear... I do not expect the TL to be as nimble as the Integra or the 330i. This is about me getting over the C&D and similar reviews where they relegate the TL to being a sloppy, messy handler... and then my experience with the car after reading these reviews and noticing what they were saying for the first time.

Yes, if the tossable TSX had a 6 in it, I'd probably buy that over the TL. It's more of a natural upgrade to the Integra. But, it doesn't. It's slow. That and the TL being so much cooler from a tech perspective, leads me to the TL as my car of choice.

I just don't want to go into it blind and then regret spending so much on a car, just to have it handle like a sloppy mess.

Acura bills the 04TL as a Sports Sedan. That's what I want to buy. But it needs to live up to the marketing hype.

I will learn much more about this on Sunday!

Jon

PS - I really don't want to spend any more than $35k on a car. Frankly, my original bar was $30k, but the TL raised it. Also, to get the 330, I'd need to get the ix, probably raising the price even further.

cl1

Hi JonDeutsch,

I've read a few of your postings and I'm hoping I can help you out a bit. What prompted me to write is the logic and enthusiasm you have put forth regarding Acura products in general and the 04' TL in particular. These mirror mine to a tee. I absolutely love the TL and really wanted to like its performance - which is why I think I'm in a position to help. I will put it to you plainly and then hopefully give you some solid reasoning: if you wish to have a sporty, reliable, and impeccably-equipped daily driver - the 04' TL is your car. I don't think there is anything that can touch it for this purpose - almost regardless of price. If you have a passion for driving, and want to have fun in the twisties, the TL is really not up to the task.

If you go with a two-car format, say an S2000 for your fun and the TL for your daily driver, you have a great combo - and I am contemplating this combo myself. If you only desire to have one car year-round (and this is very appealing to me as well, as I've never owned two cars at once) and want the experience of a 'fun' car to drive, I agree with some of the other postings - you can not beat the 330i. Performance #'s aside, the 'feel' of the car, from a smile-generating perspective, is quite a bit ahead of the TL.

Bad news, I know - but let me tell you where I stand. I currently own an 01' CL-S and have been very, very satisfied with it. It's got great motor, great features, and has performed flawlessly (no tranny issues - not yet anyway). I'm partial to 4 doors and originally bought it because Acura convinced me that a TL-S would not be built. (Which is why I question the no type-S discussions as of late.)

I'm on the interstate a bitand the CL serves that purpose perfectly. Great passing power, comfortable, and sporty enough to take longer sweepers at an accelerated pace. The problem is, when trying to have fun in the twisties, the big motor gets in the way while the nose-heavy design limits tossability and handling. It just doesn't inspire me to just go for a drive - I'm always in it to get some where, if you know what I mean.

I thought this would change in the new 04'. The new frame, wider stance, etc. looked like it would perform better. And it does! I feel the new 04'TL out-performs my CL-S without penalizing me with poor ride quality. The problem is, it's still not a passionate driving experience. It is just a more and better version of what it used to be. The nose-heavy design and FWD just get in the way of the fun. I really, really wanted it to be different, but it isn't. It's actually got me angry because Acura could have taken it to a whole new level with AWD/RWD. It literally blows the competition away in EVERY regard save driving fun.

The TSX is a different story. This car does significantly out-handle the TL. It's a very fun car to toss around - enough, in fact, for me not to want a 330i. The problem - as you have already mentioned - is torque. It just doesn't have the guts! Damn it.

SO - I'm stuck with a TL that doesn't handle like I want, and a TSX that doesn't have the power. Don't let your desire for these cars get in the way of listening to your gut when you drive them.
They are both excellent, excellent cars for what they do. But again, you need to ask what it is you want them to do. And you DO need to drive them extensively. You need to feel that nose drag you around the corner and then compare it to something like a performance-package 330i. They are worlds apart.

I'm bummed too - but I do ope this helps!

cyjack

Great synopsis cl1. I'm on a similar track and I think you really nailed it with regard to what the TL and TSX are good and not so good at.

I'm inching closer and closer to going TSX. I think it is the best combination of practicality, value, and driving fun available in the U.S. market today.

I just find myself wishing it had 20 more horsepower or 150 - 200 less pounds (I just realized that the TSX actually provides more torque at lower RPMs than the S2000, only problem is that the TSX weighs 400 - 500 pounds more, but that's what four doors and roof'll do to you ;-).

But what I'm finally realizing is that, as you alluded to, it's going to be impossible for me to find everything I want in one car. I thought my Audi allroad was the best car in the world -- practical, ridiculous performance, a stunning interior -- but then came the bi-monthly visits to the service dept.

My V6 Accord Coupe is devastatingly competent and an incredible value, but it's a means of getting from point A to point B and little more.

What it comes down to is that I'm the problem! ;-) I want too much and I'm pretty sure I'll go crazy if I keep trying to chase down the "one perfect car."

So what I'm pretty sure I'm going to do is to go for the TSX now, and start saving for a hybrid-powertrain wagon/suv to buy as a second car in two to three years (hopefully the Acura RDX will deliver AWD hybrid power). The combination of the two would satisfy all of my and my wife's needs FULLY vs. any one car, which will invariably require trade-offs.

Boy, this has been a great thread! Much love to JonDeutsch for starting it. It's really helped to be able to "think out loud" and hear the thoughts of others on this point.

mdplaya

This is an alsome thread. I too am conflicted on whether to buy a TSX or a TL. I test drove both last weekend (5sp tl/ 6sp & 5sp tsx). The TL looks incredible, has great power and technology. Unfortunetly it feels "bloated". I have a Volvo C70 and I can hit the on ramp going onto 495 at 90mph...np. The car is perfect except that it is a ford. The TSX is very very nice. I love the car, EXECPT it does not have enought power. I love the TL's technology. In the end you sometimes can't be rational when buying a car. Cars in this price range are supposed to talk to you. If you want to analyze whether or not you should get a car...get a honda accord or better yet a camary . If you don't get that "feeling" with the TL...move on, another car will give it to you. I'm going to the dealship tomorrow and I'll decide between a TSX or a TL. I've done all the rational grownup stuff....now its time to just drive. Remember, if you hate the car you can always take it back. I figure if you have enough money to buy this car, a 2-3k hit in a few months wont be the end of the world.

sonusfaber

cl1,

I couldn't have said it better!! I really did wish that Acura/Honda made the TL RWD with great steering feel...I would definitely have one in my garage now if it were so!

JonDeutsch

mdplaya,

Make sure to tell us which one you chose, and why.

Jon

ADodge

We've had our 04 TL 5AT for about a month and love it. I had no expectations of the car because I had not followed the press blitz. In fact, just prior to getting it, I wasn't aware of the new TL! Note b4 you flame, I get most of the car magazines, just hadn't zeroed in on this car for some reason.

Leading up to this car, we had 3 Suburbans and 4 Grand Cherokees. To say we did our part to support the SUV movement is true. We also have a couple of Porsches though and have spent a good amount of time on the track in our 911. We were looking for a sporting sedan but I had no interest in a car with a BMW badge on it because I didn't want to stand out on the daily drive. (The Porsches are play cars). The TL in green is a very attractive car but also has a certain tendency to be invisible, which I like.

In my opinion, Honda, and thus Acura, occupies the top rung in automotive engineering worldwide. On reviewing the specs, yakking with the excellent dealer and test driving the car, the decision was easy. We got the spoiler and trunk mat, no nav, waiting for verizon to intro a BT phone. The car is solid, lots of power, handles very well yet smooth and supple. Easy choice.

JonDeutsch

cl1,

Thanks much for your very sober and accurate depiction of the choices at hand. Much appreciated.

Again, my hope is that new tires change the dynamic enough on the TL to make it a fun car to drive. Then, the compromises involved will be minimized. After all, the TSX is only 250lbs lighter.

Jon

jdriver

I was in exactly the same boat. I consider myself a car nut but the only Acura ever to raise an eyebrow with me was the NSX. I was looking at bimmers and the G35 as well as used S4's and M3's. An astute salesdude said "hey, Acura just came out with this new TL, check it out".

New, indeed. This was like the day or second day after the official launch. I had no clue what the TL was all about. One drive and a quick glance at the sticker compared to the bimmer was all it took. A week later I drove it off the lot.

1SICKLEX

That is the TL's best and worst attribute. Best as in it blends both sporty and some luxo. Worst as in not a true sports sedan, not a true luxo car.

FOr those that don't care about prestige and don't really drive their car spiritedly, the TL is a great choice.

DavidNJ

Driven at about 50%, the TL is the nicest car in its range. Don't confuse stiff with good. My very competitive late model stock car rides smoother than a G35. Pushed to the edge, there is torque steer. You can get it to plow. And some of the interior pieces don't hold up as well as you may like. But with strong resale, there is no car with this feature set for anything near the same cost.

Pushing_Tin

Have any of you checked out the new 2005 Subaru Legacy? It looks really nice, AWD and 250hp. It seems it will be around 30k, and as far as I can tell it doesn't have HID's or a Nav system. If you want to take a look go here.

http://www.need-desire.com/main.html

Pushing_Tin

Bueller, anyone?

JonDeutsch

Not liking the hood scoop. That kind of design detail likely won't appeal to the typical Acura shopper.

Z Factor

I own several different sports cars (my vice ), and recently leased the new 04 TL to replace my 2nd Gen TL as a daily driver. Obviously a TL sports sedan is not the ultimate in handling, but it holds it own very well. I know it is an improvement over the 2nd Gen, and compares favorably to the others in it's class, as I test drove most of them. Factor out my bias for Acura, and you are still left with my recommendation as to it's handling prowess.


Good luck with your decision, and I hope you become a TL owner like the rest of us.

Norse396

My 2 cents, if I wanted a car that kicks butt in turns and kicks butt in racing I would have bought a car suited for that. I don't think the TL was designed for that purpose so to expect it doesn't make much sense.

The A-Spec is closer to what people seem to be asking for regarding all out performance in a TL but the torque steer will be the same in the 6mt as it is in the others. Some call it scary, I called it an absolute blast, but then if I wanted a muscle car with stick I would have bought a new SVT Cobra (part of me wishes I did!).

The TL does for me what it was designed to do, provide muscle and decent cornering without giving up the luxury I expected from this class of car. To ask for all out cornering would sacrifice the intent, in my mind Acura was going for.

Now If I've been redundant forgive me, I didn't have time to read all the posts.

jdone

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pushing_Tin
Have any of you checked out the new 2005 Subaru Legacy? It looks really nice, AWD and 250hp. It seems it will be around 30k, and as far as I can tell it doesn't have HID's or a Nav system. If you want to take a look go here.

http://www.need-desire.com/main.html [/QUOTE
What Edmunds.com Says: With higher-quality materials and a more upscale design, the Legacy could become a thorn in the side of its more expensive European competitors.

What We Know: Debuting at the 2003 Frankfurt International Motor Show, the next-generation Legacy and Outback wagons features a cleaner, more sophisticated design.. The standard Legacy will continue to use the current 2.5-liter boxer engine while an all-new turbo model will debut with a detuned version of the STi motor offering roughly 280 horsepower. The Outback will use the 3.0-liter H6 engine, but variable valve timing will boost power output by 20-30 hp. In a continuing drive to move more upmarket, both the Legacy and Outback will get higher-quality interior materials and a more upscale design.

lakeman

JonDeutsch, You really need to get one of these bad boys. I am past break in now, and have adjusted the tire pressure (36 F, 30 R) and this car is like on rails and has much reduced understeer. (The HPT's are not great, but do stick like glue.) Yes, it has more power than can be put to the ground at times, but I revisted some old roads that I have tried other cars on, and this TL was awesome. A 6MT with good rubber is really fun. As an added bonus, my gas mileage on recent trips including my mountain adventure has been around 25 MPH (calculated).

JonDeutsch

Thanks for the encouragement, Lakeman!

Well, here's what's happened recently in my quest to buy a new car:

I test drove the TL last month along side the TSX. In that test drive, I found the TSX had more connective tissue with me (steering, cornering), and its accelleration was spirited and peppy... not fast. For the 1st time, I considered the 6MT TSX over the 6MT TL.

I started re-looking at the TSX as a logical upgrade to my Integra, vs. a "bigger" step up to the TL. Plus, saving $5k or so would be nice. The TL stuttered and torqued around curves, and I deemed it a sloppy handler with gobs of straight-line power.

So, I went back to test drive (different dealer, different roads) this evening, expecting to re-confirm my findings from last month. Well...and I had a totally different experience. Tonight, the 6MT TL handled quite well, and the TSX felt narrow (tight seat bolsters) and the steering wheel felt tiny.

Tonight, I had a lot more fun driving the TL than the TSX.

So, it's all quite confusing. BUT... as I'm typing this, I just realized what could be the issue: HPT vs. not. I never asked if tonight's TL was HPT.. or if last month's TL was not HPT.

I'm starting to wonder if this tire thang really transforms the 6MT from a big fat lady to a ballerina?

Jon

technogeek

JonDeutsch,

I can give you my opinion, which I think is pretty relevant.

Was driving a '91 Honda Prelude Si. I imagine the handling of that car to be somewhat similar to the Integra, maybe a little better. The handling of the Prelude was downright nimble and fun, with kind of a "precision" feel to it. From the first time I drove the car I felt I knew exactly what the car was doing, and felt VERY comfortable pushing it to it's limits. While the Prelude handled great, and was fast enough to get out of almost any spot, it had no where near the power of the TL. I never noticed any torque steer on the Prelude, and it did ride like on "rails." I came stock with Michelin MXV4 tires, and the same tires were replaced on it several times over the >130K miles the car had. The reliability of that car was superb, leaning me torwards Honda. If the air conditioner was as reliable as the rest of the car I would probably still be driving it.

When I test drove cars I drove the Lexus ES330 and the BMW 330i with the Performance package and 6MT.

The Lexus isn't even worth discussing. It might be the right car when I'm 60, but not now. Kind of a Luxury Buick.

The BMW 330i handled wonderfully. I loved the driving dynamics of the 330i. Until I went and test drove the TL I was certain it was what I was going to buy.

After seeing and driving the TL I decided overnight it was the car for me. It does not drive like the BMW. But at roughly $10K less than a nearly similarly equipped 330i, and with Honda reliability I was sold.

As for the drive, I did notice even on the test drive torque steer, or at least what is being called torque steer here. Almost every day there is one spot where I make a left turn across a street onto a freeway entrance ramp which then twists to meet the highway. The front end will not go in a straight line when accelerating and turning, even without pushing it hard at all (It still has less than 500 miles on it, so I'm not pushing it very hard yet). You quickly know when to let up on the accelerator to let it resume the direction you want to go. I will have to try the suggestion of turning off VSA.

After reading this forum, and just experiencing the drive, I have been wondering myself if it is really just the Turanza EL42's loosing traction and slipping around rather than really torque steer.

While I am very happy with the TL's handling, it just doesn't have the same fun, "precision" feel of the Prelude. Part of it may be that I drove the Prelude for many years and the TL for only a few weeks, but it is a feeling I had the first time I drove the Prelude. I can compare to the TSX. I actually regret not test driving it just for reference.

Overall though I'm not sorry I bought the TL. While the problems described above, and some very recent experiences vibrations are dissapointing, I still believe the TL was the best fit for me. From the comments here, it sounds like getting rid of the EL42s would solve most of the problems.

While the Prelude was fun, a 4 door is more practical for me. While the 330i drove better, it doesn't have all the toys, and $10K more was hard to justify. The TL is pretty much the best compromise between cost, performance, features, and luxury with a great reliability expectation.

I will admit, it doesn't have the same feel as the Prelude (and probably your Integra). However as I'm getting used to car, and it is getting broken in, I'm liking it even more. The car really didn't perform well with the really low shift points I was using the first few hundred miles. Now that I'm starting to push it a little harder it is becoming even more fun to drive. The luxury creature comforts are really easy to get used to.

I find myself driving less agressively. Rather than trying to get around the slow moving Bozos clogging up the left hand lane, I find I just relax and listen to the Stereo and go with the flow of traffic. I'm sure that won't last forever, if no reason other than I just don't feel safe stuck in the middle of a slow moving clump of cars. I feel much safer out in front of them with room to react when some idiot does something stupid.

So to wrap up this rambling post, I still believe the TL was the right decision for me, and probably for you. It is a great balance between luxury, performance and cost not matched by very many other cars if any. If a new set of tires could solve the few complaints I have with the car ,then it would be and even better value.


So go buy a TL, you won't be sorry!

lakeman

The tires make a huge difference. 3200 lb ballarina - I don't think so, but definately no big fat lady. If you find out that one tester was HPT and one not, let us know. The two cars I test drove were EL 42s and I just went on faith that it would be better with the HPT's. It was. I just recently checked the pressure and found it set close to factory at 35F/32R. From my old days with Audis, I tried more in the front and less in the rear(36F/30R) and it really helped. I could not find any understeer at any speed that was safe.

(Just came back from a weekend trip to NC. Averaged 32 on one leg (ave 65mph) , and 30 an another (ave 70 mph) - calculated value and display agreed to within 1 mpg. )

chadr

Jon,

I never did hear if you liked the TL after you had the chance to drive mine and push it a bit harder then during a standard TL. Let me know either here or via email.

Chad

JonDeutsch

Hi Chad,

Let me publicly thank you for giving me the opportunity to test drive your TL, and letting me drive it as hard as I wanted. Very, very nice of you and I appreciate it!

So, what did I think of it?

Well... my thoughts are colored by my own chemistry: We got a late start that morning on our 11 hour drive to Knoxviile, so I didn't have time to get my coffee in the morning, which means I was kind of in a caffeine-addict haze. I also had very little sleep due to a family emergency the night before. So, tired, no coffee, already drove an hour to get to the test-drive. (Chad, could you tell?? )

That said, I can tell you some facts that I came away with:

- Torque Steer did not occur as it did in the TL I test drove at Metro Acura in December
- Understeer was not very apparent... not nearly as bad as the test drive in December
- I was impressed with your TL's ability to "stick" to the road when we took some last-minute twisties and what I consider high speed. ( is there because Chad chuckled like a real driver would when I said that I was hitting it hard)
- Tires never screached or buckled or anything. They were planted.
- The Nav system was annoying during this test drive at times. It subbornly wanted me to make a U-turn no matter what we did.
- The Nav system was quite useful as it actually allowed us to browse the area to find some twisty back roads!

Overall impression: the tires seemed to make the TL perform significantly better than the some of the TL's I've test driven at dealers.

That said -- and what has stopped me from buying it thus far tus far -- is the overall "feel" of the car. There are times when I drive the car and I feel 'connected' to it and the road, and it's very satisfying. There are other times when the TL feels distant and bulky. I am concerned that it's the power steering setting... but it could be the size of the car overall.

I really dislike that distant and bulky feeling, and I gotta figure out for myself why the feelings aren't consistent. And which feeling will win over if I buy it.

Since Chad's test drive (where for some reason, it felt big -- maybe the coffee thing, who knows?), I started really re-considering the TSX. I figured -- hey, a smaller TL. That'll solve the problem nicely.

Well, it's very hard to find a 6MT TSX to test drive (I've only driven one once, and it was quite enjoyable, but not fast), so the jury is out. I hope to test drive the 6MT TSX in a couple of weeks along side the 6MT TL and have a real bake-off.

Jon

¿GotJazz?

That Girl - It sucks that nobody has reliably answered your question yet. I know that you've been asking about this in other threads.

Can someone more knowledgeable than me answer That Girl's question?

svtmike

It's either That Girl being extremely unfamiliar with FWD and minor torque steer, or her car. If it were me, I'd have had the service department check it out a long time ago if I thought the wheels were unstable.

Mike

JonDeutsch

That Girl sounds like she's got That Torque Steer.

It's unnerving to say the least, and it's what made C&D barf on the 04TL. Try new tires to mitigate this 'feature'.

Jon

chadr

Jon,

Yeah the nav forcing a u-turn was my fault though because I set it to the wrong place and the only way to get there was to make a u-turn.

As far as the big feeling goes I can understand where you are coming from. I honestly think the "a-spec" car would drive like a dream because of the springs and shocks but I would not be willing to dump 5k to get those. I am sure within the next few months that the shocks and springs will be available seperately for 1k or so and that will make a massive difference in the way the car drives.

All that said I really wish Acura would make a true sport sedan. For me that would be a TSX sized car with a 270+ HP motor (6-cyl or turbo 4 cyl) and AWD. I would want it to have all the amenities that the TL has and I think the price would fall in the 36 - 37k range. Build that car and I would be the first in line.

ThatGirl - what you are feeling is torque steer that is directly related to the terrible stock tires. Get new tires and you will notice this far less on your car.

JonDeutsch

BINGO!

Yup, that would be "the car" that would finally top the 3 series IMHO. And, yes, I'd pay $36k for that car.

Right now, though, it's a decision on whether to go below or above this ideal state in terms of sportiness, speed, and feel.

So, Chad... since you've had the car a while now... do you continue to feel the car is too big? Or are you getting accustomed to it, or what?

Thanks again Chad for the test drive!

DavidNJ

Thats what I would buy also. Unfortuately, we are minority purchasers. BMW does offer that (330xi, 325xi), as does MB (320 4Matic, 240 4Matic) and Audi (A4, S4). But the price comes out more like $40-45k. The VW W8 would also fall in that range for the high 30s).

In 2-3 years they may be a better selection (new larger 3-series, new Lexus GS series, new Passat, new Legacy).

P.S.
The Legacy has been available in the rest of the world for a while and has been well reviewed. But, remember we are talking big buck for a turbo 4. And trim is more Accord EX than Acura TL.