Good news on the Tire issue
12-30-2003, 11:15 PM
#41
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Everybody take a deep breath, lets see what Jimmyz comes up with when he brings his car in.
And yes, he said the dealer saw the pilots on new cars comming off the truck.
Slow down everyone, we are all frustrated and can not wait, but lets not get rowdy, this is the third thread started with the idea that the tires are being replaced, one from Maryland, one from Calif, and now one from Georgia.
If it truely is just the dealers doing this, we should let Acura know that even their dealer network has identified the tires as a problem, that should help get their attention.
And yes, he said the dealer saw the pilots on new cars comming off the truck.
Slow down everyone, we are all frustrated and can not wait, but lets not get rowdy, this is the third thread started with the idea that the tires are being replaced, one from Maryland, one from Calif, and now one from Georgia.
If it truely is just the dealers doing this, we should let Acura know that even their dealer network has identified the tires as a problem, that should help get their attention.
12-30-2003, 11:44 PM
#44
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Originally posted by gregory28 What's a 1500 mile service? [/B]
12-31-2003, 12:03 AM
#46
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Originally posted by brahtw8
An oil change. (Which is going to open a whole new can of worms since the manual apparently says not to change the oil for the first 7500 miles. I will be checking with the service dept. tomorrow.)
An oil change. (Which is going to open a whole new can of worms since the manual apparently says not to change the oil for the first 7500 miles. I will be checking with the service dept. tomorrow.)
At a differnt site, a dealer said there is extra Moly in the oil from the factory.
Good luck!
12-31-2003, 12:03 AM
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My TL should be arriving early January (build date Dec 23). Maybe it'll have the new tires on it when I get it? Can't hurt by keeping my fingers crossed! 
The factory is closed for ten days from Dec 24 after the New Year, which means that if all of the above statements hold true about the new wheels for cars coming off trucks, mine would have been one of the last made before they shut the factory down, and therefore would probably have new tires!
I should ask Sunnyvale Acura; they only just received 3 new cars on Saturday.
The factory is closed for ten days from Dec 24 after the New Year, which means that if all of the above statements hold true about the new wheels for cars coming off trucks, mine would have been one of the last made before they shut the factory down, and therefore would probably have new tires!
I should ask Sunnyvale Acura; they only just received 3 new cars on Saturday.
12-31-2003, 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by brahtw8
I brought my TL in for the 1500 mile service today, at 2000 miles.
I brought my TL in for the 1500 mile service today, at 2000 miles.
What 1500 mile service? Some PM me with info, please. Thanks.
12-31-2003, 03:15 AM
#49
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Re: Re: Re: Good news on the Tire issue
Originally posted by Jimmyz
That's what the service manager at Nalley Acura in Marietta, GA. told me. Moreover, he called me back to tell me this...and that there were serveral TL's they just received that had "new tires". I asked what the "new tires" were he said "Michelin Pilot Sports".
That being said, maybe he's too stupid to realize or know that some TL's come with these tires...your guess is a good as mine.
I regret even starting this tread. You guys are unbelievable.
That's what the service manager at Nalley Acura in Marietta, GA. told me. Moreover, he called me back to tell me this...and that there were serveral TL's they just received that had "new tires". I asked what the "new tires" were he said "Michelin Pilot Sports".
That being said, maybe he's too stupid to realize or know that some TL's come with these tires...your guess is a good as mine.
I regret even starting this tread. You guys are unbelievable.
Thanks for providing the name of the dealer. Wish you could have given the guy's name too. Nevertheless, I appreciate the update. I may have to give the guy a call. BTW, Michelin Pilots come on some '04 TLs????? What's the deal on this one, Jimmy?
12-31-2003, 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by need4spd
The manual says to wait for the multi info display to say it is due for the first oil change.
At a differnt site, a dealer said there is extra Moly in the oil from the factory.
The manual says to wait for the multi info display to say it is due for the first oil change.
At a differnt site, a dealer said there is extra Moly in the oil from the factory.
Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Acura engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions
Unless 1500 miles long enough for these "wear patterns" to develop it seems the dealership did you wrong.
On another note isn't Jimmyz is just sharing info that his dealer told him? Why is everyone shooting the messenger?
12-31-2003, 08:25 AM
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Good news on the Tire issue
Originally posted by acuraddict
...BTW, Michelin Pilots come on some '04 TLs????? What's the deal on this one, Jimmy?
...BTW, Michelin Pilots come on some '04 TLs????? What's the deal on this one, Jimmy?
12-31-2003, 09:05 AM
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lovely tires
200 some odd miles into my new TL. These tires had not been really as bad as i'd read. I was a little worried about them having read a ton of bad notes here on these tires.
What I can say is that in 2 moderate rains i"ve almost whiped out on a slight corner. My prev. car (passat) with all season Goodyears would have never even felt the rain. I can't recall which Goodyears I had but they were moderately priced as well.
I'm awaiting the first snowfall to see how these 'all-season' (hahaa) tires react to that. From what I've been reading this is when the tires are at their worse.
I'll be sure to note what haps at first snowfall. Here in Ohio, surely I'll get some snow soon.
Hoping for a tire swap from Acura,
Pete
What I can say is that in 2 moderate rains i"ve almost whiped out on a slight corner. My prev. car (passat) with all season Goodyears would have never even felt the rain. I can't recall which Goodyears I had but they were moderately priced as well.
I'm awaiting the first snowfall to see how these 'all-season' (hahaa) tires react to that. From what I've been reading this is when the tires are at their worse.
I'll be sure to note what haps at first snowfall. Here in Ohio, surely I'll get some snow soon.
Hoping for a tire swap from Acura,
Pete
12-31-2003, 09:34 AM
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I went to my Phoenix dealer Monday to ask if he could help me with a referral to his tire dealer on getting a set of Michelins for my TL because the Bridgestones suck. I told him that when I got my customer care call from Acura, I gave him and the dealership good marks, but also told the Acura rep that I had issues with the OEM tires and Acura didn't do too well with these tires on this $35k car. The sales manager who did a great job for me in getting my TL (3 weeks ago) didn't volunteer any official or unofficial tire updates but directed one of his salesmen to take me to the tire dealer and tell them that Acura sent me and see what kind of deal I could get. I ordered Michelin Sport (not the A/S @ $219 ea)with $50 trade-in on each of the EL42s, mounting and balancing, plus tax. I don't know if this is a good deal, but I was determined to replace the damn tires and make this car complete. I had checked with Costco and online with tirerack.com and the cost from this dealer were very competitive. So I'm getting them mounted Friday. My other Acuras came with Michelins and ride great. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
12-31-2003, 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by glg
Here's what Acura's website states:
Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Acura engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions
Unless 1500 miles long enough for these "wear patterns" to develop it seems the dealership did you wrong.
Here's what Acura's website states:
Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Acura engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions
Unless 1500 miles long enough for these "wear patterns" to develop it seems the dealership did you wrong.
Since they paid for the oil change, I don't think there is an ulterior motive here. And given my experience with the TL 6MT problem and the way they have cared for my NSX, I am not worried.
12-31-2003, 10:10 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by gregory28
[B]
an oil change ....
[B]
Originally posted by brahtw8
I brought my TL in for the 1500 mile service today, at 2000 miles.
What's a 1500 mile service?
I brought my TL in for the 1500 mile service today, at 2000 miles.
What's a 1500 mile service?
12-31-2003, 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by brahtw8
Since they paid for the oil change, I don't think there is an ulterior motive here. And given my experience with the TL 6MT problem and the way they have cared for my NSX, I am not worried.
Since they paid for the oil change, I don't think there is an ulterior motive here. And given my experience with the TL 6MT problem and the way they have cared for my NSX, I am not worried.
12-31-2003, 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Lore
Do you know when that car was dropped off at the dealership?
Do you know when that car was dropped off at the dealership?
If I was aware of this forum before I went on the test drive I definately would have asked.
12-31-2003, 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by brahtw8
I brought my TL in for the 1500 mile service today, at 2000 miles.
I had a brief conversation about the tires with the head of the service department when I saw they were delivering a new TL today with the EL42s. He said they were becoming quite a headache with all of the complaints. He also said that the TLs would soon be getting different tires from the factory.
I have no details beyond the above.
I don't know if he is correct, but I can state with certainty that we had the conversation, and that I have every confidence in his integrity.
As an aside, my car was delivered with Blizzak LM22s ($800 value w/mounting) instead of the EL42s, but that was a special situation that has no application here.
I brought my TL in for the 1500 mile service today, at 2000 miles.
I had a brief conversation about the tires with the head of the service department when I saw they were delivering a new TL today with the EL42s. He said they were becoming quite a headache with all of the complaints. He also said that the TLs would soon be getting different tires from the factory.
I have no details beyond the above.
I don't know if he is correct, but I can state with certainty that we had the conversation, and that I have every confidence in his integrity.
As an aside, my car was delivered with Blizzak LM22s ($800 value w/mounting) instead of the EL42s, but that was a special situation that has no application here.
01-01-2004, 08:50 AM
#63
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Originally posted by dulnev
Dude, what kind of a moron at the service department allowed you to change your oil at 2,000 miles??? You're not supposed to touch it for the first 7,500 miles for proper break-in!
Dude, what kind of a moron at the service department allowed you to change your oil at 2,000 miles??? You're not supposed to touch it for the first 7,500 miles for proper break-in!
Since they paid for the oil change, and have yet to let me down, I am not worried.
01-01-2004, 09:57 AM
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I too have the "tire" issue. I currently have about 1600 miles on my car and have been to the dealer 3 times already regarding this issue. Went to see my dealer again on Tuesday 12/30. I finnally got an appointment with the service manager who took a test drive with me and agreed that there was a vibration issue. Immediately gave me 4 brand new tires. Unfortunately they are still the EL42's. He said to call him on Friday 1/2/04 and that if I still wasn't satisfied he would order the Michelen's for me.
I agree that this is a dealer thing and that certain dealers are doing it to make their customers happy.
I agree that this is a dealer thing and that certain dealers are doing it to make their customers happy.
01-02-2004, 01:47 PM
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So here's the update from my "individual experience". Today I had my Bridgestone Turanza EL42 replaced with Michelin Pilot Sports at no charge. This is the service managers story:
The early VIN TL's have vibration problems and Acura is well aware of it. The southeast regional Acura rep told my dealer to replace my tires because he'll never get the vibration out by balancing. They (the dealer) have done this w/several other TL's sold at this particular dealership. The service manager said it was on Acura's internal website as a "Technical Advisory" (not a TSB) to fix the vibration problem, one should replace the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires with Pilot Sports (that's what he told me).
Moreover, he said that the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 have been "re-engineered" and that Bridgestone has fixed the problem. He made it sound as if the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 will still be the tire choice moving forward.
That's it. Sounds like a load of doo-doo I'm sure but that's the deal.
This is what the tire looks like: Tire
The early VIN TL's have vibration problems and Acura is well aware of it. The southeast regional Acura rep told my dealer to replace my tires because he'll never get the vibration out by balancing. They (the dealer) have done this w/several other TL's sold at this particular dealership. The service manager said it was on Acura's internal website as a "Technical Advisory" (not a TSB) to fix the vibration problem, one should replace the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires with Pilot Sports (that's what he told me).
Moreover, he said that the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 have been "re-engineered" and that Bridgestone has fixed the problem. He made it sound as if the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 will still be the tire choice moving forward.
That's it. Sounds like a load of doo-doo I'm sure but that's the deal.
This is what the tire looks like: Tire
01-02-2004, 01:58 PM
#66
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Thanks, man. I'm glad to know you got some confirmation back.
It's useful. I'll pick up my car later from the dealer and ask my manager to check that "Technical Advisory" again. Prior to having the offical TSB# with "Check Engine Light" update, my service manager used that TA stuff to upload software and fix my car. If TA is there, it should be easy for dealers to find out.
But, I got a question to your tires. Could you check them again? Michelin Pilot Sport is Summer tires, not all season (Pilot Sport A/S) I just wonder why use Summer tires instead of All-season tires (EL42s)...
IMO, no matter how Bridgestone re-design or re-modify EL42, it will not completely get rid of the noise, low comfort ride, and snow/rain issues.
It's useful. I'll pick up my car later from the dealer and ask my manager to check that "Technical Advisory" again. Prior to having the offical TSB# with "Check Engine Light" update, my service manager used that TA stuff to upload software and fix my car. If TA is there, it should be easy for dealers to find out.
But, I got a question to your tires. Could you check them again? Michelin Pilot Sport is Summer tires, not all season (Pilot Sport A/S) I just wonder why use Summer tires instead of All-season tires (EL42s)...
IMO, no matter how Bridgestone re-design or re-modify EL42, it will not completely get rid of the noise, low comfort ride, and snow/rain issues.
01-02-2004, 01:59 PM
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Jimmyz, thanks for the update. Unless Bridgestone has changed the EL42s from nylon, that last part does sound like a load of doo doo. The first part of the story at least sounds plausible.
01-02-2004, 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by rets
Thanks, man. I'm glad to know you got some confirmation back.
It's useful. I'll pick up my car later from the dealer and ask my manager to check that "Technical Advisory" again. Prior to having the offical TSB# with "Check Engine Light" update, my service manager used that TA stuff to upload software and fix my car. If TA is there, it should be easy for dealers to find out.
But, I got a question to your tires. Could you check them again? Michelin Pilot Sport is Summer tires, not all season (Pilot Sport A/S) I just wonder why use Summer tires instead of All-season tires (EL42s)...
IMO, no matter how Bridgestone re-design or re-modify EL42, it will not completely get rid of the noise, low comfort ride, and snow/rain issues.
Thanks, man. I'm glad to know you got some confirmation back.
It's useful. I'll pick up my car later from the dealer and ask my manager to check that "Technical Advisory" again. Prior to having the offical TSB# with "Check Engine Light" update, my service manager used that TA stuff to upload software and fix my car. If TA is there, it should be easy for dealers to find out.
But, I got a question to your tires. Could you check them again? Michelin Pilot Sport is Summer tires, not all season (Pilot Sport A/S) I just wonder why use Summer tires instead of All-season tires (EL42s)...
IMO, no matter how Bridgestone re-design or re-modify EL42, it will not completely get rid of the noise, low comfort ride, and snow/rain issues.
01-02-2004, 02:35 PM
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01-02-2004, 03:39 PM
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I believe we will find out how much Acura cares about its customers by how well they handle this problem. I have owned four of thier cars (legend, cl, rl, and tl) and have always been impressed by thier desire to achive the very best in customer satifaction.
These (el42) are the worst tires I have ever had the displeasure of using. I have a 6mt and first gear will break these tires loose if there is an ounce of moisture on the roads. The flat spotting is a probem but it does go away after 10 min of driving. The vibration problem is apparent after 50mph but maybe not so bad as others have discribed.
I will wait to see what Acura does do to correct the problem. I have the greatest faith (from previous ownership) that they will do whatever it takes to keep us happy. If not, I will buy the Michelins, but will have to think twice about buying another Acura.
These (el42) are the worst tires I have ever had the displeasure of using. I have a 6mt and first gear will break these tires loose if there is an ounce of moisture on the roads. The flat spotting is a probem but it does go away after 10 min of driving. The vibration problem is apparent after 50mph but maybe not so bad as others have discribed.
I will wait to see what Acura does do to correct the problem. I have the greatest faith (from previous ownership) that they will do whatever it takes to keep us happy. If not, I will buy the Michelins, but will have to think twice about buying another Acura.
01-02-2004, 03:43 PM
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So, are we assuming that maybe Bridgestone had a bad lot of tires the were purchased and put on the early build TL's? If so, is there a way to find out what build #'s have the bad tires or the lot #'s o fthe bad tires. I know that each tire has an individual serial #.
01-02-2004, 04:33 PM
#75
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Thank you for the updates, Jimmy. It's interesting that Acura wishes to keep the EL42 as its choice. Bridgestone/Firestone must have paid major coin not to lose such a major customer as Honda/Acura. They need every one they can get after the Firestone/Explorer fiasco.
I'm still switching my tires out even though I have no flatspotting or vibrations, I don't want to take any chances.
I'm still switching my tires out even though I have no flatspotting or vibrations, I don't want to take any chances.
01-02-2004, 06:01 PM
#76
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I just returned from my dealer. When I told him this news, the service manager displayed his unbelievable face to me again as he did a month ago while I asked him "Check engine light" issue. (He didn't change his facial expression until Acura engineers announce the Technical Advisory then TSB for that issue.)
I hope he will give me the same surprise again in two weeks.
He now say there is no update of tires(or vibration) yet from his regional rep. or Acura engineers, and his dealership is not willing to do any change at this moment unless Acura provides more details and instructions.
This is the answer I got from my dealer in New York.
Disappointed, but well-known.
01-02-2004, 06:08 PM
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Alrighty.. congrats on the new tires... now the somewhat official word that the western regional service reps have stated to my local dealership is to not replace tires at the dealer expense anymore... The affected vehicles are the lower Vin # vehicles, and acura will soon put out a TSB for all those vehicles to be brought back in and replaced with the new batch of Bridgestone tires.. I guess the manufacturer had a problem with a certain btach of tires, and the issue has been addressed and Bridgestone will replace the tires free of charge to acura. If you own one of the vehicles affected, you will be able to return the vehicle back to the dealership and have them run the vin, if they vin falls between the scope of bad tires, you will get the new tires...
Thats what i was told today while i made my visit to the service department.... Doesnt matter to me, i dont have the stock wheels and tires anymore, but just wanted to give you guys a headsup..
Thats what i was told today while i made my visit to the service department.... Doesnt matter to me, i dont have the stock wheels and tires anymore, but just wanted to give you guys a headsup..
01-02-2004, 06:33 PM
#78
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Originally posted by jimthegreek
Alrighty.. congrats on the new tires... now the somewhat official word that the western regional service reps have stated to my local dealership is to not replace tires at the dealer expense anymore... The affected vehicles are the lower Vin # vehicles, and acura will soon put out a TSB for all those vehicles to be brought back in and replaced with the new batch of Bridgestone tires.. I guess the manufacturer had a problem with a certain btach of tires, and the issue has been addressed and Bridgestone will replace the tires free of charge to acura. If you own one of the vehicles affected, you will be able to return the vehicle back to the dealership and have them run the vin, if they vin falls between the scope of bad tires, you will get the new tires...
Alrighty.. congrats on the new tires... now the somewhat official word that the western regional service reps have stated to my local dealership is to not replace tires at the dealer expense anymore... The affected vehicles are the lower Vin # vehicles, and acura will soon put out a TSB for all those vehicles to be brought back in and replaced with the new batch of Bridgestone tires.. I guess the manufacturer had a problem with a certain btach of tires, and the issue has been addressed and Bridgestone will replace the tires free of charge to acura. If you own one of the vehicles affected, you will be able to return the vehicle back to the dealership and have them run the vin, if they vin falls between the scope of bad tires, you will get the new tires...
He always denies all my questions/issues, then provides me the surprise after two weeks. Damn...
01-03-2004, 09:07 PM
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Posted by: KJSmitty
My input/2C's
I have owned Michelin Pilots, Pilot Sports A/S's, and Bridgestone S03 Pole Position's. I'm not a real aggressive driver but I do have a 60 mile commute in the Dallas TX area. Obviously gets extremely hot and or wet, with fast driving... Here is my opinion of the three...
Ranked 3rd) The Michelin Pilots were by far the smoothest tire I have owned. Was it just a superb balancing from the factory (Honda), or a darn good manufactured tire? Don't know but in near 40,000 miles they were perfectly smooth and I never had them rebalanced, just rotated every 5000. No flatspotting either. Now, the bad news is they really stunk for both wet and dry handling, especially wet, and they were extremely noisy... The replacement price was also bad for my specific size...
Ranked 2nd) The Bridgestone S03's, replaced the above Pilots. They too were pretty smooth yet had very minor vibration over 75mph. I think the "Hunter 9700 RFV" balancer would have taken care of this but I did not know it existed when I had them mounted and balanced. Sold the car the week I was going to take it in for the first balance at 8000 miles. My opinion, a huge improvement in handling over the Pilot's, especially regarding wet traction. Now the bad, flatspotting issue present regardless of temp (20-100). Anytime they sat for 5-8 hours (everyday at work) it felt like I had multiple flats when I left... Once you got past that they were a very good summer/performance tire. Price was reasonable, looked and performed great, and had a smooth/quiet ride.
Ranked 1st) Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. I'll begin by admitting I loved these tires. Best part was I didn't have to pay for them,,,, $310 a piece for my application yet covered by the dealer... So, if one can get by the price, they are a superb tire. Wet and dry handling??- short of trying a James Bond maneuver I never had them break loose in wet or dry. Very smooth and true, absolutely no flatspotting. Normally I ran 32psi for a much improved ride. Really smoothed out the minor imperfections in the TX roads. They did have a "low speed" hum that may have been the car but overall very quiet at speed. The tread pattern is very aggressive and at first had me wondering but it soon really grew on me. The one thing I did not get to experience was any "snow" performance. Given that awesome aggressive tread pattern I'm sure they would be quite impressive though.
So, overall, if I had an extra $grand in my wallet I would be calling TireRack and having a set of A/S's dropped on my front porch. My 04 TL deserves better than the "42's"!!
My input/2C's
I have owned Michelin Pilots, Pilot Sports A/S's, and Bridgestone S03 Pole Position's. I'm not a real aggressive driver but I do have a 60 mile commute in the Dallas TX area. Obviously gets extremely hot and or wet, with fast driving... Here is my opinion of the three...
Ranked 3rd) The Michelin Pilots were by far the smoothest tire I have owned. Was it just a superb balancing from the factory (Honda), or a darn good manufactured tire? Don't know but in near 40,000 miles they were perfectly smooth and I never had them rebalanced, just rotated every 5000. No flatspotting either. Now, the bad news is they really stunk for both wet and dry handling, especially wet, and they were extremely noisy... The replacement price was also bad for my specific size...
Ranked 2nd) The Bridgestone S03's, replaced the above Pilots. They too were pretty smooth yet had very minor vibration over 75mph. I think the "Hunter 9700 RFV" balancer would have taken care of this but I did not know it existed when I had them mounted and balanced. Sold the car the week I was going to take it in for the first balance at 8000 miles. My opinion, a huge improvement in handling over the Pilot's, especially regarding wet traction. Now the bad, flatspotting issue present regardless of temp (20-100). Anytime they sat for 5-8 hours (everyday at work) it felt like I had multiple flats when I left... Once you got past that they were a very good summer/performance tire. Price was reasonable, looked and performed great, and had a smooth/quiet ride.
Ranked 1st) Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. I'll begin by admitting I loved these tires. Best part was I didn't have to pay for them,,,, $310 a piece for my application yet covered by the dealer... So, if one can get by the price, they are a superb tire. Wet and dry handling??- short of trying a James Bond maneuver I never had them break loose in wet or dry. Very smooth and true, absolutely no flatspotting. Normally I ran 32psi for a much improved ride. Really smoothed out the minor imperfections in the TX roads. They did have a "low speed" hum that may have been the car but overall very quiet at speed. The tread pattern is very aggressive and at first had me wondering but it soon really grew on me. The one thing I did not get to experience was any "snow" performance. Given that awesome aggressive tread pattern I'm sure they would be quite impressive though.
So, overall, if I had an extra $grand in my wallet I would be calling TireRack and having a set of A/S's dropped on my front porch. My 04 TL deserves better than the "42's"!!