swoosh

iTrader: (5)

my bad bro...didnt mean to give out false information....i should have googled

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

^
Not a problem!

I hate cars

Very good points Inaccurate. It's kind of sad when you get a larger filter with the same size media inside. It sort of defeats the purpose. I guess you gain *some* benefit from the minute extra oil capacity.

I remember the same over on bitog when people were cutting open the same brand of filter and finding different internals depending on when they were made. I remember some of the findings were that not only did they switch the internals but they switched who actually made the filter. Kind of makes it hard to choose a filter when you get something different every time.

I also fully agree that flow is 1,000% more important than filtration. The one thing I wanted to mention though is the easy opening of the bypass. I don't really consider easy opening a good thing. Of course, too high of a psi is bad also. As you mentioned, this thing is likely only going to open when the oil is cold and hopefully only when you're at higher rpm. I've sought out a higher opening psi. The S2000 filters on average and depending on the brand have a higher bypass opening psi. Once that thing opens is pushing unfiltered oil to the engine.

I remember closely watching a test done by a well respected and one of the few knowledgeable bitog members. He put a pressure gauge before the filter and after the filter with the bypass disabled. Even on a cold morning, much colder than I will ever see, there was maybe 3-4psi pressure differential during normal driving (not idle). Once warm there was no measurable pressure differential. I believe this was an Amsoil EAO filter but don't hold me to it. Short of a 7,000rpm cold startup on an heavy oil I just don't see the bypass coming into play too much. Of course, that changes as the filter is loaded.

I can see idle on the J series being an issue with too high of an opening psi. According to a well known engine builder on here, the J has scary low oil pressure on a 5w-20 once hot. I can see how a 20psi bypass could cause issues when the J makes 10-12psi at hot idle. It would be extremely hard for a filter to be so plugged that it won't flow an idle amount of oil but I guess anything is possible.

The great thing about the two filters that use the synthetic media is that you don't have to sacrifice flow for filtration, you can have both.

Another benefit of the synthetic media is that it does not swell in the presence of water like cellulose media. Oil will always have a trace of water in it. On a short tripper it can have up to 2%. On a car with mechanical issues it can have a lot more. Water will degrade the cardboard end caps quicker and when the media swells it no longer filters as well.

For the extended change guys, the silicone anti drainback valve of the premium filters is a must. I've had the rubber ones fail several times. You may not notice it on the TL but it's very important that it functions.

I don't agree with "bob" the founder of bitog. He originally ran with no oil filter. It's just like no air filter, there will be no immediate penalties but it will eventually catch up to you. It would be like me running the TL with no air filter for 20,000 miles and then telling everyone on here that it's fine to run with no filter because my car survived 20,000 miles.

The filtration beta ratios are debatable. Some say that as long as "dirt" particles in the oil are smaller than the bearing clearance then filtering any smaller will make no difference. I don't believe in that because you have lots of areas that are in direct contact with no hydrodynamic lube such as the rings and cylinders. IMO, this is where a good filtration system will do the most good but not so much in the bearings. That microscopic dirt will act as a rubbing compound over time.

I think the biggest debate with oils and filters is if we will keep the car long enough to see the benefits of running the "good" stuff. I'm sure 200,000 miles is attainable on the cheapest dino oil with the cheapest Fram filter. But even if I knew I would total the car at only 150,000 miles I look at the oil and filter as a safety cushion if any number of things go wrong.

Inaccurate

Regarding the BITOG member doing the pressure differential across the filter. I had actually read that thread several years ago. As I recall it, he tested several filters, one being a Fram of course.

I agree about the drop probably being insignificant. However, I want to feel comfortable when I need to race (yes I said "need" ) before the oil has thinned out. As you know but stating for others, the oil can take approx 10-15 minutes to get up to operating temps..... well at least on a small block chevy.

Sometimes emotions are more powerful than logic.

I hate cars

Very true. I've done a full throttle run on a dead cold engine when a Viper passed by. I felt terrible afterward but nothing was going to stop me from racing.

*If* you know you're going to run on a dead cold engine, possibly multiple times, I agree with your logic to have the higher flowing bypass. Actually, to clarify I think every bypass should be capable of full flow with minimal pressure drop. The only grey area is at what psi it should open. Last time I checked, the S2000 filters consistently had a higher bypass rating than the other Honda filters. I'm not sure what factor would change that requirement.

The part that surprised me during that old test was that the van that was tested was in pump bypass while cold and still did not hit the standard filter bypass psi according to the pressure drop. As you know (just stating for others) once the pump hits bypass, volume can get pretty high. Before that test, I assumed that all cars hit filter bypass when cold and with normal driving. It's not to say that a different car with a different setup could hit filter bypass regularly.

One thing I will admit is I think Fram has gotten a worse than deserved rep on the internet. If a Fram was the only filter available I would have no worries running one.

27reno

how are k&N oil filters?

DMZ

My best buddy from high school owned an auto parts store for 25 years. He would NEVER use Fram or Purolator ANYTHING on any of his cars.

I use the WIX / NAPA Gold 1334.
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I hate cars

Good filters. Last time I checked they were close to the Mobil One filters in flow and filtration but that was about 4 years ago. Somewhere in the middle between the very best and very worst.