I've kind of thought of the first week with the new car as an evaluation period. I've driven it a total of 350 miles and would like to offer some new impressions.

Dislikes first:
The C-pillar causes a huge blind spot on either side. Before changing lanes, I have to do a quick check of the side mirrors, and turn my head, bobbing and weaving. I don't like this but have become accustomed to it.

The front end dips so far forward that I can't see the end of the hood when I park. I was already used to this because I had the same problem in my 2000 Dodge Intrepid. Not a big issue.

The Bridgestone Turanza EL42 tires are gonna be replaced as soon as they wear out, or even before. If it weren't for the sound deadening in the new TL, there'd be a lot more tire noise than there is. The handling is OK for touring (e.g. driving the speed limit and well below the handling limits of the car) but not for the type of spirited driving I enjoy. I can feel the car starting to slip before VSA kicks in when I'm in my favorite curve at 70 mph. I don't trust these in the rain, and I simply drive in a most unsporting way as a result. Michelin Sport A/S Continental ContiExtreme Contacts, or Dunlop SP Sport 5000, here I come. The EL42s are univerally panned on Tire and Rack's comments section. I can't believe Acura would choose such awful tires.

There is a lack of power with low rpms. I wanted to see for myself before commenting. It takes until the engine winds up to about 3 k before you feel yourself launching. Afterward, I DO feel that "seat of the pants" sensation as the car launches forward. In addition to the launch, there is mild torque steer in either direction, but I notice this only as I'm accelerating hard midway through a turn, not much of a problem for me. The slow windup appears to be a side effect of the "drive by wire" system, and I've already adjusted by simply pushing the accelerator harder when I want to accelerate. So much for "pretend there's an egg under your toes" in accelerating.

LIKES:

The exterior is REALLY gorgeous. This car looks sweet. I've gotten comments from people about how "hot" the car looks.

The interior is REALLY gorgeous. The interior leather and vinyl surfaces are high quality, much more so than the prior TL, with the exceptions that everyone knows (seatbacks, lower door panels). I like the sunglass holder because It's quiet. I've had my sunglasses down there all week and I simply can't hear them. In addition, they are well protected because of the rubberized interior.

The engine sound is beautiful, especially when you hear VTEC kicking in during hard acceleration. Ahhhh, heaven.

The handling and ride are excellent for my needs. It's no luxo-boat--doesn't bob and weave over bumps, it's pretty much as I said before, one or two disciplined bumps and back to stability. There is barely any body roll in the curves, but there is a lot of it in my wife's Accord, as nimbly as it handles otherwise. The ride is not harsh over rough pavement. I'd like to try the lowering springs that are coming. That, and new rubber, should improve handling somewhat.

The navi is way cool. It is pretty much dead on, though the manual indicates that a certain amount of inaccuracy is built in. The directions it provides around town are accurate. Most of the voice commands are accurately rendered, with some exceptions. The only problem I have with it is that I can't figure out how to turn it off when I'm done with it. I can't believe I have yet to figure this out, but it's not obvious in the manual how to do it. The only thing I can think of is not to turn on the map. If I use the screen for the radio, I presss "audio" a second time and the warning screen for the navi comes up, and times out if I don't press "OK". Odd, probably just me still learning how to use the navi.

In total: I still like the car, will keep it, and will drive the heck out of it. I still think Acura has a winner with this car. It is head and shoulders above the old model in most ways. My only regret is that I can't buy a MT. Remember, I upgraded from a TL-P, so please be gentle with your comments if you are comparing this to a TL-S.

 

Congrats on the new ride. I doubt anyone will be disappointed in the TL. I don't care for the looks of the exterior at all, but I'm am so feeling the interior. It is straight luxury quality. All in all it doesn't give me the slightest itch to dump mine and pick up the new one though. I'm waiting for the new S2000 (oh boy!) Anyway, enjoy your new ride and spank up on some G35's & Maxima's!

 

I've only had it since Wednesday 5pm, but eesh.. i'm in WUV.

I get more of a blindspot from the B Pillar than the C Pillar, I guess I'm used to using the side mirror and rearview to check that view.

Front end slope, nothing major, every car I've ever driven or had was like that so I'm used to it, hence why I park 3 feet from a wall, I can't see, I use the headlights to let me know when I'm close enough.

Turanza's are loud, they were loud on my 98 accord, they are loud on here, oh well. I liked, Loved, the MXV4+ M&S's 100% better on my 00 TL, and put them on the Accord when the stocks wore out.

Love the interior, the combination of the black/silver/grey on the Blue/Quartz combo is gorgeous IMHO.

Exterior, you said it enough, flawless, I love it. Was concerned before I even saw it that I wouldn't like the tails, but they grew on me immediately. I bought the car before I even saw it in person, before I even drove it, just wanted it.

My only gripe is the learning curve... buttons buttons buttons information information, I'm actually having to RTFM. Like right now I'm trying to figure out how to activate the auto down side mirrors that aren't auto-downing.

Acceleration seems fine on mine, takes off like the Enterprise. One thing I notice that's fixed on the Gen2 tranny is the delay of decision at top of each gear before it decides to upshift, it goes quite happily and quickly now, that used to bug me in my 00 TL.

Love the headlights, and the side lights.. got some nice class.

Off I go now to give another tour of the car at work, so far I've been giving tours every hour, people want to go see it. I love this attention.

 

I suspect you just have to the leave the mirror select switch (L - R) in the center position. That is how it is on my CL-S.

-r

 

exactly the opposite, must be left in the L or R position for that one to go down, ug, I thought it did both automatically.

 

He can try but may not suceed on the spanking of the Maxima's and G35's all driver dependent!

 

As for apparent blindspots, click the following link for helpful advice:

** Click and Clack's instructions for eliminating blind spots **

Unless the size of the outboard mirrors has shrunk, the size of the "B" or "C" pillar should be irrelevant.

rw

 

Thats very helpful. Thanks!

 

neuronbob,

Do you experience the same effect with the transmission in "L" or "M"?

 

I totally agree with you on this. Seems like the B pillar is more forward than most cars. In my Montero Sport, it is behind my ears. But in the TL, it's even with my ears. So it affects my peripheral vision somewhat.

 

Why, why, why ?????????

I have been waiting for this since 1999.....of ocurse I have a 99 TL.

 

Hey Neuron Bob have you or plan to tint the 04 TL?

Read this:

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...sage_id=160256

I hope it is not TRUE

 

I whined to an Acura representative at an auto show yesterday about the lag in acceleration at low rpms, and was encouraged (albeit sceptical) by what he had to say. He claimed that the car's computer will "learn" your style of driving and make certain adjustments (sorry - I forget what they were exactly). At some point, this will produce quicker/smoother acceleration if you are normally heavy-footed. I have not yet reread the brochure to see if this is documented.

Anyone have any thoughts/knowledge?

 

That is called adaptive throttle and transmission setting. Audi's have been doing it for awhile. If this is the first car you have owned with drive-by-wire there are a lot of things that the car can now do that you couldn't with a throttle wire.

Likely what he was describing is the throttle tip it setting. The computer on drive by wire can adjust the throttle application and tip in settings based on your driving style. On Audis the transmission also learns you style and if you are more aggressive it will hold gears longer and to higher revs.

Honestly I would have no reason to doubt him based on my knowledge of drive by wire systems.

 

Sherlock and Sparky--I learned to drive on a car with one side mirror so I've always used my own eyes. Once I adjusted the side mirrors to see traffic rather than the lane markers, the C-pillar ceased to be an issue. Thanks for the advice, this experienced driver definitely learned something new.

SFZip, I don't experience the same lag in "L" or SS. I also figured out why this happens by reading the owner's manual. It says: "For faster acceleration when in D, you can get the transmission to automatically downshift by pushing the accelerator pedal to the floor. The transmission will shift down one, two, or three gears, depending on your speed." Using this approach, I gave up the "pretend you've got an egg between your foot and the accelerator" teachings from driver's school and pushed the accelerator harder, and the lag disappeared. This issue therefore has to be from the drive by wire system or the adaptive computer, and should be less of a problem as I drive the car more.

Bitium--I wish I could buy a MT but my wife has to be able to drive the car in a pinch and I'm not willing to teach her how to drive a MT in a very expensive test car. Agh, the compromises one must make in marriage.

2004TL--Thanks for the link. I had been planning to tint my car....I've never heard of this issue and don't see why this guy would have problems. Will check owner's manual for specific issues.

Bigbluu--I noticed the B-pillar issue too, but the mirrors eliminate that problem too.

 

First week the with new TL? In the DC area, we've still got a two-week wait. How come you all have gotten yours already? Still, it's nice to know these things, especially about the tires. Maybe I can order mine with different tires, since no one seems to like the ones that are already on there. What do you think?

 

It was interesting to read Click and Clack's instructions. That is what I have always done but everyone I know sets the sideviews to look behind them.

However, I did have more trouble seeing out of this car. The doors are taller and there's more metal after the back windows than I am used to. Plus - maybe I imagined this - the sideviews did seem a bit smaller than other cars, cutting down on the visibility. I expect it's just something to get used to.

 

I understand......I must say to my wife...sorry honey....drive the station wagon.

 

Our other car is an S2000. While I have no trouble in traffic changing lanes, I find that backing out of a parking place is a challenge (at least with the top up). I'm constantly looking around to make sure that a pedestrian doesn't move into the significant blind spots in the rear.

rw

 

Agree, nissan's VQ35DE delivers incredible LOW end torque, hence better 0-60 times
1/4 mile with 270hp in the acura can be a different story though.

 

Funny, I've got an s2000 and am trading it in for an 04 tl.:p Don't get too hyped about the 04 s2000, in my opinion you're better off with an 02-03. The 04's don't have the 9k redline! It's been dropped to 8k. It doesn't look much different than a "legend" s2000 either. I LOVE the s2000 but unfortunately, i have to get a more practical car, now that I'm married with the near future of kids....

 

I'd like to hear more about the presumed/hoped for improvements in acceleration over time. NeuronBob - not surprised that stomping on the gas pedal helped, but when I did it the car lurched ahead then moved back up a gear which produced another lurch. Are you getting smooth acceleration? I'm amazed that the owner's manual would say to push the pedal to the floor - that's pretty extreme advice. Chadr, do you think acceleration will change over time in terms of both rate and smoothness?

 

I'm responding to my own post to get this back into discussion . . . basically I'm passing on a TL because after three different test drives I'm feeling like this car can't get out of its own way. It feels to me like 200 horses are hiding up above 3500 rpm waiting for the 70 to show up. When I stopped on a highway on-ramp and then accelerated quickly the tach hit 6500 briefly before 2nd gear, then dropped down to 2000, then back up and down, the car meanwhile lurching worse than a badly clutched stick. I don't think it's just me, which is why I've driven the car three different times, but no one else on this board seems to have a gripe, and even C+D downplayed the issue. I'm trying to be open-minded, and still like everything else enough to buy this car (except for all the initial quality problems being raised) but I'm perplexed about the power. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

Now that I've got 600 miles on the car (e.g. break-in over!!!! yipee) I've tried a couple of VTEC runs trying to go from a dead stop to freeway speed (80 mph). I don't notice what you do, Fencesitter. As soon as I push the accelerator, I get good and immediate acceleration, and absolutely no lurching. The gears seem to change a little early for my taste in the "D" setting, but do so smoothly and without lurching.

 

The car definitely doesn't have the neck snapping power one would expect with this much horsepower. I actually test drove an Accord EX V6 and noticed VERY similar acceleration characteristics, i.e., its urgency to get up to 60 from a stop. Now that I think of it, after the test drive of the Accord, I am sort of hard pressed to see much of a difference at all in acceleration.

 

Hey neuronbob....your Photo gallery isn't workin properly.

 

One thing should be taken into consideration: Neck-Snapping and Horsepower are unrelated. Neck-Snapping and TORQUE are. 238 isn't the greatest torque number when related with 270 horse, but the car is not a slouch, it does get up and go for me. And pedal to the floor to get it to shift is also nothing new to me, it's just the way it's setup, and it does learn. I remember my 00 TL changed over the year I had it, it had the adaptive tranny as well.

Horsepower is a function of distance, distance traveled by the item performing the work, namely here, the piston. so the most distance it's travelling, which translates to RPM, then the horsepower comes in, so of course it's going to be high, 6200 in our car. Just a fact of life on smaller engines.

 

For what it's worth, I also didn't notice much difference in acceleration between the 6 cylinder Accord and the TL. I still opted for ordering a TL, because I felt the entire package was so much better. If my main concern was 0-60 acceleration, I wouldn't be looking at Honda at all - I'd get an Evo or Sti...

 

Yeah....Test drive a TL 6MT.

 

Not entirely true. If you have enough HP, the neck snapping will also take place. Granted, a higher torque number WILL provide a majority of that sensation. But that is really at lower speeds. Once the car is moving, HP takes over and that's where the you will feel the neck snap sensation. Case in point, my S2000. IT has lower torque, but once at speed and VTEC engagement, you definitely feel the surge in speed.

 

The gallery is on A-TL.com. Unfortunately, A-TL.com seems to be a lot less reliable lately, it's been more difficult to access. Works fine for me right now.

 

Another good suggestion.

Are you in the military, Bitium? (Ramstein kinda gives it away...lived in Germany for a few years as a kid.)

 

I'm actually hard pressed to see that the TL package is so much better than the Accord. Granted you get some cool features like HIDs and DTS, but I was truly amazed at similar the two cars "felt". Dynamically there were very similar to me. The STi would be my definite choice if only it weren't for that huge retarded wing, front hood scoop, pathetic NVH, lack of NAV, and poor lighting...other than that it really is a pisser to drive!