Legend2TL

April 2005 update for Edmunds long term test of 2004 TL

http://www.edmunds.com/used/2004/acu...alpage=page003

ramzfan

Edmunds totally contradicts themselves in this article. First they say the TL is the quickest they have ever had in the slalom test, and then say it can't match a 3 series or a G35 on a twisty road? The last time I checked the slalom was done by twist ing through cones. Just more of Edmunds bias towards rear wheel drive.

And what's up with "Taking off from a stop in the TL is a tad more challenging than one would expect in a premium-brand sedan, and, says one of our editors, "That diminishes one's excitement to drive the vehicle."
I fail to see the challenge in pressing a gas pedal and having what I and most others consider to be more than adequate acceleration. You don't get torque steer from a vehicle lacking power. Heck, the torque steer should have been their argument for the car being rear wheel drive, not a slolom test that it aced.

Gadgets

I'm trying to picture this... Guessing they meant door or roof.

TL42

Nice to read such a great review of our TL's, even if it was a bit
on the schizo side. Its great but, .... it handles the cones, but ...

Damn... We've had our TL since last October, and I still look forward to getting
behind the wheel every chance I get...


And I even have my AARP card..... and never a problem getting in or out.....


That was a little bit of "old guy" humour... not meant to offend anyone..


TL42 - Gord

Bobzmcishl

Edmunds is not the only reviewer biased toward rear wheel drive. All of the car mags are too. I don't think there is any doubt that fwd is the achilles heel of TL. I have had mine for over a year now and the torque steer on acceleration still irritates me. I doubt if I would buy another TL even though I am a big fan of Honda quality. I will probably look closely at the G35 again. All "performance" cars seem to be either rwd or awd now. I think Honda needs to pay attention to what is happening in this arena.

SodaLuvr

Funny how they never mention anything about maintenance.

caball88

i would have to agree with the article in terms of perfomance/fun to drive of fwd vs rwd. this is my first fwd car and the torque steer and traction/handling problems associated with the car would probably detour me from getting another fwd car again. i bought it mainly for safety as rwd sucks in the snow. but now since i don't have to drive to work anymore the i am really missing rwd characteristics of handling. its not just the simple fact of the matter that you have to be so much more careful with the throttle to get good acceleration out of the car. not just from stand still but exiting through turns and when there is uneven roads the front tires skip like alot when the gas is applied hard. there is just a big difference in handling feel.

as for the slalom fwd cars always do better than a rwd counter part for based on the physics on that test. the car is thrown left and right and the understeer characteristics of fwd cars will point the car in the correct next position quicker. this is however not realistic example of handling on a road course.

i love the TL and think its probably the best sedan in its class, but it does not win in all categories. it's a good balance of perfomance, luxury, comfort and features. i know as owners we are all quick to be defensive about the car but most magazines are rwd bias'ed for a reason, being that it is a superior platform as far as performance is concerned. with the hp wars in cars it's obvious that most buyers are looking for a fast car that has great handling and that is what rwd delivers.

parkkuen

it's funny cuz FWD is the reason why I am looking to shop TL.. not BMWs... I am sorry, but I live in NJ... I can't drive RWD around here... and the New AWD LEX is still out of my league..

caball88

same reason i got the car, my last car was a bmw and it was absolutely terrible in snow.

neuronbob

I totally agree with this sentiment. The TL is an excellent example of being a "jack of all trades, master of none" in an appealing, perfectly priced car. Personally, i believe the biggest competition to the RL is not the high-buck Bimmers and Lexi, but the TL for that reason.

ghughes20

Same as me. I live in NJ, needed a daily driver that can handle the snow. RWD was not an option. I considered AWD, but too heavy, bad gas mileage. The TL was the only car for me in my budget that met most of my needs.

Legend2TL

I agree, I looked over the RL and couldn't rationalize the ~$14K price increase over a TL.

SouthernBoy

I wouldn't be too harsh on Edmunds or too worried about their review. It's true that FWD will never be the equal of RWD in terms of a performance machine. Not one of the world's finest performance machines has FWD. It just doesn't have the inherent tractiion capabilities of RWD.

That being said, virtually every article I've read arrives at the conclusion that the TL is perhaps, as good as it gets in a FWD luxury performance sedan. Not too shabby, I'd say.

jdone

The new awd Lexus IS250 will cost about the same as a new TL. However, with awd and only a bit more than 200hp don't expect a stoplight racer.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

meh....... still great ratings but if you go into read all reviews and checks JD power rating, its only 3/5 from a 4/5 in 2003

2/5 in mechanical quality???

TLTrance

I wonder would be it of equal effort, in terms of technology, cost, and time, to make the TL in rwd vs fwd?

mickey3c

I think it was a pretty fair review of the car. Good thing they did not bring up butt prints and other issues like a tranny recall for an oil jet. The engine needs more low end torque and it is time to up the HP a bit more. That is if they want to stay with the competition.

As for people who hate RWD, get snow tires... and remember that is about all you had back 27 years ago, unless you had a 4wd.

TLyoung'un

Worst Fuel Economy: 21.7 mpg

Wow, I wish i had that in my TL

MR1

I pretty much agree with their review 100%. The TL is exactly the compromise that I was looking for. BMW's are more fun to drive but the overall experience of the TL is superior imho.

Loco

The low end tq is fine for what the car is...a luxury sedan.

As far as adding more HP to it, it should be RWD before that. If they keep adding HP to the FWD version you're just going to whine about tq steer.

caball88

don't think more hp or tq for fwd would make any sense, it would be very difficult to put it to the ground effectively. the next TL has to be awd in order to continue this hp war with its competition.

mickey3c

well the older version of this engine put out max torque at 3500 not 5000 RPMs. They could have easily kept the same power curve on the motor, but the cooked trannies on the 2G made them change that. And people have made the claim before that it was tough to put power to the ground, but they are always putting more out.

as for awd, the car will have to have more hp and torque since it will take more to power an AWD car with similar or very similar performance. What if the next gen had 285 ponies, was AWD, and only in 5AT configuration...

ghughes20

Well, 27 years ago they didn't have climate control, satellite radio, ULEV emissions, etc, etc, etc. I'm not willing to give those up, so why should I live with a RWD car when I live in a state that has winter. I have nothing against RWD, it's just not practical as an every day driver for where I live. I considered AWD (G35x) , but it was too much $$$ and had worse fuel economy. Getting a RWD and having a set of snow tires for winter months would just add more to the cost.

I live 35 miles from my office. I work in the client service industry. My clients are global, they don’t care if we get 6 inches of snow in NJ. My neighbor used to have a Mustang with RWD. She worked 5 miles from her house. If it snowed she needed a ride to work and the ‘Stang sat in the driveway until the roads were totally clear. I don’t have that option.

If I lived in Arizona, that would be different.

I made my choice and have no regrets.

Legend2TL

I reread this review and two things I felt were kinda unfair.

Entry and exit : My parents are both in their 70's and my Dad has osteoporosis. Neither one has any difficulty what so ever getting in or out of my car, front or rear seats.

Handling : I drove a 5AT back to back with a G35 and a 530/545 on a closed course and found the difference in handling to be there but it was very small compared to the sort of exaggeration in the review.

However did agree on the low front air dam, that does touch down quite a bit on driveway approachs.

JetJock

(quote)
One editor has scratched the wheels on curbs more times than he would care to admit

Sounds like their editor needs some instruction using the tilt down mirrors. Their bias for the BMW is so obvious it's not journalism, it's personal opinion. The TL is still the overall winner. Funny they didn't mention BMW's legendary love of maintenance.

parkkuen

I didn't say I hate RWD... it's just not practical to have at my area of NJ as only one vehicle..... and no snowtires are going to help with RWD vehicles in snow and ice we get here... you have enuff difficult time with FWDs...

MR1

I agree, but now you may get from some people.

One good point of the article is how much they didn't spend on repairs. I hope that continues to be the case for all of us.