I've seen several posts recommending not to buy the first year production of an new model car. One post said "Never, never, never buy the first year production model".

Do these people realize that if no one bought the first year production, there would be no second year?

 

I have the first navi TL at my dealership and I STILL don't have any problems.

A first year Acura isn't a first year Ford. I don't believe Acura would sell a product until they were sure it met their standards.

 

I figure that the engineering is not too far off of the prior generation i.e the engine and 6 speed. Besides, the TL is based on the Accord platform, which is is its second model year

 

If you think about what "first year production" really means then no one who buys an '04 TL is buying a first year production car. The first year of production for the TL was 1996. The 2004 TL is a third generation vehicle. Granted there have been many changes in the car since 1996. There is a very long track record for this vehicle.

Acura is building on the success of previous years to bring all of the features that existing customers want and new features that they think the perspective TL owner will be looking for in a new car. They have made significant changes to the car but I do not think they have reinvented the wheel.

 

This 04TL is a dream-come-true. I won't be able to complain about Rev 1.0 purchases as much anymore. No significant problems yet.

In contrast, I purchased a 1982 Camaro, which was also a Rev 1.0 car. I had nothing but headaches from that car. And, the engine block or headers were cracked sometime during the first year of ownership - I just didn't figure out what the problem was until 5 years later (way out of warranty by then).

catsailr - If you're hesitating about buying, don't! This is a high quality car that you won't regret having!

 

I think most of the time there would be some minor or major problems with the first yr production cars. But over time these conflicts hopefully be fixed..

I think i can live with these minor problems.. with the TL...

 

I think there are really two factors to consider. First, how reliable do you expect the car to be (even though it is a new car) and second, will the dealer/manufacturer stand behind the car and fix the minor problems that are going to show up. I believe that the TL isn't really a completely NEW car and will have less problems than most. I also expect that Acura will fix any problems that do occur. Based on this, I have ordered mine.

 

GotJazz? I'm not hesitating. I bought mine a week ago. 3 days later rear window would not come up.

 

I think with a car like the TL, you are unlikely to have a disaster of a car, you are just slightly more likely to have a few problems that won't be in the second year, and you might have a problem that the service dept. has never seen before. By the second or third year many of the little problems are fixed. Next year's TL will most likely not have the tire and vibration issues some of this year's cars have. Of course more bugs will be worked out over time, but the question is how long do you want to wait, and how common are the problems. Right now, and I will get flamed for this, I would wait on the TL. I have one, and 2 people I know have them, all had problems. Friend of mine just test drove one, and it vibrated like crazy at highway speeds long after the tires warmed up. It's a great car, but if you don't need it right away, waiting 6 months may save you a few headaches.

 

If anyone wants real data on first year production reliability versus later years, it does exist. You can just look in the annual CR auto issue (April, and just came out for 2004, at least I have mine already). Look at the reliabilty scores for various categories for the first year of a model and then compare to other years. There's rarely any evidence that the first year has any additional problems, particularly as the car ages. (Warranty fixes the few 1st year bugs that do happen).

It's a little hard to compare, because the data is presented in a format that clearly shows how cars become less reliable as they age, and you'd have to isolate that decreasing reliability versus first-year problems. But they also provide a tool for that, which is the summary reliability data at the bottom of the table, which compares the model and year to other cars of the same year.

If there was a big first-year problem, you'd expect to see the first year of a model being relatively less reliable than subsequent years. That doesn't usually happen. Take the BMW 3 series for example. The '99 model was the first of the current generation, and it gets an overall "better than average overall reliability." So does the 2002. But 2000, 2001, and 2003 get "average". The 1998 also gets average. So the new 1999 model is currently more reliable than the LAST year of the old generation, AND some other years of the current generation. (Relative to other cars of the SAME model year, not each other).

The 04 TL won't appear in their data until next year. The 02 and 03 TL's get "average" with all prior years getting "better than average". Looking at another Acura product, the MDX, 2001 was the first year. That year along with 02 and 03 all show as better than average. No noted first year problem. Can't find it with the new RSX vs. older Integra either.

But then you can look at other vehicles like the Mercedes M-series SUV. It was terrible to start with and remains terrible. (03 actually shows "average" but based on past history, it will decline. Or maybe it took them 5 years to work out the first-year bugs). CR does note in an article that Ford tends to have problems with new or redesigned models in their first few years.


Conclusion: Don't worry about the first year thing with any quality make (basically Honda, Acura, Toyota, Lexus, Infiniti, and Mazda).

By the way, the LEAST reliable new vehicle seems to be the 2003 BMW 7-series. Runner ups are Land Rover Freelander, Jaguar X-type, Lincoln Navigator, VW Jetta and Golf, Land Rover Discovery, Mini Cooper, and Subaru Baja. Run, don't walk, away from almost any VW product. The Best for reliability are various models from the reliable makers. Toyota Land Cruiser actually has the highest rating relative to others in the same category (SUVs). Lexus LS430 also is a standout, which sort of means BMW has no excuse with the 7 series. Complexity doesn't mean automatically unreliable.

 

Hybrid, you have my vote for most useful and well written post in a long time. Thank You.

 

There's some risk in a first year build but it's never been enough to scare me. One of my cars has got some pretty sophisticated electronics that were just introduced in '04 and there haven't been any significant issues. If you want the car, I'd say go for it. Honda/Acura's pretty good overall in supporting their products. They've addressed the memory seat and tire problems pretty quickly.

 

It's also interesting to look for "known" problems in their charts. Specifically, the auto. transmission problems in TL and CL models in the last few years. The problem appears to be visible in the 01 and 02 model years, where the transmission category gets a "white" spot, which is the middle category. That category means that between 5.0% and 9.3% of the owners of TL and CL (who responded to the survey, and are CR subscribers, of course) reported a transmission problem they considered significant in the past year. That's double or more the rate of all cars averaged together, so it appears to definitely indicate a problem, particulary compared to other Asian makes. Honda Civic transmissions for the same years have an under 2% problem rate, for example.

I just looked through the data for every make and model in their listings, and didn't find a single instance of cars other than the CL/TL with a record that "bad" or worse for transmissions in the 01 plus 02 years. Some were close, and some that probably would be worse didn't have enough data to report on. It looks like some Chrysler product transmissions were pretty bad in the 00 and 01 years, but were fixed in 02.

Of course, this also means that over 90% of owners of a CL/TL did NOT have a transmission problem last year. It does provide a non-scientific reference point for the level of trouble a person assumes cars have from reading forums versus reality, however. (You'd think everybody with an older generation TL had his transmission replaced a couple of times over each year by reading forum complaints, for example).

 

Extrapolated over the 4 years of a warranty, however, you will end up with a much higher percentage of owners who experience the problem. The really unlucky ones will experience it multiple times.

And when you get out past warranty and compound the design failures with increased wearout failure rates, things get downright ugly.

Mike

 

I know/understand all the risks of having 1st year model vehicle. But I take the chance of enjoying the great car. Maybe the manufactor would use my experience to enhance their new year model or use me as their lab rats.

New cars now should be better than older ones in past years. I think the current new cars have better quality and standard, it makes ppl have less chance of having the bad ones.

If ppl worry about this, they should not buy it. But, don't say "never buy the first year production".

 

My early-VIN, first-year TL has had no major issues. On the whole, I'd say my gamble with first-year gremlins has paid off.

 

I've had my TL for a week now.....and EVERYONE should have such a great week! I love my TL....it handles wonderfully...and the engine response is awesome! What a great "first year" model this is!

 

Can't really add much, as I've only logged about 200 miles, but my February 04 build date TL has no tire vibration I've noticed. The ONLY complaint I have is that when I was just sticking the key in and twisting to start the car, sometimes the car would not start on the first try (happened three times), I have since began putting the key in the on postion and waiting a sec or two (until the VSA light goes off) and then crank, it has started quick everytime. I'm going to stick with this method for the next week, to see if the car fails to start on the 1st twist quick try, then go back to a "Normal Car Mode", put key in and twist, and see if I ever have a starting issue.
P.S. Jeez, I just re-read this and it seems confusing, but a few other TL owners may understand .
Regards,

 

Couldn't say much about the 3rd Gen. but I had nothing but problems with my '99.

Engine Stall
Front Control Arm loose
Fuel Sending Units
Sun Roof
Window Frame Trim
Cheap warping rotors

My '02 was closer to the Acura reputation. I only wish that it was built in Japan. I wouldn't mind paying the extra couple Ks.

 

I gotta love my Japan-built TL (1st generation) Reliable as hell (even through all the abuse I put it thru)

 

ok... i still remember the day i got my 99 TL. I had to wait for like 2 months or something. I was very happy and all... But about 4 months later, guess what? A 2000 TL comes with 5 Speed Automatic Transmission and some more other goodies. Granted, 99's 4 speed automatic transmission seems to be a lot more reliable than the 5 speed ones, but still... i want 5 speed auto just like any other luxury cars in the similar category (Even VW's Passat had 5 Speed back then).
Lesson Learned: Rather than getting a first year prod. car, just wait a little more and get at least a 2nd year prod. car. I have a strange feeling that AWD or RWD TLs are just a matter of time.

 

Maybe anyone trying to buy 1st year model should get it in first half of year. Otherwise, you may always face this kind of discrepancy between 1st year model and upcoming next year one.

If 05TL comes with some new features, for example, the auto-on headlight or turning signal on mirrors, perhaps, many of ppl will cry, too.

If you believe this car, whatever model years they are, has everything you want, just buy it as long/early as you can. Otherwise, please wait...

 

:lol2: Most of my cars are 1st year production models. I currently have three, a 1984 300ZX 50th Anniversary Edition, a 1990 Corvette ZR-1, and of course my 2004 TL. While they all may have had a few bugs, they are all still great cars. I also wouldn't mind having a 1970 Superbird either

 

I have had no problems with my recently purchased '04 TL.

At 600 miles, the only problem I've had is that the dealership didn't give me the key for my locking lug nuts. Oh well, I got a free detail out of the deal.

I just did a 200 mile road trip for a business meeting in the morning. That's the best my back has felt after that long of a drive in years! The seats in this car are great for me!

S/N 315XX
'04 TL Silver/Ebony/5AT/non-NAV

 

Consumer Reports seems to think the 2004 Acura TL is a great choice.