03CoupeV6

What's hard to understand is why you seem to think Honda is setting you up - building an engine with a timing belt and placing the change interval much further than the life of the belt just so you, 10k miles out of warranty, have to fork out the money for a new engine. Give me a break, this is 2005 not 1955.

By this standard of replacing stuff at little more than half-life, why even bother changing the timing belt? 125,000 miles is probably a little more than half-life for the TL, so why not send it to the junkyard at that point just so you don't have to worry about anything on it breaking as it reaches 200,000 miles?

You spend the money and have the timing belt changed at 60k miles because it is your money. If you insist on making the TL's ownership cost the maximum it can be, then you have every right to do so. Just don't call me ridiculous for voicing otherwise.

jdb8805

You won't necessarily get the same results if a belt breaks that you will if it slips.

If it slips, then (depending on how far you get out of time) you could be DRIVING the valves into the pistons.

If it breaks(unless you are doing 7000 RPMs) the valves will likely close and the cam will stop moving in that position(unless the setup is such that all valves cannot be simultaneously closed - don't know this exists -- never seen one like that).

jdb8805

One more thing --

A good mechanic is hard to come by, even at a dealership.

There's a chance that you could change it at 60k and still have problems before the 105k because someting wasn't put back just right.

I say chances are better if you don't go into the engine unless you have to. If you screw something up at 105k miles, so be it, but if you mess it up at 60k, then that's a lot worse.

I used feel like I needed to do things way in advance just to be "better to the car." One day I realized that the recommendations are there for a reason and doing it ahead of time:
1) costs more money
2) introduces the chance that something will get screwed up prematurely.

I would say changing the timing belt at 60k is analogous to a heart transplant at age 30. A little overboard for preventative maintenance.

...and yes, I will be back here whining when mine breaks at 70k....

Legend2TL

Folks, chill out a little here. Some people are asking some legit questions, and some folks are responding with some legit responds. Some you may agree with, some not just don't take it personally.

On the topic of miles and belts, I can state I've never heard of any TB failing before it's replacement mileage on a Honda/Acura. I have seen/only heard of TB's breaking after their mileage life (two I know of: 83 Prelude at ~70K miles, 86 Integra at ~80K miles).

I also have seen/heard of some folks who've gone twice their TB replacement schedule on some newer Honda/Acura's. What is still extremely difficult is predicting when they will break a tooth or snap. Timing belt technology has improved alot and they do last longer but are still expendable items as far as the engine is concerned.

On the timing chain front, the Accord, S2000, and RSX all use timing chains. According to Honda/Acura they last the life of the vehicle (whatever that is). But I do know on Mercedes and some other vehicles they need to be replaced as part of very long term preventive maintenance (100K miles?).

A cute useless trivia fact : Mercedes sell special woodruff keys (the small metal piece that aligns the timing chain spocket to the cam) that have small offsets (a few degees) to compensate for slightly stretched timing chains over the life of the chain to ensure proper engine timing.

ntaylor

Agree. Personally, I think the original question is a legit thing to ask. It isn't a matter of Honda "setting somebody up," its simply trying to do an educated risk/reward analysis as the consensus appears to be that a timing belt failure is one heck of a costly repair. And IF there were a risk of premature failiure, as a lawyer I sure as hell wouldn't rely on the recommended interval when the warranty is clearly much more limited. As was pointed out before, if Honda wanted to guaranty that the timing belt would last 105K, they could have done so. Personally, again this is my opinion, people put too much faith in the manufacturer or dealer's desire to maintain goodwill. If they do something they don't have to do, that's great, but I wouldn't rely on it.

Finally, on the faith in Honda engineers, I think this car is a great piece of equipment, but this board is also replete with recommendations about fluid changes at intervals that may be more frequent than recommended in the manual. Were the engineers wrong? Probably not, but lower total cost of ownership is also a marketing thing and engineers may be pushed by marketing to extend standard maintenance to limits that some owners personally might not be comfortable with. Concrete example: the Honda CR-V (my other car) supposedly doesn't need a rear differential fluid change until 90,000 miles. The most common knowledge on the CR-V forum is that you need to change it no later than 45K or you are asking for trouble.

fast-tl

I think that "chance" depends on whether the engine is an "interference" engine or not, and the TL engine IS. That means if the belt breaks, you may have pistons impact valves which means even MORE expense. The trend seems to be that you can get 100K easy on the TL belt. If you choose to do it earlier, even better. I plan to trade this puppy within the next few months, so I'll put that cash into my down payment instead.

Legend2TL

If you've ever seen a overhead cam multi-cylinder head out of a engine, there are always some valves that are partially opened or mostly open.
It just depends on the position of the cam.

I've only seen a couple motors in person that had a belt break and the other belt striped a couple teeth. Both looked like that photo, not pretty.

fast-tl

I was confused for a sec. The Accord I-4 uses a timing chain, but the V6, which is the basis for the TL's V6, also uses a timing belt.

Brettg

I would say you have to check other things than just the belt.
The belt may be fine, but if the water pump or the tensioner bearing
go bad, the result will be the same.
Even if you have an oil or coolant leak that gets on the belt, it could jump/fail
and your engine could be toast with damaged pistons, valves, guides, cracked head, etc.
VW also has the 105,000 mile timing belt recomendation, and they do fail before that, and since the warente is 50,000 miles, you are on your own after
that.
They had a lot of tensioner failures and redesigned it.
They also have a lot of water pump failures (plastic impeller).
The 105,000 mile bit, like the lifetime coolant and ATF is to make the car look
good as far as maintanance goes, surely the engeneers did not think
it was a good idea to run these fluids to 10 years and 300,000 miles.

I suspect honda does a bit of the same thing...

I dont know if I would PAY someone $700.00 change my belt, I would just do
it myself, so I could check things out closely.


Brett

Legend2TL

Your correct, I should have stated the 4 cylinder Accord.

I meant to say most of the 4 cylinder engines from Honda use a timing chain now and the standard Civic 4 cylinder and all V-6's use timing belts.

MR1

I dont know if I would PAY someone $700.00 change my belt, I would just do
it myself, so I could check things out closely.


Brett

Everyone keeps complaining about what it cost to have the belt changed. I watched a well trained mechanic change the belt on my Legend, he almost cried. It was way more work than the Accord. I'm not sure about our TL but suspect it may be the same. There were a lot of hard to get at parts that needed to be moved.

His experience was in no way unique, visit the Legend board and read the stories. Anyway, for those of us that keep the car, hope we decide to change the belt prior to disaster.

empathy

u can get the TB, water pump, and the other belt changed out for less than 700 easily.

maybe a couple years from now, a company might come out with a TB made with kevlar. toda makes them for certain applications, but they focus on JDM cars and since the TL isnt sold in japan, i can safely say it will never be made, unless toda decides to ship TL's over there and start racing them(which i also highly doubt will happen), but i have heard that spoon bought a bunch and shipped them over there.

u should be safe till 100k miles.

when the TB snaps, the valves will hit the pistons and it will obviously bend all of your valves and there is a chance that they might crack your pistons. the price to fix the valves is going to cost a hell of a lot less than getting the tb changed.

jdb8805

Hmm, my VR4 heads had all valves closed and it was V6, DOHC. Lining up that timing belt was a real B----.

Legend2TL

If the cam(s) are not in the cylinder head, that makes sense. Other than that I can't think of any firing order and cam timing for a I4 or V6 that would allow all valves to be closed. I could be wrong (maybe there is some firing order that allows it), but all the overhead cam cylinder head assemblies I've seen off had some valves opened.

On aligning the timing belt, yeah they can certainly be a bitch to align everything up esspecially on DOHC heads (my Integra). I've done ~20 TB changes in my life (mostly Honda/Acura's), once I did get the cam off by one tooth on a Civic and had to tear everything down again and get it aligned up. Not fun.

Legend2TL

Here's a picture of a 325 cylinder head that shows the valves open, if you look carefully you'll see some valves (like the rear most) are just starting to open while others are mostly open.

jdb8805

Been there, done that, not a pleasant feeling. Horrible sound. makes me shudder to this day -- didn't tear anything up though....

Legend2TL

The one I got off by a TB tooth was my Dad's Civic, it ran rough with poor power. Nothing was damaged also, and now I always check the alignment marks several times before putting the timing belt covers back on and use some pernament black marker on the alignment marks to make them easier to see.

MillerTime12oz

My Family switch to Camry's and Accords in 1986 due to both my parents putting high miles on cars. Had a 1986 Camry with over 200,000 with original timing belt, had a 2000 Accord with 135,000 miles original timing belt. Have a 2005 Camry with 146,000 original timing belt, have a 1999 Solora 145,000 original timing belt. Never had a timing belt break. I do not think you are wasting money on a new one at 130,000, However, I would not buy one before that. Also, my neighbor has a Volvo with 165,000 original timing belt and his father has a Ford F150 180,000 original timing belt. Now is it risky not changing them, yes! But based on never having a family member or friend have one break...I will take my chances. And yes I do read about them breaking on here and I also read a lot of dumbass stuff people do to theirs cars on here. I take care of my stuff and just put commuting miles on my car.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Revival.

Speedieguy

Just my .02 here.

My t-belt area of expertise comes from Porsche front engined water pumpers (i.e 928, 944 and and their variants).

A t-belt can fail at anytime. On my 944Turbo the factory recommended interval is 3 years or 30k miles! That being said I know of some cars that are still on their original belts (keep in mind some of these cars are >20 years old!) and are ticking time bombs! I've also seen belts go at 10k for now apparent reason (could be human error but some of the guys I know who've had this happen are real pros, certified Porsche techs, professional racers, etc.).

Changing belts at the recommended interval is for peace for mind. How much is it worth to you to increase your level of confidence that your beloved TL isn't going to leave you stranded because you thought you could wait a little longer. My TL has 93k and I'll be changing them soon.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Holy hell!! Thread is 6 years old! Congrats on your stupidity

RJNN TL

If it makes you feel better. My old TL had 110K on the original timing belt. But I racked the miles up quick. And I got on that old TL a lot!!. It was auto and modded. Nothing ever happened. I eventually traded it in before getting it replaced before buying my TL-S. Dodged that repair haha.