TLVR

Technically we are only covered for 50K miles since the timing belt falls under power train warranty. Yet the manual cheerfully states not to worry till 105K miles before changing the TB. Must be so the owners gratefully can put off this large maintenance expense of $700+ till the suggested 105K. Can you see this scenario: You have 60K miles, are out of warranty- the TB goes and your engine is toast!! Now you are looking at basically rebuilding an engine at YOUR expense.I did a search and found that TB can go much sooner than 105K. What kind of record does the TL engine have re accumulating milage on their TB before it breaks? Our cars are a large investment and we keep them way past the 50K warranty. Do you roll the dice and take chances. We currently are happy as clams with our low milage TL but this will change very soon so no use sticking our heads in the sand, right? Its pricey and I rather not deal with this either but then there is reality.How do you feel about this TB situation?

Gary (Atlanta)

I know Nissan says 105k miles on many of their models. My 300zx belt was changed at 100k (I WAS getting nervous about it) and it looked fine. I know you can't tell just by looking at it, but it sure looked like it could do a lot more miles.
I think extreme heat/cold and a lot of short trips are the biggest consideration on how the belt wears.
just my $.02.

Legend2TL

Yeah, they've really improved the time span and mileage on timing belts. One thing to remember is that timing belts have a operating life in mileage and time. Most Honda/Acura's now are 105K miles and not more than ~7 years old.

What that means is wheither you hit the mileage first or the time first you should change the belt. The time span is NOT in the manual but most Honda/Acura dealerships will use some time guideline. Over time the synthetic rubber and fibers in the belt will deteriorate, also use of the belt (as in mielage) will cause wear and tear.

FWIW, in the older Honda/Acura shop manuals and owners manual's there is nothing written about timing belt replacement. You had to replace them knowing what the limit was by calling a dealer and asking the service manager. Honda/Acura OEM belts used to be 60K miles and 5 years so the 105K miles is nice since I replace my own timing belts and water pumps.

mickey3c

Stop nit picking ... geez.. So where have you read that a TB rated for a certain time and/or mileage has gone much sooner? Make sure this is an 3G situation now... Not a 91 camry that needed to have to have it replaced at 60,000. I would expect acura to fix the problem if the belt went prematurely. They document this for a reason. So if my car was completely stock, there are no signs of abuse to the car, and my belt let go at 90K, I would expect that the car is fixed no questions asked. Are you suppose to do start worrying about it now... ? If you are worried than get it replaced sooner. Get the plugs replaced sooner as well. Not that the plugs can hurt the car, but what if one plug was inferior and there was some misfiring. Maybe that could hurt the car as well.

As for keeping the car for year and years, not everyone does that. 3 years or about 45 K is the max you should keep a car like this. As it is, you have gone through at least 2 sets of tires. Brakes are worse on the 3G so probably 2 sets of brakes as well. Then trade it in and get new. The repair costs on these cars will tend to be higher, as it is with all near luxury and luxry cars. So many things that can go wrong. If you want to buy a car and keep it, go with another car that is not so performance oriented.

MR1

105k is supposed to be a safe interval. Some have gone much longer but do so at your own risk.

hpric

Dang! since when is asking a questing "nit picking"?

Prolanman

If you go to the Acura Owners site you'll find a recommendation to replace the TB at 60k miles if you drive regulary in temps over 110F or under 20F, under Maintenance minder 4 under your MID. At the very least you should have it checked at that point. I've never heard of a belt lasting 105K miles.

I doubt that this would be covered after the 50k mile warrenty as it ususally is considered a normal wear and tear part (most belts are). Did you get a price of $700 plus from the dealer to do this? The price seems a bit on the high side for a belt and gaskets that should cost no more than $100. If it was to go then I would suggest a good mechanic outside of the dealer.

Brettg

VW also recomends the 105,000 mile timing belt replacement.
And some actualy last that long, but on the VW, other things fail
first, like the water pump (driven by timing belt) or the tensioner and or
rollers that the belt rides on.

105,000 miles is wishfull thinking on the VW, but maybe you could get
that on a Honda engine....

I personaly think its wise to do it at 80,000 along with all the tensioners and rollers, and the water pump.

Brett

mickey3c

Be careful about the water pump. Sure that means that if it goes you save on labor. But the last time I was in the shop for a TB replacement I got the crap where it looked like there was some residue around the water pump gasket and we recommend that it gets replaced with the TB since it is much cheaper. About 90days later my water pump went and when I took it to the dealer they said well the pump went.

I said the same pump that went that was replaced just 90 days ago. They checked their records and said errrrr. yeah your are right.

mickey3c

Reread the orginal poster... Belts failing prematurely and all and warranty and so forth. And that we all keep our cars. yadda yadda yadda. Stop looking for problems... and drive the dam car.

Or better yet get a G the VQ motor has a chain... But wait maybe that can fail as well and when should I get that replaced... It is suppose to last the life of the car but what is life...

you know dumb crap like that...

drive it service it and stop worrying about it... It depreciates and is worthless some day... As long as you keep that in mind you will be better off for it...

Cesci

I have a '93 4Runner with 111,600 miles and still running on the original TB (original clutch, original muffler). Dealer said to change TB about 20,000 miles ago but private mechanic I took it to said..............no worries, still sounds fine.

fast-tl

Well, now you've heard it! Mine's at 112K as we speak, and the car's running perfectly. I suppose you've also never heard of getting the water pump replaced at the same time, which also drives up the price. The timing belt isn't a piece of cake to get to, which is why the cost is so high, but couple that with water pump replacement (because the timing set is in front of it, and you may as well do that while the mechanic's in there) and the price goes up. There's someone on the forum with more than 150K on the original belt.

bluenoise

On my Mazda 626, I replaced the timing belt, but didn't want to spend the additional ~$60 to have the water pump replaced, too. Of course, two months later, the water pump died and cost me over $600 to fix. That was an expensive lesson learned.

3PUTT

i thought Nissans have timing chains?
from past experience, TB breaking on a car with AT does not cause a lot of damage. cars with MT normally get the really bad results with some valve damage and more.

normal change intervals for Tbs are in the 60K-70K mile range. i know for hondas this includes the water pump getting changed as well.

frenchnew

$700 is expensive but an engine job is going to cost a lot more moolah!!!.

As far as replacing the water pump at the same time as the timing belt, this is prescribed by Honda for most of their engines.

There are a lot of mechanics out there that will replace only the timing belt then within the next few months the water pump fails and take the timing belt out.

Results, bent valves, damaged heads and no warranty!

I heard it several times from my brother who is giving training courses on timing belt replacement.

Other items forgotten while they replace the timing belt is to look at the condition of the pulleys and tensioner if there is one in the circuit.

Better get it done right the first time then trying to save pennies and end up with a humongous repair bill.



frenchnew

MR1

I admit that I have not checked the Owners Site. I can assure you that the change interval recommended on my 94 Legend was 90-105K and the going rate was $700+-. Same interval on my 93 Honda 1.6 I4, but this one cost a little less. My Honda (employed) mechanic did also change both water pumps at the same time and told me that I'm safely conservative.

Prolanman

Well it's good for you that you've gotten this much mileage out of it and for the person with 150k on their original tb. Personally I wouldn't take the chance of leaving a timing belt in the car that long. Also belts have a tendancy to stretch out over time and the timing can go off due to this. Changing belts are a normal part of maintenance. I'll have mine inspected periodically and change it when it looks like it needs it or at no more than 75k miles. I'd rather not get stuck on the side of the road because I was too cheap to maintain my vehicle.

And yes I actually have heard of getting the water pump changed at the same time, but not always. The original post mentioned nothing about the water pump being changed in the $700 price. I'm aware of the way most belts are routed among the pulleys and that it would be easier to change the water pump while the tb is off. I've changed my fair share of belts and some water pumps over the years.

Prolanman

I'll find out when the time comes. I'll check with the recommendations and play it by ear. I can't see myself going anymore than 75k miles on the Timing Belt. I'd rather have the piece on mind knowing that the chances will be reduced that I'll get stuck roadside due to my not changing the Timing Belt. I plan on getting the extended warranty before the 4/50k for piece of mind. If the water pump goes before I hit the 7/100k mark than they can change it under warrenty.

Skifaster

All,

I had a 1990 Legend that I let go to 155,000 miles before worrying about the belt. When I did change it , the belt looked like new. I have a 2000 TL now with 123,000 on it with the original belt and water pump. I'll probably change it soon. I'm broke after putting on new rotors every 6 months and will take my chances on the belt.

My wife had a 96 accord with 210,000 miles on it and the belt went and did NO damage to the engine. My brother in law is a mechanic and works on mostly exotics. He told me that Belts liek the ones in our TL's typically go 150,00o miles and if they do go before that the chances are very slim that you will do any major damage to your motor.

youngTL

In , our recommended timing belt change is every 100 000 km (62000mi).

03CoupeV6

Kris over in the second gen section has a 2000 TL with 185,500 miles on the original belt.

Timing belt broke on a friend's 98 Camry recently and did no engine damage, but as I understand that's not always the case depending on what engine.

Legend2TL

The 96 Accord has an inference engine, meaning that if your timing belt breaks chances are valves may/will contact the pistons. The cam on your Accord may have stopped at an exact position where the valves did not extend enough to contact the pistons.

The 3Gen TL is also a inference engine with 11 to 1 compression ratio so the clearance between the pistons and valves is small. If the belt breaks chances are the engine will suffer extensive internal damage.

Here is the Gates timing belt guide that lists engines and wheither or not the engine is inference (damage to engine) or non-inference.

The odd thing about timing belts is that they are difficult at best to visually inspect. If they are cracked, fraying or have gotten oil on them it's obvious to replace them. But I've also seen some belts that snapped and the rest of the belt looked fine.

I've replaced ~20 timing belts and almost all looked great when I replaced them. Going past the recommended point of replacement is essentially gambling on $2-5K in engine damage.

Also some folks mentioned to replace the water pump and that also is very good to do for preventive maintence.

Legend2TL

Pure Adrelaline posted some great pictures in this 2G Tl thread on what a engine looks like after a timing belt slip (results for a break are the same for a inference engine).

And yes, that cylinder head, valves, pistons, connecting rods, cams, ... ain't cheap to replace.

HokieZ

+1 for changing the water pump. In fact, I'd do the power steering pump as well (not sure if this applies to the TL). My 96 Grand Cherokee just had the water pump, radiator (result of water pumpe) and power steering (5 weeks later) all fail in rapid succession. 145K miles.

bluenoise

About fifteen years ago, my buddy had the belt go in his Honda Civic while he was on the freeway. One moment he's cruising along happily down the road, the next his front wheels are locked and he's skidding to a stop. He spent months rebuilding that engine himself. It was amazing how much damage there was. I'd rather replace the belt at the recommended interval than gamble.

JERU

My 96 Maxima ran for over 130,000 miles and it had a metal timing chain good for the life of the car. I am actually surprised Acura would make us drop $700+ for a timing belt. I would pay extra (for a timing chain) not to be worried between the 50,000-104000 miles that my engine may blow a timing belt and self destruct. I don't want to know what it is going to cost me to replace the clutch disc. It cost me $700 (around 100,000 miles) for the Maxima. I guess I should start saving for that stuff now

MR1

I think I read long ago that Honda uses belts because they are quieter than chains. Chains are also not perfect as they can break or skip a link. At some point you have to do preventive maintenance or post damage repairs.

avs007

Not if you know what you are doing. Many companies have been designing their chains such that as each link engages a sprocket, another link disengages from a sprocket at the right moment, such that the noise/vibration mathematically cancel each other out.

As for Automatic trannies having less damage from snapped belts. That is not true. I had an automatic small-block chevy pushrod V8 snap it's timing chain. Bent almost every valve in the engine.

We rebuilt it ourselves, so the cost was minimal. (Unless you want to start assigning $$$ to your time, I suppose, but I found it to be fun)

JetJock

replace the belt and water pump at the recommended intervel. Just check out the pictures in Legend2TL's post and you'll see the damage that can result from a timing belt break. It's just part of the maintenance required on our car and the water pump should be replaced at the same time unless it's already been replaced. Most of the labor to replace the water pump is already done with the timing belt so the $70=/- for the pump is cheap insurance.

TLVR

Mickey 3C:
The 28 other responses to this question are appreciated for what they are, namely informative and helpful, except yours which I do not appreciate. Your response smacks of sarcasm, arrogance ,ignorance and it is offensive! Lets review: stop nitpicking, no evidence of breakage in the 3G, you expect free replacements of TB if it happens before 105K- no questions asked, keep your car for 3 years then dump it, change your plugs etc, etc.
All so self righteous, narrow minded!! FYI there are cases in the search section/Acurazine files of breakage. So I would educate myself a little first before slamming someone who tries to contribute to this forum.

Papaman677

I never changed my timing belt on my 99 Integra. It said it had to be changed at 65K I believe. I had 136K on it and nothing ever went wrong.

TBone2004

Keep in mind - the real reason for changing other stuff when you go in for a timing belt change is in order to do the timing belt change - you have to take all other belts etc. off to get at it. So it is normally done to save on Labor charges. I thought timing chains (actual chains) were old school - did not realize they still use them. Thought it was all belts now. Learn something new each day I guess. 3 years, 45k miles? c'mon - she's just starting to break in at that point - plus she is paid off in 3 - like to drive a car without a monthly payment for a few years after that - otherwise I would just lock myself into a lease or something and never actually own it.

03CoupeV6

Expect this type of response if you pose a question such as your's. Regardless of tone, Mickey is right. If a timing belt fails before Honda's 105k mile service interval under normal driving conditions, that would be a manufacturing defect and would likely be repaired free of charge by Honda.

Your paranoia is hard to understand. Honda isn't putting the 105k timing belt change interval on this car to tempt fate or to see just how far you can push it before it fails and takes the engine with it. They did engineer this car, and I don't believe it would be wrong to assume they know when this belt should be changed.

That said, if you want to waste your money and change it a full 45,000 miles in advance at 60k, then that is your right. Just be aware that you're doing so because of your own lack of confidence in Honda's judgment and engineering, not because there is anything wrong with the engine, timing belt, or maintenance schedule.

SpecialFX

I think TLVRs question is legit. Not that I'm afraid the belt will go. I've had many cars go well over 100K without replacing the belt. I've only replaced one, on an '89 CRX Si at 125k. Of course it looked like new, but they always do - except when they snap, and then it's too late. Bottom line: in most cases you cannot determine whether the belt is going to break by inspecting it.

Why does anyone assume Acura will replace a belt on an out-of-warranty car if it breaks before the recommended replacement interval? I would never make that assumption. If they wnated to warranty the belt for a longer period they would do so. Expecting it to be replaced no questions asked is naive.

Thinking about things ahead of time is not paranoid, it's smart. As long as you don't obsess about them.

hwatkins

I recently replaced timing belt in my 99TL at 104,000. I believe the 105K recommendation and will wait til then to replace in my 04TL.

fsttyms1

i agree 100%
the timing belt will last well past 105k. i have 185k miles on mine. can it break before that? sure, just like any thing els could. its just a recomended get it replaced mileage. i have a honda with over 300k on the original timing belt!

TLVR

So my paranoia is hard to understand.? You assume way too much and your expectations/demands of Acura repairing an engine at no charge because the TB failed before 105K are ridiculous. Is this stated in the TL warranty booklet? What page? Special FX is correct and we simply are pointing out that we will be on our own with the repair cost after our limited 50K warranty expires. Trying to have Acura or any other company pick up the bill would get you laughed out of the dealership. Yes, my judgement would be to replace the TB at 60K for peace of mind. That is not a crime.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

^ what he said. Honda engineers must have spent countless hours testing the TB that they will last at least 105,000 miles, not the other way around. Manufacturing defects do occur, but they are rare.

My roomate used to have a 98 Accord V6 that the TB should have been replaced at 105k miles and he didn't. The car still had the original TB when he sold it at 170k. That's almost 70% longer than the recommended interval.

My 95 Accord's TB should be replaced every 60k, per a lot of mechanics. But I'm on 90k interval and never once experienced a broken TB. BTW, F22 engines on that generation Accords (non-VTEC) are non-interference. So the TB can break and the pistons and valves won't touch.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

I agree that TB premature failure MAY NOT be covered by Honda if you're past your warranty. However, Honda/Acura has something called good will warranty. Actually, not only Honda/Acura, Lexus, and many other car companies have it, too. It's not written anywhere and it's case by case basis. If something broken that's clearly a manufacturing defect and it happens past your warranty, they can offer something for you. Mention about Goodwill warranty and most likely your service advisor will change his/her tone if he/she initially gives you an attitude. It happened to me and also my sister with her Lex.

OTOH, I also agree that changing the TB at 60k is a waste of money. It's probably just for your peace of mind, but isn't it a little too much? Do you throw away your shampoo and dishwasher soap when it's still half full? Do you also change your expensive synthetic oil at 3000 miles for your peace of mind?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not making fun of you. But my analogy is very applicable to changing your TB too prematurely. Why throw things away when they are still within their usable life?

Honda engineers and their legal department spent countless of hours to determine that the TB WILL last at least 105k or xx years on normal average American driving condition. If not, there will be a flood of lawsuits from people who have broken TB before the recommended replacement time.

Of course, it's your money, so spend it the way you like it. But IMO, it's too soon.

Just my $0.02 of course. Flame suit on.

youngTL

The TSX uses a timing chain. It's quiet because like someone else said, the physics is set up just right to cancel the noise. Contrary to popular perception, chains are NOT maintanence free. They have to be inspected and adjusted.