Dealership ATF Flush - Cost?
11-09-2006, 10:28 PM
#3
You could flush it, but Acura strongly recommends you do not flush the Acura transmission.
You are probably referring to draining the fluid and replacing it. Depending on the mileage you can do the single drain and refill if the miles are low, like 20,000, but somewhere around 30,000-40,000 you should do the triple drain and refill, which will give very good results and
Do a search on transmission for some more threads about this.
You are probably referring to draining the fluid and replacing it. Depending on the mileage you can do the single drain and refill if the miles are low, like 20,000, but somewhere around 30,000-40,000 you should do the triple drain and refill, which will give very good results and
Do a search on transmission for some more threads about this.
11-10-2006, 05:11 AM
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Thanks for all the replies. I read the threads on transmission fluid before starting this thread and was a little confused about the question of draining/refilling once (doesn't replace all fluid), draining refilling three times (replaces all fluid) and flushing (not sure of difference between flushing and 3x drain).
I do know that with 53,000 miles on the TL and having just written a check for $2,000 to replace the transmission on my wife's 2002 Civic I want to replace all the fluid in my TL. I've done nothing with the transmission fluid in the TL to date because the manual didn't require anything until 60,000 miles under harsh conditions (mine aren't harsh) or 90,000 under normal conditions. Fortunately, I learned on this board that it's a mistake to wait that long.
Several days ago, I called my dealer and told the service advisor that I wanted to replace all the fluid. He said they could do a "flush" which would cost $139. He said that would be only a little more than the single drain/refill, which would be $85.00. I'm confused because he definitely used the word "flush" but I'm being told in this thread that Acura doesn't recommend a flush. What am I missing?
I'm also confused about whether the TL transmission has a filter. Some posters on other threads have said that it does not, while others claim it does. I did see a page from the service manual indicating that there is a filter. If so, I assume I should make sure that gets changed as well.
I do know that with 53,000 miles on the TL and having just written a check for $2,000 to replace the transmission on my wife's 2002 Civic I want to replace all the fluid in my TL. I've done nothing with the transmission fluid in the TL to date because the manual didn't require anything until 60,000 miles under harsh conditions (mine aren't harsh) or 90,000 under normal conditions. Fortunately, I learned on this board that it's a mistake to wait that long.
Several days ago, I called my dealer and told the service advisor that I wanted to replace all the fluid. He said they could do a "flush" which would cost $139. He said that would be only a little more than the single drain/refill, which would be $85.00. I'm confused because he definitely used the word "flush" but I'm being told in this thread that Acura doesn't recommend a flush. What am I missing?
I'm also confused about whether the TL transmission has a filter. Some posters on other threads have said that it does not, while others claim it does. I did see a page from the service manual indicating that there is a filter. If so, I assume I should make sure that gets changed as well.
11-10-2006, 06:42 AM
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Generally a flush is when they connect the transmission lines to a machine and they remove all of the old fluid and install new fluid at the same time. This method is better than draining it several times. It allows all of the fluid in the tranny and torque converter to be replaced. I'd still ask to ensure the filter gets replaced.
I haven't looked at my car closely but there tipically are transmission lines running up to the cooler near or at the radiator.
Personally I wouldn't do the "triple drain" method. It is still wasting some of your new fluid and your mixing old fluid with new. There are better ways of doing this.
I haven't looked at my car closely but there tipically are transmission lines running up to the cooler near or at the radiator.
Personally I wouldn't do the "triple drain" method. It is still wasting some of your new fluid and your mixing old fluid with new. There are better ways of doing this.
11-10-2006, 07:23 AM
#7
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Per a mechanic I talked to at Acura last night (which is a friend of mine) said the tranny on the 3rd gen TL can not be flushed. There is no external cooler to remove lines from.
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11-15-2006, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SodaLuvr
How did it go?
RonA, I'm wondering where you saw that Acura doesn't recommend flushing the 3g transmissions. I haven't seen that anywhere and the service advisor is making no attempt to talk me out of it. I'm a little worried because you've been on this board a long time and know your stuff. I don't want to make a mistake here.
11-15-2006, 09:23 AM
#12
Originally Posted by KevinDGP
RonA, I'm wondering where you saw that Acura doesn't recommend flushing the 3g transmissions. I haven't seen that anywhere and the service advisor is making no attempt to talk me out of it. I'm a little worried because you've been on this board a long time and know your stuff. I don't want to make a mistake here.
If they mean a triple drain and refill when they say flush, then go for it, but if they are going to hook up a machine and flush it (which I am not sure can be done) then I would tell them to just do the triple drain and refill, which means they drain, drive the car, drain, drive, and then drain again.
This will not get all of the old fluid out, of course, but it has been proven to be very effective in Honda transmissions.
11-15-2006, 09:47 AM
#14
Safety Car
If there are no external hoses on the transmission it is impossible to hook up a machine for a flush. I did not see any on my 06 TL when I did the change. The 2nd gens could because they had external hoses.
11-15-2006, 11:26 AM
#16
Originally Posted by XS2K
"drain, drive the car, drain, drive, and then drain again."
Hopefully somewhere in this sequence is the word "refill".
Hopefully somewhere in this sequence is the word "refill".
11-15-2006, 05:30 PM
#17
Moderator
Originally Posted by KevinDGP
I had to postpone it until Thursday (tomorrow). I did talk to the service advisor who said it absolutely is possible to flush the 3g transmission. He also said there is no serviceable filter. He said the filter is actually a screen that will get cleaned from the pressure of the flush. I'll post an update on Thursday.
RonA, I'm wondering where you saw that Acura doesn't recommend flushing the 3g transmissions. I haven't seen that anywhere and the service advisor is making no attempt to talk me out of it. I'm a little worried because you've been on this board a long time and know your stuff. I don't want to make a mistake here.
RonA, I'm wondering where you saw that Acura doesn't recommend flushing the 3g transmissions. I haven't seen that anywhere and the service advisor is making no attempt to talk me out of it. I'm a little worried because you've been on this board a long time and know your stuff. I don't want to make a mistake here.
It's possible to flush a 3G transmission. There is a huge heat reducer unit with a gigantic hose. AFAIK, BG has an adapter for its flush machine which will fit the odd sized hose; I know someone off another forum who had a BG Transmission Flush done on his 04 TL with AMSOIL ATF at a dealership.
There are two reasons Acura does not want their units to be flushed. First, they wanted that magnetic on the drain plug to be cleaned, which is especially important considering that most units, if ever serviced, aren't serviced until 50k+ miles, which by that time, the magnet dirty. Second, quick lube shops do not use the genuine Honda ATF-Z1, and Honda only recommends their own fluid, which is another reason why.
11-18-2006, 08:16 AM
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Well, the dealership went ahead and flushed my tranny on Thursday. The cost was $130.
Soda, I actually let the adviser read your post. He said he had never heard that Acura doesn't recommend the flush. He told me the flush is better than the 3x drain because it gets rid of all the fluid, whereas a 3x drain still leaves some of the old stuff. He also said they would pull the plug and remove all the shavings. Of course, they refilled with the Honda fluid. The car drives fine, though it drove fine before the change. At least we now know for sure that a flush can be done.
Soda, I actually let the adviser read your post. He said he had never heard that Acura doesn't recommend the flush. He told me the flush is better than the 3x drain because it gets rid of all the fluid, whereas a 3x drain still leaves some of the old stuff. He also said they would pull the plug and remove all the shavings. Of course, they refilled with the Honda fluid. The car drives fine, though it drove fine before the change. At least we now know for sure that a flush can be done.
11-18-2006, 11:53 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by KevinDGP
Well, the dealership went ahead and flushed my tranny on Thursday. The cost was $130.
Soda, I actually let the adviser read your post. He said he had never heard that Acura doesn't recommend the flush. He told me the flush is better than the 3x drain because it gets rid of all the fluid, whereas a 3x drain still leaves some of the old stuff. He also said they would pull the plug and remove all the shavings. Of course, they refilled with the Honda fluid. The car drives fine, though it drove fine before the change. At least we now know for sure that a flush can be done.
Soda, I actually let the adviser read your post. He said he had never heard that Acura doesn't recommend the flush. He told me the flush is better than the 3x drain because it gets rid of all the fluid, whereas a 3x drain still leaves some of the old stuff. He also said they would pull the plug and remove all the shavings. Of course, they refilled with the Honda fluid. The car drives fine, though it drove fine before the change. At least we now know for sure that a flush can be done.
The most important part is that the correct fluid was used, genuine Honda ATF-Z1. The second most important part is that the plug was pulled and the shavings were cleaned. I could care less about the rest.
In addition, there WAS an Acura service bulleting warning against the usage of flush machines for servicing, here:
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/B060200.PDF
But my personal opinion is that provided the plug is cleaned, and the correct fluid is used, it really isn't a big deal.
12-30-2006, 12:39 AM
#20
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okay..I am a service manager for a large automotive repair shop...
We run the BG machine....it is TOTALLY safe to use on ANY transmission because it uses the pressure of the cars transmission to run...old style flush machines used shop air pressure and would incidently cause any metal particles to cause more damage than good...
with an Automatic on a TL, there are no external cooler lines...all it is is a drain and refill...you can check with ALlDATA and Mitchell systems as well and they will tell you the same...
you can do this very easily...
1) remove the battery cover and find the trans dipstick./...that is where you will fill the trasnmission...
2) get under the vehicle or put it on a lift.
3) remove the plate under the transmission....there are 6 plastic clips and 2 screws...sometimes the clips break so go get some extra from the dealer before starting...
4) there isa drain plug on the rear driver corner or the transmission...it'll be blue in color ...drain from there...you'll need a 3/8 ratchet to do so...with no extension...it's a tight area...you might want to get a new metal crush washer for the drain plug as well or do as I do and use "the Right Stuff" gasket silicone sealer and put a nice bead on the plug....this stuff is great, not solueable in any fluid, and is sensor safe
5) after draining for a good 10-15 minutes....clean off the drain plug, replace plug
6) grab a skinny funnel and put approximately 2.9-3.1 quarts of fluid in the transmission dipstick hole....you can use ANY sythetic ATf that is compatible with Honda Zt...I recommend AMSoil or BG ATF
7) put the dipstick back the tube, turn the car on and leave it running until it gets to normal operating temperature
8) once it's at temperature, turn the car off and within 60-90 seconds check the dipstick again....add fluid accordingly...
9) put everything back together and drive happily
We run the BG machine....it is TOTALLY safe to use on ANY transmission because it uses the pressure of the cars transmission to run...old style flush machines used shop air pressure and would incidently cause any metal particles to cause more damage than good...
with an Automatic on a TL, there are no external cooler lines...all it is is a drain and refill...you can check with ALlDATA and Mitchell systems as well and they will tell you the same...
you can do this very easily...
1) remove the battery cover and find the trans dipstick./...that is where you will fill the trasnmission...
2) get under the vehicle or put it on a lift.
3) remove the plate under the transmission....there are 6 plastic clips and 2 screws...sometimes the clips break so go get some extra from the dealer before starting...
4) there isa drain plug on the rear driver corner or the transmission...it'll be blue in color ...drain from there...you'll need a 3/8 ratchet to do so...with no extension...it's a tight area...you might want to get a new metal crush washer for the drain plug as well or do as I do and use "the Right Stuff" gasket silicone sealer and put a nice bead on the plug....this stuff is great, not solueable in any fluid, and is sensor safe
5) after draining for a good 10-15 minutes....clean off the drain plug, replace plug
6) grab a skinny funnel and put approximately 2.9-3.1 quarts of fluid in the transmission dipstick hole....you can use ANY sythetic ATf that is compatible with Honda Zt...I recommend AMSoil or BG ATF
7) put the dipstick back the tube, turn the car on and leave it running until it gets to normal operating temperature
8) once it's at temperature, turn the car off and within 60-90 seconds check the dipstick again....add fluid accordingly...
9) put everything back together and drive happily
12-30-2006, 11:49 AM
#22
Safety Car
Originally Posted by jordan0806
with an Automatic on a TL, there are no external cooler lines...all it is is a drain and refill...you can check with ALlDATA and Mitchell systems as well and they will tell you the same...
12-30-2006, 02:31 PM
#24
Safety Car
There is a drain and fill hole on the 3rd gen transmission. You drain, then measure what came out and refill it back up with that amount. Do it 3-4 times and you will get about 90% of it changed. I did that with Amsoil and its been great since. On the last fill, just keep filling it till it reads on the dipstick normal. You will need to start the car and switch between gears between fills for about 5 minutes. There is a HOW-TO on this site somewhere.
12-30-2006, 02:53 PM
#25
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They recommend against flushes for 2G I know that much. Are trannys are so crappy that apparently it makes things worse then it already is. You guys are lucky to have trannys you know can last forever.
12-30-2006, 11:57 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by PiperG
Hey Jordan, so there is no fill hole on our 3rd gens? We use the dipstick hole? Was going to go Amsoil in my '06, and was just wondering how to fill.
12-31-2006, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jordan0806
the easiest and bets way is to fill it through the dipstick tube....
12-31-2006, 07:32 AM
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Sorry to be getting back to this thread so late.
I would post the invoice, but I don't see any way to attach files. Anyway, the invoice says "Perform B.G. major transmission flush." I'm totally confused at this point. I really challenged the service writer prior to doing the work based on this thread (in fact I printed the thread, took it with me and let him read it) and he said (a) the 05 TL tranny can be flushed, and (b) he had never heard a recommendation from Acura that it not be done. He has been a writer at the Acura dealership for quite a while and seems pretty knowledgeable, so I don't know what to think.
All I really care about at this point is that I have fresh fluid in the tranny and that no damage was done by whatever they did.
I would post the invoice, but I don't see any way to attach files. Anyway, the invoice says "Perform B.G. major transmission flush." I'm totally confused at this point. I really challenged the service writer prior to doing the work based on this thread (in fact I printed the thread, took it with me and let him read it) and he said (a) the 05 TL tranny can be flushed, and (b) he had never heard a recommendation from Acura that it not be done. He has been a writer at the Acura dealership for quite a while and seems pretty knowledgeable, so I don't know what to think.
All I really care about at this point is that I have fresh fluid in the tranny and that no damage was done by whatever they did.
12-31-2006, 10:45 AM
#30
Safety Car
I have been told by a Acura Mechanic friend that it can't, I also heard it here you can't, and if there are no external hoses like my 06 TL has, it can not be done. They charged you that and probably only did a drain and fill.
12-31-2006, 11:07 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
No, there is a bolt to remove on the transmission top that is made for fill. It is THE BEST way to do it. Not the dipstick tube.
it's also alot easier to use the fill hole instead of the dipstick tube. most places do not carry a funnel with such a small neck
01-01-2007, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by KevinDGP
Sorry to be getting back to this thread so late.
I would post the invoice, but I don't see any way to attach files. Anyway, the invoice says "Perform B.G. major transmission flush." I'm totally confused at this point. I really challenged the service writer prior to doing the work based on this thread (in fact I printed the thread, took it with me and let him read it) and he said (a) the 05 TL tranny can be flushed, and (b) he had never heard a recommendation from Acura that it not be done. He has been a writer at the Acura dealership for quite a while and seems pretty knowledgeable, so I don't know what to think.
All I really care about at this point is that I have fresh fluid in the tranny and that no damage was done by whatever they did.
I would post the invoice, but I don't see any way to attach files. Anyway, the invoice says "Perform B.G. major transmission flush." I'm totally confused at this point. I really challenged the service writer prior to doing the work based on this thread (in fact I printed the thread, took it with me and let him read it) and he said (a) the 05 TL tranny can be flushed, and (b) he had never heard a recommendation from Acura that it not be done. He has been a writer at the Acura dealership for quite a while and seems pretty knowledgeable, so I don't know what to think.
All I really care about at this point is that I have fresh fluid in the tranny and that no damage was done by whatever they did.
What you can do is grab a Dealer Service printout on how to "flush" the transmission fluid out of your car...also, if he has Mitchell or AllData..have him print out the procedure to flush your transmission....if he cannot provide you with proper evidence that they HAD to use the BG machine to flush your transmission then you have a case with your local Bureau of Automotive Repair....
Also, ask him how much fluid did you actually flush?...the BG machine hold 16 quarts of fluid...our vehicles only take a max of 7.5 (i think) if they do a true flush....it's only 3 quarts with a drain and refill....Also question him on the fluid he used and the amount....
In California, it is illegal to charge someone for a service that either Cannot or Does not need to be performed on a vehicle....it will be easy for you to prove that the vehicle 1) does not take 16 quarts of fluid which they should have to produce the amount and type of fluid they used...2) that the vehicle does not have cooling lines to use the BG machine for a flush....all you need to do is show him your owner's manual which (i haven't looked yet) should tell you the amount of fluid in the transmission which is well under the 16 quarts which gets used in the BG machine....for which he should have used either Honda fluid or BG Universal ATf synthetic...
AS a consumer, you have the RIGHT to question the service manager on all of these facts...if he cannot produce any of them and especially if your paperwork excludes the amount of fluid and type, you can get all your money back and have them perform the correct service for free minus the cost of fluid........at leats in California that's how it works...
01-01-2007, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by flvol77
JMO - The best way to fill it is through the bolt that says ATF - go to the garage and there is a write up how to change your ATF - my TL has 23k and I changed it yesterday - took about an hour (maybe less) There was a lot of metal shavings on the bolt and the ATF looked as though it needed to be changed - I will change it again in 10k and then at 40k I will do the three fill process -
thank you for this information...I stand corrected on the fill point and find it more useful in the future...just goes to show how long I have owned my car...
thanks
01-02-2007, 04:39 PM
#34
Any idea why my dealer would keep telling me doing a drain/refill is not recommended until its time? In a few days I have them doing my oil, rotation and my pully, and told them to replace my belt as they doing pully anyway (I like to be safe) and said I want a tripple drain/refill and he said Honda/Acura recommends that not be done until scheduled time, said it could cause problems down the road?
Everyone else I have asked said thats crazy and I agree... I understand why a FLUSH is not good always, but a drain and refill, wtf? lol
Everyone else I have asked said thats crazy and I agree... I understand why a FLUSH is not good always, but a drain and refill, wtf? lol
01-02-2007, 05:04 PM
#35
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If you can wait on the service effort (about 30 minute job, you might want to consider having it done at any Honda dealership for the $39.95 price tag. They do it the EXACT same way (mehtods, and fluid) Acura does and it qualifies as "authorized" Honda/Acura service in the event of any issues in the future. Save yourself over $50 and take it to the Honda dealership (unless you simply want to get a loaner and then go to Acura). And, YES, I am talkign about the tranny fluid change and NOT about a standard oil change.
01-02-2007, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BigB2k5
Any idea why my dealer would keep telling me doing a drain/refill is not recommended until its time? In a few days I have them doing my oil, rotation and my pully, and told them to replace my belt as they doing pully anyway (I like to be safe) and said I want a tripple drain/refill and he said Honda/Acura recommends that not be done until scheduled time, said it could cause problems down the road?
Everyone else I have asked said thats crazy and I agree... I understand why a FLUSH is not good always, but a drain and refill, wtf? lol
Everyone else I have asked said thats crazy and I agree... I understand why a FLUSH is not good always, but a drain and refill, wtf? lol
I wouldn't know why your dealer would say that...it's like saying NOT to change your oil but every 7500 miles using Mobil 1 extended.....Yes, it can go longer but it doesn't hurt anything by changing it sooner...you're extending the life of the fluid....
there is NO reason it would cause a problem..I would ask for documentation on this...I would change it anyways.
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