I got the dreaded Check Engine light on the way to work this morning. I called the dealer to schedule service, who said they would need the car for at least an entire day to diagnose and correct the cause. I said fine, no problem, but I'd need a loaner He needed a week to get me one, which is perfectly understandable. He says as the Check Engine LED lights up in two colors: yelllow, indicating a something minor, and I can drive the car all I want, or red, indicating a situation that warrants immediate attention. Has anyone else been advised to drive the car all they want with a yellow Check Engine light?

 

Um...a week to find a loaner is not acceptable at all....tell him to call Enterprise and get you a car because you don't feel comfortable driving around with the light on.

 

ditto, don't want to cause more damage. if he can't supply a loaner then he should get you a rent a car.

 

Last week I went for a scheduled service to the local Acura dealer, and they didn't have a loaner, so they got me a rental car. I do not really see why they do need a whole week...

 

the check engine light doesnt display red. it is either CONSTANTLY lit yellow, or if there is a SERIOUS PROBLEM, or danger in damaging something immediately, it will FLASH!!! they will prolly have to replace your ECM (electronic module) to fix the problem. Plan on it being in there overnight!

P.S. Waiting a week for a loaner is more than reasonable I think. Remember, dealerships dont HAVE to provide you with a "loaner" unless the car is kept overnight under warranty.

 

Thanks. Prior to reading your post I checked with a different advisor as well as a service manager. They checked with techs, who all concur with you that the light does not display red, which means the original advisor was full of ... i'll say beans. I consider it potentially incompetent to encouraging me to drive around for a week on an undiagnosed check engine light.

I can understand if all of their loaners are currently out on such short notice, but blowing smoke up my behind that way is (IMO) inexcusable. Up until today, I'd always received first rate service from this dealer.

 

A lot of car experts (columnists, internet sites, books etc.) do suggest it's OK to drive a few days with the check engine light on. But if YOU'RE ready to bring the car in, then why should you have to wait? Loaners or rentals are pretty standard for Acura. Needing a week to set it up is ridiculous.

 

Not necessarily true. When I got my TL the salesman told me that the dealership would provide me a loaner for any service except a simple oil change, for the entire time I have the car. Although I don't have that in writing, I consider that a verbally-binding promise.

Therefore, if I were suddenly told I could not get a loaner, I'd start making phone calls - first the service department manager, then the dealership manager, then the owner, then Acura regional, etc. I doubt I'd get very far up that chain before encountering someone who would make sure I got a loaner.

Now I suppose within the context of that agreement the dealership has the right to say it will take them a week to get the loaner, provided the servicing can wait that long. For a lot of routine things that would be reasonable. For a check engine light, I don't think so.

 

I believe the Acura 4/50 basic warranty includes free loaner/rental car with service (not basic oil change) but all others. Right. I think Infiniti offers that?

 

i'm pretty sure (just as MOST manufacturers) that in you read the fine print, their "loaner" policy only allows for rental/loaner for OVERNIGHT WARRANTY visits only. Most dealerships will go the extra mile and provide a loaner for services that do not require overnite visits...especially if you bought the car from the same dealership you are getting it serviced at. BMW was very good about always giving me a 745i loaner when my 745 was in the shop (which was seemingly every other damn week).

 

UminChu,

Do you remember what kind of situation your MIL was flashing? In certain RPM or particular driving conditions?

Thanks.

 

It activated and remained on, steady (as opposed to flashing), at idle, in all gears, at all speeds and/or all RPM.

I went straight to the dealer after work. They hooked it up for diagnosis and advised me that it was a faulty air-fuel ratio sensor, and they didn't have the parts in stock. They would overnight them in, it was safe to drive overnight, but continuing to drive it for any length of time with the bad sensor could cause the catalyic converter to foul prematurely. I agreed to bring it back tomorrow, no problem, and he asks for a few minutes to do the paperwork.

He comes back claiming the sensor is back ordered with an indefinite delay. I ask if he can narrow it down to a few days, a week, a month, any kind of ballpark estimate. He says no way to even guess. I ask his suggestion for a next step. He says take it home, they'll call when the part comes in. I ask about the catalytic converter; he responds "What about it?". I remind him that he's just cautioned me that overnight is fine, but continuing to drive it for some unspecified length time on the bad sensor could lead to a fouled converter. He says "That's true, but I don't have any loaners." I suggested we keep the originally scheduled appointment, I'll take the loaner then, and should one happen to free up sooner, I'd appreciate first consideration for it. He says that since I'd agreed to come in today, they'd already cancelled next week's appointment and rescheduled the loaner to someone else. I ask him for another suggestion. He again suggests that I continue to drive my car and come back whenever they're able to procure the required parts. I ask again about fouling my converter or shortening it's service life, and he says yes, that might happen. I ask for an extension to the converter warranty. He apologizes and declines, saying that's not possible. I suggested we bring the service manager into the discussion; perhaps he knows of other options, possibly renting a loaner until one of theirs frees up. He says that won't be necessary, asks me to please wait another moment, and walks away to consult with the other service advisor. A few minutes later, they have now found a brand new loaner for me that just came online today. He sets it up, and within five or ten minutes, I'm driving home in a TSX with their loaner stickers on all the windows and 6 miles on the odo.

I'm really glad he and I worked it out without arguing or raising our voices. At the same time, I was, and still remain, quietly annoyed that all he really wanted was to just get rid of me without even trying to do the right thing. Why did we have to do this whole dance at all? The loaner was there all along, so what was the point in jerking me around over it?

I don't really want to create a big deal out of this. He obviously wants to keep the service manager out of it (I suspect there may have been fallout over the ridiculous story about a red check engine light). I'm thinking that fortunately, I have a loaner on short notice, but my car still isn't fixed so I don't want to alienate these guys. I'm not very impressed with this guy, but maybe I should just leave him alone to do it his way and just let things play out.

Am I looking at this all wrong?

 

I cant believe you are getting this crappy service from Acura. They are know for their customer service and satisfaction. I also believe under the warranty, they OWE you a loaner or rental. I would still take this to the service manager and tell him how disappointed you are!!!!!

 

Very well done UminChu, in my humble opinion I think you handled your situation perfectly. When is Acura going to wake up and realize that the customer service does not end when you purchase a car but only begins? I have yet to bring in my car for service but the overall feel that I get when I am at an Acura dealership is somewhere in between a Toyota dealership and a Lexus dealership. Before buying an Acura I was considering an ES330. I went into a Lexus dealership to check one out and it was by far the most enjoyable car negotiation session that I have had. If it wasn’t for the outstanding reviews from CR and some of the people on this board I would be sitting in a Lexus right now. Not to mention the test drive! It was the first time I ever felt that I HAD to get this car feeling, and I loved it.

Anyways, once again, very well done.

 

At the moment, I doubt that I will, at least not yet. I think for now I'll just sit back and see what happens. I'd rather let them fix my car properly of their own initiative, intervening only if absolutely necessary. I prefer to keep them on my side, if possible. I have four years of warranty to live through with these people, I'd hate to make enemies of them in the first three months. Having busted the guy to his boss over his bs red engine light story, that may already be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part.

 

Thanks a lot. This is the second time I've bought from this dealer, and this is the first problem I've encountered with this car. Any and all service issues with my old car were always handled quickly, efficiently, and resolved the first time. They never gave me any crap over a loaner before, I'm really surprised at all these theatrics. The service reps have all changed since then, I guess not for the better (at least not this time). Too bad.

On an off topic note, I grew up near you, went to Monroe and CSUN before moving on. I still have a lot of family there and I visit every so often. I was just out there in January. Small world, eh?

 

... on the "Bad Dealership Experience" thread and NAME NAMES.

We are forming an Acura owner's association. We will publisize the good and the bad so that people can make informed decisions on where to buy their cars and where to take them for service.

Put a spotlight on the turkeys! :ar15:

 

I think for now, I'd prefer to see how long it takes them to return my car, and how well it's fixed. At this point, my car's problem is a very minor one; there are a lot of owners posting far more serious, annoying, or ongoing issues.

Other than yesterday, I've always recieved top notch service from this dealer. I'm not ready to label all that as irrelevant, ancient history, or elevate this one incident into blanketly advising others to stay away. Thanks for the concern though, I very appreciate this forum's support.

 

I had the "check engine" light come on and stay on during start-up the other morning. I turned the car off, started it back up, and since then the problem has not returned. I am assuming it was just a glitch or anomoly as my car runs great. Has anyone else had this same situation?

 

My engine light came on for 4 days and then turned off again(checked the gas cap thing on the first day). I don't know why. At first I was worried, but my car has been to the dealer several times (for brake light"twice", seat memory, and a rattle, and body damage) so I just let it ride. Maybe sounds stupid, but I do not have time to keep going to the dealer. Luckily, it turned off of it's own accord.

 

You didn't care what caused it?

 

Service rep is a high turnover field. I had a relative who did it for years, and I had no idea how stressful the job is. Plus the money is just OK, and that's if you bust your ass.

The manufacturers and dealers all know this, of course. Some have done a better job of setting up service rep training so that no matter how often they have to plug new people into the system, customer satisfaction is always good.

Acura has a reputation as a manufacturer that does not do so well in this regard. But, some of their dealerships do very well on their own. Lexus and Infiniti have better reps as manufacturers, but of course some of their dealers are lousy anyway.

The end result is that there are more customer service complaints overall about Acura service nationwide than some other top brands. So if you have an Acura dealer that does right by you, it makes sense stick with them. If not, try another.

UminChu - I agree you are handling this right. This dealer has evidently done OK by you in the past, so hopefully this will be a one-time lapse on their part. If not, fighting them may not be worth it if there is another Acura dealership you can try instead.

 

The CEL on my '01 CL used to go on and off regularly, like 3-4 times a year. Each time it came on I would call the dealer and schedule an appointment, but a few days later, always before my appointments, the light would go off and I would cancel the appointment. Routine services never revealed a problem (the light was never on during one of them) and the car drove fine for three years.

The last time the light was on was about a month before I turned in the car, and sure enough it went out again after a couple of days. But in the last couple of weeks I had the car I noticed the exhaust smelled really bad, liked burned rubber. They say that most times the CEL has something to do with the exhaust system, so who the heck knows what was going on in that car.

 

uminchu, forgive me for not reading all the replies, so if someone else already mentioned this explanation, my apologies. Here's my story, and it might apply to you as well...

My check engine light has come on (flashing) about five times now in the last few months and each time it flashed for about 15 seconds and then stopped. Each time this has happened it has been during hard driving, where the car may have been close to redline shifts. The reason/explanation from my service manager is that the computer cuts off the fuel momentarily if you do this kind of driving, and the check engine light flashes like mine has done. If this is the type of thing you are seeing, it is normal. I had the car checked at two different dealerships...one in LA and one in Vegas and both showed nothing in the computer's memory of any note.

So before you drop your car off and go through all the hassle just to find out there's nothing wrong, ask yourself if my situation sounds similar to yours.

Hope this helps you, or maybe someone else on this thread.

 

Maybe you should learn how to spell "publicize" first. :lol2:

 

accuraaddict:
I think that they are blowing smoke in your case as well. I've redlined two times by accident, the fuel cut-off engaged and there was no check engine flash or anything.
The only time where the light came on was due to a software problem. took 15 minutes to fix.
If I had this problem, I would drop the car off at the dealer, and get the clock running on the lemon law. A check engine light is definately something that affects the performance/operation of the vehicle. If they want me to continue driving with the car like this, I would ask Acura to put it in writing with an extended warranty on the cats.
I'd rather live without a car for 30 days and get a new one than ruin the cats and have to pay to get them replaced.
Additionally, if you leave your car at the dealer, you name goes on a red-tag priority for the backordered part.

 

acuraddict,

I got the similar thought as rkilian said above.

First of all, I remember your car is one of the early-built 04TL, which should do the software reload to update the ECU program, which fails to properly control/operate engine and makes MIL ON occassionally. The new update would correct its too-sensitive threashold and provide the new program to monitor your ECU/engine/car conditions. If this software update is unable to eliminate problems, the crank shaft sensor? or coil packs may need to be replaced, too.

Anyway, the MIL ON in always abnormal.

Second, what is the hard driving condition? Redlining or driving it fast with high RPM? I agree the only cut-off fuel is happened in redlining, and the MIL should not be ON in any circumstances. Or, extremely, MIL will be on when conditions of roads/environment are very critical and dangerous to the engine.

IMHO, maybe you're already done your software update and the car is still perfect. I just really cannot believe your dealers would say it's normal, something like that. (In November, my stupid dealer ever told me that MIL ON is NORMAL. After one week, he apologized to me for not recognizing this problem, and told me that Acura has instructed how to fix this issue. Then, my MIL is never ON again.)

:facelick:

 

My scenario was quite the opposite. My light went on as I was backing out of the driveway and has remained lit ever since.

I'm thinking along the same lines as the other guys about your car. There's nothing normal about a flashing check engine light, that could be a sign of real trouble. Pursuing this condition in the present could pay bigger dividends to your car's long term health, particularly if you drive your car aggressively on a regular basis.

 

I've had the check engine light come on once and it happened when I leaned on my car a bit and got the RPM's up near red-line. It flashed for what could have been 15 seconds and went off. It hasn't happended again (but I haven't pressed the RPM's over 6K since it happended).

- Shemp

 

At first, Yes. I just got tired of leaving work for the car. I presumed it was probably the 02 sensor. Now I guess I'll never know because it hasn't happened since. I had already made an appointment with the dealer to correct the seat memory issue so I thought I would have them look at it then.

 

I've had the same CEL issues that most of you have probably experienced. It would flash in the higher RPM range then go away. One day I guess I had a little bit too much wheelspin making a turn and the CEL flickered and stayed on. I scheduled an appointment at Cush Acura Escondido a week later, but the day before the appointment, the light turned off. The dealer said they would check for codes anyway and they reported 2 codes being thrown which were fixed by updating the ECM. I also got my seat memory module replaced at the same time, and all of this was done in about a day. Since then, I haven't experienced any problems. In fact, the car seems like a beast now compared to the wimpy TSX they loaned me. But boy did I have a lot of fun in it before I gave it back!

 

Here's a cool gadget that might be worth checking out for those with persistent CEL problems:

http://www.autoxray.com/products.aspx

It's a bit pricey but looks fun.

 

Nice find, but $699 = ouch.

 

True.

There's also a much cheaper model, though:
http://www.autoxray.com/products.asp...scanners&id=31

To be honest I haven't investigated enough to know what the differences are.

 

Rather than spending a couple of hundred bucks on this you can just take your car to any AutoZone. They have a scanner and will read the ODBII codes for your for free. They will also reset the ODBII so you can see if the problem reappears.

Unfortunatly after 1600 miles my Check Engine Light came on today. It flashed briefly yesterday after running close to redline for a few seconds (not high enough to make the fuel cutoff kick in). Then today I was running in the 5-6,000 RPM range (enjoying the VTEC) and it came on and stayed on.

Checked the gas cap, nice and tight....

I plan to take it to Autozone tomorrow and get them to read and reset it. If it comes back on I will take it to the dealer. At least I will know if they are BS'ing me or not when they tell me what they found..

Anyone have a similar issue/resolution?

 

It would seem resonable to me that if the part isn't available in a reasonable amount of time, they should just pull one out of a loaner car or new car on the lot to get you going - I would definately keep that in mind the next time I was ready to buy a new car if the dealer went the extra mile. I've seen this as a trend lately that dealers never seem to have the part in stock - it keeps their overhead low but certainly doesn't value your time bringing the car back to the dealer twice for one problem.

 

Normally, MIL should not be ON. If this continues, you may have to check with your dealer. Issues could be caused by sensors since your newer VIN 04TL has updated ECU software already.

 

AcuraAddict: That rep is BS'ing you. I had the blinking light issue from the moment I drove off the lot on October 7th.

Sure enough, you take it in and they can't read any stored codes. Turns out OBDII has items called stored codes, and instantaneous codes that don't store. The service shop had to plug in the portable OBDII reader and go drive it, floor it, cause the flash then they found the problem. Bad Crank Angle Sensor. Replaced it and it has never returned a single time.

The fuel cut off excuse is lame. Sure the Rev Limiter cuts off fuel, that should be no reason to foul the emissions up (which generally is the reason for the MIL).

The issue on my car was the C.A.S. was faulty, wasn't picking up the impulses at high revs therefore not telling the cylinders to fire, thusly flushing unburnt fuel thru the system. The O2 sensors saw this and flagged the MIL.

A few times isn't detrimental, continuously will plug the Catalytic filters, and they are not cheap.

I found a handheld OBDII reader that I'm going to get. it's $500 and you can plug it in and read everything the car is doing while you're going. I think it's going to be rather educational and very informative. Will also be real nice going into the dealership, have them diagnose it, wait for their BS, then tell them the code and watch them squirm.

I'd advise anyone with the blinking light to get it fixed, otherwise you get to replace expensive cats later. But also remember cats are guaranteed under federal law for 100,000 miles I think.

 

Sherlock,

Don't forget to tell us the experiences of using OBDII reader if you get one. We'd like to know how well they are dealing with 3rd Gen. TL.

Thanks.

 

That autoxray is exactly what i'm getting. the 5000. the 6000 only has a few more features that will not apply to all the cars in our household.

I like the 5000 over the smaller ones because it gives the code and the description on the screen, the smaller ones just give the code and you have to go look it up. I like having the answer right there.

I'll keep ya'll posted.