gatsbi

I'm thinking about trading in my 05 Acura TL 6 speed manual and buying Honda Civic Si.
I was originally thinking of Civic LX coupe manual in the beginning because of the high gas price and TL's maintenance cost...
After all, all I'm doing with the car is commuting to work.
Thought that's gonna save tones of money for buying some useless stuffs that I won't likely to use (like play station 3, samsung high def TV, new canon SLR camera, etc...)

I've talk with my wife and she is telling me, "for God's sake, think about your age and buy something that's at least equivant to TL".... (I'm only 33 years old turning 34)

I went back to a dealer and dang, S2000 looked very good, like a really sophisticated toy. But then who knows how much insurance is gonna be on that convertable....and no rear seat for my 2 year old daughter (although I never put her on my TL, since it's a smoker's car)

From there on, I've thought about other cars such as g35, Mazda rx8 (wow $3000 cash backs), mazda speed 3, etc....

and now my thought has ended up on Civic Si, which kindda defeats the purpose of money saving plan (didn't know civic si also eats up premium gas) to a certain degree...and civic si, from my wife's point of view shouldn't be different from civic LX...

Anyway, could anyone justify me on my decision?

erdoc48

With the TL mpg being ~ 27 combined city/hwy, and with Civic Si mpg figures of 21/29, getting rid of the TL makes no sense (for even 5 mpg difference, trading down makes no sense). Plus, getting rid of a car you currently own in favor of a new car is a financially bad decision (will take a long time to recoup the loss from buying a new car). You should do your best (as I have) to use the TL to its best advantage to maximize mpg (light foot when accelerating and for the most part, keeping the RPM's <2K). I've been averaging 28+ mpg with 80% hwy/20% city driving over the past 2 tankfuls.

Keep your TL (this is assuming you still really like the car)

MustBeTL

A civic is a much smaller car. They are cool rides, but I am definitely over that stage of it all.

gatsbi

Wow, 28+ mpg avg? Impressive
I used to be proud to average my TL at 24 mpg...(isn't TL 18/26?)

erdoc48

I normally average 26 mpg, but since I've tried to be easier on the gas (light foot, max 2000 K RPM, and max speed of ~ 62 mph so I'm not too fast or slow on the highway) I've been able to get average 28.5 mpg. Better mpg was seen with the summer blend fuel (winter mileage was ~24-25 mpg regularly). For a straight highway run at 62 mpg, the mileage will be in the 31-32 range. This surprised me as well, and I didn't think a V6 could do that well. I believe it's all about keeping the revs low (<2K, even under acceleration). If I'm on a 50 mph road, I'm sure to get it into 5th gear ASAP using the sportshift if it's holding in 4th (with a 5AT). A Civic (EX/LX) carefully driven will get 35+ mpg, but for the relatively minor difference in mileage, getting the smaller car really isn't worth it. By the way, mine is an 06 (non TL-S). I keep the tires up a little as well (36 psi cold) to decrease rolling resistance, and use Mobil 1 5W-20 (not sure this will make a difference mpg wise).

gatsbi

Oh, btw TL is a very good car.
It was the best choice logically and instinctively when I bought it.

Anyway, Here is my break down.

I got TL at around 29K with no down on 2006 with 60 month terms.
I have 3 years left on my loan close to $600 per month payment with $19.5K left.
Private selling is not too good....(try autotrader, and craigslist... all you get is junk phone calls and one of the rare call is a guy asking for ridiculously low firm price).

The dealers usually avoids buying the car, but found one dealer who would take the TL for $19.8K and sell civics at Kelly blue book's average selling price ($16.8K for LX probably 21K for si).

I have to make monthly payment of $600K by beginning of the May, and have Brembo brake jobs coming.. which would be a bit more than $1000 combined with monthly payment.

So, if I buy civic LX, I would be actually saving a lot per month, and not loosing much on my TL sales....I think

While doing this, was supprised to find out Civic's resale value is very high...compare to big luxury/near luxury car's resale value (such as TL, G35, etc....)

I don't want to baby the car that's suppose to be performance/luxury....the performance part is lost and what's the point of having many horses...I want a car that I could really step on it and turn corners with some G force....(not a lackless driving tough...)... and not worry about replacing high profile tires or mpg...

erdoc48

If you get a Civic LX, I think you might regret getting rid of the TL (no more heated seats, BT phone (if you use it like most of us), no sunroof, and a lot of other lost features).

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

atleast get you a 4banger accord... civic.. c'mon be more logical

Sweet07TL-S

If you think that the maintenance costs are high on a TL you obviously have no idea how high they are on a G35. I traded my 04 G35 coupe in on my 07 TL-S. The maintenance is considerably less with my TL-S than it was with my G35.

KeithL

Just curious what kind of differences? I mean firt few years and 60K miles is all warranty so you have oil changes and some basic checks, nothing serious that adds up to real dollars shoudl happen during warranty? I ask becasue I was thinking 09 G37 Sedan (rumoured) for me next year after driving a few TL's and knowing Acura can't do a yeat one car, so firgured 09 woudl be Infiniti for me.

BruceLandry

My wife has a TL and I have an SI. She gets 16 to 17mpg around town and I get 25 unless I need to hear the engine at above 6grand But on the HY the TL will get 30 to 32 and the SI gets 32mpg max (can't figure that out).

I love my SI it's like a little go cart the way it handles however for long rides the TL blows it away in comfort.

For fun I would go for the SI, for comfort the TL but.

However if I already had the TL I would stick with it.

BTW I'm 50.

Alos once in awhile my wife will take the SI and come back saying how much fun it is to drive.

TL1999

you should get a smart car at smartusa.com and that will save $$ on gas

erdoc48

Maintenance costs for the TL arean't really all that high- oil changes are all that's really needed (until 100K miles), and I buy the oil form Wal Mart along with a Mobil 1 filter. I have a Goodyear dealer that does the oil change for $15.00. I can change the filters myself. The car o/w needs nothing til 100K miles. Take it to the dealership for maintenance and it's another story.

leedogg

its amazing how a couple hundred dollars in savings are driving people to make decisions costing them a couple thousand in equity loss.

The best way to save is to keep your cars for 200k miles or until they die.

xen-cuts

This is the worst sell-out idea ever. And for once you ought listen to the wifey...lol!

blazinginder

^ ...driving em to the ground, thats the way to go, got 218k on the 94 Camry, 168k on the 98 ML320 and much lower mileage on the 07 TL-S, 18k and the 08 ML350, 4k...but its getting there

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

If gas consumption is the issue, the Si is NOT the answer, nor is the s2000.

Let me runs some numbers by you...

I was driving my TL 90 miles a day for the last 2 years, part of living in/around DC... everyone commutes.

Gas prices started creeping up. $65 + fillups every 4 days in the TL. Shit just started not making sense. I made a decision.

I sold my old SUV Xterra (man I miss the beast)... got $10K for it.

I put that $10K down on a 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid. ($23.5 OTD with Nav!)

I then financed the reminder $13.5K at 4% - Made for $250/month payment.

The insurance is cheaper on the Hybrid, and the state taxes are about the same.

The Hybrid runs non-premium, and at the end of the months saves me over $160-$180 a month in gas. That almost makes the monthly payment.

Total cost, out of pocket is about $70 a month more than before I sold my old truck and commuted in the Acura...

In the end, the Acura got promoted to "weekend/project" car, and I'm riding in a brand new Hybrid. Sure, the Civic isn't as nice, but Evertime I look at the "49 mpg avg milage", I remember why I'm doing it.
When I got home, I jump in the TL and tearass around the neighborhood to feel better.

The Civic Hybrid is the a perfect little shitter commuter car. I'm made at myself for not doing this 2 years ago. If I had, I'd likely still have a 2006 Hybrid paid off, and likely a new s2000 in the garage instead of the TL...

If you're gonna have a "toy", make it a real toy. I have so much time and energy in the TL, I'll likely be keeping it a while, but sure wish I had a little 2 seater with ime Attack Volks on it.

If you drive a lot, consider the milage, and pick up a civic hybrid before the prices go nuts this summer. With a little creative financing, you may might be able to have both when you realize the cost savings the hybrid will bring you...

and don't forget, the Civic Hybrid get you HOV access AND an $1100 tax credit if you buy before June!

CrazyNurse

Don't get a civic that's such a huge downgrade. They're so played out and fugly.

If yer looking at reliability, resale value, and fuel effeciency then get yourself a 4cyl Accord or Camry. These are always topsellers for the same exact reasons stated above.

It doesn't sound like you need a V6 and the I4 versions of these cars are more reliable. You're still downgrading but won't be as dissatisfied.

Tripnbeats

hahahah some dude came to my shop to get the dash of his smart car wrapped in leather.....the funniest thing..... hes like this is the only "MOD" im gonna do to the car.

IntegraVT

iTrader: (1)

Shoot over to the EPA's Fuel Economy site and use the comparison tool to do the math, www.fueleconomy.gov

You'll see that the Si isn't that far off from the TL. Based on $3.73 a gallon and 15k miles a year you would be saving a grand total of $27.50 a month. At least Kennedy's got the right idea, he's saving $117.50/month with his Hybrid over your TL.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

My calcs are little higher. Premium around here is in the $4s already, and in the winter I was getting lesser milage, thus filling up more.

+ tax credit, + cheaper insurance, + cheaper oil changes (3 quarts)... The savngs continue.

Oh, and the best part. my TL stays under warranty for the next year. 2006... current milage: 35, 290.

Ni$h21

new V6 camry
why: both manual and auto tranny's are 6spd
more HP then the TL w/o the premium gas <= major win
interior isn't all that bad
correct me if i'm wrong but i think its cheaper then the TL

paliknight

you cant get any 2009 V6 Camry with a 6 speed manual transmission.

shooter

Good move Kennedy ! My buddy did the same move this year after ditching his BMW 550i for a Prius after his lease runs out ...

gatsbi

Oh, Camry....
Toyota made a superstitious person out of me.
My Rav4 flipped over and got totaled.
My 02 Camry SE (dang a weak brake and a weak body, got $12K worth of fixing job)
My dad's Tacoma, I drove it a couple of times and made $700 worth of damages .

I think toyota is possibly the most reliable car and they make the finesest car for the price.
But for some reason toyota doesn't like me....I say there is no chemistry.
Not another camry....yikes....


Hondas..
They used to make motor cycles... and got into the car business later than toyota...
But now they are making really fine cars.
Actually, I had nothing but fun drinving honda cars.
94 Accord was fun.
My 05 TL has been fun so far.


BTW, are you guys really thinking of driving TL until it dies or upto 200K miles?
I have never driven one car more than 4 years...

pnoi521

From what I heard all the new Camry V6s are having problems.
I think I remember them getting a not recommended from consumer reports...
Haha I was just having this talk with my friends the other day.
I was saying how I should just trade my car in for a civic since gas is getting so high $4.11/gal
I figured that since my car is paid off I would have around $9,000 extra after paying off the civic, buttt then I came to my senses and decided against it.
Now I'm just tyring to see how much I can try to stay under 3,000 RPM..

08WDP

Prior owning the TL - S, i got an 07 S2000, that car is a blast to drive everytime, and i manage to get somewhat around 25-27 mpg per fill up and thats good considering other S2000 driver getting 19. So i "upgraded" to a TL and i do miss the fun in the S but not too much from its MPG, my TL only have 700 miles on it so far so its not breaking in yet, i have been getting 23 mpg 60 freeway 40 city. Keep the TL and get an S2000 for weekend ftw!~

xen-cuts

I like this post.

jsong83

to the OP, i was considering both the SI and TL before I bought the TL and i was leaning towards the SI because i thought the extra gas mileage would help but the SI drains a lot more gas than advertised. I average 20 in my TL and when I test drove my friends SI for a couple days when he was out of town, i averaged 22.

but just to let you know, driving an SI and a civic LX is a big big difference in terms of fuel economy. its not even comparable to put these two cars (even though they have the same name) in the same fuel economy class. if youre trying to save gas, get the LX. thats what i plan on doing after i use trade in my TL. also, i just dont see the "point" to downgrade to a smaller, 2 door car with a smaller engine and less horsepower for only 2 extra miles for per gallon unless you were getting an extra 15mpg like you would with the LX. just a thought...

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

I couldn't be happier...
The Civic is gutless, but I've added most of the technical shortcoming back in.

Just added these things:

- Parrot 3200 bluetooth, so now I have handsfree.
- Homelink unit from an Odyssey, and changed out the ambient lighting to blue to match interior blue ambient lights.
- anti-dazzle rear view mirror
- OEM foglights with Nokya yellows, and a HID retro kit in the main beams
- LEDs all around, inside and out.
- SI front grill
- Leather EX-L steering wheel

Only thing left to do mod wise:
- infinity speakers all around, maybe a small sub
- tints
- SI swaybars to firm up the cornering
- Acura CSX interior cubby and trims (nice aestitics, uncheapens the interior a bit)
- and I'm considering the OEM body kit and lightweight wedsport wheels. Ya really shouldn't do wider performance tires, as one of the key mpg savers are the skinny hard rubber "known as low rolling resistance" tires. Not like you really need them with that whopping 1.3L engine.

The OEM Navi is fuckin badass, better than the TLs. Made by Alpine, no seperate DVD drive, accepts a memory card full of MP3s AND has an Aux jack.
I may send the Nav off to be modded ($75) so you can use a Doms unit. I miss my backup cam and AV I have in the TL.

I purposely selected ASM, as it's the most maintenence free color.

In the end I'll probably have another $3000 tied up in add ons, but in the end it'll be the perfect commuter car, and will have a nice visual appeal to it... Likely looking something like this (minus the gaudy stickers and bra).









When i want to feel "guts", I'll just jump in the TL...

Again, the only regret is not doing this "first" and using all the money I could have saved on a real sports car... but with 2 little kids, a nice 4 door sport/luxury sedan is great middle ground.

pokin

To OP,
Don't get me wrong and no offense meant. Your thinking seems to be all over the place. Ditching TL for gas usage and maintenance cost, but thought of a G35, S2000, RX8, Mazda3, Civic SI....?

TL's gas mileage is really not bad - relatively speaking for an upscale sports sedan.
TL's maintenance cost is also not bad - unless all work goes to the dealer.

You seem to be straining to justify letting go of the TL. I say, simply let go for a Civic Hybrid (37 avg), Civic EX (31 avg) or Mazda3 i (30 avg) and call it a day.

gatsbi

I'm not offended at all.
Naturally, that was the kind of reply I was expecting.

For me, in the beginning, it was plan of going ultra savings mode by getting civic LX.

But after talking with wife, what the heck, thought I might just go the opposite direction, loose some money, but buy some fancy car to get rid of the rain cloud hainging over my head for past few weeks mind set (another story)...

And my mind wondered around and end up with Civic Si...what the heck, I guess that's funny in a way...might be worth of getting

I wanted hear, not at the expense of flattering, an advise of bright minded TL owners.
Talk some sense into me, or hear different point of views...
And I'm grateful that you guys are taking an interest on the subject and writing the interesting takes on the matter.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Uhh, no - Civic Hybrid... 45mpg by EPA standards. I'm getting 50.
37 mpg I believe was the Accord Hybrid published numbers... but Honda discontinued it.

leedogg

Kennedy, havent you violated everything covered by warranty with a mod of some sort yet?

gatsbi

alrighhht,

I've decided to keep my TL.
Just finished rough detailing the interior.

Now I'm thinking of putting some bolts on racing pedals...(btw, would that void the warranty?)

Aman

way to turn around. but congrats on keeping the TL.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

ha...

I wear this shirt when I'm at my best.



I want my warranty for the sole purpose of getting those shitty leather seats replaced

leedogg

What? you havent swapped out for racing seats yet? noob.

blue rocket

iTrader: (1)

i just came into a TL from an Si and would never go back. Si is fun...but nothing compared to the TL...

some pics of the ole girl...

cristphoto

Reading post number 6 makes me think you either can't afford this car or need to learn better financial management. You have a young child - save your money and enjoy life.