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can't decide between the tl and es 330

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Old 08-27-2003, 09:52 PM
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Smile can't decide between the tl and es 330

Just can't decide between the new TL and the new Lexus ES 330, the price on the two should be similar since they LOWER the priceon the ES 330. Help!!
Old 08-27-2003, 10:09 PM
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Its really simple... do you prefer a sporty ride or do you want a more relaxed ride with some serious luxury options? Both are GREAT cars, the TL with the 6 speed manual, Brembos and a LSD will be a very nice FWD 4 door sporty car. The ES is a pimped out Lexus... you decide
Old 08-28-2003, 06:15 AM
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Tough call. If the ES had the TL navi, I'd jump on the ES.
Old 08-28-2003, 07:34 AM
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Haven't seen the new ES but if it looks like a pimped out Camry, I'd go with the TL!
Old 08-28-2003, 08:11 AM
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Before you go with the ES you should check out Edmunds.com. There are a lot of people *****ing about the tranny of the current ES. Its not failing but it doesn't shift correctly and Lexus isn't doing anything about it.
Old 08-28-2003, 10:21 AM
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my mom's ES is great. it has a VERY smooth ride. ( and no shifting problems either ) but compared to my TLS, not enough power. for ME, i would take the TLS over the ES, but for someone who is not really concerned about power, the ES is a very smooth ride....
Old 08-28-2003, 12:29 PM
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Here are some things to think about...

New ES330 has a more powerful engine (225 vs. 210 in ES300 but still significantly less than 270hp in TL)
New transmission "enhancements" (fix complaints?)
Standard features in TL are optional on ES330 (e.g., heated seats, HID headlights, high-end stereo, etc.)
Manumatic transmission not available on ES330 (may not be a big deal to you).
Very nice leather in ES (better than my '99 3.2TL)
My wife loves the look of the Lexus - not crazy about TL.

I optioned out an ES330 and it was close to $40K. I think the new TL will come in at $32-34K.

Both are sweet cars.

Hope this helps.
Old 08-28-2003, 02:03 PM
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It truly depends on what you want. If you want sport/entry luxury and speed, go with the TL. They're great cars.

If you want complete reliability and luxury, go with the Lexus. I traded my 2000 TL-P for a 2003 GS300. I haven't looked back. I really liked my TL, but in all honesty there is no comparision between Acura and Lexus. I'm not bashing Acura, but when you're paying 5-8K more for the Lexus there is a reason. My father has an 02 ES300 so I can compare the ES to the last gen TL. There was really nothing I didn't like about the TL, but I just didn't want the hassle of the transmission failures. I will say this, if the engine in the GS300 was as sweet sounding and rev happy as the TL I'd be even happier. Honda/Acura makes the sweetest motors out there, but given all of the other advantages with Lexus (quietness, structual integrity, total leather, real wood..etc) I'll find it hard to go back to Acura. I picked up an old accord to run to work with so I don't have to go without a Honda product, 265,000 miles and going strong.
Old 08-28-2003, 02:58 PM
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I agree with everyone here when they say that both are sweet cars.

I did read somewhere, Edmunds.com I think that the ES 330 will have more HP 225(?) but also more torque at 240 ft lbs. This sounds like it will be ok on the acceleration and maybe keep up with the new TL for a short period. Top level performance may be a bit off.

So if you want the cushy ride and (I guess Lexus wanted to expand the ES appeal to people who want more performance than last year's model) want a little more than the 03 ES 300 then maybe this is the right car for you.

Then again... the new TL still gives you bang for the buck... between these two cars, the TL will be the one to give you BANG.
Old 08-28-2003, 03:41 PM
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The new ES 300/330 is almost a full blow luxury car. Yeah you can adapt suspension settings but it is no IS 300 or G35. It is quiet and smooth, nothing sporty at all.The interior shames many more expensive cars. Some owners are complaining of a tranny shifting hard which Lexus has fixed with the ES 330. THat is hella better than a FAILING tranny. And you'll get a Lexus loaner and not a Kia. Fit and finish in any Lexus is top notch. The leather feels like real leather. The gauges are electroluminicent. All the openings (cd/ashtray/coin holder/glovebox) are DESIGNED to open at the same speed and angle. Little things that seperates Lexus.

The TL is not that sporty but it does mix well luxury and sport. It has fake wood, the leather fells like plastic, it is fast but FWD. So it mixes both instead of just shooting one way like a ES 300 or IS 300. This has worked well for Acura as some people want a lil of both. The TL is way faster than a ES and is cheaper.

Both are based on Camry/Accords. The ES is built in JAPAN, the TL in Ohio. Both are awesome cars but having an ES 300 convinced me to stay with Lexus 7 years ago. I am 110% satisfied.
Old 08-28-2003, 03:51 PM
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Has anyone mentioned that the ES is fugly? I know the interior is great and that's what I would mostly see but even so.
Old 08-28-2003, 04:28 PM
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Has anyone mentioned that the ES is fugly? I know the interior is great and that's what I would mostly see but even so.
Looks are subjective. The new ES is an acquired taste but it looks like no other sedan now, whereas previous ES 300s kinda looked like a Camry.

The TL now looks like a TSX which looks like a Civic to me. So it's all what a person thinks.
Old 08-28-2003, 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
The new ES 300/330 is almost a full blow luxury car. Yeah you can adapt suspension settings but it is no IS 300 or G35. It is quiet and smooth, nothing sporty at all.The interior shames many more expensive cars. Some owners are complaining of a tranny shifting hard which Lexus has fixed with the ES 330. THat is hella better than a FAILING tranny. And you'll get a Lexus loaner and not a Kia. Fit and finish in any Lexus is top notch. The leather feels like real leather. The gauges are electroluminicent. All the openings (cd/ashtray/coin holder/glovebox) are DESIGNED to open at the same speed and angle. Little things that seperates Lexus.

The TL is not that sporty but it does mix well luxury and sport. It has fake wood, the leather fells like plastic, it is fast but FWD. So it mixes both instead of just shooting one way like a ES 300 or IS 300. This has worked well for Acura as some people want a lil of both. The TL is way faster than a ES and is cheaper.

Both are based on Camry/Accords. The ES is built in JAPAN, the TL in Ohio. Both are awesome cars but having an ES 300 convinced me to stay with Lexus 7 years ago. I am 110% satisfied.
Thanks for comparing a car to a car you have not seen..

How do u say the 04 TL has failing tranny's? (It is rumoured to have the new MDX Tranny)

How do you know the leather on it is not good?

Why are u putting Acura down, you can get RSX, RL and many other Acura's for loaners, KIA?!

BTW The gauges on the New TL ARE AWESOME, L.E.D.'s!

You mentioned the 04TL has fake wood I can believe that but does the Lexus have real wood?

What u mean its fast but FWD? the car is only $32-34k Its the best bang for the buck.. Its a sedan for god sakes u can't expect it to be RWD or AWD, we would all like that because we are all car enthusiast, but most people would not buy RWD because its not good in snow and AWD would raise the Price QUITE a bit (Which sells the TL)

But All in all I do agree Acura Quality does not compare to Lexus Quality but you are comparing wrong things, specially on a car you have not drove yet..
Old 08-28-2003, 07:16 PM
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Relax 2004TL. He was not criticising Acura, he was just stating some true things. We all know that Acura does use cheap leather. We all know that Acura does use plastic instead of wood. Yes Lexus does use real wood. It was mentioned earlier by another member that the TL trannies were failing. He was only responding to that post. Acura makes a sweet car, but simply put, you get what you pay for. A lot of car for the money, but people complain too much about having substandard luxury features. If you want to pay 8K more for a Lexus or Infinity then you should expect nothing but top notch. I loved my TL, but I didn't complain about the fake wook, no so good leather quality among other cheaper things. Acura has to use some cheaper items to give us everything that they do.
Old 08-28-2003, 08:01 PM
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How do u say the 04 TL has failing tranny's? (It is rumoured to have the new MDX Tranny
Dawg, the 99-03s.
How do you know the leather on it is not good?
B/C the R&D went into the engine and new 6-speed and not luxury.
Why are u putting Acura down, you can get RSX, RL and many other Acura's for loaners, KIA?!
Obviously, you have never read any threads here concerning loaners and I am stating facts. If you said Lexus does not make a V-12 and can't compete with the S600, your damn right.
BTW The gauges on the New TL ARE AWESOME, L.E.D.'s!
Yes nice but not as nice as electroluminicent gauges IMO.
You mentioned the 04TL has fake wood I can believe that but does the Lexus have real wood?
There has never been any Lexus with fake food.
Relax 2004TL. He was not criticising Acura, he was just stating some true things. We all know that Acura does use cheap leather. We all know that Acura does use plastic instead of wood. Yes Lexus does use real wood. It was mentioned earlier by another member that the TL trannies were failing. He was only responding to that post. Acura makes a sweet car, but simply put, you get what you pay for. A lot of car for the money, but people complain too much about having substandard luxury features. If you want to pay 8K more for a Lexus or Infinity then you should expect nothing but top notch. I loved my TL, but I didn't complain about the fake wook, no so good leather quality among other cheaper things. Acura has to use some cheaper items to give us everything that they do.
Thank u. I explained the ES is very right wing, it is basically ALL luxury, no sport. Previous ES 300s were designed to tackle sport AND luxury and no one took it seriously as a sports sedan. Lexus figured this out and made it a entry-level all luxury sedan. The TL blends a little of both well. That is all.

If acceleration is one's most important item, I sure as hell would NEVER recommend the ES 300.

Old 08-28-2003, 08:25 PM
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Thanks a lot for all your input, just can't wait for the 04 TL no more, putted down the down payment for a 04 ES330, dealer quote me $33,000 with pretty much all options except for the Nav. Hopefully I made the right choice, wish me luck.
Old 08-28-2003, 10:09 PM
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SORRY ALL

I got carried away, I took your post wrong..

Its just people have been assuming too much and not giving the new 04 TL a chance....

and Pushpin30 33k for a fully loaded ES330 with no navi? WOW Thats nice I think.. Pretty close to the TL's price..

When is it coming out and will it have the current Lexus Body or is it a whole new design?
Old 08-29-2003, 02:20 AM
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ES 330 is same design maybe a thing changed here and there. The ES is a 5 year cycle. Came out in 2000 as a 2001, 2002, 2003 and in 2003, the 2004 comes out for a freshning and 2005 before the all new 2006 model.
Old 08-29-2003, 08:54 AM
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One thing of note is that there has been about a $1500 price drop on the ES330 from ES300. It will be interesting to see how Acura counters with the price of the TL.

With all this luxery it pisses me off that the ES330 still doesn't have stereo controls on the wheel. I really like that feature on the TL. Its one of those things you don't think you need until you have it.
Old 08-29-2003, 06:10 PM
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Wow, you got me looking at the ES 330. What a nice car. I've been quoted $33,500 for the 2004 with the premium package.
MSRP is 35,151. The dealer has the color I want...I still want to see where the TL is priced at, but if the TL listed for a dollar over 32K, I'll buy the Lexus.
Old 08-29-2003, 06:13 PM
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I would not mind the ES330, but its not sporty for my tastes, and I hate the exterior, its just odd looking..
Old 08-29-2003, 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by jdone
Has anyone mentioned that the ES is fugly? I know the interior is great and that's what I would mostly see but even so.
Yup you said me man, the trend with lexus and toyota is bulging headlights or tailights. Damn they are ugly.
Old 08-29-2003, 09:35 PM
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I think the ES330 is really odd looking and ugly plus the fact that i only see senior citizens driving it...Go with the TL>sport,luxury and appeal
Old 08-29-2003, 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by ColdFusionTL
I think the ES330 is really odd looking and ugly plus the fact that i only see senior citizens driving it...Go with the TL>sport,luxury and appeal
Also TL is newer and has more technology, but maybe the new ES330 will have something that might "WOW" us, like ventilated seats
Old 08-30-2003, 08:33 AM
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As someone who owned a 2002 TL Type S and traded it several months ago for a new Lexus GS300, SportsDesign, I can tell you the net answer to your question is that it truly depends on what type of driving experience YOU want. They are both very fine, but IMO, very different cars. One thing I loved..and miss..about my TL-S is the power. I don't miss the phantom rattles and squeaks the car was plagued with. Yes, that it why I got rid of it. If I had not had so many rattles, I would have happily kept MY TL-S for quite some time (the only rattle Acura was able to fix was the infamous sunroof rattle). An interesting note is that soon after I took delivery of my Lexus, I had the same type of sunroof rattle and quickly returned it to Lexus and they repaired it. One thing I like about Lexus is that you get a Lexus loaner car, not a compact and usually much less expensive loaner car that I got from Acura.

Prior to buying the GS300, I test drove they ES330. I found it to be a great car that was truly luxurious inside and it had a very nice, quiet and comfortable ride. However, it just wasn't sporty or quick enough -- for me. Again, it depends on what YOU want for a driving experience and also, of course, what your budget is. I would suggest that you take both cars out for several hours or more (without the salesman.)

If I like the style of the new TL and if the rattle/squeek issues have been addressed, I would, without hesitation, consider it in a couple of years. Good luck!

Dan
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Old 08-30-2003, 09:23 PM
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I went for a test drive today in a new ES 330 --- this is a great riding car...quiet, smooth, not one squeak or rattle --- standard sound system was good, but not great.

I'll wait a while, but I am doubtful that I'll buy a TL unless it is better than the Gen2.
Old 08-31-2003, 08:05 AM
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I'm surprised you thought the ES330 wasn't quick enough and the GS300 was (although you say the TL-S is faster).

Doesn't the ES330 have more horsepower than the GS300 and isn't the GS300 heavier? Does RWD make up for that?
Old 08-31-2003, 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by larrynimmo
Wow, you got me looking at the ES 330. What a nice car. I've been quoted $33,500 for the 2004 with the premium package.
MSRP is 35,151. The dealer has the color I want...I still want to see where the TL is priced at, but if the TL listed for a dollar over 32K, I'll buy the Lexus.
It would be foolish to spend $35k on an ES330 as there are much much better overall cars out there. But hey, it's your money.
Old 08-31-2003, 04:12 PM
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I'm not going to spend 35K on the Lexus...please tell me a better car for 33,500 than the Lexus...I think if the TL stickers for 31,000 it will be a good deal. Can anybody tell me that they would pick the TL over the Lexus if they are the same price.

Larry
Old 08-31-2003, 05:10 PM
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I would pick the TL even if it was a little more than the Lexus?

Yes lexus has the prestige and good leather, real wood, good everything, but the car is SO DAMN Ugly..

and it isn't made for sporty driving, so it doesn't have stiff suspension, or brembos, and the nice NAVI that Honda has, and it doesn't have nearly the same HP, but I think its enough but still TL any day over the ES, unless they make a new one, and the outer shape is more in the young crowd..

The TL just looks so much more aggressive and better
Old 08-31-2003, 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by larrynimmo
I'm not going to spend 35K on the Lexus...please tell me a better car for 33,500 than the Lexus...I think if the TL stickers for 31,000 it will be a good deal. Can anybody tell me that they would pick the TL over the Lexus if they are the same price.

Larry
I would buy the new TL over the lexus. I mean sure its a "lexus" but its still really ugly. That's the only reason for getting the car, the name. Otherwise, the looks and performance suck
Old 04-16-2006, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pushpin30
Just can't decide between the new TL and the new Lexus ES 330, the price on the two should be similar since they LOWER the priceon the ES 330. Help!!
I HAD THE SAME CHOICE BETWEEN THE LEXUS AND ACURA GO FOR THE TL THE LEXUS U CANT DO NO WORK TO OR ANYTHING AND THE TL IS MUCH NICER LOOKIGN ANY WAY
Old 04-16-2006, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by matt tl
I HAD THE SAME CHOICE BETWEEN THE LEXUS AND ACURA GO FOR THE TL THE LEXUS U CANT DO NO WORK TO OR ANYTHING AND THE TL IS MUCH NICER LOOKIGN ANY WAY

This thread is 3 yrs old. I'm pretty sure he's picked one by now. There's no need to SHOUT. thanks.
Old 04-16-2006, 12:22 PM
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hahahaa, theres always one of these a week...
Old 04-18-2006, 12:47 PM
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I would get an ES if you could get the one with 300hp in a manual transmission...since you can't I go for the TL.

Good Luck

-Doug
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