ewwwitstofu

So I'm headed to Austin from Houston and I'm driving on Highway-75. Going around 80 mph in a 70 zone in my gf's Civic since my TL was in the shop getting engine repairs.

A state trooper is headed towards us from a road to the right side of the highway. In a way it's kinda like a feeder, but it's a 2-way road.

The Cop was headed towards us and I spotted him so I was like whatever, he's headed towards us, so I don't slow down much, maybe 78-79 mph? There's this white accord on the right side of me and he's speeding to pass me up. At that time the cop radars us, and I look in my side view mirror and see him bust a U off the feeder, drive through the grass, and get on the highway.

I'm thinking wtf? At first I thought he was going to get the guy in the white accord, since he was speeding much faster than I, but he got behind me and motioned me to pull over, so I went ahead and pulled off to the side. The white accord was pulled over also.

He asks me for my license and registration of course, so I handed him such, and he asks me where I was headed. I told him I was headed to Austin for a friend's birthday party, and he tells me to sit tight. So he takes a look around the car, and he goes to his patrol car. When he gets out of his car, he talks to the guy driving the accord, (and his man was a white male in his early 30's) for a good 5 minutes or so, and he gets let off and takes off without a write up, ticket, or whatever. I was watching them both in the rear view mirror and I saw the cop just let him go.

The cop is a white male also, in his mid 30s. He comes back up to my car, and this time, hes got his citation clipboard. So he writes me up as going not 78-80 mph, but 86 mph! I can only assume this is the cause of him using the radar on the white guy since he was trying to pass me up and he blocked my car from the cop anyway. I didn't really want to argue with the cop because if a crooked cop like that was going to let off some guy, he probably would shit on me if i decided to bitch at him, so I kept it shut.

The citation noted me to see some judge in Austin, and I was only going to be in Austin for 1 night, and back to Houston the next morning. I know the courts are closed on weekends, so I was screwed there, and I had gotten a ticket 10 months ago for getting caught at an exit going 57, so defensive driving was a no go for this ticket.

I called the judge's number which was written on the citation, and a message told me if I wanted to contact the judge, fax a letter because they don't talk over the phone about issues. I want to request for probation because I usually don't speed, and I don't want my insurance rates to increase due to some bullshit citation such as this. The only way I've heard of requesting for probation was to see the judge in person, but since her court is in Austin, I'm pretty much stuck, unless I were to drive 3 hours up there to go see her, then drive back home.

So sorry for the long write up, but I am really frustrated and I have no idea what to do. My court hearing date is on Nov, 21, and I hate the way post mail works, I would rather just call, fax a letter, or whatever, but do you guys think that she would honor my probation request over fax?

What should I do? It really sucks to get nailed for something like this. It also hurts that i got cited for going 86 instead of 80. The ticket costs around 90 dollars more, and I'm paying for my tuition at UH so I'm pretty much broke

Please leave input, and any advice/tips. Thanks in advance.

revitupwriteitoff

Although I don't necessarily have any great advice, I can say that perhaps when the cop turned on his lights (thus turning his on-board camera on), that the video would show the accord, and you could dispute that the cop could tell who he was radaring. Even though I should admit I don't receive a lot of racism (I'll let you guess why), I live in Houston and have lived in this part of Texas my entire life, and have seen enough to certainly believe you.

I would certainly follow up with the fax and mention that you want the video pulled. I figure that they'll either not want to deal with it at all and dismiss everything, pull the video and agree with you and lower your ticket significantly, or pull the video and dismiss it because they can't tell what speed you're going.

Any way it goes, good luck with your classes (my wife is in UH accounting grad school), and don't forget to play the race card if you know you're right and you're not getting what you deserve.

ewwwitstofu

Thanks, Rev. I'll mention in the fax that I do want the video pulled. Do you think that they'll want me to get a lawyer or anything of that sort because I requested to pull the video? or can I just handle it by myself. I surely can't afford a lawyer as of now. Also when the drive of the accord pulled over, he was behind the cop's car so none of those 2 talking together may have been on the video.

Also, when I finally turned the car back on and headed on my way, lo and behold, he has already pulled another person over maybe half a mile ahead.

Thanks again Rev, and good luck with your wife's classes.

MR1

Two speeding tickets in less than a year = rethink your defense!
I feel you about the situation but what are your chances of winning?
Take responsibility for your screwups and learn something, you get the short end of the stick but you grabbed for it by speeding.

Not necessiarly fair or right but you can keep it from happening again.

kenny5

I know some of the cops are racist, but be VERY careful if you want to play the race card in front of a judge. In general, I believe judges are more fair and unbiased, but I don't think they appreciate hearing a defense based on racism, which in my opinion, will probably not work at all in a speeding ticket situation. Do write a good letter and make a request for the video, as suggested by the other poster. Good luck!

Hapa DC5

Well, the guy in the Accord was speeding too. You both broke the law, just take responsibility for your actions. I know it sucks you got the shaft, but it may be more of an age thing with you being a younger person than a racial issue.

pimpin-tl

Well yes you do have to show up for court. OR you can get a lawyer and pay the ticket fee + like $50 for court fee's to have him do it for you and you don't have to show. But you will need to find one in Austin to take care of that ticket for you.

revitupwriteitoff

Let me clarify...perhaps my post could've been worded better.

As for the race card, I meant for you to play that card only if you get nothing but criticism and absolutely no reprieve. This is based on my next point...

I haven't had a speeding ticking in quite some time (6 or 7 years), but I do remember that when I got my last one, the 1 mile an hour the cop let me off saved me (or didn't cost me, however you wan to think about it) about $190, which I was assuming was similar to the damage the extra mph will do with yours. They may have changed the law since then.

Either way, certainly do slow down from now on, or at least make sure you're only speeding when there's plenty of traffic speeding along with you (like that'll ever happen in Houston).

Formula 350

First, there are many things that could have been the cause of him letting the other guy go..

one is that he did not... you might not have seen everything...

another is age... I have gotten off a ticket because I was not a teenager in a Formula... even though I was driving faster than I should..

another is he could have been a police officer, a civil servant a teacher or a resident of Austin... police are more lenient on these people...

another is he did not get a reading on that car and could not prove it in court... and just kept the guy the 5 minutes to harass him a bit and then let him go...

My problem is you jumped to the race card quickly and it might not be that at all...

The radar is supposed to have a means of telling which car he gets the hit, but I have seen a state trooper do the same thing that happened to you... he just came over the top of a hill... a 'regular' car was in the right and was going VERY fast.. the mustang was in the left and doing at least 20 mph less.... I was back a mile or so... saw the cop turn in front of me and pull over the mustang.. felt sorry for the guy... but I think he was speeding anyhow...

Do try for deferred adjudication... you will have to pay the fine, but it would not go on your record... but with a ticket in the last year that is very very slim... I would say your only bet is to get a lawyer and hope he finds a technical flaw in their charge against you...

neuronbob

I agree with Formula. You can't know the reason the other guy got off, or if he even did get off. It's really easy to jump to conclusions in this situation. Trust me, as a black guy, I have to make similar judgements and in this situation it doesn't matter what color you are, if you're speeding, you're speeding. Just be glad the cop didn't bust out the K-9 unit and search you for drugs or something, this could have been a LOT worse for you than just a ticket. You absolutely did the right thing by shutting up and cooperating, you should ALWAYS do that when pulled over.

You WERE speeding and it doesn't matter how fast the other guy was going, the cop got you. One thing to be careful of is whether the cop was using J-pop, if so, those readings are notoriously inaccurate. That may be a point to bring up in court, should you choose to bring it up.

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

AdrenalineX

I am in Texas on vacation right now (South Padre Island a.k.a. SPI). As a native Californian, I have to make one observation about Texans... they take their speed limits seriously. Coming to SPI from the Brownsville Airport, the speed limit constantly shifts from 35 to 45 to 55 to 65, back down, back up, etc. My experience over the past few days has been that when the speed limit says 35, Texans go 35. I felt that this close observation of the speed limits by Texans must have reflected the gravity with which the speed limit was enforced, and I therefore also closely heeded the limits - even though 35 seriously felt like the car was not moving at all.

Anyway, regarding your ticket... I wonder if the patrolman was using LIDAR (laser) such that he would be able to differentiate between which car was going faster or, if not, if he would be able to testify that, at the time s/he took the reading, you drove the larger car or the lead car. I would imagine that you would also plan on attacking the patrolman's ability to substantiate the timely and accurate calibration of his/her radar unit.

I agree with NeuronBob and Formula350 that the racial discrimination argument may be a hard rope to tow. Plus if you don't have sound evidence, it will affect the validity of your better arguments.

subinf

Lots of cops stop using dash videos because defense attorneys would request them and show all the errors the cop made and the guys would usually get off. I know that is the case in Oregon, would assume it is like that elsewhere now also.

ericajackhannahjamie?

rude and uncalled for..
MichaelBenz: see pm please

Formula 350

Read the post....

The cop was DRIVING when he got the reading.... this is a radar hit...

Texas DPS drive with their radar on most of the time and will get enough hits to pull over people... if you have a radar detector you can hear them coming... and from what I was told, they can pick up your speed no matter what direction they are traveling or what speed... their system compensates for what they are doing....

You will not win with calibration... they have the speil down pat of what they did etc... even if it is not calibrated YOU have to prove in court it is not... how you going to do that???

And, what is your defense??? Well judge, I was not speeding as fast as the guy said??? You admit guilt doing that... and if you say you were not speeding at all and the tapes etc show you were... well, purjury?? Not that they would do anything about it... seems everybody does it.. but, you case is blown and they can give you the maximum fine even at the lower speed and that is more than what you would pay..

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

What would happen if I got pulled over doing, maybe 3 over (not that I did), but refused to sign the ticket that I was speeding?

MichaelBenz

iTrader: (2)

I understand your point....but the race card? Come on....guy admitted he was speeding. Not to mention....first I have heard that posts should be run though a "rude and uncalled for" filter...kudos! There is so much "rude and uncalled" for here on this site that I kind of figured it was the norm and acceptable. Kudos to the mod that it now looking out for the rude and uncalled for....honestly. I mean...I could literally wear myself out showing you equally and more uncalled for posts here on AZ that are completely unmentioned by any mod whatsoever.....but somehow you pick me to call out on it.... I certainly hope it wont stop there....

your_mom

Just because ewwwitstofu was doing 80 in a 70 does not mean he should take responsibility and pay the ticket for 86 in a 70. He is only responsible for 10 over.

And you people that are all speeding is bad are idiots. What are you doing on a TL board anyway? Sell your car to someone who will enjoy it and get a Kia Rio, since you aren't going over 55 anyway. In my opinion, 80 in a 70 in Texas is perfectly reasonable, between Houston and Austin is flat as a pancake and very straight with good pavement. I've done it plenty of times and never had an issue.

deke

71 in a 70 is illegal. as is 80 in a 70. as is 86 in a 70. You cant have the law written with a grey area. Then it becomes a huge pissing match.

trancemission

I agree deke, if you're speeding just take the ticket.

E-luzion

Guess what.. your opinion doesnt matter in a court of law... Cops usually jump when they see anyone doing 80+ PERIOD.. this told to me by 5 different state troopers in MA. The cop can set any payment he wants.. just b/c he is 10 mph over the limit doesnt mean he isnt going to get a hefty fine... and if someone sits there and lies to the cops face, the cop is going to tack on more... tell the truth and fess up right there and then....

Next time your speeding think about what would happen if you lost control of your car for whatever the reason and you ended up hurting/killing someone.. I would love to see you pompus attitude then.... oh im 28...so if you consider that old guess again...

Im all for speed... used to drag my Lightning (470/599 rwhp/rwtq) every weekend... and on open road with no one else around... i usually give it gas... I do the same with the TL when i get a chance...dont get me wrong...but speeding with other cars around and a cops see you... pay the ticket and take it as what not to do in the future....

neuronbob

your_mom, I think you're a bit wrong here.

I speed, too, as do many of us on occasion. When I have been pulled over, I have been polite and took the ticket because I knew was speeding. The fact that the OP was speeding and got caught put him in the situation of having the BS'd ticket in the first place.

If he hadn't been speeding (or, as I and many others do, used a V1 ) he wouldn't have had to worry about the ticket, bogused or not. End of story.

jb_turner

A. You were the one to bring up the race card.
B. You were speeding and you admitted it.
C. You admitted to speeding in the past.

Take ownership of your actions. Hire an attorney and go to court to prove your innocenc. The person in the white accord is not at issue here... YOU ARE!

Formula 350

They will tell you that signing is NOT and admission of guilt... and if you still refuse to sign they usually arrest you and take you to jail.... your choice...

And 3 mph is still speeding.. every once in awhile around here they have a no tolerance zone... they give tickets to everybody no matter what the infraction... even 3 mphs...

joed40

Cut your losses. Live and learn. You were speeding, I've said this so many times in response to these type of posts. Take responsibility and get on with things.

Heard so many times it is always the cop. Cops can be pricks but the people they pull over have a much larger propensity to be the same. Racist card?
How the hell would you prove such a thing? It's a speeding ticket, not a murder trial.

You going to have to decide, good luck!

avs007

I don't know about Texas, but in Oregon/Washington, 10 over is a Class C infraction. 11+ over is a Class B infraction. And I think 15+ over is a Class A, or something like that. So yes, there could be a huge difference if you are going 80 in a 70 or 86 in a 70.


But I agree about the no-tolerance in Texas. When I used to live in california, the average speed of traffic going through LA was around 80-85 irregardless what the speed limit was.

When I went to Austin on business, when the speed limit as 50, people were going 45-50. I was like, "What the heck?!". But I just kept in line at 50, because I didn't feel like getting shot or pulled over.

BustedJack

holy sh*t grammar! I lost you at the beginning of 3rd sentence..............

I actually understand both side of the argument. Being white living in a white world does give you some advantages, sometimes you don't see what we see (me being an asian guy.) Having that said, I agree that the cop let the accord driver go for what reason? We won't know. Does it matter? Not really... So I think he should call it a "bad luck day" and hire an attorney and fight for the ticket or simply just pay the ticket.

This past may, my friend and I were on our way to a car meet and having a little fun with our cars. We were speeding, my friend who was well ahead of me (since his car was much more powerful) I was pulled over by a cop. I didn't argue, just took the damn ticket.... now had that been my lady or her sister, it would have been a nice warning and no ticket. But could I argue with the fact he gave me a ticket cuz I was asian? No, I got the ticket because I was speeding... but you see my point?....

trancemission

PM sent...

subinf

Slightly unrelated, but when a buddy and I were driving through Texas we passed a cop going at least 95. When he pulled us over (I wasn't driving) he asked how fast we thought we were going. We didn't say anything, and then he told us we were just shy of 70 mph and acted like that was a big fucking deal. I had to look at my feet to not laugh my ass off.

AdrenalineX

Yes, sorry about that.. I was just cursorily scanning the posts. Paying attention more closely I see that ewwwitstofu and the officer were both driving, that ewwwitstofu was the lead vehicle and that ewwwitstofu was closer to the officer.
Yep.. tough one.

Re the calibration, well, at least here in CA, I hear you can make a pre-trial motion requesting evidence including among other things the calibration of the radar unit. Here in CA, I understand that the officers generally have their testimony down pat and that they'll testify to everything they need to sustain a finding of guilt. They'll testify to testing the unit using it's internal calibration features and externally using a tuning fork, both before going on shift; that the unit was calibrated within the last year by an authorized entity, and they'll bring a certificate. Sometimes they miss the year by several months and sometimes the calibration document is not properly authenticated so there's a potential for keeping the calibration out that way. Some judges may find the lack of proof of official calibration to create reasonable doubt.

Re your defense. My understanding is that you do not have to testify to anything (Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrim). I.e., because the government has the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, you can win if you can poke enough holes in the government's evidence without producing any of your own. E.g., OJ never took the stand.

Re radar unit being used from any angle. I read somewhere that the police get the most accurate reads when you are coming toward or going away from the police radar. I also read somewhere that they do not get a good read when the police radar's propagation is perpendicular to your line of movement due to Phase Locked Loop (PLL) error.

Please note that the above is just what I've heard. It's for info purposes only and you shouldn't rely on it. You should do your own research and/or consult an attorney.

AdrenalineX

I completely agree. BTW, I am also of Asian descent.

jupitersolo

A White Guy and a Black Guy do the same thing. A White Cop lets the White Guy go and gives the Black Guy a ticket for going 86 when he knows he was only going 80. The White Guy passed him (going faster, the 86) something is WRONG.

I'm White.

deke

Basicly both sides have to share the information they have so there are no surprises. I believe its called a "discovery package" out west.

It really depends on the unit. Some units need the forks but those are fairly old now a days. The new units are 100% internal and then it becomes a matter of was the officers training on the unit included in the discovery package. Any officers who deal in traffic will have enough time in/understanding from observing on what needs to happen. Hell I hope so as it is their job.
Any judge who sees a lack of legally required evidence and then still convicts on it would be in a world of trouble. All that being said a lot of states do not require a radar unit as the only acceptable piece of evidence. Theres pacing and eye-balling. Yup. eye balling. They are certified yearly to judge speed within a +- range..

. Yup. you dont need to get on the stand and say yes I was speeding for the cop. But if you said yes officer I was speeding when he was talking with you on the side of the road that could come back on you.

Radar units naturally work best due to their use of the doppler(sp) effect in a straight on or straight away angle. The margin of error when you put a few degrees of angle into it AKA cop in the median and you driving past really isnt enough to effect the read out.

deke

Well since you know all the facts of the case...

lumpulus

Wish I had a TL when I was 18.

Pay the ticket, you were caught red handed.

jupitersolo

I'm only going by what the guy said. It appears you do with all the BS you're spitting out.

trancemission

I think Ive had enough of this thread.