DuoDSG

Three long years ago, I had just barely scored my own 2004 Acura TL 5AT and I posted the following thread to ask for advice on what fluids/filters everyone recommended. The resulting thread turned into a gold mine of information, and has been my guide ever since.

You can see the original one here: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/best-fluids-756536/

That said, I wanted to return to the topic since some numbers (like my current mileage) may affect the results, new products have come out since, and to make sure what I get before I go crazy next weekend offers the best blend of protection and performance.

This is the plan so far:

• Oil- Redline 5W-30 (same rating as I've had before, has worked great in the hot summer/freezing winter combo here in northern Utah) OR Mobil1 EP 5W-30
• Oil filter- Royal Purple, part # 10-2867
• Trans fluid- Redline Racing 30304 (as compared with D4)
• Power Steering Fluid- Honda PS (already have a bottle)
• Engine coolant- Honda Type 2 (already have two gallons)
• Brake fluid- something that's DOT4 (not sure about brand yet)
• Cabin air filter- not an issue, since I replaced it not too long ago (have gone with ATP HA5 charcoal filter ever time, haven't loooked back)

That said, I've got a few questions that everyone's body of experience could help to answer regarding these choices:

1. My car just hit the 163,000 mile mark. Everyone and their dog swears by Redline, and I don't doubt it, so I'd like to use Redline as much as I can in my setup. However, considering my high mileage, should I go with the Redline formula, or go for an EP formula? Are there any others I should be considering?
2. With tranny fluid, Redline Racing is (judging by all the forum chatter) different, and superior, to D4. Anyone foresee any problems with me just going right into Racing?
3. As for the 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches, digging through parts listings tends to be a hassle. Anyone know the part numbers for these babies? I would replace them at the same time as the tranny fluid, they haven't been replaced as far as I know.
4. Brake Fluid- list your recommendations, if there's a certain brand you've used before
5. All fluids- some of these are hard to find necessary quantities for, including in the owner's manual and on the forum. Please correct my numbers if these are wrong:
   Oil- 5 quarts
   Tranny fluid- 9 quarts (?)
   PS- 12 fl oz (already have a bottle of it, that's the quantity it lists)
   Brake fluid- 1 liter (?)

As with any post, my deepest thanks for your time in reading, and your responses. You all have helped me keep my TL running from one end of the country to the other, and all who ride in it safe and sound. I hope to continue that streak

One love

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

if you do a 4x3 drain and fill of redline racing fluid type F I guarantee you'll be regretting it later on. Im guessing you didnt search for the right threads....I definitely dont swear by it.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

Yep I forsee a big problem, flaring/slipping 2-3rd gear shift at first, then gets worse and worse until 3-4th shift slips too. Then your transmission will be f-ed. And you will get this:

Paul05TL

Logan eh? very cool, I am down in Clearfield

I bought mine last month with 105k and now I am at 106800 not sure what previous owner used but I just wanted fresh fluids so went to my local shop and had them change the oil and do the drain/refill on the trans.... they use Valvoline. It's worked good in my Ford cars since that is what the shop uses and that is where I always go.

With the TL though I think I am going to just go get fresh fluids from Acura in both the engine and transmission and just keep running them. Really have no where to work on my car so doing just oil/trans fluid is a big pain.

Edit: as for part numbers for the Pressure switches they can be found here - https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/110-diy-guide-replacing-3rd-4th-gear-pressure-switch-3g-tl-2004-2006-a-729149/

I called Jody Wilkinson in SLC last week and was told that the 3rd was around $240 and the 4th was around 50 bucks? Anyone vouch for that?

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

i'll vouch for the fact that its overpriced lol. should be under $150 for all 3 switches combined.

dcmodels

Where do you find the ATP HA5 filter? thanks.

Paul05TL

Alright lol I thought I was getting had when I called Honda and they said close to $400 I was speechless, called Acura right after and priced them out and even the parts guy was shocked. Figured maybe $50 each so around $100 as the 04-06's Just have the two.

aBe 024

I got my filter on amazon around 15 bucks a while back. There's also rockauto that sells them around the same price or cheaper.

DuoDSG

^^ This


The nice thing is that with Amazon I was able to get it with free two-day shipping (with my Prime account), and the box has the rebate form inside so I got it for even cheaper than I did from RockAuto a few years back.

Paul- $150 is absolute highway robbery! I know Jody Wilkinson is overpriced (as all stealerships are, to varying degrees), but that number almost made me cry. I know that a long time ago I looked online for the OEM pressure switches and I never saw a price like that.

Then again, since my car has been out of warranty forever, I always do everything myself and take it to the Honda dealership up here in the rare event I absolutely must have them do work on it.

paperboy- I only found one thread that talked about easing into everything using D4 first and then eventually getting into racing, but that was a total of half a sentence. So not a whole lot of elaboration on the subject. Thank you for essentially saving my car

That said, then would D4 be the one I need for what I plan to do, or would I need to go even "lower"?

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

OP, with your high mileage...do not do a 3x3 ATF job. do a 1x3, see how the car reacts with the new fluid. if everything is peachy, go ahead and do another 1x3 within 2500 miles. if everything is honky dory, go ahead and do another 1x3 within 2500 miles.

you don't want to totally drain out your old ATF and replace with a newer, much different ATF 100% out of the gate. you want to slowly introduce the new fluid so that your car gets accustomed to it. if you had lower miles, you would have no problem doing a 3x3 in one shot. i did with my TL, but i only had 35k on the clock.

hope that helps.

TheBumbino

I heard in another thread the best bet is to use 1 quart of Redline D4 in the final flush and 2 quarts of Type F because you need some of the friction modifier. I'm currently running 3 quarts and going to run it until spring before I do my next flush seeing as I'm not really too far over the service interval and I have already changed it once.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

this is the thread I was referring to: https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/optimal-percentage-racing-atf-834299/

It's a good read for a lot of good info. There have also been couple of other people who did the 4x3 drain and fill with type F fluid and had transmission problems so definitely don't do too much racing fluid. I am just trying to help fellow acurazine members out because I dont want people to have to go through the same experience I did(rebuilt transmission).

DuoDSG

Sharksbreath- this absolutely helps. Thank you for taking the time to post, since it filled in the holes of information I was looking for

I have no problem spreading out an ATF drain and fill over many miles, especially since I'm shooting to maintain and preserve my engine as long as possible. I'm in no rush.

From all I've read, it seems that the "hierarchy" of these products, terms of performance, is Type F > D4 > Racing.

If that's correct, and I want to avoid transmission suicide by introducing a different ATF slowly (especially on my high mileage engine), should I just focus on some kind of Type F-D4 mix? As far as I'm concerned, any Redline product, along with replacing my pressure switches, will be an incredible improvement from what I have already, so jumping to Racing is not on my priority list. I would only do that if I got really bored, unless you see a tremendous advantage to just going with a mixture that incorporates Racing.


On a different side of the topic, I'm looking at using Motul 5.1 for the brake fluid (I'd get 1.5 ounces) since that seems to be the best bang for my buck, and relatively easy to do as well. No way I'm dropping $70 for a liter of Castrol SRF- I don't need that kind of performance. If anyone objects to that, by all means, slap me on the wrist

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

You don't, many do. Your transmission was already dying, AND you were racing your car when it was dying. Can't really take your opinion seriously.

Talk to Bruce (AckTL05) or Tim (AcuraOEMparts.com I believe). They should ship you them for $80-85.

Like SB said, do 1x3 every oil change to see how your transmission reacts to it. If you're worried about flaring (even though IHC says otherwise on the cause), put 3 qts of D4.

You're going to get ignorant, biased, or incorrect information from different members, so you just have to make a decision who you'll agree with.

Redline or Mobil EP are both great oils-- either would be fine. RP Filter is one of the best filters on the market. 9 Quarts is correct with the ATF, always have another quart just incase though.

Motul 5.1 is just fine

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

It is NOT only my opinion, there have been other members who have seen my threads and asked me what I should do. When I asked them what fluid they used, they said, you guess it, 4x3 drain and fill of redline type F fluid. I told them to switch back some oem and/or D4 fluid ASAP before its too late. And no, my transmission had nothing wrong with it before I put in the redline fluid, it ran perfectly. You think you know me just because I posted a couple racing stories in the racing subforum? Let me repeat, my transmission was 100% fine before the fluid change. People like you and IHC had to resort to saying that I installed my pressure switches wrong? You gotta be kidding me, they are very simple to install and I did triple check my work to be sure. Find me a member who has said that their transmission started flaring/slipping with OEM fluid, I dare you. After seeing the thread from inaccurate, I fully understand why my transmission had acted up. Hey, I was in the same boat as all of you guys earlier, I thought redline fluid was fluid from the heavens for these transmissions, but I was proven wrong. I actually have some tangible evidence to back up my statements, but do YOU? you think that this fluid is from the heavens just because a lot of people here praise it. I'm in no way saying this fluid is bad, I know its good but you CANNOT do a 4x3 drain and fill and expect your transmission to last.

Find me a member who had the transmission flaring with OEM fluid and then we'll talk. Other symptoms don't count because I'm only saying the type F fluid will cause flaring/slipping.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Then count how many transmission failed due to the fluid and the solenoids?

You're the .000001% which they're transmission 'supposedly' failed with Type F. Then you try to counteract my argument that I couldn't find a single user using OEM fluid that had flaring. Thus you don't realize I have no reason to try to find a flaring issue for OEM fluid, nor do I care. All I know is that Type-F/Redline and these solenoids saved MANY, if not hundreds, of transmission on these boards. Just cause you're one of the few bad apples with no reasonable proof that it was the fluid doesn't mean you have to bash the theory of the Type F. Every transmission thread regarding Type F that you read, you always respond with the same thing-- blaming the Type F fluid. Once you can give me any mechanical evidence, I don't see how you can bash a product when you don't know what caused your problem. Sounds ignorant to me.

But I'm done. 3G side of the forums has become a 'blame game' as of late. When something is wrong, they have to blame something they're not sure of. My engine had a bent rod 40k mile in before I did seafoam. Did I go in every Seafoam thread and tell them not to use it/not recommend it because of that? Nope. All I know is that they're several more variables that could've caused it easily. Until you know 100% with supporting proof, no point in disrespecting the theory or product.

TerpNation

wtf.

do i get that screen or is it for 07-08 models?

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

I already told you, I know Redline Type F fluid is good, I'm sure it can save from broken transmissions, however my argument is that it WILL cause flaring on the 2-3 gear shift. Just use it as Inaccurate recommends, with the optimal percentage and not too much. I'm in no way saying do not use it at all, I always add at the end that just be careful how much you put in. Hope that has cleared up any misunderstanding.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

not sure, but it shows all the check engine light codes that pop up...

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

I love you.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

so why havent ALL the 3g transmissions died with type f only?

if only a handfull expierience problems with type f and there are many others that have no problems....then i would say there was a pre existing problem in that trans before the type f was used.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

how many people have the FULL redline type f fluid in their transmission for a good amount of time? most people just do a mixture of type F and D4

libert69

iTrader: (7)

i had full amsoil type f for over 25,000 miles. 20000 of those miles were turbocharged. no problems here. no flaring

broke tranny on dyno at 450whp. not a type f related failure either

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

well even though its type F, it's not the redline brand....I cannot comment on amsoil fluids.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Technically its the same thing. Both has no FM aka which you were referring to that lead to 'flaring'.

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

paperboy, how many miles did you have on your TL when you did the 4x3? and what fluid did you use? all racing? a mixture? did you do the pressure switches?

this website has way too much false information and biased opinions. with the CORRECT mixture of d4 and racing, your transmission will be fine. i've been running redline for over 20k miles with nothing but positive things to say about it. i'll be doing another 1x3 in the next month. your transmission will not start flaring if you stick to the proper dosage. plain and simple.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Aaron I think he is saying all of Racing will cause flaring. Technically, through IHC, that is not the reason (the FM amount).

SharksBreath

iTrader: (33)

i knew i was missing something, just reread paperboy's tranny thread. i think either your tranny was already going out, or you muffed up the pressure switches install which WOULD explain why yours failed. nothing to do with the fluid.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=820828&page=3

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

I had about 80k when I did the 4x3, all 12 bottles of redline type F racing fluid. Also did the pressure switches about the same time. Couples weeks after that, symptoms started happening.

Yes, that's all I was saying. Yes, redline fluid may save your transmission from other problems, but I'm ONLY saying it causes flaring with a FULL 4x3 mixture. I totally agree a half mixture of some sort with the D4 is great...just not the whole thing.

I am in no way inexperienced when it comes to working on cars, and the switches were a simple install, there was nothing to mess up. However, I gave IHC the benefit of the doubt so I took out my pressure switches THREE times. Of course I wanted IHC to be right, did I want to pay 2k+ for a rebuild? Of course not. I took them out, examined all three switches and I also looked at my friend's TL-S at the time to check they are the same part(they have different color sockets each). And re-installed them, checking everything....Each time I did it, I hoped IHC was somehow right, but that was not the case....so eventually I took it to a reputable shop to look at it. They agreed I needed a rebuild after checking out the car. If it was the pressure switches causing my issue, a rebuild would NOT have worked, since a rebuild only changes out the internal parts. After the rebuild, the shop put in OEM fluid, and it's ran perfect ever since. I only trusted the best to work on my car since I do not want any mickey mouse work, after some recommendations I took it to Gushi auto repair, the owner there is the father of the famous drifter ken gushi. http://www.gushiautointl.com/

optical24

When I did my 3x3 ATF flush I first used 3 quarts of D4, then next flush with another 3 quarts of D4, and lastly, i used 3 quarts of Type F. Now, I use 2 quarts of Redline D4 and 1 quart of Type F.

JJH

iTrader: (1)

My transmission is most likely going to be prone to problems down the road. I changed out my pressure switches and switched to 100% type-F (Redline) at ~130k miles. I did this at the end of last winter once it was already starting to warm up outside.

One problem that I notice now that it's cold outside is my transmission will sometimes lag shift when I first drive the car. I don't know if this is because of the absence of friction modifiers and the difference in viscosity in my fluids or what...but there is definitely a lag until it warms up. Does that make sense to anyone?

I hate cars

I have to keep this short because I'm on my phone, I'll elaborate later. I didn't read the rest of this thread I tend not to read the replies in these types of threads.

Keep using the Redline. The reason for using EP or high mileage oils I'd because we assume rod and main clearances have opened up from wear and we need a thicker oil to maintain oil pressure and to float the crank. At 160,000 more than likely you have very, very little wear. In fact if you tore it down now, it would probably come on on the loose side of new clearances. Plus you're already running one grade thicker than factory plus an oil that's already on the thick end of a 5w-30 and doesn't thin out as much when really hot or thicken as much when cold. Plus it already has the common "high mileage" additives such as zddp. It also cleans as well as the better cleaning Hm oils. In other words you would be downgrading by going with a HM or EP oil.

RP filter is the best on the market whether its filtration, flow, or durability you're after.

For the brake fluid, unless you live in a VERY cold place, Motul 600 is very hard to beat. This fluid is just a little thicker than DOT4 specs but I've tried the really thin stuff, the 5.1 fluid and now I'm running this fluid and I have better pedal feel with the thicker fluid and ABS operation is great. The main reason I recommend it is the very high dry boiling point but even more importantly, the very high wet boiling point which is more like real world conditions where there will be some moisture in the system.

For power steering, Amsoil works great and its the only aftermarket fluid with the right viscosity and additional zinc the TL needs. Being a synthetic you notice a more consistent and fluid steering feel especially from cold to hot along with reduced wear on the system. I suggest sucking the old fluid out with a turkey basted once a year. Just a single drain and fill once a year will prevent you from ever having to flush the system and the fluid will always be fresher and cleaner than doing it the factory way.

Same thing with the coolant. Drain and fill the radiator every 2-3 years and you never have to flush it. The radiator uses one gallon. Use the Honda fluid. I personally mix it with distiller water to give a 70/30 mix. All the premix stuff is, is distilled water and coolant , 50/50 anyway. 50/50 is good for the most extreme climates but if you live on an area that rarely gets below 0F a 70/30 is better for summer use since water transfers heat better than coolant. In other words it will cool better the more distilled water it has. You just need enough to lube the water pump and prevent freezing in which 70/30 is overkill in most areas.

A very few people reported flaring on type f fluid though its not traditional flaring, it's the transmission binding which goes unnoticed on factory fluid but the higher friction of the type f let the drag of a lower gear raise engine rpm. It's a transmission problem that the fluid brings to light. Use a half and half mix if you want to be safe. I have 112,000 miles, around 40,000 on the type f and no flaring. Using the straight racing fluid which is pretty thick in a cold winter can cause a lag until it warms up. The Amsoil racing fluid is a good alternative since its stock viscosity. Switches should be done every 2-3 years.

dcmodels

Is there more than one Amsoil power steering fluid? I am confused, because the following information, which is taken from the MSDS for each manufacturer, shows that the Amsoil Multi-Vehicle Power steering fluid does *not* have the same viscosity as the Honda PSF. Honda OEM PSF, and aftermarket PSF specifically made for Honda use, has a higher viscosity than any other PSF available for any other vehicle. The dates in RED at the end of each line, are the dates of the MSDS which I used for this data.

I listed the GM DEX-III ATF because some older vehicles have used ATF in place of PSF. Its listed just as a viscosity reference point.

The Amsoil website lists a lot of applicable vehicles for its PSF, but Honda is not one of them. And the Amsoil MSDS does not list zinc as one of the components - actually, no specific chemicals are listed.

(Power Steering Fluids)
Viscosity Comparison cSt @ 100 C/ 40 C/ Brookfield cP @ -40 C
12.6/ 56.46/ ..... = Champion Brands LLC, PSF (synthetic, for Honda, VI-230) 12/2011
12.26/46.01/ ..... = Honda OEM PSF-S product code 1657 (Idemitsu) 11/30/2010
xxxx/ 46.01/ ..... = Valvoline Pyroil HPS-12 (for Honda) 01/13/2011
11.7/ 72/ ........ = Penrite HPSO-001 (synthetic) (for Honda, AU only) October 2008
11.3/ 53.7/ 64,000 = Pennacle Resources PSF-2 (for Honda) ??
xxxx/ 40/ ........ = GM OEM PSF (GM p/n 1050017, TEXACO manuf.) 10/29/1998
7.7/. 34/ ........ = GM OEM Dexron III (DISCONTINUED - see GM/ MTTC)
7.46/ 33.76/ 5,690 = AmsOil Multi-Vehicle PSF (Synthetic) 01/15/2012
6.47/ 34.7/ 18,000 = Redline PSF (Synthetic, GM p/n 1050017) 1/07/2011
6.1/. 28.6/ ...... = Texaco cold climate 14315 (semi-Synthetic, GM p/n 12345867)10/09/2003
6.0/. 19/... 1,100 = Pentosin CHF-11S (Synthetic) ??

nfnsquared

Sure looks like Amsoil has removed the Honda spec from it's PS fluid compatibility list. I'm not sure when that changed. Wonder if they had complaints?

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/psf.aspx

If you run a build list from it's product application guide page, it says "no Amsoil product recommendation" (at least for a 2004 TL):

http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/vehic...spx?zo=1642716

I sure wouldn't use any PS fluid other than OEM or one that says it's specifically meets Honda specs. I've used non-OEM PS fluid made for Honda with no issues bought at O'Reilly, think it was Bardahl or O'reilly brand, can't remember. It has since all been totally replaced with OEM due to the PS hose recall.

I hate cars

That's really good to know. I got the information back in '07-ish. Their tech line mentioned the zinc. I'm glad I'm stocked up on the old stuff. It looks like Redline D4 or 5w-20 will go in it next time I need to buy some fluid. I wonder if Honda is still on their approved list. In fact I'm going to order an additional quart of 5w-30 , a quart of 5w-20, and a quart of D4 next time I order oil to begin experimenting.

I hate cars

One thing that needs to be mentioned is you can go a little thinner with a good synthetic base stock. HTHS still applies here. Redline 5w-30 will most likely match the viscosity requirements, going to look it up right now.

Edit: looks like Redline 0w-30 will be the first one to go in there. Still has a 3.2 HTHS and a good viscosity index with few VIIs.

The high temp ATF is very tempting as well.

nfnsquared

Looks like Amsoil reformulated it in August, 2012. Would be interesting to compare the old and new spec sheets to see what change in formulation caused Amsoil to remove Honda from the suitability list:

http://news.yahoo.com/amsoil-announc...170104152.html

I hate cars

There it is, it's following the trends of going thinner. I think I still have a couple bottles of the older stuff, at least a year old if not older. I'll try and look at them today but I'm in the middle of moving and working all weekend so time is short.

nfnsquared

Meh, the viscosity was only 7.46 in Jan 2012, so it hasn't matched Honda viscosity for the whole last year at least, maybe longer (as already noted by dcmodels):

http://www.amsoil.com/msds/psf.pdf

^^^^ dated Jan 15, 2012.

I hate cars

Do you have a point? It matched Honda viscosity at one time (actually it was a little thinner) and now it doesn't. As the base oil gets better you don't need as high of a viscosity. With a higher HTHS you can go with a lower viscosity. In the case of a cheap fluid it uses a higher viscosity as a bandaid to bring up HTHS. So don't take everything at face value. As long as adequate pressure is maintained it's not a big deal to run a thinner fluid. I might run the high temp ATF after all, at 10cSt it's more than thick enough.