Bitium

I said it once, now I'll repeat myself......The TL will have an AWD platform. I did say it was going to be implemented on the 05 TL, but most likely the 06 TL. :worship:

They are going to introduce the PAX system (run-flat tires / pressure monitoring) Thanks to the system there will be no need for the spare tire, allowing the TL to have enough space to fit the SH-AWD. Plus if you think about it the rear suspension hasn't changed in over 5 years, so is time to change. I can't wait to see the new RL.

http://world.honda.com/news/2004/4040401.html

żGotJazz?

OK ... Looks pretty cool (and about time, eh?).

I'll wait about 4-5 years for them to work out all the bugs first before I would purchase, though.

danno

Wow, should`ve taken a 2YEAR lease! :worship:

BrandHdriver

I wonder how much acceleration will be lost by an AWD platform?

My only anecdotal experience is having owned an '00 Odyssey and a '03 Pilot at the same time - very similar powerplant (Pilot had slightly higher HP) and similar vehicle weight. The Odyssey would kill the Pilot in acceleration, though. Admittedly, the Pilot was swinging much higher weight tires than the Odyssey.

My '04 TL gets occasional first-gear wheelspin (5AT), but I'm not sure that I'd want to lose acceleration to gain traction (I don't live up north).

No spare - gives me the chills.

TorontoTL

Wow that sounds amazing. Much more advanced than other systems. The G35's Altezza sounds so simple in contrast as doest the Quattro. I think the RL is going to do quite well as a performance sedan with a system like that. Hopefully the TL will get the AWD for a performance version in the near future. No more complaints about torque steer I guess.

UminChu

I'm curious if they'd even make AWD available with 6MT.

havenlock

I'm a little lost. So do they plan to have this on the 05 RL only? And there won't be a spare tire?

mdao

For the torque steer to be gone, you need to have the longitudinal engine so the driveshaft are of the same length

moreace

Damn, when I trade my TL in to upgrade in 2 years I will lose my shirt

s54

By the time I'm ready to get rid of my 04 they will have the bugs worked out (by 07?) I have enough minor-but-still-annoying-bugs in my 04 that I would not buy a first-year redesign again... S

MyJohnson

Looks like an awesome idea, but complicated. Now do I wait for it to get to the TL or buy a TL and wait for the bugs to be worked out on all platforms? Hmm

MyJohnson

Hey, this was released on 1 April 04. You sure this isn't an April fool's? 'Course, we've all heard rumors of the '05 being AWD.

Maybe I should spread the April fools rumor that the TL is getting it for '05.

Yeah, thats it, yeah.....

(alright, I've stopped typing to myself. Hope I don't start arguing with myself) :ar15: :chainsaw:

Tristero

Thanks for sharing the link! Boy it sounds great great!


The SH-AWD is much more like Infiniti's ATESSA than the AWD systems of Audi or BMW. Audi and BMW are always AWD; ALTESSA only kicks in under certain conditions, making the car a RWD in most cases. There is a great comparison of AWD in the Audi and G35 in the April 2004 issue of Automobile Magazine.

The SH-AWD sounds great, but we should all be prepared for the enthusiast press (Car & Drover, etc.) to hate it. After all, it still operates (at least by the sound of it) with a FWD bias, to wit:

"...This information is then conveyed to the rear differential, where direct electromagnetic clutches continuously regulate and vary front-rear torque distribution between ratios of 30:70 and 70:30, and lateral torque distribution in the rear wheels between ratios of 100:0 and 0:100. ..."

The enthusiast press (i.e. C&D, Motortrend, etc.) is going to describe these ratios as unacceptable and limiting, relative to BMW and ATTESSA because those systems remain prominently rear-biased. :chainsaw: (BMW is something like 32:68 ratio front:rear and the range on the ATTESSA runs from 0:100 to 50:50, depending on conditions. I don't know the Audi's front:rear ratio, but my guess is that it is 50:50.)

Anyway, you see where I am going. The system will undoubtedly work like a dream (although initially it may need to have a few kinks worked out) but the enthusiast press will still complain. Just a prediction ...

Bitium

Shit you must not know how it works.

The ATTESA E-TS AWD system has always been my favorite, specially on the R34, but I very impress with the new honda system.

The ratios of 30:70 means that the car will continuously adjust from 30:70 meaning the car could be at 50:50 60:40 45:55 with a min of 30 and max of 70 and viseversa. Amazing that the car has a 100:0 lateral ratio for the Rear. This is awesome for cornering. Just like the Skyline R34 this system uses the input of the driver (steering angle).

I can't wait to see this system in action.....

Tristero

I know exactly how it works. You did not follow my logic. The enthusiast folks who hate FWD are going to complain about the 30:70 to 70:30 (front:rear) range of the SH-AWD on Acuras. They will claim that it is FWD biased.

They will compare it to ATTESSA, which ranges from 0:100 to 50:50 (front:rear), which they will deem superior because it is still biased toward RWD in most driving conditions...

My point--possibly too belabored--is that the FWD bias of the SH-AWD will be grist for the enthusiast press will rain on the parade (and boy don't love they love to complain...) In other words, I was pissing and moaning about the Car & Driver folks, not critiqizing the SH-AWD.

Like you, I think it will be very cool in action. ...

gstais

Unless I am missing something, where does it say in the article that this AWD system will be available for the TL. Only the RL is mentioned (in both the title and the main text). There is not even a hint that this will be made available for the TL.

I guess one can conclude that would be Honda's next logical step, but until it is actually stated in a Press Release or other media communication, I wouldn't get too excited, or make any trade-in plans just yet.

Just my 2-cents.

fla-tls

Sounds great! But, that thing's so complex it's going to be in the shop every other week.....

I'm with GotJazz on waiting a few years.

Bitium

I get your point :smackhead

Bitium

Nothing says that is coming out for the TL....it was just a personal assumption....I was just :bigun2: the anti FWD honda drivers.....now that honda seems to have a real awesome drive platform.

blufox

will this be an after market option for the 04 TL owner bc i heard someone say the was space left for it

gstais

That's a complete turnoaround from your initial post that started this thread. I would suggest, that if in the future, you are going to make statements such as these, they be based on fact, not emotion or your intuition (wishful thinking).

Regards,

rets

05RL seems so far so good. I should buy one... SH-AWD seems very high tech.

neuronbob

If they put this in the TL, I will seriously have to consider losing my shirt to trade. Damn, I should have leased.

Just kidding, I love this car as is.

harddrivin1le

That's not true; Audi has had a solution for years:

http://caranddriver.radicalmedia.com..._95/audi2.html

TLover

Interesting stuff.

harddrivin1le

Audi was putting that in their lowest level car (A4) 9 model years ago...

bunyip

What is all this talk of torque steer? Admitadly I haven't had hte car long, but coming from an 02 Saab 9-3, the TL has no torque steer to me at least. Anyway, this is an interesting examination of the TL over at TOV.

http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=197549

Bunyip.

1SICKLEX

Again, if the Accord goes AWD so will the TL. THe TL is an Accord and it would DEFEAT the whole purpose of cost cutting platform sharing what is proposed here.

The RL is a whole new car, so it can have this new AWD system from the start. THe TL was designed as an Accord from the start. No one just slaps on AWD to an existing platform.

I do think Acura is going in the right step with AWD, FWD biased or not.

eaRL

If and when they do implement this in the TL, no matter what year it is, it will handle like a dream. This thing will be smooth as butter on the straights and down right nasty in a sharp curve. You will pray for curves while driving this thing. With front-and-rear / left-and-right power distribution & left-and-right rear wheel torque control.

You can take a sharp curve with 100% of the power to the rear wheels and, furthermore, distribution of torque in the range of 0% to 100% between the inside and outside rear wheels.

harddrivin1le

The best performance cars in the world aren't AWD.

AWD adds WEIGHT, adds cost, adds complexity and decreases fuel efficiency.

And it provides NO handling benefits on dry pavement.

This has been known for some time, since Audi has offered front and AWD versions of the same cars for many, many years (for purposes of comparison).

TLover

I'm assuming you mean "decreases" fuel efficiency. But AWD does make it easier for the novice driver to push the car harder.

harddrivin1le

Yes...and I changed it. See above post.

Front wheel drive is quite safe for novices.

Rear wheel drive is best for novices who want to join the advanced learning class.

An AWD system adds weight and driveline friction. That requires more power just to break-even in terms of acceleration. It is not a handling panacea.

The TL should use Audi's front suspension design as I mentioned above.

TLover

Yeah but is it patented or anything?

Tristero

The SH-AWD will not have a 0:100 fw:rw ratio, at least according to the article being cited. It will range between 30:70 and 70:30. Only G35x, with ATTESSA has the 0:100 fw:rw ratio that ranges to 50:50. so, if that's what you want, you know where to get it.

The SH-AWD will undoubtedly benefit the handling of the TL at the extremes however. This is because it will probably (I am presuming here) create a more equitable 50:50 weight distribution, which is valuable for good handling, regardless of FWD or RWD.

harddrivin1le

I'm sure it is...

Companies pay patent rights for that type of thing, just as Porsche paid Mitsubishi patent rights to use their balance shaft design in their 944.

harddrivin1le

But added weight is BAD for handling (and acceleration).

I'd like to see an AWD TL as well, though I'd want to see some REAL power (~ 350 HP) accompany it.

Tristero

I am also presuming that Acura would find ways to keep weight constant; it seems to me that goes without saying, but it nonetheless should have been said in my post.

So let me rephrase. A TL with an SH-AWD system would likely be more balanced, closer to 50:50 and not 60:40. Also, I suspect that they would try to keep the weight/overall size constant, for purposes of accleration and handing.

blufox

so do u guys think this will show up as an aftermarket option in the 04s

harddrivin1le

They're going to keep the weight constant even after they add all of the AWD hardware? I'm not aware of ANY manufacturer (including Porsche) that's been able to accomplish that feat.

AWD will mandate MORE POWER in order to maintain existing levels of acceleration.

Tristero

Come-on Dude! You have got to be kidding, right? So, when I take a moment and acknowledge your post and then change mine, you are going to keep correcting me. Please. I had to unsubscribe to a couple previous threads because of the insanity. Now I have to block this one. Do you wonder why there's an effort to ban your posts????

Please.