harddrivin1le

Check the weights.

I'm seeing ~ 150 less for the GT2.

Here's what I see for the GT3:

"The 2004 Porsche 911 GT3 weighs in at a mere 3043 pounds, so each of its 380 horsepower has less than eight pounds to propel. "

EDIT:

This indictates that the GT2 is slightly heavier (which makes sense, since it has twin turbos and all of the hardware to support them).

http://www.autointell.com/sports_car...he-911-gt2.htm

brahtw8

Porsche's official website does list the GT3 at 3043 pounds.

HOWEVER, the GT2 is listed at 3131 pounds. 2800 pounds is far too low for any stock GT2. Also, the GT2 now has 477 hp.

http://content2.us.porsche.com/prod/...specifications

harddrivin1le

2,8XX seemed light...

I posted the results above (EDITED)

The GT2 will weigh more, since it has twin turbos plus the plumbing/intercoolers to support them.

That GT2 must go pretty good.

brahtw8

Its primary advantage is top speed, for which Porsche claims 198 MPH versus 190 for the GT3. Given the price disparity and the nearly equal acceleration (Porsche claims 4.0 0-60 for the GT2 and 4.3 for the GT3, both of which are a bit conservative, as they should be), it is not surprising the GT3's introduction has put the GT2 on the back burner. From what I understand it is a better car to drive than the GT2.

harddrivin1le

The bottom line is that Porsche chose rear wheel drive for both of their ultimate performance, Regular Production Street cars, despite the fact that AWD components were readily available for both cars (from the 911 Turbo).

That's the main point I was trying to make.

Most ultimate performance cars are rear wheel drive...

Lambo's new V10 car is AWD, but that's a rare exception rather than the norm.

GTFISH

Exactly. I did too until I saw the results first hand.

harddrivin1le

A 911 (with a rear mounted engine) is not the typical car.

We all know that car's history with regard to lift throttle/terminal oversteer.

I can see where AWD could be of some benefit to that particular platform in any situation that's less than a professional driver on a dry track.

Shoofin

The car isn't even that bad in the inclement weather, why would people need AWD so badly to replace a front wheel drive car?
Ed

GTFISH

The GT3 is a better track car IMO. The GT2's power difference is very noticeable, maybe not in 0-60 but in the 80-140 range it is incredible. I have driven 996 factory race cars that weigh 2600lbs that don't have the same acceleration as a stock GT2.

PS how can I upload an image?

harddrivin1le

I can't argue any of that.

My only point is that both are RWD, despite the fact that existing AWD hardware was readily available (from the regular Turbo).

harddrivin1le

Just cut/paste your link like this (with no spaces):

[img]YOURLINK[/img]

GTFISH

The GT3 had to be RWD as it was the car the GT3RSR race car was homologated from.

I have read article where Walter Rohlr (Porsche chief test driver) did say that 99% of the people would be faster in a 996TT but that the GT2 is ultimately faster in capable hands.

The 911's lift throttle oversteer in late models is way over stated. These cars come set up to understeer and be pretty benign. Once you figure out how to drive one the lift throttle oversteer is your friend and will help steer the car. I would not describe a modern 911 (even the GT2) as wicked handling.

harddrivin1le

Those are all reasonable statements that can't really be argued with.

Perhaps surprisingly, my 1LE Z28 can produce some lift-throttle-oversteer @ elevated speeds. (It understeer in lower speed corners).

harddrivin1le

Those are all reasonable statements that can't really be argued with.

Perhaps surprisingly, my 1LE Z28 can produce some lift-throttle-oversteer @ elevated speeds. (It understeers in lower speed corners).

harddrivin1le

double post...sorry

brahtw8

I don't think that is particularly surprising. I know that the general conception is that throttle induces oversteer in a RWD car, which is true for the most part, but lifting in a corner in a RWD car can easily result in oversteer and/or a spin, primarily as a result of the weight transfer and its effect on the traction of the rear tires, as I understand it. That rear end can get very light if you lift of the throttle. My NSX displays the same behavior, as did my BMW.

GTFISH

Cars don't over rule the laws of physics regardless of where the engine or drive wheels are. In some cars it is more noticeable than others though.

rynpamn21

run flat tires? hmm that means that you can't get aftermarket rims then...and if you do you will totally defeat the purpose of the run flat tires....

harddrivin1le

It's far more predominant in this 1LE car (even @ speeds beyond 100 MPH (in long sweepers)) than it is in non 1LE F-bodies.

Neither of my two 5.0 Mustangs (both bought new) were anything like this.

Many RWD cars (particularly American) are "dumbed down" such that lifting the throttle won't produce that kind of effect. I was pleased that GM saw fit to do something right (for a change) in a relatively low priced car.

I've no problem believing that an NSX or 3/5 series would display similar traits.

harddrivin1le

Some vehicles are so dumbed down and/or under-powered that ANY form of oversteer is essentially impossible.

An old '80 Corolla I had understeered beyond belief - under any condition short of intentionally TRYING (really hard) to do otherwise. (A large after-market anti-roll bar and some inexpensive gas shocks worked wonders in transforming the handling dynamics of that car.)

Oversteer is considered "dangerous" for the typical Joe while understeer is considered "safe." The vast majority of "everyday drivers" are tuned accordingly.

TLover

Agree 100 percent. Although I tuned my CRX's suspension so tight I could get throttle-induced or lift-throttle oversteer. Man that lil car was so much fun.

harddrivin1le

The 1LE will do either...right up into very low triple digits...with the bone stock suspension.

I think that's pretty respectable for a mass produced (F-Body) vehicle that could be had for ~ $21,300 and weighs ~ 3,400 pounds (curb weight).

Again, I realize that the car had many shortcomings (interior in particular). And it's far from "refined."

John Heinricy chose the 1LE specific suspension mods and he did a very good job.

TLover

My friend still has his 96 Camaro, and my other buddy had a 95. Those things are wicked fast (both had the 3" Borla exhaust), and not just in a straight line either (both cars had Eibach springs w/yellow Konis).

1SICKLEX

Both GT2 and GT3 RWD. GT3 is positioned between the 4WS and Turbo. THe GT2 is over the Turbo, under the Carerra GT.
Most magazines think the new GT3 is the best 911 ever built. It is the most powerful normal aspirated Porsche. Both are serious track cars.

GTFISH

I am not talking about your daily drivers. You keep changing back and forth. Believe me I have driven several race cars that were FWD and they were nice and tail happy. Just get about 70lbs of air in the rear tires and plenty of rear sway bar and you are there.

TLover

Well, getting back to the original topic: An AWD TL would be so sweet. I know what my next car will be.