djesuna

Searched for the title & publisher, and didn't see this article posted yet, so my apologies if this is a repost. I was looking for some info in the 3G garage to see how often people normally change their oil the other day. I think this article sheds some more light on that topic. I got my oil changed today and my mechanic told me about my '06 TL: "I wouldnt' go more than 5000 without getting the oil changed."

link

Hope this helps!

john caravello

Good article. In other words...Trust Honda/Acuras MID for oil change intervals.

HiTEC

I personally up until recently have changed my oil with syth every 3months/3000 miles. I've been doing this for the past 16 years. I recently woke and up figured I'm flushing my money down the toilet and just follow the manufactures recommendations. I think maybe if I would using dino oil, I would still do the 3/3000, but synth can go a lot longer than 3/3000. I've been doing my wifes car every 6000 (like the book says), and I'm going to just follow the MID on my car.

On my wifes last car (Mercedes), we just followed the computer and it had us doing it about every 12,000 miles. It did specify Mobil 1 oil though. Won't take dino to 12,000 miles.

sixsixfour

since the TL engine inherently inst *hard* on the oil as a turbo or supercharged engine, i was keen to follow what the MID says. but with that said, i wasnt going to follow the MID having regular oil inside. it would be synthetic oil from the first oil change onwards.

JPA3

I have 3,500 on my 07 TL-S and it is showing 50% oil life left. I was bored and early for an appointment yesterday so started playing with the NAVI and found and called the closest dealer. The service advisor told me to NOT go by the MID, to change it at 3,000 - 3,500 miles. I questioned him like 3 times, and he kept repeating that "I could follow the MID but the dealer recommends 3,000 - 3,500 because of the hot S Florida weather."

I kind of agree that heat is harsher, and have always changed my oil at 3,500 in other cars (Nissans and Infinitis) but now I am completely puzzled.

My Dad says follow the MID like he does with his 2006 Civic

lil12002

so do we use syth oil in our TL's? i havent changed mine i just got it 1 month ago...

pimpin-tl

We get hotter weather here in South Texas compared to Florida. And I can tell you the dealers here say follow the MID. That dealer you talked to just wants to make extra money. Just use a good synthetic oil and even if it gets to 120 degrees out there your oil will be fine for the MID interval.

I personally would not go more than 6k on a dino oil though. Synthetic your perfectly safe. Castrol GTX or the German Blend of Castrol for Dino oil is the best one for a 6k interval.

jackasswhy

i put mobil 1 supersyn for my first oil change. and for the 2nd oil change im gonna wait 6 or 7k miles then change it with synthetic

ChuckDu

1) we need to keep our profits up.
2) my pay depends on it.
3) I'm a service advisor and I lie.

Just think, if a dealership does as little as 10 oil changes a day, 6 days a week for 52 weeks that's 3200 oil changes a year. If he charges $25 per oil change and makes a profit of $10 per oil change that's $32000 a year profit. Cut that profit in half because OCIs just cdoubled and the dealership loses $16,000 per year. My guess is that dealership's profit on oil changes is way more than that.

When I got my 05 TL, I was nervous about the maintenance minder recommendations, too. So for the first six oil changes, I sent my used oil out to get tested. The OCIs were 2500 miles, 3500 miles and then every 5500 to 6600 miles afterwards. In every case (after break-in) the used oil analysis showed that a) the viscosity was within range, b) the oil was not dirty, c) wear numbers were low and d) there was enough additive pack left to continue using the oil for several thousand miles more. Based on those initial samples I've gained complete trust in the maintenance minder recommendations to the point that I don't feel I need to perform the UOAs anymore.

By the way, I used either Motorcraft Synblend 5W-20 or Havoline dino 5W-20 oil at each oil change. The cost per quart was never more than $2.30.

There are a ton of threads on the forum that discussed this issue. If you really want to delve into the subject, head on over to BITOG. Read what you like and come to the conclusion you want. My guess is that few will change their habits so that they have peace of mind.

gurneyeagle

I'm old school. I use Mobil 1 and change my oil every 6,000 miles.

It comes down to what you are comfortable with. Me, I don't trust the MID.

gurney

Tecciztecatl

I used to follow the MID, but after doing more research I change mine every 7.5k with Mobil1 and Mobil1 Filter ... and the oil looks and tested fine. No need wasting the stuff when the tests show it is still in great condition.

Do your research on the synthetics and you'll find the same ... I love my car and would never do anything to hurt her.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Acura may not care/really want your car to last more than 100,000 miles....they want you back to buy a new one. I don't think the MID is accurate.

Dealers want you coming back for overpriced oil changed. I don't think they are accurate.

True opinions will only come from fellow owners. I say it all depends on what kind of oil and driving style/conditions. The more often the better even if you think you're flushing $$ down, you'll sleep better.

I run M1 Extended Performance guaranteed for 15k miles but I bet the filter can't handle that long interval. I plan to change at about 7500mi.

trancemission

same here gurney

pimpin-tl

And if you actually tested the oil you would know that M1 can't go 15k of miles on most cars. It barely can go past 7500 miles. You NEED to change it at 7500 miles at the most especially with M1 new formula.

Read bobistheoilguy.com for more info on oils. MID knows how the car is driven and when it thinks to change the oil. It can't measure the oil and if its good still or not. But if you don't follow the MID and extend your oil to 15k like your doing, you just voided your warranty even with receipts.

Black_05_TL_6SP

When I first got the car, I did an initial oil change at 3000 and at 7500. This was fro break in purpose, both where Syn. Now I run the Syn in it and I am able to get the 6000-7500 out of it. I follow the MID.

You can always check your oil to see how dirty it really is. As far as break down, you would need to get it tested. For those that get there oil changed at the dealer, they should be putting in a Semi-Syn anyway, as that is what is recommend.

As for the dealer telling you to come in every 3000, crazy!!!! On a syn and normally driving, that should not be the case.

As for the dealer not wanting your car to last a 100,000 miles, are you nuts!!!!!!! Other then Toyota, Hondas are one of the most common cars with 100,000+ miles on them. A manufacturer would not do harm to a car just to make you get rid of it at a certain mileage.

Why someone would think to dispose of a car just because it got to a certain mileage just amazes me. I know there are a lot of people on the forums that have older Acuras/Hondas, they would never part with regardless of mileage.

In the end, you will do what you feel is correct, but do your research first. I have good faith in the MID, and will continue to use it. If you are not using a semi-synthetic or a full synthetic, then I would suggest changing to it.

Jason

ironviet

I can be anal when caring for my car but I actually check the dip stick once a week. I usually do it when washing the car or putting in some fuel. I use synthetic (Redline, Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Mobil 1 which is the most readily available type). I drive a lot so if the oil turns too dark, I get an oil change but if it is clear as new I wait til 600 miles of 4-5 months then I do it regardless. IMHO the oil may still be good but I am skeptical the filters can last as long.

HiTEC

Judging life span left on oil by it's color is going to be far from accurate. If we all did that we'd be changing our oil every 500 miles. Just because oil is dark colored doesn't mean it's reached end of life, far from it.

mishar

Do you thrust the rest of Acura engineering or this is only thing that they screwed?

mishar

Do you trust the rest of Acura engineering or this is only thing that they screwed?

HiTEC

From my experience so far, is that following the MID for oil changes put me somewhere around 6k miles per change. I wouldn't say the MID oil monitor is "screwed"?

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Of course Japanese cars will far surpass 100k miles. They're known for reliability and durability. And keeping this reputation is important to them.

But trust the manufacturer if you want. They are all about making money in the end and they will want you back for a new car anytime preferrably before too long. They will lie to you. I bet if I went to the dealer with a 2nd Gen TL to just browse they would tell me it's time to upgrade and give me some BS reasons.


Do you really think they would NEVER try to harm you? Hmm I don't know. (I have a problem trusting anybody) Here's what I've noticed; most of the time any new car will run pretty close to perfect in it's early years. But you ever notice once you cross that 4yr/50k warranty all of a sudden things start going wrong? It's almost like they engineer it like that. You hardly get to fix anything under warranty and then you're paying out of pocket now. You think "if only this happened 5k ago it would have been under warranty" Coincidence some say? I've seen it on unreliable cars like a Mercedes and the king of reliablity a Camry. Weird.

We are told to blindly trust the MID...how does it REALLY work? We think we know but only an Acura engineer would know.

Trust your instincts.

Nakamichi

On another car I have, been changing oil every 17500 miles or year (which ever comes first)... 11 years later, that car is still running strong and the engine block and head is still clean as a whistle.

mishar

Oil change intervals for European cars are way longer. That includes Hondas. No matter that engines are smaller, highway speeds higher and climate harsher.

ayethetiense

Here is the deal. There are a lot of guys out there that are really anal and they actually get their oil sent to a lab after they change it to have it analyzed. It's like a getting your blood checked. Looks for different things in there that may cause problems in the near future.

Most importantly, there is usually plenty of oil life left.

I have a CAI and that means more dirt in my oil automatically. You guys need to take that into consideration and it is a huge factor. I personally use Synthetic oil so it "has longer life" then regular oil. But, I change it as the MID says to. Longer then 3k but not excessive.

If I didnt have a CAI I would change it less often.

MobyDickDog

Great chit chat on oil changes. Don't forget about that little itty bitty oil FILTER for the guys going high mileage before your oil change. The MID does not monitor the oil filter.

cristphoto

I change my oil based on the MID readings which on average typically means about 7000 miles. I always use Mobil 1 synthetic however.

Formula 350

A question for the people who keep saying... "I am going to change my oil at 3,000 miles no matter what the company says"...

So, do you have a degree in the fine art of 'oil'??? Do you spend billions on research and development? Do you warranty your decision?? How much true research have you done??

Likely answer... NO, NO, NO, None....

I think I will follow the MID... why would they go to the expense of putting this in your car if it does not work???

Nakamichi

I agree. But the car I do this on is a Toyota Camry w/ 3.0L engine that's prone to engine sludge.

The car manual states the changing intervals at every 3750 miles. I've probably lucked out unlike those other people with sludged up Toyota engines, but I'm sure using synthetic fluid and matched filter (Amsoil in this case) played a role.

Though I wouldn't do this on the any car, at least not while it's under warranty. Toyota would fix any sludged up engines *due to the lawsuit*, but only for people who strictly followed the manufacturer's intervals.

x03BlackAccV6x

I love how everyone assumes the dealer is lying to them about oil change intervals. Let me ask all of you guys a question...What did Honda/Acura do in terms of changing engine components to allow their cars to have 7,500 mile oil change intervals?? The answer is nothing. The engines are excactly the same as they were when the SAME manufacturer was recommending 3,750 mile oil change intervals under severe maintainence conditions (which most cars fell under). The reason why they have changed the intervals is to show consumers lower cost of maintainence on their new cars to help promote sales. This is something that all manufactorers are now doing. Now thats not to say that the cars can't handle these intervals, but would you really want your car to be barely getting by on it's maintenence? If you saw some of the oil that comes out of these cars after not having the oil changed for 7,500 miles you wonder how the car is going to make it past 100,000 miles. Now think about your oil filter going into bypass mode after about 6,500 miles because of all the dirt passing through there and then offer NO filtration for another 1,000 miles while you wait for your oil change interval. This is coming from an Acura service advisor who changes his oil and filter every 3,750 miles. Now all of you guys can go ahead and say I'm lying and that all I want is to make money but the real truth is that dealerships really don't make money on oil changes. In most cases the cost of paying the techinicians/parts is higher than you are charged for an oil change. That leaves the dealership with doing oil changes at or below cost in order to be competitive. Sure it's easy for Jiffy Lube to charge 19.95 because they are using cheap parts, and the people doing them barely make minimum wage. Yeah just the kind of place I want to take my $37,000 car. Just because a car can handle it doesn't mean it's the best thing for it in order to have maximum performance and longevity.

geronimomoe

I'm not sure that M1 can't go more than 7500 in all instances. Such as the MB's. The E-320 has a 9 quart (or so) capacity. So, I've seen the MID in the E-320 go up to roughly 15000 miles (if not more) before an oil change is required. Of course it all depends on driving habit, city/highway, etc.

Perhaps you meant M1 can't go much more than 7500 miles in the TL's application?

geronimomoe

First off, I don't believe all dealership personnel lie to me. Some may not know as much as I do about certain things in their cars though.

However, I should say that to blindly change the oil/filter every 3000-3750 miles especially when using a good synthetic isn't wise either. I have a 96 Accord, 97K miles (still going strong), used in technically close to severe service 9-11 miles each way, every day, for the past 10 years and change the oil every 6 months or 7500 miles, which ever comes first.. The motor is still clean, no valve tap, and doesn't use a drop of oil. I've used M1 5w-30 since 500 miles on the car.

As for what have car manufacturer's done different when they would recommend 3000-3750 OCI, I dare say a lot such as different materials in motors and tighter tolerances....

If you check, years ago they said 24000 miles or 2-3 years between changing the antifreeze. Now with the silicate free antifreeze and long life antifreeze, isn't that interval up to 100000 miles or 6 years in some instances? Have we see a substantial increase in number of cooling system failures as a result of this?

I can't state numbers but I suspect not. Just my humble opinion.

x03BlackAccV6x

If your so keen on following manufacturers recommendations then why are you using synthetic oil when they deem it unneccesary? I made my statement based on using dino oil.

All of that long life anti-freeze stuff hasn't been in most cars long enough to really see a trend as far as internal engine corrosion and mechanical break-downs but time will tell.

I assure you that nothing as been changed in these motors. Your talking to someone who can cross reference part numbers from model year to model year and show you almost no difference.

I apologize if I come across as defensive but I get touchy when it comes to some peoples opinions on dealerships since having worked in the car business since I got out of high school. I don't blame people for their opinions though because most of them are justified. Unfortunatley though most of those opinions are due to poor dealership personnel. I can't speak for all dealers but I know some bad ones are spoiling the bunch if you know what I mean.

mishar

… and better combustion due to better combustion chambers and aspiration system (including camshaft profiles, injectors, manifolds, sensors and electronics) and better gas and better oil… To learn something about oil for real, not marketing mambo jumbo: www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/API.html

Klamalama

I have a 2003 CL - Type S, with a 6-speed manual. It currently has 132,000 miles. I've been using synthetic from about 85,000 miles and change it religiously every 15,000. I seem to have one problem. I have to remember to check the oil level every 5,000 miles to see if it is getting burned away. It burns a quart every 10,000 miles. I then add a full quart of Mobil 1.

This amount of oil usage is exemplary and testament to Honda's quality, and to my maintenance. I'm planning on keeping it to 200,000 which will mean only 4 more oil changes.

geronimomoe

Why do I use synthetic? I know the low pour point practically guarantee's me minimal engine wear at startup in cold weather. Not to mention the longer oil change interval. As you may know, dino is like molasses at 20 degrees Fahrenheit. I believe all Honda says is as long oil meet certain specs, any type (synthetic, synthetic blend, or dino) oil can be used. I don't believe Honda recommends any of the 3 specifically or states it as unnecessary, though I'll need to check the Accord's owner's and shop manual to be sure.

However, other manufacturer's (VW, MB which I know for sure) specify synthetic as the only approved oil. Not all though, obviously.

Regarding long life anti-freeze. They've been around at least for 11 years. They were in GM's since 1996, which I know for sure as our family had an Olds Cutlass Sierra, with the red anti-freeze. So 11 years should be "long enough" to provide a trend, especially if manufacturers in the past specified 2 or 3 year intervals...

As for part numbers, that doesn't mean much unless you have the metallurgy analyzed. If the parts didn't change, then why change part numbers?

Sorry if it came across a bit harsh...

geronimomoe

Oh yeah. I believe you should follow the MID.

In borderline severe usage, our 06 Ody van MID drops the oil life by 10% roughly every 500 miles, so after 4500 miles, the oil life is at about 10%. On the Ody website, people have gone as high 10000 miles, if my memory is correct, between oil changes.. Of course, those folks most likely have a lot of highway miles or rarely turn of their motor...

SodaLuvr

DexCool has been out since '96, is 11 years long enough for you? There are millions of cars on the road running the Texaco DexCool and have no issues...yes, a very small percentage of the DexCool equipped vehicles have had problems but the vast majority of the cars do not. VW has been using G12 now for at least seven years (and is also considered lifetime fill) and I have no heard of any corrosion, cavitation, or serious cooling system issues either.

Honda has set the drain interval for 7500 mi under normal service since the early 90s...in 2001, they upped the service interval to 10k miles under normal service for the four-cylinder models only. In 2004, the Maintenance Minder system was put into use beginning with the TL and is slowly trickling down to all Honda models.

Anyway, as newer oils reach the market the service intervals can only become "safer" as there will be a greater and greater margin of error within the introduction with the newest oil spec. Any change in service interval is closely linked to improvements in filter media (which happens on a yearly basis) and improvements in oil quality and/or changes in the engine design. For instance, GM upped the maximum service interval allowed by their OLM to 12500 miles in the Northstar engine when they changed from flat tappets to a hydraulic roller design, as the latter was less detrimental to the depletion of oil additives.

x03BlackAccV6x

Here is Acura's definition of "Severe Maintenance Condition's" according to the information in the 2001 3.2CL owners manual...

"3,750 mi/ 6,000 km/-
Service at the indicated distance or time, whichever comes first. Use this schedule if the vehicle is driven MAINLY in Canada or in any of the following conditions; if only OCCASIONALLY driven in these conditions, use the Normal Conditions schedule.

According to state and federal regulations, failure to do the maintenance items marked with an asterisk (*) will not void the customer's emissions warranties. However, Honda recommends that all maintenance services be done at the recommended interval to ensure long-term reliability.

Severe Driving Conditions

Less than 5 miles (8 km) per trip or, in freezing temperatures, less than 10 miles (16 km) per trip

In extremely; hot weather (over 90ºF/32ºC)

Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving

Trailer towing, driving with car-top carrier, or driving in mountainous conditions

On muddy, dusty, or de-iced roads

* According to state and federal regulations, failure to do the maintenance items marked with an asterisk (*) will not void the customer's emissions warranties. However, Honda recommends that all maintenance services be done at the recommended interval to ensure long-term reliability.

o Replace engine oil and filter."


Now I didn't see anything saying anything in that about 10,000 mile intervals for car's that go through those conditions. 2001 was the model year you were referring to right? What is so differnet now from then? But realistically you have to admitt that most cars go through those condtions on a daily basis. I know here in NY we definately see that year round, you guys in Cali. get blessed with the nice weather. So change your oil at whatever the "f' you want" miles and I'll do my oil whenever the f' I want...sound like a good idea? haha

SodaLuvr

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24744

Like I said, the 2001+ Civic has those intervals. The 2003+ Accord does. etc. 2004+ TSX does.

Driving conditions that constitute the need for the severe schedule is merely a guidelines. Oil Life systems monitor conditions that would allow for an increased/decreased service interval beyond the "listed" factors and work much better than the "cookbook" maintenance approach.

ironviet

there is also different densities and richness of how dark it is. there is a difference between oil at 7k miles compared to 3k miles. at 500 miles the oil is still clear most of the time.