Automakers: Oil Lasts Longer
#42
Moderator
Originally Posted by Nakamichi
I agree. But the car I do this on is a Toyota Camry w/ 3.0L engine that's prone to engine sludge.
The car manual states the changing intervals at every 3750 miles. I've probably lucked out unlike those other people with sludged up Toyota engines, but I'm sure using synthetic fluid and matched filter (Amsoil in this case) played a role.
Though I wouldn't do this on the any car, at least not while it's under warranty. Toyota would fix any sludged up engines *due to the lawsuit*, but only for people who strictly followed the manufacturer's intervals.
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The car manual states the changing intervals at every 3750 miles. I've probably lucked out unlike those other people with sludged up Toyota engines, but I'm sure using synthetic fluid and matched filter (Amsoil in this case) played a role.
Though I wouldn't do this on the any car, at least not while it's under warranty. Toyota would fix any sludged up engines *due to the lawsuit*, but only for people who strictly followed the manufacturer's intervals.
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97 Camry V6. Has 95k? on it...every 5k miles with bulk dealer 5W30. No problems either.
As long as you make some effort to change the oil at least every 7500 on most cars that are designed to run conventional oil, its unlikely that you'll have a problem.
#43
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Originally Posted by SodaLuvr
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24744
Like I said, the 2001+ Civic has those intervals. The 2003+ Accord does. etc. 2004+ TSX does.
Driving conditions that constitute the need for the severe schedule is merely a guidelines. Oil Life systems monitor conditions that would allow for an increased/decreased service interval beyond the "listed" factors and work much better than the "cookbook" maintenance approach.
Like I said, the 2001+ Civic has those intervals. The 2003+ Accord does. etc. 2004+ TSX does.
Driving conditions that constitute the need for the severe schedule is merely a guidelines. Oil Life systems monitor conditions that would allow for an increased/decreased service interval beyond the "listed" factors and work much better than the "cookbook" maintenance approach.
Yeah but it's all an illusion. It's just Acura's way of extending to service intervals without making any real changes to the cars. Which brings me back to my first post in this thread. Wether they right down in the book or have the car throw a maint. light on at aprox 7,500 miles makes no difference.
#44
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Originally Posted by SodaLuvr
One of the guys I know has a 98 Camry V6 with 150k+ on it. Changed oil whenever he got around to it. Last oil change we did, it had 13k on the fill of bulk Pennzoil 10W30. ![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
97 Camry V6. Has 95k? on it...every 5k miles with bulk dealer 5W30. No problems either.
As long as you make some effort to change the oil at least every 7500 on most cars that are designed to run conventional oil, its unlikely that you'll have a problem.
![what](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/what.gif)
97 Camry V6. Has 95k? on it...every 5k miles with bulk dealer 5W30. No problems either.
As long as you make some effort to change the oil at least every 7500 on most cars that are designed to run conventional oil, its unlikely that you'll have a problem.
#45
Originally Posted by x03BlackAccV6x
Yeah but it's all an illusion. It's just Acura's way of extending to service intervals without making any real changes to the cars. Which brings me back to my first post in this thread. Wether they right down in the book or have the car throw a maint. light on at aprox 7,500 miles makes no difference.
When every technical reason says that it should be just the opposite, it creates logical question: Why? I think that frequent oil change creates jobs through whole industry and profits for oil companies. I hope that we all know how powerful they are in North America.
Why now? Well I think that they figured out that it is cheaper to give way somewhere then to confront with all environmental issues at the same time.
#46
Safety Car
Sorry but you are incorrect. The dealers changed this interval because oils of today are much better grade than they use to be. In all the Blackstone tests that many have done this has been proven. Why would a dealer change the interval to lose money? Dealers make more money on 3k oil changes than they do 7500 miles.
I suggest you do some studying at bobistheoilguy.com forums and learn about tests on oils, etc. Because you are totally wrong on everything you just posted.
I suggest you do some studying at bobistheoilguy.com forums and learn about tests on oils, etc. Because you are totally wrong on everything you just posted.
Originally Posted by x03BlackAccV6x
I love how everyone assumes the dealer is lying to them about oil change intervals. Let me ask all of you guys a question...What did Honda/Acura do in terms of changing engine components to allow their cars to have 7,500 mile oil change intervals?? The answer is nothing. The engines are excactly the same as they were when the SAME manufacturer was recommending 3,750 mile oil change intervals under severe maintainence conditions (which most cars fell under). The reason why they have changed the intervals is to show consumers lower cost of maintainence on their new cars to help promote sales. This is something that all manufactorers are now doing. Now thats not to say that the cars can't handle these intervals, but would you really want your car to be barely getting by on it's maintenence? If you saw some of the oil that comes out of these cars after not having the oil changed for 7,500 miles you wonder how the car is going to make it past 100,000 miles. Now think about your oil filter going into bypass mode after about 6,500 miles because of all the dirt passing through there and then offer NO filtration for another 1,000 miles while you wait for your oil change interval. This is coming from an Acura service advisor who changes his oil and filter every 3,750 miles. Now all of you guys can go ahead and say I'm lying and that all I want is to make money but the real truth is that dealerships really don't make money on oil changes. In most cases the cost of paying the techinicians/parts is higher than you are charged for an oil change. That leaves the dealership with doing oil changes at or below cost in order to be competitive. Sure it's easy for Jiffy Lube to charge 19.95 because they are using cheap parts, and the people doing them barely make minimum wage. Yeah just the kind of place I want to take my $37,000 car. Just because a car can handle it doesn't mean it's the best thing for it in order to have maximum performance and longevity.
#47
Safety Car
Originally Posted by geronimomoe
I'm not sure that M1 can't go more than 7500 in all instances. Such as the MB's. The E-320 has a 9 quart (or so) capacity. So, I've seen the MID in the E-320 go up to roughly 15000 miles (if not more) before an oil change is required. Of course it all depends on driving habit, city/highway, etc.
Perhaps you meant M1 can't go much more than 7500 miles in the TL's application?
Perhaps you meant M1 can't go much more than 7500 miles in the TL's application?
It does, but on most blackstone lab tests it can't go near that fall especially the new formula. Still the fact that remains, you can not take your car to 15k on oil changes without voiding your warranty. You must change it in the time recommended.
And no not just the TL application, its any APPLICATION.
#48
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Klamalama
I have a 2003 CL - Type S, with a 6-speed manual. It currently has 132,000 miles. I've been using synthetic from about 85,000 miles and change it religiously every 15,000. I seem to have one problem. I have to remember to check the oil level every 5,000 miles to see if it is getting burned away. It burns a quart every 10,000 miles. I then add a full quart of Mobil 1.
This amount of oil usage is exemplary and testament to Honda's quality, and to my maintenance. I'm planning on keeping it to 200,000 which will mean only 4 more oil changes.
This amount of oil usage is exemplary and testament to Honda's quality, and to my maintenance. I'm planning on keeping it to 200,000 which will mean only 4 more oil changes.
#49
Safety Car
There are known issues with the DEXCOOL that GM started going with. It actually ate away at the seals of the engine and made the headgaskets go prematurely. It happens even on todays cars. Reason why DEXCOOL has articles all over it about this and why people need to flush that crap out.
Even my brothers Olds Silluette Minivan had only 40k of miles and its headgasket got eaten away by the damn dexcool stuff. So did a 96 grand am of ours. Many many other cars have.
That stuff is crap.
Even my brothers Olds Silluette Minivan had only 40k of miles and its headgasket got eaten away by the damn dexcool stuff. So did a 96 grand am of ours. Many many other cars have.
That stuff is crap.
#50
Moderator
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
There are known issues with the DEXCOOL that GM started going with. It actually ate away at the seals of the engine and made the headgaskets go prematurely. It happens even on todays cars. Reason why DEXCOOL has articles all over it about this and why people need to flush that crap out.
Even my brothers Olds Silluette Minivan had only 40k of miles and its headgasket got eaten away by the damn dexcool stuff. So did a 96 grand am of ours. Many many other cars have.
That stuff is crap.
Even my brothers Olds Silluette Minivan had only 40k of miles and its headgasket got eaten away by the damn dexcool stuff. So did a 96 grand am of ours. Many many other cars have.
That stuff is crap.
Look...I don't see GM cars lining up at the dealerships and repair shops getting new headgaskets, water pumps, etc on a premature basis. It just doesn't happen. The 3.4L V6 in your Olds Minivan had defective intake manifold gaskets (some even headgaskets) that were unrelated to the coolant used.
Blackstone's oil analysis are good if you drive a GM 3.4 and want to check for coolant leaks
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#51
Moderator
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
It does, but on most blackstone lab tests it can't go near that fall especially the new formula. Still the fact that remains, you can not take your car to 15k on oil changes without voiding your warranty. You must change it in the time recommended.
And no not just the TL application, its any APPLICATION.
And no not just the TL application, its any APPLICATION.
In order for the warranty to be invalidated, oil must be proven to be the cause of failure...
#52
Safety Car
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dexcool+problems
From a simple search.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...m_dexcool.html
I need not to say anything further on this. Even Dexcool is not fond of on the BITOG forums. GM cars are having premature problems due to DEXCOOL. It has been a known issue for many many years since they came out. That is a fact. Do some research.
Headgaskets are the main failure due to the DEXCOOL issues. It eats away. There are even pictures of how dexcool eats away at the material on the net.
---
Also if you do not change your oil within the specified period in the owners manual the warranty is automatically voided. You can't prove crap if you prove you did it 15k under warranty, that doesn't meet the specified schedule.
From a simple search.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...m_dexcool.html
I need not to say anything further on this. Even Dexcool is not fond of on the BITOG forums. GM cars are having premature problems due to DEXCOOL. It has been a known issue for many many years since they came out. That is a fact. Do some research.
Headgaskets are the main failure due to the DEXCOOL issues. It eats away. There are even pictures of how dexcool eats away at the material on the net.
---
Also if you do not change your oil within the specified period in the owners manual the warranty is automatically voided. You can't prove crap if you prove you did it 15k under warranty, that doesn't meet the specified schedule.
#53
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Originally Posted by SodaLuvr
I just pulled the stick a few days ago on my GM. Now tell me how many miles are on my oil:
![](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/SodaJunkie/Car/IMG_0023edited.jpg)
![](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t218/SodaJunkie/Car/IMG_0023edited.jpg)
Never told you I could tell you how many miles but I can tell you that your oil still appears quite clear but with an unfocused camera and just a digital image it's hard to tell you the fluidity of your oil.
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#54
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
It does, but on most blackstone lab tests it can't go near that fall especially the new formula. Still the fact that remains, you can not take your car to 15k on oil changes without voiding your warranty. You must change it in the time recommended.
And no not just the TL application, its any APPLICATION.
And no not just the TL application, its any APPLICATION.
I haven't checked the forums on www.bobistheoilguy.com yet specifically re: the FSS for the MB's but I thought I read somewhere it takes a sample of the oil and determines the remaining life of the oil. But I can say for a fact that with my parents 02 E320, the dealer says to change oil once a year or follow the FSS, whichever comes first. Someone I know who drives mainly highway has gone up to 15000 miles in a MB between oil changes... OK, I didn't have the oil analyzed but don't you think that MB would take a beating if a good number of their motors started to fail with under 100,000 miles? That would be a public relations nightmare for them, for that matter, any car manufacturer, in this case, Acura?
I did a search on bobistheoilguy and found one where the 1 guy ran 7000 miles on 0w-40 in his 1998 328i, had his oil analyzed by Blackstone and was told to check back in 3000 miles.. OK, it's not 5w-20 (Acura recommended viscosity). So, according to that poster, 10,000+ miles seems possible with M1 0w-40.
Another guy (in Madison, Wisconson.. COLD) ran 5w-20 in his son's Accord V6, did a change and test at 4024 miles, was told to change it at roughly 5000 miles next time. HOWEVER, the son makes many 4-5 mile trips to and from school, therefore in severe conditions. If the driving was highway miles, I bet it could handle easily 7500 miles.. OK, I didn't do any oil analysis or this guy hasn't tried 5000 miles or more yet.
That being said, I'd still trust Acura (or MB) automotive engineers with a large sample of data and their recommendations when it came to their cars. So if the MID said change the oil, I'd change the oil, whether it was 4000 miles or 10000 miles, again, following the MID, especially under warranty.. Once out, I'd probably go with my mantra 6 months (May/November or June/December) or MID, whichever came first. (I don't want to change oil by myself in the dead of winter.. it stinks!
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#56
Moderator
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dexcool+problems
From a simple search.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...m_dexcool.html
I need not to say anything further on this. Even Dexcool is not fond of on the BITOG forums. GM cars are having premature problems due to DEXCOOL. It has been a known issue for many many years since they came out. That is a fact. Do some research.
Headgaskets are the main failure due to the DEXCOOL issues. It eats away. There are even pictures of how dexcool eats away at the material on the net.
From a simple search.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...m_dexcool.html
I need not to say anything further on this. Even Dexcool is not fond of on the BITOG forums. GM cars are having premature problems due to DEXCOOL. It has been a known issue for many many years since they came out. That is a fact. Do some research.
Headgaskets are the main failure due to the DEXCOOL issues. It eats away. There are even pictures of how dexcool eats away at the material on the net.
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
Also if you do not change your oil within the specified period in the owners manual the warranty is automatically voided. You can't prove crap if you prove you did it 15k under warranty, that doesn't meet the specified schedule.
#57
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Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
Sorry but you are incorrect. The dealers changed this interval because oils of today are much better grade than they use to be. In all the Blackstone tests that many have done this has been proven. Why would a dealer change the interval to lose money? Dealers make more money on 3k oil changes than they do 7500 miles.
I suggest you do some studying at bobistheoilguy.com forums and learn about tests on oils, etc. Because you are totally wrong on everything you just posted.
I suggest you do some studying at bobistheoilguy.com forums and learn about tests on oils, etc. Because you are totally wrong on everything you just posted.
#58
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Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
It does, but on most blackstone lab tests it can't go near that fall especially the new formula. Still the fact that remains, you can not take your car to 15k on oil changes without voiding your warranty. You must change it in the time recommended.
And no not just the TL application, its any APPLICATION.
And no not just the TL application, its any APPLICATION.
That's not true. The dealership would have to prove that the cause of failure was a direct result of neglect in order for it to deny warranty coverage. In most cases it's easier for the dealer to warranty the repair after going through plenty of diagnostic time to tear down the motor than it is to accuse the customer of doing something wrong and go through a whole customer relations process. There are certain things that are obvious and should no doubt be the customers resbonsibilty (i.e "I was doing 85mph and the accidently shifted into 2nd gear and the piston shot out and hit some grandma walking down the street"). The only time not having your vehicle serviced at the dealership at the recommended intervals is when your vehicle is out of warranty and Acura is considering a goodwill warranty repair. They will ask if the car was serviced at the dealer and how often.
#59
Moderator
Originally Posted by x03BlackAccV6x
I have yet to hear an explanation as to why I am incorrect. How are you gonna tell me the dealership makes less money with 7,500k intervals when I have first hand experience? There are plenty of other things that the service department makes money on aside from doing oil changes. Even if the dealership did no maint. on vehicles and did only repairs we wouldn't exactley be starving for work. Trust me, were not really relying on it and have no reason to set-up this intricate scam to rip people off. The next thing your gonna tell me is that the dealership sabotages the cars to do warranty work right?
However, you are right on the dealership not losing much money (if any at all) from the longer intervals. Here's a little example:
Example #1: Honda V6, without Maintenance Minder system:
3750- oil change, $35
7500- minor service, $119
11250- oil change, $35
15000- intermediate service, $169
18750- oil change, $35
22500- minor service, $119
26250- oil change, $35
30000- major service, $379
This is from my local dealer. The older service schedule calls for a maintenance service every 7.5k, with an oil change in between under severe service. Total cost of maintenance over the 30k period I illustrated is $879.
Example #2: Honda V6, with Maintenance Minder system.
The service dept at the local dealer is telling me that most customers are going in for service about every 6k miles per the maintenance minder system.
A1 service (6k miles)- $119
B1 service (12k miles)- $169
A1 service (18k miles)- $119
B2 service (24k miles)- $379
A1 service (30k miles)- $119
A1 is an oil change, tire rotation. But most dealerships will sell you the basic "minor service" anyway. B1 service is the oil change, tire rotation, and inspection...so most dealers use this opportunity to sell you the intermediate service, which includes a more thorough inspection. And with the B2 service, they try to sell you the major service package anyway even though it includes the ATF/Brake fluid changes in addition to what is called for. (I agree on the additional services though). So, if I add up all the costs, the total cost of services is $905.
So are we really saving money with the Maintenance Minder system?
#60
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Originally Posted by SodaLuvr
...Oils today last far longer than those of the past. Heck, if advancements in oil quality have not been made, wouldn't we still be changing oil every 500 miles like we did in the 50s?...
#61
Safety Car
Originally Posted by SodaLuvr
You need to google for the Magnuson-Moss Act...
Let's see here, I have over 20 years of experience in cars you barely 5?
#62
Safety Car
Originally Posted by x03BlackAccV6x
That's not true. The dealership would have to prove that the cause of failure was a direct result of neglect in order for it to deny warranty coverage. In most cases it's easier for the dealer to warranty the repair after going through plenty of diagnostic time to tear down the motor than it is to accuse the customer of doing something wrong and go through a whole customer relations process. There are certain things that are obvious and should no doubt be the customers resbonsibilty (i.e "I was doing 85mph and the accidently shifted into 2nd gear and the piston shot out and hit some grandma walking down the street"). The only time not having your vehicle serviced at the dealership at the recommended intervals is when your vehicle is out of warranty and Acura is considering a goodwill warranty repair. They will ask if the car was serviced at the dealer and how often.
Look, its easy to see it was neglected with 15k oil changes. That is a easy voided warranty. If it says in the manual to replace the oil every 3750 or 7500 then it needs to be done IN THAT TIME FRAME. If it's not its neglect. That is why service receipts or oil receipts are very important and how many miles.
#63
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
Let's see here, I have over 20 years of experience in cars you barely 5?
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#65
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
mishar, then give us your input.
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Oil change: according to factory recommendation. Not shorter because it is waste of time and money and it hurts environment. Not longer because you can have trouble with warranty. There I think that you can fight dealership in court, but it would be long and expensive procedure with uncertain outcome.
Baseline: I am not unloved with my car and most certainly not ready to be its slave. Hate washing it and doing any maintenance. Upgrading is something else, of course. On the other hand I can understand some love there, but too much is getting close to fetishism and that is not good at all.
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#66
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
And if you actually tested the oil you would know that M1 can't go 15k of miles on most cars. It barely can go past 7500 miles. You NEED to change it at 7500 miles at the most especially with M1 new formula.
x03BlackAccV6x
Motors Have changed. The tolerances are tighter, materials such as bearings have changed, efficiency of the motors are far superior as far as unburnt fuel not contaminating the oils. So Yes things have changed, Along with oils themselves.
#67
Safety Car
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Well i can attest to 8k oil changes with dino oil till 100k, then switched to 10-15k with synthetic (M1) till 200k when i did my 6 speed conversion. I challenge any one to tell me it wasnt good for the motor! The original cross hatching is still present in the cylinder walls. When i ran 15k intervals it was down less than 1 quart of oil (which every motor consumes oil. It has to. Also for those concerned with the filter, simply Unscrew the filter along the way, fill it up with fresh oil and screw it back on. New fresh filter for filtering the oil. simple as that.
x03BlackAccV6x
Motors Have changed. The tolerances are tighter, materials such as bearings have changed, efficiency of the motors are far superior as far as unburnt fuel not contaminating the oils. So Yes things have changed, Along with oils themselves.
x03BlackAccV6x
Motors Have changed. The tolerances are tighter, materials such as bearings have changed, efficiency of the motors are far superior as far as unburnt fuel not contaminating the oils. So Yes things have changed, Along with oils themselves.
#68
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
I'd be more worried of it sluding up than it protecting the metals. Without tests you can't say for sure that oil was doing its job though. I know if anyone did what you did and at least changed it, you would probably be fine. It's the picky BITOG people that test and show its not doing as well as it should then its no good anymore.
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#71
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
I agree. If its working for you no reason to switch. Plus some engines run cleaner than others.
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#72
Moderator
Originally Posted by pimpin-tl
Look, its easy to see it was neglected with 15k oil changes. That is a easy voided warranty. If it says in the manual to replace the oil every 3750 or 7500 then it needs to be done IN THAT TIME FRAME. If it's not its neglect. That is why service receipts or oil receipts are very important and how many miles.
EKPOLK and GC4Lunch are both attorneys. Yes, differing opinions, even between attorneys. Let's read and discuss...
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Right now my 06 TL (about 6 months old) only has 4000 miles and the MID says 30% oil life left. I am going to the dealer, when the odometer hits 4500 miles, for the first oil and filter change, regardless what the MID says. Should I specify what type of oil should be put in, as I am not an aggressive driver and most of my miles are city rather than highway driving? In my case, I think the dealer's "regular" brand oil would work, right?
#75
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Aside from better formulations in today's oils, especially synthetics, another main reason oil change intervals are getting longer are the computers controlling the ignition systems in newer cars. As these computers get better and better, there's less and less in the way of unburned fuel and air mixtures mixing with the oil.
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I am going to follow MID for intervals, but will change when there is still little oil life left. That will be a safety net to ensure the motor longevity for any driving conditions that MID does not pick up.
Disagree with those of you that switched to synthetic oil and still changing it using the same intervals, it is excessive, and just plainly, a waist of money. Personally, I want to keep my car in a shape, but at the same time spend less time and money on upkeep.
Acura dealers make out like felons on oil changes...in my area, they charge close to 40 bucks for something that other places charge 25. Is Acura's genuine oil filter that expensive, or what is the other reason for such a high cost?
Disagree with those of you that switched to synthetic oil and still changing it using the same intervals, it is excessive, and just plainly, a waist of money. Personally, I want to keep my car in a shape, but at the same time spend less time and money on upkeep.
Acura dealers make out like felons on oil changes...in my area, they charge close to 40 bucks for something that other places charge 25. Is Acura's genuine oil filter that expensive, or what is the other reason for such a high cost?
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Sodalvr....
You have your real life numbers wrong..... I ONLY change my oil with an A1... so I don't pay $119 like you have...
My tire rotations (and balance at the same time) is with Discount which I paid a fee for life of about $50....
Have not yet had a B1 in 4 years... only have 18K on the car...
You have your real life numbers wrong..... I ONLY change my oil with an A1... so I don't pay $119 like you have...
My tire rotations (and balance at the same time) is with Discount which I paid a fee for life of about $50....
Have not yet had a B1 in 4 years... only have 18K on the car...
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