I am re-posting from the vibration at 50 thread that I've posted earlier:

Finally got some answers from service today (going on 11 days now since it's been in the shop) for engine vibration.

They tell me the torgue lockup selernoid (I'm sure I butchered the spelling) needs to be replaced. Also, they are questimating that this is the problem. They added this may not solve the issue and that they will test drive the car after installation.

Anyone out there with real info that can answer:

1. What is it?
2. What is involved in replacing. Do they have to take the engine apart?

---------
I did a google search on the problem and it appears to be tranny related.

The reason I've started a new thread is that if it is true, I am
fu%@ing pissed. Before buying the car, Acura sales told me (no almost guaranteed me) that this is a new tranny and that problems WILL NOT occur w/new transmission.

I guess I shouldn't react too soon, without 100% confirmation of the problem, but damn, WHY DON'T ACURA JUST REVERSE ENGINEER ONE OF LEXUS' TRANNY AND PUT IT THEIR CARS!!!!! or any other car maker. **** why is Acura having such problems with transmissions.

Even if it is fixed, will I later have the problem again.

After the second generation problems, I would think Acura would have put a transmission that is bullet proof. I'll stop venting.

Good luck too all...and to all a good night.

 

I think you mean the torque lockup solenoid or torque converter lockup solenoid.

I found this on google, seems like a decent explanation, although it may not be completely transferrable to the TL context:

What is the lockup solenoid? It's an electrically operated valve in your Fiero automatic transmission that is controlled by the car's computer. When the computer believes it would be effective to lock the torque converter up solid it powers the solenoid which makes the transmission lock up. The effect is that "fourth" gear that you sometimes feel on what is really a three speed automatic transmission. The effect is better gas mileage, as it reduces the speed of the engine by about 250 RPM when it cuts in. Not a whole lot, but good for a couple of miles per gallon.

 

You make it sound as if everyone had serious tranmssion problems with the 2nd gen. I for one owned a 2nd gen and experienced no problems what-so-ever when the tranny. I think I read that the finals numbers came out to less than 2% of owners experienced problems. That could be to transmission abuse too since heat is a primary killer of trannys. If you drive your car hard all the time, it's bound to experience more problems than for those who don't.

So please if you really think Acura is having major problems with their transmissions, please back it up with some meaningful stats.

 

I didn't imply in my post that everyone has experienced tranny problems on the 2nd gen TL's. Where did u read this? I just merely stated that there were tranny problems on the older models, by the way serious enough for Acura to extend its tran warranty.

Good for u that u didn't experience the problem, but for those who have, I'll tell u, it provides no *&#^% comfort to hear that only 2% of the TL's had problems. I didn't see Lexus, Ford, Chevy, Infinity, Nissan, Hyundai, VW, BMW, Audi on and on, have to extend warranty on their transmission!!!

Why Acura? 2% on outside does not seem to be a big deal, but on a major component such as a tranny, that is way too high (I'm sure way above industry standards for transmission failures)

How would u like it if your loved ones were driving your car and transmission failed during highway driving and God forbid they were seriously injured of killed. Will someone telling u, well only 2% of Acura's experienced this problem, bring u any comfort.

2% is way too high for a vital component, such as transmission...period...stop giving this BS.

 

BS? Show where someone has been killed because of an Acura Tranmission failure. No where on this forum has anyone stated what the final problem was with their transmissions. No one has stated whether it was a mechanical problem or with the electronic components. All I read is "transmission problems". Well what the heck does that mean? I did read one post about somone who had to have a third transmission installed because they kept failing. Well gee, when one person goes thru that many trannys, you have to wonder what the common denominator is (let me give you clue, it isn't the tranny).

BTW, if you read your previous post, the message you give implies that you are expecting nothing but problems with the tranmission. You even implied that Acura cannot manufacture a decent transmission.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I would like to see some facts and data backing up the transmission issue. I've asked this question before of folks who claim to have tranny problems. What was the cause? I've yet to get an answer.

 

There is one lady on here who has been seriously injured by her tranny croaking on the highway, spinal problems and excessive pain. So she wasn't killed, that's still pretty dang serious and ruined her life.

2% comes out to over 20,000 didn't it ?? that's a lotta people to have a problem, sometimes multiple times.

 

Well no one more than I likes to hear about someone being hurt. But I'm still waiting to hear what caused the failure..................

 

First of all...doesn't really matter if anyone was killed by this problem...if or when this occurs...will this make u change your tune??? Does someone have to die in order for a point to be made?

Potential for a tranny to fail at high speeds, is a big problem. Even if the chances are 1 in 1000 or 1 in 2000 that this may happen to me, I don't like those chances.

2% chance that interior lights will go out = "no big deal"
2% chance that my horn may not work = "No big deal"
2% chance that my memory seats will not function = "No big deal"

2% chance of tranny failure at high speeds = "Unacceptable"
2% chance of brake failure = "Unacceptable"

That's 1 in every 50 cars may have tranny failures.

Well u get my point. Eveything is relative.

Of course I'm concerned that I may have potential problems with my new car. For me the track record is not too good. Trans had to be repaired after less than a month of driving my brand new car. If my car is having problems this early on, the chances are greater that I will have problems down the road. It's just common sense. The chances are greater, than for example you, who have had no problems (or major problems to date).

And no, I did not drive like a maniac during my first month. In fact, the opposite...I babied my car. I will park far distances to avoid accidental dents from other cars. Followed to letter break-in period. I initially loved my car and still do. I just want it back in working condition. I paid good money for a new car.

 

I agree with you that some people make it out to be everybody. However, a 2% failure rate (this is a REPORTED failure rate) is too high for a luxury car. Also, if you go to NHTSA and look for TL problems with transmissions you will see a number of people who have had thier transmission downshift into 2nd at highway speeds. This locks up the wheels and they go spinning. The report I saw showed 3 accidents with injuries, but no deaths. Just because someone has not been KILLED yet does not mean that it could not have happened. BUT, lots of cars have defects that put people at risk. Just hope that it gets fixed permanently and quickly.

See below:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...y/message/1839

 

I agree. The 2% REPORTED is low. Honda America admitted to 26,000 failures in auto trannies in the TL/Honda V-6 Accord/Oddyssey. I say that is a really low number. Honda can build engines, but they need a new tranny supplier!

 

This would be bad if it was in one year but if I recall right, it is over a 3-4 year period and it's over the whole Honda family. The reason you don't hear this from Ford or GM is probably because they consider 2% failure to be within normal failure rates. Atleast we got an extended warranty. Heck, for a couple years running Chrysler's Neons were having a 40% failure on headgaskets. You'd think they would know how to make headgaskets after 80 years in business. I've had no problems with my 02 TL-S but never the less, I've had it with automatic transmissions for a while. My new 04 TL with have a 6 speed manual - just hope it stays in gear

 

That URL you provided had some good information in it. Failure rate of 1.6%. Also mentioned that NHTSA does not think it warrants a recall. Also said that Honda identified the problems and redesigned the transmission. I guess the question now would be how many of the redesigned trannys have failed.

 

Of course not. Gee whiz, your chances of dying period go up just by getting into your car and driving on the roads. I understand you're upset because of the problems you're having with your TL.

No matter how perfect we build machines, there will always be some chance that a failure will occur. The article posted by Formula 350 sheds a lot of light on this subject that neither I or many on this forum have seen. Two different transmissions with two different problems, spread over four different model lines. Now we know that it's not really 1.6% of all TL transmissions failing but only a portion of that total.

 

No crap. If you step out on to a street, your chances of dying just increases. There are of course inherent risks of death in everyday life...those are factors beyond our control. But driving a car with known issues, and problems that should be addressed, these are the problems that needs to be solved, (factors within our control...or in this case Acura's control). We can't do anything about inherent risks (risks beyond our control).

Your comment on the fact that 1.6% failure rate spreads across 4 lines may also mean that TL failures may actually be higher. It could be either way. If less failure rate on say Odysseys and Accords, which will mean a higher %'age of failure for TL. Honda can play all the number games they want (who knows?). I'll bet, from what I'm hearing from various TL/CL owners and boards, it would seem TL/CL's experiences more problems than other Honda models.

IF that is the case (a Big IF), that will mean instead of 1.6 %, that percentage can potentially be much higher for TL/CL models.

 

You're a little late to the party and obviously blinded by your happiness with your new TL purchase. There's a huge problem with the 01-03 TL and CL tranny's. There are sticky posts at the top of both forums pages long of people affected. Unfortunately there are lots of people that have had multiple replacements and it's had nothing to do with their driving style. Honda's offered an extended warranty on the TL/CL's because of it. It's a fact - whether you want to accept it or not is up to you. I also don't fault those owners from being a little sceptical about the new TL either.

 

Also, the 1.6 % figure can be very deceptive. Notice that Honda did not release the percentage breakout by Make/Model. That 1.6% figure can be muddied up by models that may not have had that many tranny failures. I'll illustrate using fictious numbers:

Odysseys: Sold 100k units; 2 problem trannies
Accords: Sold 200k units; 100 problem trannies
TL/CL: Sold 100k; 6,298 problem trannies

If you add all 4 models (400k units) compare it to the total problem trannies (6,400) will give a total tranny failure rate of 1.6 %.

Yet, when you compare by model, TL/CL tranny failure rate = 6.3%.

This is how Honda may be playing with the numbers. Just an example, mind you.

Why doesn't Honda release by Model, the number of tranny failures????? They obviously have raw numbers, hence the 1.6%.

Many companies play with numbers,...look at Enron, Worldcom, Global Crossing etc. It brought companies down. Of course, I know it is not the same example.

Companies hire PR firms to find tricky ways of down playing issues, i.e tranny problems. Spend mucho $$$$$.

It's curious why Honda only extended tranny waranties for the Acura line (obviously, proportion of problem tranny wasn't as wide spread in the Honda products)

 

I am the lady who was injured due to my tranny locking up on the highway. I must state that my tranny failure's did not occur over a long time span,rather my car was 6 month's old and the tranny locked up 6 times on my way to work one day . That tranny was replaced. I had my car back with basically the second new tranny for a 3 weeks I believe and on my way back from lunch the NEW tranny locked up ,no warning what so ever and the guy behind me hit me going very fast as he did not see break light's or KNOW my car was going to suddenly decelerate as it did. Mind you he was issued a ticket ,because following sistance ,however the bottom line is no BREAK light's no warning my car would ALMOST come to a stop .

Yes I have injurie's serious neck injurie's ,diagnosed through MRI.


I just picked up my new 04 tl today , IRONICALLY and I SEE this thread here....... My point's I argued in the 2nd gen forum exactly .


Now obviously the safety issue is of major concern with this 04 tl as my doctor stated I could never take another blow to my neck .. NEVER that was stressed emphatically ! I don't know what the future hold's ,but I know I am concerned about the tranny issue.

Under the circumstances that I got the 04 tl ,I would hope they did change the tranny totally .. I was told that the 04 tl has the same tranny the NSX had.. I have been told by people in the 2nd gen forum that is not correct ,but because I was told that by the Acura litigator ........and the dealership ,I believed them ... I don't know what to think .. my new 04 tl is driving okay , but ,yes there is a very noticeable vibation ,that concerns' me and I told them this before taking delivery today ,but as far as tranny ? I don't know the car has about 50 mile's so far ,so hard to say .. I will be driving very cautiously though ,however I don't know what that will do if the tranny locks,but I have seen some people who had tranny failure's where the car didn't lock up ,just slipped gears' and if it does act up .hopefully that is all it will be ,however ..if that happen's on the highway ,that could be bad too .. Well I am just scaring myself ... I wanted to forget this ,but unfortunately I have a constant reminder ,due to my injurie's and fear of tranny failure ..


Best wishe's to all who do have tranny problem's all I can say is be extremely cautious ...what else can you do?

 

Why did you buy a TL with such a serious injury? If I was screwed like you were, I would never go back to the same manufacturer. I would report the salesperson who told you that the tranny was from the NSX. That is complete bull$hit (one being a TRANSAXLE while other a RWD transmission).

 

I like the Acura tl .which is why I bought the 03 ,totally unaware of the tranny problem's till it effected me and found this site through a search. I still like the Acura ,except for the tranny ,however I can't imagine ,with my accident ect ,that they would still be having tranny issues in the 04's ....

As far as buying another Tl, the fact is the litigator said my only option was a collateral swap ..my 03 for the 04 ... or take my 03 back,so basically I am paying the pay off on my 03 for the 04 ,it was that or seek legal councel ,pay payments on my 03 that I would never drive again ,due to safety issues... yes I do KNOW they KNEW they had me.


What would you have done?

 

To be fair, I would probably do what you have done. However, consider that the Acura TL right now is a HOT car so you could probably sell it for the MSRP and get another car very easily. However, I'm not saying you should sell it but that you have options. If you still trust Acura, then please enjoy the car. BTW, I was seriously considering a 03 TLS but the tranny thing really scared me out of a purchase. I'm waiting right now to see what is up and I'm hoping the TL's new transmission (or transaxle
) is up to the task. It's still pretty shady what the litigator told you about the transmission though.

 

I highly doubt it's the torque lockup solenoid because I have a 6 speed with a slight Vibration at around 40-60 mph and 6 speeds do not have torque converters. I first noticed the vibration after a hard acceleration and activating VSA going into 2nd gear. I believe the VSA only applies the brake to the tire that slips causing something to become uneven.

 

How is the TL handling compared to the TSX? Which car do you prefer?

 

Went to the NHTSA site and saw the response from Honda NA. It was over 1,000 pages long!! They have SAID they have fixed the problem and given extended warrenty which was good enough for NHTSA. I would say that if people continue to have problems OR someone gets killed then it might be a different story.

So far, it seems that the current problem is NOT related to the previous problem. It was a problem with heat in third gear. It took awhile to fail. Nobody here (I think) has over 10,000 miles.

 

I've got 4 friends from a 97 CL to a 93 Tl who's tranny blew. Some drive aggresive, some like an old lady (well she is a lady and works for Honda financial who is well aware of the problem). The 97 CL tranny blew 4 times. This is NOT a high hp engine, a 3.0 liter 200hp engine. In reading the countless threads on the tranny busting, it cannot be attributed to the high hp engine or aggresive driving. BTW, none of these people post on forums on the internet. I can't imagine how many it really is?

It is some sort of mechanical fault in the design. It affects not just the CL/TL but the Prelude, Accord, Odyessy etc.

Acura still would not have done **** unless the LA Times editor had gotten into the accident with it. Correct me if I am wrong but the tranny failures were happening left and right and Acura did not do anything about it. Only until the LA Times editor had their TL and the tranny blew in the middle of traffic and the editor made a report about it did the 100k warrenty extension happen.

 

You make a very good point.

Based on all the posts here, I've been convinced there obviously was some serious problems with the transmissions in the 2nd gen TL. I'm just glad mine didn't go out on me during my cross country trip to upstate NY/Dallas, TX and back. I bought that TL when it first came out in October 01 so it definately was in the group that could have had problems. Somehow I made it thru 24,000 miles with no incident before trading it in for an MDX.

My comments were certainly not meant to offend or belittle anyone and definately not make trivial of anyone being hurt due to this problem. For those who did feel that way, you have my apologies.

 

Actually it was copland from our site who had his accident in Boston, and it was that accident that was published in the LA Times after much work by copland. He still posts occasionally in the 2G forum.

But your point still stands.

 

Got confirmation today...my entire transmission is being replaced. This must be a record...less than 1 month with 3400 miles...need new tranny

This is related to engine vibrations at around 50-55 mph. Anyone experiencing this problem, I would definitely have service check your tranny. Can't be too safe.

Hope the new tranny holds

I would vent, but way too fustrated and tired from this experience.

 

That sucks! I really really hope that yours is an isolated incident. I'm looking to buy within a year and hoping that Acura was a serious consideration. If the tranny is again the weak link, i'm very disappointed

 

I wonder if this is the "fix" that someone eluded to on another thread. From what they were indicating, it seemed as if the tires were being pointed to. Let us know if this fixes the vibration problem.

 

I am afraid I have got you beat on that one. My 6MT tranny had a rebuild of 1st gear followed by a total replacement of the entire transmission, all before delivery (by which I mean delivery to myself, the customer, not the dealer). The problem that led to the rebuild and replacement showed up at mile 6 or 8 or so, and the car was delivered a month later (with new trans) with 60 miles.

So far so good at 400 miles . . .

 

This is ridiculous....

 

I don't buy that 2% figure. There are too many complaints about this tranny and many complaints about failed rebuilt replacements on the Acura petition, CarReview, newspaper articles, gripe sites, etc., for me to believe the true figure is less than 5%. I've come to believe it's even higher than that! I certainly don't trust Honda's spin doctors! Thanks to all I've read on the tranny issue, I won't be considering a Honda product for many years to come because I want a 5AT and Honda hasn't demonstrated that they know how to make a roadworthy one. If I were in the market for a 6MT, the TL would be on my list.

Good luck if you own a TL 5AT or plan on buying one!

 

All I can say is there had BETTER NOT be a tranny issue with my 04 tl .... Has there been ANY problems with the auotmatic 04 tl ? I am thinking I have read only problem's with the 04 tl 6 spd. Can anyone clarify?

 

Here's some info on someone being injured from a malfuntioning tranny. My wife's best friend was driving an 02 TL (one I helped negotiate) when she notice it down shifting while driving down the highway. Took it to the dealer that she purchased from and they said everything was fine (no service done). They RIPPED her off on a service call earlier (refunded a substantial portion). The next day, with her 12 yr old child on board the tranny seized @ approx. 45 mph. She has since had two surgeries to her back and is in constant pain. She has lost her job and cannot complete normal everyday tasks. She is a very honest and genuine person who has had her life turned upside down. She has retained a good attorney and is persuing both the dealer and Acura. They admit there was a problem with the tranny but are fighting over who is to blame. Several doctors have provide info supporting her case. I very much like the redesigned 04 TL but am waiting to see if another problem arises with the transmission.

 

The tranny being replaced on my 04 TL is the 5spd auto.

 

Sad, Very Sad. Sorry to hear of your problems fsconsult. I've got to thank you for shaking it off and sharing. Keep us posted!

 

RBOBO ,


I am about 60 miles from you .. if you have followed any of my post's you will se I was involved in an accident due to my tranny and have some serious neck injuire's. I think it would be HIGHLY beneficial if you let me contact you or the lady involved as ,they have claimed there are no accident;'s involving injurie's and as I have suspected ALL along ,there are cases we have not heard of just as you have described..please I urge you to contact me rigth away . And again I am in Florida nd VERY close to you.

 

That Girl, this is EXACTLY why I left Honda!

 

Fsconsult,

I know you have posted this elsewhere, but what exactly is the vibration you feel, I have one at 30mph and anouther at 50mph, the car vibrates, and sounds like a truck, it is not servere, but is more of an anouance for such a smooth car. When I put it in SS mode with this happening and downshift to the next lower gear it goes away.

What is the build number of your TL, mine is in the 1600's?

Thanks in advance!

 

My engine vibration also occurs at lower speeds, but not as bad as when I reach 50-55 mph.

The reasons that made me suspect that it was the engine/tranny and not the tire issue many are experiencing:

1. Vibration does not occur when I release the gas. In other words, when I reach 50mph and the vibration is felt, releasing throttle eliminates vibration
2. Down shifting to 4th using SS at 50mph also eliminates the vibration. If you use SS and shift on your own, and not use auto, engine vibration does not occur.
3. Engine sounds rough at 50-55 in auto mode. Also felt rough at time at lower speeds.
4. Vibration felt in steering and gas pedal.

Also, best duplicated on an inclined road when constant gas is needed to maintain 50-55 mph. Vibration is also high frequency in nature.

I also have the tire vibration many is experiencing. The engine vibration is higher in frequency than the tire related vibrations.

My build number is in the 2800's.