First, let me say I really like my 04 TL 6spd. But lets face it, its a low 30k car and nothing more. This is what makes it a likeable car at a good value.

I just drove an 07 RDX yesterday and while it was nice, it's not even close to being worth the asking price in my opinion. $37,800 for a 4 banger (fully loaded) no larger than a TSX? Its bigger than a TSX yes but not any wider like a TL and its gas mileage is atrocious. I'm still pretty sure my 6spd would wipe its ass with it too.

Now the type-S TL is on the way. What gives? Another front wheel drive car for everyone to complain about torque steer again. I knew when I bought mine to go for the 6spd because Acura had never offered it in the TL before and you got a lot more car for the same price. Not to mention fun. (I don't wanna hear AT drivers complain about commutes because I drive 90min in bumper to bumper each way every day and still wouldn't consider an AT, its ok, you just woundn't understand). Now it appears you can't get a 6spd without paying for an S?? Maybe they're just trying to phase out the remaining 6spd trannys???

The car honestly looks pretty lame so far (my opinion of course), the Honda instrument cluster, the tail lights and exhaust, I don't even want to go there. Is this the best they could come up with??? I guess I'm the one trippin because what I paid 32k for what they're going to ask thousands more for. I don't get it. I don't see enough changes to the car. How bout more bluetooth supported phones, that would be a nice change for 07.

I don't know the sticker yet but after I laughed myself off the lot yesterday over the RDX's price, my guess would be Acura's going to want around 40k. Puh-leeeze! Know your audience.

 

I have to agree with you about the RDX.

The combination of price, interior room, and gas mileage won't cut it, and that's what the GM of Curry told me hears from potential customers every day.

 

Wow, the RDX is that much? For some reason I was thinking high $20s, maybe $30. $38, no f'ing way.

 

Acura is trying to move more upscale and less value oriented (IMO)

They need to do away w/ FWD if thats what they're really trying to do though. Maybe leave the TSX as thier FWD car, and make the TL Sh-awd.

 

WAY !!

 

I've been trying to say this...maybe in friendlier terms...for a while now but you've nailed it. As nice as the Type-S is, the competition in this segment is brutal. 39K-40K for a TL that's still FWD and less than 300 hp isn't going to cut it. And it doesn't matter if the car is a true contender or not...we can argue about its power and handling capabilities all day...the automotive press simply isn't going to treat it as such. No way, no how. Unfortunately, alot of buyers put alot of stock in the comparos and at that price point will buy something else, even if it's a little more expensive. That's why I think the Type-S will have to move at a significant discount, even at low volume.

As far as the competition goes, they are all playing to win. Every contender, from the IS to the G35 to the 3-series are all killer machines in their own right and are taken more seriously in the entry-level luxury segment because they are RWD. The TL, despite the fact that it has (had?) class-competitive speed and handling, is seen mostly as a value leader and sells "accord"ingly (word play intended) based on features/quality vs. price. The Type-S totally nukes that sales model with an MSRP that's going to bump too close to the "serious" contenders that have 1) RWD, and 2) 300+ hp. If you really need to stay in the Acura family, a small step up from that price gets you to the RL, which is another story in itself...

But really, I'm just beating a dead horse. I love the TL but I hate what Acura is doing with the Type-S. All IMHO, of course. It'll be interesting to see what Acura intends for the next generation TL...everything else is just tiding over until then.

 

Acura/Honda know they have to do away with the front wheel drive, but the TL's and TSX's 5 year cycle isn't up yet, so they don't want to do any dirastic changes to it. Notice the RL, the 2nd gen MDX and the RDX have SH-AWD. These are all pretty new and their cycles have just started.
The addition of the type-s was a nice option, but 39k just for it is asking to much. After all the 5 year cycles end for the curretn gens, SH-AWD will be in all acura cars and suvs.

 

That's why the Type S isnt for everyone. It's for a certain group of auto enthusiasts who are more in tuned with their car. As you can tell, the Type S is not for you and Acura knew there would be customers like you who had no interest in that model. Why dont you think its just a taste of what they may offer in 09? This gives them time to clean out the bugs in the 3.5 and new trannies while new customers run them in real life. Just so you know, there has been a lot of positive comments on the Type S in other threads. Look at all the other cars running in the 40's now. This car is still a great deal.

 

No more RSX, they told me that the RDX is a replacement for the RSX, however almost double the price.

 

I agree with the posts here.... they have priced themselves out of contention..

But, the market will tell them they must change... unless of course there are enough 'idiots' that are willing to buy them at the inflated price.. if not, then things will be discounted a lot..

 

The current crop of contenders have 2 plus years of improvements over the TL. You're trying to compare apples to oranges. The new TL is a great 2004 car updated with some features to keep it semi competative until the next gen TL comes out. By that time the Lexus, infinity and 3 series will start to show their age.

In a couple of years the RL will have a V8, the TL will get SH-AWD, the TSX will get a coupe and the NSX will get a V10. It's a slow progression to the upscale market for Acura. It takes time.

In the mean time I'll hold onto my 2005 TL. I'm still having to much fun with it.

 

Sigh. Yet another example of "Dealers. Know. Nothing".

No more RSX period, RDX is its own vehicle.

And it's off topic anyway.

Back on topic, I agree with the OP to some extent, it'd be nice to have the option to buy the 6MT with the "base" TL. Better get your '06s while you can, otherwise you'll have to pony up another several G for the chance to row your gears!

 

Couldn't have said it better.

 

When the TL was redesigned for 2004, and the CL was killed in 2003, Acura stated that the end of the RSX would be the end of the "Type-S" moniker. They should have kept their word. AMG and the M division are in-house tuners, "Type-S" means nothing to me. I see "Type-S" shift knobs and seatbelt shoulder pads in every Autozone I go to. It might be fitting on a $17k Civic, but for $39k calling it the TL "Type-S" is almost humorous. If they're trying to move upscale, they're doing it the wrong way.

 

Glad to not be the only voice of dome around here. I also add the new $48,000 MDX to the list of mistakes. Perhaps they are going after a new more upscale target market that I am just not part of. RDX makes no sense to me@ $37,000 or more; just like the $40,000 TL-S. I'm going to sit all of these out.

0T0H, lots of cars seem to be trying for 10-15%. increases.

 

I guess Honda/Acura has not yet learned its lesson. Look at the RL priced at 50k!! It sold a little while at MSRP, but due to prolonged lackadaisical sales (as the RL does not compete well with the top dogs), its asking price has been deeply slashed to reflect supply and consumer demand. I believe an important aspect of moving the Acura nameplate upscale is to provide upscale repair service to customers, in addition to sales service.

 

on those slashed RL prices. I'm actually considering upgrading because of that, and time is now short because a de-featured RL is on the way at the prices the fully optioned RL is at now. I'm still on the fence about upgrading. The RL is actually worth $50k and it DOES compete with the big guys, but Acura fails to market that awesome car appropriately. Just go to the RL board here and see how much RL owners love their car, but bemoan Acura, and the lack of a V8 option and RWD and etc.....That side needs a little of the TL spirit as folks here are PASSIONATE about the car.

I also agree with the spotty upscale service. I get upscale service at my Acura dealer, but I constantly hear about Acura/Hyundai or Acura/Buick dealers, and the matching (lack of) service right here on our board. Acura REALLY needs to police their dealers better. My dealer is actually an Acura/Volvo dealer, so at least there are two high-end marques at the same dealership, I can deal with that, and the Acura people are segregated from the Volvo people, which is even better.

Back on topic (bad moderator, bad moderator!), the TL-S is too much to pay just to get an MT. There will be some who pay the price....and those are Acura's new high-end customers. If only they marketed in places where people of means typically hang out.....e.g. American Medical News (the national newspaper for doctors)....tennis tournaments.....major golf tourneys (The Acura/Firestone Open!)....Robb's Report?.....I dunno, just put the damn ads where us people who can afford to pay more will see the product so that we'll run to the dealer.

 

Thats because the RL doesnt have the LOOK. This is the problem. It doesnt grab your attention. I was in the same phase as nueronbob and was about to trade my TL in last week for an RL until I test drove it. I wasnt feeling the car. Even the inside didnt flow well like the TL. They need to learn off the TL's designer when redesigning the RL. I kept looking back at the TL in the showroom and kept saying.. wow.. I have that car and it looks sexy vs the RL. I couldnt do it.

 

Hence the reason I got mine when I did. It was my last chance to get a car that I have always wanted somewhere in the back of my mind and to get one new and unadultered at that.

The rumor is a 2 door TSX with the RDX (turbo k24) engine sometime next year as a 2008. Possibly even a convertible to compete with other brands like VW and it's new EOS.

 

So have the new Acuras shed the Honda stamp from all parts? In this supposed upscale move with higher prices, in addition to dropping FWD as most people have stated, they need to change anything that says Honda.

 

Now why in the hell would the RDX replace the RSX? A SUV replacing a coupe?
What has happened is tha the RSX has had to many issues and by adding the TL Type-s, Acura had to drop their troubled RSX out of the lime light to complete their 7 car/suv line up.

 

RDX/MDX
TSX/TL
RL
NSX
-----
6 models. Not including the RSX, which is now discontinued (and it will not be missed).

I don't think the RSX was particularly troubled, but it didn't fit the luxury image that Acura is currently trying to rebuild. Hey, if Apple can rebuild cachet after a disastrous 90's, Acura can too, as long as they build on the success of the TL and MDX by not f**king them up.

 

In addition the what was already stated....RL has limited configurations. Not everyone wants AWD. Not everyone wants a V6. Not everyone wants a Navigation. Here are the sales figure for 5 series AWD in the month of Aug.:

525xi (E60) 388
530xi (E60) 677
Total: 1,065

Compare this with number of RLs sold 1,134...and number of 5s sold 4,445.

IMO Acura was over ambitious with their one size fits all solution. Granted, this helps them to keep the overall cost down but it also takes away from their sales.

 

Agreed, good post.

This thread is full of ranters, ravers, whiners, and Monday-morning marketing managers.

The Type-S 2007 Tl is simply a mild upgrade over the standard TL, nothing more or less. It falls in line with inline with what modifications Honda/Acura has done before with the Si/Type-S but not the Type-R (which was more limited in Acura-modifications). It cost ~$4K over the base TL which gives you the upgraded suspension, engine, breaks, looks, interior, trim, and engine. That is ~12%, which if you were to do the chanegs yourself would cost more. That number is similar to other differentials Acura has charged for the upgraded Acura models in the past (ie the 6-speed 230HP Gen-2 Legend).

I agree the dropping of the 6MT from the base is sad, probably done for economics sake since I rarely see other 6MT 3G TL's out there. But for folks to imply that Acura has oversold the TL Type-S in the upper $30K space is ridiculous. If the 300HP and RWD was your factoring then why would MB sell a E class when the Dodge Charger uses the same 5AT transmission and rear suspension as the E-class?

Although many magazines will still chide the TL over the FWD platform in that space it will probably continue to sell well despite the competition (G35, IS, 3 series,...).

What many folks still forget in this formum is that people select cars for many different reasons well beyond the RWD and silly 300HP debate. Dependability, fun, size, features, functions, comfort, safety, style, reliability, etc. People are looking for the total driving and ownership experience.

Acura was definitely lost in the 90's with their mediocre bland designs but with the MDX and TL they have pushed themselves forward again. Not everything they're making is a hit, I would a agree the RDX is priced high and not segmented well in the small high-end SUV space.

 

Yes, a whole package. The TL is selling well in it's segment through 06. For 2007 the competition has raised the bar and I just don't think that Acura is responding in the most profitable way. While the model refresh is a good idea, switching around the options is questionable, again, to me. The larger issue is the price increase that does not look to be deserved. You need to show real improvement to justify increases and again, I don't see that at this time. First build a car without issues then raise prices. The fact that the TL is finally getting the navigation system that will equal that in a Civic is not a reason for a price hike imho. Changing the navi to non-touch screen ditto. Just read a review of the Lexus LS460 and they are going to a touch screen. The new price is frightfully close to a 3 Series and while I love my TL, it's not a BMW and should not be priced like one.

Of course they didn't ask me about any of the changes. I still get to vote by electing to not make a purchase at this time. I'll wait and see how things go.

 

When I bought my TL in February of 2004 for $31K, I though it was a good deal. Today, I would not consider the Type S at $35K, let alone $37.

What Honda/Acura does not realize is that you have to add equipment AND hold the line on price to maintain sales volume as a model ages.

I still love my car and hope it lasts another 8 years or so. I'm saving for a Cayman!

 

Was in my friends 03civic last night, recognized his stock AT shifter immediately...its used in the type-s.

 

Just an update, I think you all could get a really good deal on the RDX...I drive by an acura dealership everyday on my way home from work and see the same RDXs just sittin. Has anyone even seen more than a handful of these heaps on the road? Remember when the TL came out? They were poppin up everywhere.

Same with the TL type-s, at first the dealership wouldn't even unlock the doors to these cars and now they're beggin you to sit in one. I brought my TL in for service twice in a couple of months and the same cars were there. I was checking out the type-s and the salesman starts his sales pitch, he rattles off the yeahs of the -s and then I ask the question...What does this -S have that mine does not for thousands more? A 3.5 instead of a 3.2 he says....and????....that's it....WOW! Damn I'm glad I swooped on a 6spd when given the chance.

 

and lexus parts don't say toyota?????

 

Eh, can't believe I'm going to jump into this fray, but w/e.

What can you buy that competes with the Acura TL-S for 36k?

The Acura TL is bigger in size than the G35 and IS, its 5 series and GS sized. If you compare the TL to the 5 seres and GS V6 models, its walks all over them in terms of price and horsepower it competes VERY well. For the price there is nothing out there that competes with TL. Yes a V8 5 series and GS is faster but they also cost what an RL costs, which means you guys aren't even comparing apples.

As far as the FWD vs RWD comparison, give me a break with all the modern technology thrown into cars these days for day to day driving what difference does it make.

As far the 6 spd only in the TL-S. If you want the 6 spd odds are you're thinking performance and you're going to want the extra features the TL-S offers anyway. If you're not one of those people then find another niche car. Acura is in the business of making money not satisfying every person on the planet.

As far as the RDX. It's no more ridiculous than the BMW X3 and is perfectly inline with Acura's move upscale.

As far as ditching the RDX, how is that any worse than the BMW 1 series or the A3 or that hatch C230 from Benz. Cmon people think.

What makes me sad is that when the next TL comes out, it's probably going to be in the 40s, which is a shame. Personally I liked the Acura b/c it was a Honda Accord with all the options and an extra year of warranty and thus removed negotiation points from a dealer. Nothing pisses me off more than trying to get a good deal on a car with your desired featuers and having a dealer going "Well what about this car with these features." Oh and I thought it looked better than the Accord style wise.

Quite frankly if Acura moves itself upscale the next time I'm shopping for a daily driver, it will be at the Lexus dealership b/c they're still number 1 in build. I didn't buy Acura b/c of the nameplate. Sorry but if I wanted a nameplate I'd still be driving my leave me on the side of the road twice in a single month german engineered roadster.

 

go check out www.acura.ca they replaced RSX with CSX and they have a CSX TYPE S ..... that csx type s has the same engineer as the CIVIC SI and it's 9000 buxs more ..... 9000 more for leather navi and some other small changes??? would u guys get a CIVIC SI or a CSX TYPE S ???

 

I owned a 98 RL prior to my 04 TL, and drove a friends 05 RL several times. A swing and a miss.

 

aesir 11 / Nello1, I agree with you two ''ALMOST''100%,..... the TL-S is what is, whether a 6sp / or a 5AT, it's a decent car for the money the RDX is short on roominess for me !..the price outrageous, I wouldn't pay that kind of money either...but that's what the going price's are for these machine's these day's , just rember one word "VALUE"......!! try buying a Lexus IS350 or BMW 3 series with these option's and you'll probably pay close to 9-10K more for the Marque prestige!.....I'd take an M-B before the BIMMER!.... then Later kick yourself in the "ARSE" and ask yourself why did I do it! ....spent way too much$$ not happy with it and didn't get enough bang for the buck!....then realize those Marque's aren't all cracked up to be what they are!...just remember this HONDA/ACURA's have decent reliablity, legendary engine life, good handling ,a great everyday driver,good look's , and FWD that'll take you anywhere on the snowy day's !...LEXUS, RWD great for dognut's in the snow! very scary on ice!... quiet yes, ride plush of course ,BORING INTERIOR'S! Midiocre suspension's , the top it off with more body roll!...decent reliability and GRANNY and GRAMP's styling "YAWN"... Etc........BMW, RWD ,which is a good thing !....with I think I'm turning Japanes styling, decent handling , electronic gremlin's from hell, ,I don't think so...if you don't mind it being in the shop twice month!!.... Great re-sale value , yeah give me a break, , if it's an M car! ....pick your poison , just remember, it's your money , you can humiliate yourself anyway you want and pay for it in the long run too!it's your perrogative, that's my two peso's worth !....peace out!'

 

Infiniti kept the prices of the 2007 G35 pretty close to the outgoing model. I spoke to a Infiniti dealer just a couple of days ago and asked about how the new G35 was doing. He said sales were good, but not as good as they had hoped for. Inventory was building up. Acura better keep the prices under $40K for the '09 TL even if SH-AWD is standard/optional. Didn't the RL teach them something ? Unless they expect current 3G TL owners who don't want to pay $40K+ to take a loaded 8th-gen Accord EX-V6 for $32K instead ?

 

Look into a eye exam.
TL-S shifter
2004 Civic Shifter

The 2001-2005 Civic had the same 4AT shifter (my Mom has a 2002).

FWIW the 1st gen Lexus LS400 used the same 4AT shifter as the Toyota Camry (consumer reports caught that parts bin engineering, which is OK in my book).

I

 

I hear ya ,....Acura/Honda , need's to make small price adjustment's in pricing, some price adjustment's (priced accordingly)they went up between $150 to $300 on some vehicles on both sidesA/H ! ....they missed the boat on getting on board with Luxury segment and built up the ACURA marque as toyota did with LEXUS !....as usuall a day late a dollar short! .....infinity has a good product going also ! ....