I have seen many guys here complainging about headliner falling down, rattles and loose fit of interior trims, body kits.

During my test drive of 04 TL, I also noticed a very rough idle, much rougher than the 03 TL-s, which is in turn rougher than 03 TL-p, which is in turn rougher than Infiniti I35.

I heard that the first gen TL has been supremely well-built and no malayse. So i wonder if now the TL really become an "American built" car with crappy craftmanship, as it has been built here for 6 years, so it get totally "americanized".

 

Do a search and get a grip. You'll see just as many owners talking about how much they love their TL's and have no problems. This has been discussed many times. Just read past threads instead of starting a new one.

 

And IM one of those LOVERS! This car is perfect, I could not ask for anything more!!!!!

 

did you have the comparison to show us?

 

Is it that they run rougher or that the more open exhaust flow gives the engine a more noticeable exhaust note?

 

It is not the noise. It is the vibration coming thru the body , seats, and steering wheel. CAI could be a reason for it.

 

My 1993 Toyota Camry was built in Kentucky. It was solid and extremely reliable for all of its 11 years and 103,000 miles, requiring regular maintenance, a water pump, and two power window repairs. Even the exhaust system was original when I sold the car last month.

My 1999 Toyota Solara was built in Canada. So far, so good.

My Acura, which is only a few weeks and 800+ miles old has NONE of the issues described in various threads. The headliner is fine, the paint is fine, no rattles, no vibrations, the transmission is fine, my seats aren't stretching and they remember their settings. Fuel economy according to the trip computer on two highway trips was in the mid to high twenties.

The engine is fairly smooth, but remember that it's a pretty high-strung engine with high compression and cam profiles that are more radical than your average grocery-getter engine. The roughness and noise is a tradeoff when you get 270 horsepower out of a smallish V6 engine with excellent economy and emissions characteristics. If you want to know from rough and noisy, try a ride around the neighborhood in my '69 Dart!

As you're fairly new here (as am I), here's a bit of advice...

...these forums are a magnet for those who have complaints. Those who are satisfied rarely speak up, therefore, I would tend to give FAR more weight to the positive comments than the negative.

Even though I'm new both to Acura-TL.com and TL ownership, I give the above advice as a veteran of various message boards. Human nature is what it is whether the subject is Acura or computers or anything else.

Good luck in making your decision.

 

Dude wtf are you talking about.. EVERY car has their problems
look at Mercedes.. how many people with mercedes complain about problems.. i knew a person whos windoes wouldnt go up after putting it down... and it kept happening.. yet its the highest selling car in the world.. look at BMW it has their problems too.. look at Jettas look at Nissan G35s and 350zs , they had tranny problems.. Every car has problems.. So shut up.. and its Assembled here in America.. its not "American" Technology.. its still made by japanese technology.. so shut the hell up.. and live with what ever piece of shit you have.. because iven ever had a problem with my car yet.. i have 13,000 miles..

 

I don't feel this vibration you talk about. As far as I'm concernd, the TL is the smoothest car Ive ever driven. Who's TL has this problem anyway?

 

I have not noticed any rough idle. In fact, I noticed today that the idle is very smooth, and I can hardly feel the a/c cycling on and off, unlike my 1G TL (96 model).

You are basing your assumptions on one test drive of one car, and also what you have probably read in this or other forums. Remember, not every car is perfect, and the problems that occured a few years ago, before forums were widely read, are the same problems occuring now, but they get more publicity and attention.

Drive a few more, or better still, buy one, and you will be a convert for life, and enjoy yourself immensely to boot.

 

Here's the run-down on the initial quality of my 4 week old TL (vehicle ID 59xxx):

- no rattles
- no falling headliner
- no misaligned doors, trunk, bumpers, or glovebox
- no rough starts
- no seat memory issues
- no tire problems
- no paint issues
- engine idles smoother than my previous car (330i), the '04 Audi I test drove, and the Lexus IS I test drove

So there's another data point on Acura initial quality.

 

Ron, I have a 03. The racy engine and stiff brakes took me a year to get not very used to. Was considering a 04, but seems the quality is declining and I don't like the added tech shit that cost extra to use( XM, DVDA, BT), prolly I will buy a M35 when it turns to the second year after debut.

 

Might I suggest a Camry or Accord? They're excellent ordinary sedans without all that "tech shit" you don't want.

BTW, I tend to believe that Nissan/Infiniti quality is not as good as Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura. Check Consumer Reports and JD Power.

Regards,

 

Any company can make crappy cars regardless. Most of the crappy trannies that are being recalled in Honda vehicles were made in Japan!

 

The quality doesn't seem to be declining to me. As stated above, forums tend to draw people with issues with their cars, so that's what you see. Then there are people like me who like the car, warts and all, and say so. You should read my progress reports--click in my sig--before you write off the '04. Or maybe you should get a non-navi (slightly less "tech") '05 TL. 60k owners can't be too wrong!

By the way, the car spends less time in the shop than my 2G TL did.

 

True. The heartfelt wishes by lots of ppl here.

 

The engine idles rough enough to be felt when dead cold, at least in cars with only a few miles on them. They are very smooth at operating temperature. I noticed this when I test drove several TL's last winter, starting them from dead cold.

Dealers of other car makes warmed them up before I drove them, so hard to say if they would have felt the same.

 

The same design that causes "hard" starting to minimize emissions also adjusts the cold engine fuel mixture to minimize emissions during warm up (typically the time of highest emissions for most internal combustion engines).

In my experience, the idle usually smooths out in less than twenty seconds. That will likely be somewhat longer in cold weather.

I don't find the "roughness" excessive, and it certainly doesn't persist once the engine is warm. The engine is definitely as smooth as that of my former V6 Camry and my current V6 Solara, but with a HELL of a lot more performance.

 

Some of you on this board are some of the most abrasive, rude, thick-headed and uninformed people I've encountered on an automotive forum and your post proves it. You own a TL, so maybe it's difficult to see the big picture, but the new TL is more problematic than any new Honda/Acura vehicle in recent memory (ever?). Sagging headliners, rattles, vibration, difficulty/rough starting, door handle trim falling off, etc. Sure, only those who have problems will complain and I think there are plenty who have problems. Enough to make me wait until the 2nd year of production if nothing less.

Go ahead and bash me (I'm sure it gives you some sense of satisfaction), I won't be here to read it.

 

I AM seeing the big picture. I OWN the car. Most of the people replying in this thread own the car. You don't.

You can't drive a magazine or forum. Buy the car and gain your own experiences. Or don't. Doesn't matter to me, but don't tell Zero523 that he's wrong. He may have been a little harsh, but he has 13,000 miles of problem free driving and he's probably tired of all the whining that makes the car sound like a piece of crap. I wouldn't have bought my car last month if I didn't apply a little common sense to what I'd been reading here for the past few months.

Scan the forum. Look at the number of negative posts versus positive ones. Then look at the same people making the negative posts over and over again. Then go back and read my post in this thread of 07-16-2004 04:20 PM. Lastly, go and buy yourself a new Ford, Chrysler, or GM product so you'll *really* have something to complain about.

Regards,

 

The engine idles as smooth as any I've ever seen.

I was showing the car to someone the other day and balanced a quarter on edge on top of the intake manifold while it was idling. The quarter just sat there. I used to love to do that with my '88 Legend Coupe to demonstrate how smooth the engine ran.

As for the ride, it feels fine to me. It's firm, but certainly better than the last few vehicles I've owned.

I had one, ONE, of the headliner patches come loose. I fixed it myself and, so far, it is staying fixed.

I'm very pleased with the TL so far.

 

I wish if any 99-00TL owner remember how many quality problem complaints they heard at the time when then 2nd gen TL just came out.

The comparison will give us a better idea whether the 3rd gen TL quality dropped or not.

 

I resent and cry "foul" at the Americanized comments - the best car I have ever owned is my 1997 Outback, built in Indiana. I have had 4 TL's, all "Americanized", and flawless. My NSX, handbuilt in Japan, had a bad clutch and one tailight dimmer than the other, due to a defect in the wiring harness that I had to find, taking half the car apart. My S2000 is all Japanese and it too has been flawless. So what does it prove - that people love to bash American cars? I love 'em, including every Vette ) Ihave owned 12) and the Cobra.

BTW, the Marysville Plant consistently outperforms Honda's other plants worldwide in defects. So much for no malaise, or was that no mayonnaise?

 

I too think that the 04 tL and all of the American built Honda's have been on a declining slope of quality.. from my 89 CRX to my 98 Accord to my 00TL and now the 04TL. STUPID stuff that should not rattle, break, come off, cause issue, has in this 04 TL, and some did in my Accord.

You never hear of this kind of frequency with the older imported Honda/Acura products.

And I too have the rough idle, not just at start, that is to be expected, but at any time of the day it is driven and for howeverlong. At a red light, you can feel the vibration in the steering wheel and in the seats. My 00TL did not do this at all, in fact when I gave a friend a ride, as I pulled out of the parking spot he asked if I didn't have to start the car first before I drove it.

Can it be chalked up to compression ?? who knows, CAI ?? I doubt it. Emissions, maybe. We'll never know and Acura will never tell.

Some of us think it's rough, some don't. Some may also not have the problem at all.

 

Just to chime in. Before I bought my 1st generation TL, I had an '88 Accord LX built in Ohio.

It was the most reliable, rattle-proof and maintainence free vehicle I can think of. A 15 year old car that has no rattles, no untoward or otherwise abnormal vibration and LESS windnoise than most modern luxury cars. I'm not sure why but it is true.

As for my TL, it has a rattle in the glovebox (very minor) and wind whistling in the frameless windows. Other than that, it is a good car.

The newest TL's for the most part are quite good as well. But there seem to be a few bad apples out there and they seem to be bought by the most vocal internet users I have encountered.

Combine their typing abilities and post-whoring skills with their Lemon vehicles, you get an exaggerated and slanted view of the Acura brand.

This is not to "diss" on anyone who HAS had real problems. Instead, I'm pointing out that there is a very vocal minority we should be aware of and keep in mind when looking at the "big picture".

My 2 cents

 

I also have a share of minor problems with my TL… I am not going to sit and talk about them, since we basically covered all of them. It is useless to talk about them now, because it doesn’t really stop the rattling and such. I learn to cope with these problems. I am not going to let these stupid problems bother me… And to those who have problems or not satisfied with their TL… just suck it up trade the car in for a Lexus, which I am likely to do in a year or so. This may not be the smartest thing to do, but the quality is guaranteed.

 

I agree. In the end it's just a car.

 

I own a 2nd generation TL-S and came to this board to check what experiences others were having.
There were just as many complaints about it as there are about the 04's. (I only recently registered on this site so that I could post messages) I purhcased it despite all of the negative comments. I have had the car almost three years and it has been the most trouble free car that I have ever owned and I have been driving for 35 years. I am looking forward to trading it in on an 05 w/navi when they come out.

 

Lexus quality is guaranteed? Then so is the boredom! :fingerfawk:

 

yeah most of them don't look that exciting, but the new line of IS in a year or so will be something... Also, the new GS looks pretty nice and refined with a heavy price. So the bottom line is that you have to pay a little more for quality. However, I don't know if this applies for MBs, BMWs, or Audis... This is just my opinion

 

I'm a post-whore now ??? *sob* I'll just go back to lurking.

 

I've had my TL for a few months now, and I haven't had any of the problems that other people complain about. My parents had both a 1st and 2nd gen TL, so I have some room for comparison. Of course, I baby mine...no harsh turns, racing, etc. and I wash it with at a touchless, brushless car wash a couple of times a week...

The thing people need to keep in mind is that this is the first year of a brand new body style. It's just like a new version of software. No amount of beta testing can catch all the bugs that will be found when the software is released to the general public. But, over time, those bugs get found and fixed.

So, this is the first year of a brand new body style, and a very small percentage of owners are experiencing some problems. These problems will most likely be addressed in future TLs, and a second or third year 3rd gen TL will probably be rock solid. I doubt that the fact that this car is assembled in America has anything to do with these issues. The assemblers are only following the instructions of the Japanese engineers, who, in my opinion, have outdone themselves with this vehicle.

Also, like everyone has said before, people generally only speak up if they have a problem. When was the last time you bought a good book or movie off of Amazon, then visited the site again to post your review? Most people don't think to do that. They are merely happy with their purchase. However, when someone has a problem, they want to get the word out there, so they post about their problem. It all has to be taken with a grain of salt. For every person who has a problem, there are probably 50 people who are completely satisfied.

And if you do have a problem, well, that's what the 4 year bumper-to-bumper warranty is for.

Matt

 

According to JDPower (take it or leave it, eh?), the initial quality (3mo) of the new TL is 3 out of 5 stars. The new TSX is 5 out of 5 stars. Seems to depend on the model, not the brand.

 

vitocorleone: and notice: TSX is made in the UK, and the TL is made here.

the TSX is UK's Accord.

Damn.. there I go post-whoring again.. *slap*