My friend was reversing in his 07 TLs and as soon as he hit the brakes, the wheels locked and the car pulled to one side and slid into another car. The accident happened right and in front of me. It seems like an abs failure to me and I remember at least one other member on this forum who had a similar problem with his TL pulling to one side under heavy braking.

I tried searching the forum but I haven't been able to find the exact thread. If anyone remembers the incident or knows anyone who had a similar problem... please please help us out.

Thank you

Haik

The ABS works in conjunction with the VSA, and is not designed to work when in reverse. Not an Acura failure, it was a driver error.

X 2

Why do I think ICE was involved in this?

My ABS didn't go off when I slid on ice, that's how I got in my rear-end accident couple weeks ago. Driver/tire error on winter conditions. Summer tires on black ice.
My poor Ninja-S.

Driver error

The End

^^^^^^^^^^^^I'm with above stupid(s)

Road was dry.

So if your reversing on your steep downhill driveway on a rainy day, your abs is useless on an Acura?

Driver uninformed? Maybe he expected ABS to work in reverse (which it should)

And I don't think ABS works well around ice or snow. And just because ABS doesn't work in reverse doesn't necessarily mean it was all the driver's fault. Lost control end of story. Shit happens, move on.

I'll say that to you when you crash your car into a wall...a car that you work your ass off to have. But what the heck would you know about working, you haven't hit puberty yet.

Actually I'm quite sure he has hit puberty unless he has a severe hormone shortage..

Regardless, he's right. And yes, shit happens. Maybe its not your fault, but it sounds like its not the car's fault either.

ok, I'd rather not talk about whether I've hit puberty or not. I stand by my point. Of course, if that happened to me, I would be extremely pissed, but i'd force myself to do something about it than bitch about it. if it were me, i'd work overtime to pay off the damage, and make sure it doesnt happen again

things do happen and yeah so just move on buddy

I don't see where I was bitching, but do you take pride in being a prick?

I'm not being a prick, and the shit happens part didn't come out the way I expected it to. What I meant was I'm one to take time fixing things rather than crying over spilt milk. not that that's what you're doing, but wouldn't you want to put this behind you as soon as possible? get all the crap outta the way?

...back to topic though.

Haikoo, you mentioned that the road was dry. Was your friend reversing at higher than normal speed? I just do not see how the car could have slid. If there was an ABS failure, it seems that the car would have simply stopped - assuming normal reversing speed.

Dunno...just thinking.

In my experience ABS does/should work in reverse. The same principals apply going forward as going backward, car senses vehicle is skidding and ABS system kicks in. However, there is some ability for the car to yaw in a skid. Not knowing how close you were to the car next to you it's hard to say if the ABS should have prevented this. Was there a grade involved that "sucked" the car over? I think the lesson here is to slow down in questionable or unknown conditions. The cars systems are not perfect, they work in most situations most of the time. There is still room for those two things at the end of your legs (unless you have hand controls of course, I have two parapalegic relatives) and that thing between your ears to decide what is right and wrong and how to react. Sounds like a simple case of going to fast (no matter how slow he was going, shoulda went slower). Get the vehicles involved fixed and move on. I know it's cold to say, but it is true. The 15 year old kid had that part correct.

Which part did i have wrong?

I dunno if ABS works in reverse or not, but maybe its a skinny driveway, and anything can happen there.

oh and

How are you going fast enough to hit the brakes hard enough for the wheels to lock up and cause the guy to spin? It just doesn't make sense. Why was he driving in reverse?

dude drifted an acura
worthless without vid

You need to clarify the circumstances. I assume he was NOT backing down a steep driveway on a rainy day if the road was dry.

I did post a question about the ABS working in an emergency stop situation. I felt no peddle pulsation and thought that maybe ABS hadn't engaged.

I tested it a few days later (when I wasn't freaking out about getting out a bad situation) and it does work. As others in my thread suggested, the ABS brake pedal pulsation is quite a bit less than one might have been accustomed to in other cars.

Interesting thread. I just bled my brakes tonight and hit ABS a few times. The Acura system works very well. After the initial ABS stops after the bleeding procedure, I figured while I was at it and since my tires are getting replaced soon, why not see how good the system works. I stomped the brake to the floor and turned the steering wheel, stabbed the brakes while cornering fast, and did things that would've made any non-ABS car lose it and the car did nothing but what it was supposed to do. The front never understeered and the rear never stepped out while braking and cornering.

As for reversing, spinning out, and blaming the ABS, I couldn't stop laughing. I don't think it's supposed to work in reverse, at least mine doesn't. There's something wrong with this. First, you were going fast enough in reverse that the front spun around and hit someone. Second, the car pulling to one side probably happened first and then your friend hit the brakes expecting the ABS to somehow pull him out. I know this from experience that when you're reversing very fast and cut the wheel, the front is going to spin no matter what you do with the wheel, gas, or brakes.

And um since he was going in reverse... It became rwd-like... So when you hit the brakes in a rwd car it spins, how do I know... Well cuz I used to have a z... Easiest way to drift is cut the wheel and stomp the brakes...

The thread title is a very bold conclusion with no evidence.

What support do you have that the ABS caused this accident? It sure looks like driver error. Does your friend blame the car as well or does he admit he was driving like an idiot and it was his fault?

yo man... come on.. how fast is he reversing?

i mean.. you can do the simple deceleration math yet... unless he is doing Grand Theft Auto type reverse.. there is no way his tires can lock up with him sliding into a car....

IMHO - not all ABS systems are created equal... Having personally driven Toyotas up until I bought this TL, I've suspected for awhile the Honda ABS is not as effective as Toyota's. Some recent snow and ice around here has made this even more apparent and the worse of all is the lack of steering control when really slick.

IDK if it has to do with tires or not, I'm running stocker MXMM4s and it'll easily blow out a turn, almost as if it gives up on modulating the ABS pump at times... Release the brake pedel and hit it again it starts modulating and saves the turn????

Over the years I've learned to just plant the brakes hard and let the ABS pump do the work... The car/truck would follow where ever I steer. On this Honda it seems if I do that, the system shuts down halfway through the turn and has to be reset by pumping the brake like a non ABS vehicle???

^ bro swap those stockies, then comment, my s held on up a hill with real all season tires, I aint being a honda pheen or nothing but honestly if it is snowing and you taking a turn, to the point where you have to pump the brakes... you must be going pretty fast

When the ABS is working, you can feel the pulsation in the brake pedal. Since we had some snow, I went out and tried it. I couldn't feel it working when in reverse, but it did when moving forward. I couldn't find any technical information that said it did NOT work in reverse. But they DO say ABS works in conjuntion with the VSA, which is strictly a forward moving action.
To the OP, if you will reread your opening, you leave a strong impression that you were looking for someone, namely Acura, to blame, instead of accepting the responsiblity of your friends' actions. You are quick to point out a young persons comments as a lack of maturity, yet that is exactly what you seem to be doing.
As was said, it happens. Move on

It' s not a good idea to pump the brakes with ABS, even though many of us were taught at an early age to pump them. That was before ABS. You will actually EXTEND your stopping distance if you pump 'em today.
New technology....what can one say?
I still love my Acura

Why in the world would he be going fast enough to induce a slide in reverse? And under what circumstances would he be required to depress the brake pedal in a manner that would engage the ABS? Something's missing.

Still, chances are, like everyone else said its a 99% chance driver's error. I don't see how that story would hold up.

I think your "friend" had far more "traction" in reverse in his TL than the "traction" your going to get with help in this tread. Fix the (your) car and move on.

All other posts I've seen about brake pull were when the driver was going forward...the direction most people go fast enough for any braking anomalies to actually be noticed.

Maybe so, but but it still appears the ABS pump shuts down if you hold it too long... I'm not taking turns or inducing ABS any differently than I did in my 6000lb Sequoia, yet even with all the added mass, the Sequoia would modulate all the way through the turn, only stopping when I let up. My 07 Camry, same deal as with a 99, 96 Camrys and even a 98 Tacoma... The Honda though seems to want to quit halfway through a turn with the brakes mashed and ABS pump blaring?

I've often thought the understeer in the TL to be excessive, which is odd for the weight bias FWD platform. This is maybe just an inherant trait of the car in conjunction with the ABS system? I'm no noob, as soon as the front slides I'm off then on the brakes again for the catch, but IMO noobness may explain some of these forward moving understeer wrecks recently posted.

As far as reversing and sliding... There had to be a bit of misconduct going on, although on my driveway backing out onto a sheet of ice....

1. ABS doesn't come on, the car hasn't moved more than "x" MPH for the ABS system to test/set.

2. The front brakes have greater force than the rears and as a result are more sensitive, taping the brakes in reverse on glare ice, I do note the front wanting the slide to the side... But I'm usually turning the wheel slightly to avoid the 'driveway hog' and wouldn't you know it, that's the direction the front wants to slide!

Why would anyone want to mash their brakes all through a turn hard enough to engage the ABS?

Better yet why would anyone driving that fast want to engage their brakes in a turn & not before the turn, then power through the turn?

I took factory delivery of my BMW 330Ci & it comes with a few days at the BMW driving school. The word on ABS is push the pedal as hard as you can & hold it there. I was always used to the pump you brakes drill in cars.

One of the exercises was on a radio command hit the brakes while turning sharply out of lane. I got a good earful from the instructor on my first attempt when muscle memory took over & I started to pump the brakes on the turn out.

BTW on a measured grid they have the full ABS application in a turn to a full stop was always much shorter then trying to pump them manually, also as the wheels gain traction the ABS will drop out as its supposed to.

yea. seriously... ive never been going in reverse in ANY car fast enough for the tires to slip... rain or sun or snow... reverse is for getting out in and out of parking spots really.... driving anything over 10mph in reverse is wild shit..

i dont know if the ABS is or isnt supposed to work in reverse, but why would you expect it to ? people dont drive in reverse...

oh, and about an accident w/ ABS & VSA failure... that was me. my last car had a defective master cylinder and VSA moduler, so my abs didnt kick it, and the car slip to the left (the wheel that locked up)

Thank you..

Instead of posting about your friend wrecking his car while driving like an azzhat in reverse, maybe you should drive over to his house and give him a swift kick in the nutz..

For the comment that the ABS gives up halfway through a corner... Does the ABS stop and the wheels just lock? The only way I could see that happening is if you turn the steering wheel so far that the front wheels are no longer pointing even close to the direction the car is driving. In that case, I could see the ABS just letting the wheels lock even when working right.

Remember, there's only so much traction available from each tire. If you turn while braking you're not going to stop or turn as well as if you do each separately. If the front end completely breaks traction in a turn, there's no traction left for braking and you can't expect the abs to do anything.

Some systems, not the TL's but others I've driven will lock the wheels at low speeds like 20mph.

When I was growing up and a friend had a POS '81 Subaru station wagon, I learned very quickly that when reversing very fast as in over 10mph, the slightest twitch of the wheel will send you in a spin that is not recoverable. I did it the other day in the TL. My neighbors that I don't like were outside so instead of riding my brakes backing down the driveway I let it coast and cut the wheel on a pile of wet leaves (might as well have been ice) and spun the front end around. I put it in drive as it started to spin, and drove off normally with the neighbors staring.

Something else to think about that I have never thought about until bleeding the brakes last night.. With the air out of the system, my ABS doesn't seem as conservative. That was one of my complaints with the TL after I put the better tires on, not to mention the brake pedal has always been spongy compared to other TLs. It seems like it brings the car much closer to the edge of traction now.

And last, I can stop faster in a straight line on dry pavement without ABS. Where the abs comes in handy is if you brake a little too late and have to enter a turn while still on the brakes. My GN would tend to lock the inside front tire where the TL can modulate that wheel independant of the others. For me, on the track I prefer no ABS because I feel that I can "adjust" the car coming into a turn if I need to and most factory ABS programs tend to be a little conservative.

No, not a normal turn by any means... ABS in the simplest sense was created though to allow steering with the brake fully depressed. Without ABS you need to pump the brakes, this is how I was taught to drive when slowing down quickly to avoid an object. Locking the brakes on a no ABS car will send you right into the object. Pumping them allows the wheels to spin which allows the car to turn, with the wheels locked you have basically skis that go only in the direction of the mass.

With ABS, you just slam the brake pedel and hold it... If you need to avoid an object, you steer the vehicle in the direction you want to go and the vehicle should go there until you let up... All the while the ABS pump will/should modulate the brakes providing "turning traction."

However, in the TL I note that before the vehicle comes to a complete halt while my foot is still mashed into the brake, the ABS pump quits and the wheels lock... Holding the brake down when this happens keeps the wheels locked, letting go momentarily and then holding them again regains ABS pump functionality.

I've never experienced this in prior ABS systems.

FINALLY - just as a 4x4 can't stop any faster on snow than dry pavement NO CAR will stop any faster with ABS as opposed to the same car without ABS... Mass is mass and there's nothing you can do about it... I will however note that folk who are not quick enough to "manually modulate" brakes in a quick stop application easily look like pros when given ABS. So in a sense it "helps" poor drivers "stop quicker."

FINALLY - just as a 4x4 can't stop any faster on snow than dry pavement NO CAR will stop any faster with ABS as opposed to the same car without ABS... Mass is mass and there's nothing you can do about it... I will however note that folk who are not quick enough to "manually modulate" brakes in a quick stop application easily look like pros when given ABS. So in a sense it "helps" poor drivers "stop quicker."[/QUOTE]

I was right with you until this final point. I sliding tire will not stop as quickly as one that is not locked up, and isn't sliding. It comes down to traction AND mass. A simplistic comparison is one of comparing a bald tire to a fresh tire, or ice covered roads vs. dry road. The major advantage that ABS gives "normal" drivers is that the ABS minimizes lock up in adverse conditions. ABS, under certain conditions, will stop a car in a shorter distance than you are physically capable of.

yes, i love the myth that 4WD, or AWD is invincible in snow.. dont matter how many wheel drive, or ABS, VSA whatever. ice is ice.. snow is snow..

going forward, dont drive fast in reverse, and it will never happen to you again. post pictures of the damage, so we can all get an idea of just how fast you were going in reverse. im sure these cars are capable of atleast 25mph in R.. which if you were doing, then you kinda deserve to damage your car...