I changed my 6MT trans fluid today with the GM Synchromesh stuff that some on this board recommended. All I can say is WOW!! It's night and day in terms of shifing quality. My car was fussy about going into 3rd when rushed, and now it's perfectly smooth. It's unbelievable to me that such a simple thing can make such a huge difference.

A couple of notes on the actual procedure:

There is absolutely no need to remove the battery as the service manual says. You don't have to remove the airbox either. Just unclip the wiring harness from the left side under the snorkel, undo the 4 screws and prop it up against the air filter. It's then a straight shot down to the fill plug with a long 3/8" extension. Very easy.

There's also no need to remove the entire plastic shroud from the underside of the transmission. The rearmost bolt is a PITA to reach, so just leave it in. The shroud bends down with the 4 clips and the front bolt removed, leaving plenty of room for your drain pan.

Also, since the change requires 2.3 quarts of fluid, leaving .7 quarts extra, I used it as a final flush once the original fluid had drained. The amount of gold sediment in the bottom of the drain pan was amazing, and my car only has 8K on it.

If you haven't already made the change, definitely put on your to do list.

 

Thanks for the posting, I've read enough folks on here and some other Honda sites trying out the GM MTF that I'm going to change my 6MT with it next weekend along with a oilf/filter change.

 

I changed mine a few months ago with similar results. DO IT!!

 

My MT is starting to fight back on 3rd gear as well. I only have around 3500mi which is lower than the 8k you say you had. Seems pretty early for this to be happening. The GM stuff making it shift better is one thing but the fact that it is already fighting back at 3500mi is a bit worrying. I traded PMs with BretG and he said he experienced the same at 5K and it was fixed by the GM stuff as well.

I'm probably going to change the fluid soon as can get some and have the time.

The "final flush"....do you mean you emptied the gearbox, put the plug back in and put a bit of the GM in and then drained again and then put the 2.3 qts in ?

Thanks,

 

Yea my third gear fights too and I have about 12k on my car. Were can I get some of this GM MTF??

 

does anyone know about warranty issues w/ the GM syncromesh?

 

I'm pretty sure you will want to keep it to yourself if you do the change. The owners manual does say synth motor oil is OK but only says Honda MTF for the gearbox. I think some have said they would even put pack in the Honda MTF if they had any issues prior to bring a car into a dealer for gearbox work/complaints. That might be a bit paranoid. I guess if they are obviously different by color, smell, etc it might be something to consider.

The part no is GM 12377916

Google "gm part 12377916 friction modified" and you will find LOTS of people raving about the stuff. With so many positive experiences in Honda and non-Honda applications I'm not too worried about it causing problems. I have seen words like "you have to try it to believe it" many times.

 

I've been wondering about this also. I really want to try GM MTF then again it's not an approved lubricant to the TL 6MT.

FWIW Manual's are much simplier than automatics so there is less to go wrong with a different MTF. The big problem with a poor MTF lubricant would be syncro wear with a potential minor issue being the seals.

I've taken apart only one Honda manual gearbox in my life, the only visible difference to other manuals I've taken apart was the gear selection mechanism was quite different. It contained needle and special ball/sleeve bearings. One of the reasons why their gearbox shift feel is smooth.

 

I think it would be impossible to tell by looking at both fluids what is what.
They are about the same weight (viscosity) and smell like gear lube.

At 5000 miles, my transmission did not seem to have hardly any wear metal
in it, but the lube did look used...

Manual transmissions are likely not very fussy about what lube you use in them,
as long as the viscosity is close.
They are mostly just big gears and bearings, and a gear is a gear.

The GM stuff has a formulation that seems to make the syncros work better,
I guess its a little less slippery?

If you go to any GM dealer with the part number, they can tell you if anyone has it in stock localy.

Its easy to change, put a hose on a funnel to get the new stuff in.


Brett

 

I am having problems with third gear as well. I took the car to the dealer and of course they found nothing wrong. I have had this problem for about 6 thousand miles now. I now have 14 thousand miles on the car and I am concerned that this could lead to future problems. The dealer said that since they were not able to reprodduce the problem all they could do was annotate it in there log for future reference. I guess I may have to try this GM stuff in my car as well. It somehow just goes against my better judgement. Oh Well I have been wrong before

 

05 6MT, Navi, ASpec, Anthracite, Camel, Comptech Rear Sway Bar, Comptech Short Shift Kit.

 

Somewhat offtopic:

Going to be using Amsoil MTF in BEETROOT's 2002 S2000 soon, will let everyone know of the results. IIRC, the car has >30K on the factory fluid. Will also switch the rear differential to Amsoil Severe Gear 75w-90; its hard to beat $27 shipped for 2 quarts of MTF and 1 quart Severe Gear 75w-90.

As always, at the first sign of any transmission problems, drain and refill the transmission with Honda MTF please.

Mike

 

Goes against your better judgment?
In what way?

Most oem automotive fluids can be swapped out with better fluids.
They make much better gear lube these days, 75w140 synthetic, in the old days
you just had 90 weight...

You can run synthetic oil, much better than what honda puts in.

People have been running the GM stuff a long time, its real popular with
the s2000 owners.

If it bothers you, you might swap out the old lube with new honda stuff and
see if its any better.
The GM stuff is semi synthetic I hear, the oem fluid in dino based, from
what I hear, I cant make any sense of what GM has on the bottles, its
greek to me!

Pouring both fluids, they look and smell about the same, so how much
difference can there be?

Brett

 

They can be messing with us and put a "tagant" in the Honda MTF and use it as a fluid tracer. Thus, always drain/refill the transmission with Honda MTF if you have any transmission problems before taking it in.

Mike

 

Do you really think thats likely?
It seems quite far fetched to me that they would check the lube other
than there was some in the transmission.

Better safe then sorry I guess.

Brett

 

I do believe I will be heading by the local GM dealer this week!! I had the problem with 3rd gear since I bought it new. I have driven manual transmission cars since I was 14, and never felt a shift like that. If its as simple as changing the oil, I am all for it. When I shift into 3rd, I sometimes have to push a second time to get it to seat into third.

Thank you for the tip, and can't wait to get it done.

 

I'm not mechanically inclined in any way shape or form but I really want to change to the GM stuff. Where do you recommend I go and get this done? Local mechanic?

 

Our car started doing the 3rd gear thing at about 3000 miles.
The GM stuff has eliminated that problem completely so far.

Where to get it done?

Good question, I dont trust any shops, maybe someplace you can watch them
do the work, and make sure the right amount goes in, plugs are tight but not
stripped out, etc.

Its hardly rocket science, but I dont trust shops to do something even as simple
as changing the trans lube.....

Brett

 

Anything to recomend for Automatics? Not that you change at tranny fluids a lot. But it couldn't hurt.

 

what is a "tagant"?

 

Mine started about 3K also, and I dealt with it until today. It is 100% positively gone. It's like an entirely different transmission.

As to the final flush question, what I meant was that I poured the extra .7 quarts into the fill hole while the drain plug was still out, after the factory fill had already drained. I did so just to make sure whatever sediment was sitting in the bottom of the trans. got flushed out.

 

Exactly...I was concerned about that too and they look and smell identical. There's no way anyone could ever tell short of a chemical analysis.

 

A sort of special additive which will identify the fluid as theirs and theirs alone. So they can presumably say, "Aha! You've used this other MTF (which doesn't have the tag), so your warranty is void!"

 

Correct. It is a special type of invisible fluid marker or tracer that can be detected with a $35 IR analysis. Whether or not they use it, I dunno. But, I wouldn't risk it.

Mike

 

This is what you need.....

AMSOIL 100% Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid is a direct replacement for both Honda Genuine MTX Fluid and GM #12377916. The good news is its only $7/quart, and your can order as few or as many as you need.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mtf.aspx

Dave

 

 

Any answers?

 

1) Specialty Formulations Autoglide Honda Z-1 (special order), $7/qt. www.specialtyformulations.com
2) Amsoil Universal ATF, $7/qt. www.amsoil.com or any reseller. Shouldn't have to pay more than wholesale price.
3) OEM Honda ATF Z-1, $4/qt at most dealers.

For those on a budget:
1) Valvoline Maxlife ATF, $3/qt at Walmart or Kragen's.
2) Pennzoil Multi-Vehicle ATF, $3/qt where you can find it.

Mike

 

Thanks. If I use autoglide honda z-1 atf, will that void my warranty if dealer finds out?

 

Theoretically, the manufacturer can only void the warranty if the fluid causes the damage to the transmission. However, Specialty Formulations will warranty against any fluid related damage to the transmission.

Mike

 

I have this third gear problem too. With so many people having this problem you'd think Acura would release some sort of TSB for it. For all of you that have had this, does simply changing the fluid fix it completely? I was going to take it in to the dealer and try to battle with them to do something about it (a battle which I usually have lost in the past). But if changing the fluid to the GM stuff will fix it, I'm all for it.

 

I had the same resistance going into third for the first 8500 milles, changed the fluid to GM SynchroFM and voila! The entire dynamics of the transmission from the operators standpoint have changed, very smooth and almost pre-meditated. Haven't been "denied" third gear yet and that was over 2500 miles ago.

From what I understand, the FM fluid was designed by a company on behalf of GM to help them with a troublesome early-run transmission in a few of the F-Body's and earlier Z-06's. Instead of issuing a TSB and replacing a number of internal components the wigs at GM opted to remedy the problem with a higher grade fluid. The aerospace engineer who told me this said that when he worked for Ford this was a common response in the auto-industry; in that you can use a cheap fluid in a finely evolved transmission and inversley, a higher grade fluid can be used in a not-so-evolved design to compensate and achienve similar results. (Anti-shear, friction reduction, feel, etc...)

Not to say our transmissions are shoddily designed, but it is clear that there is at least one "rough spot" that has become familiar to many of us.

Anyway; here's another endorsment of the GM-FM fluid. I had a local non-Dealership Acura Shop do the change for $40, and the fluid was around $50 for 4 quarts, of which only ~2.5 were used.

*Note: Make sure you get the correct stuff, the first dealer i went to was somehow confused about the differences among the Synchromesh fluids, especially the FM suffix. I took a picture of the bottle that someone here has posted in a similar thread with me and recognized the very small detail differences when he was trying to ring me up, had to do a city search and only one dealer out of 5 in town had the stuff. The part number may do as well, but that to was on the picture. If someone could rehost that pic it might be of great help for these guys if they go out on foot hunting for the stuff. It's hard for a know-it-all parts rep to stand in front of you and tell you that something does not exist when you have a picture of it in your hand.

 

Heeey, had no idea you were in Austin. The dealership I went to was Champion Autoplex, 8107 Research. Part #12377916. The shop I went to was Rising Sun Automotive on South Lamar, right across from the Alamo Drafthouse. The shop was very courteous and even though the change took longer and was more involved than they had anticipated, they still charged me for the quote over the phone of $40. When you go though, I would recommend making sure there is something playing at the Drafthouse, or you like Mexican food and Martini's as they have virtuallly no waiting room and they might not get to you right away if they are busy.

 

I'm actually just planning on doing it myself. I think I'm going to go by David McDavid and print out this thread and show them how many people have this third gear problem and see if there is something they can do about it. If not, I'll try switching the fluid.

I have squeaky brakes as well that I need to go complain about, so I'll do a two for one special.

 

I've bought two Cl-Ss from David McDavid, I wish you the best of luck with their service department on anything that isn't in the shop manual. I tried to inform them of a few things from the A-Cl board but thhey had a problem with the idea of information reguarding their profession being available on the internet long before they got wind of it from their superiors. Specifically, they would not accept the evidence of MANY(100's) members I brought forth concerning the frailty of the auto-tranny in the 01 Cl's, until Honda announced it over a year later. At which point they were more than willing to discus the "recently identified" issue.

I would have done the change myself, but at the time the method of approach still involved removing the airbox, temporarily moving coolant lines, front bumper disassembly, etc. Now that I hear it can be done almost as easily as an oil change which I already do, I'm sure I will do the follow up. Where are you planning on taking the used fluid? I would guess any auto service place, not sure though.

 

Good question about the used fluid. Most auto places take oil, they probably take other fluids as well. In fact, you might even be able to dump it in the oil bins since it is almost the same thing as oil.

 

How does that AMSOIL synthetic compare against the GM stuff? Does it also remove the 3rd gear hesitation?

 

I strayed from Honda's stuff few years back on my Civic 5spd MTF to supposely better stuff (forgot the model number but it was mobil) but ended up replacing 2 gears in MT 2.5 yrs later. it was smooth as hell at first but....... Honda said the stuff i used was too thick but i followed the same viscosity and other numbers. it was out of warranty anyway so i paid for it. got scared since and never mess around with other stuff MTF wise anyway. I am not saying Honda's stuff is the best but i am just not sure anymore. I thought i knew but now i know what i don't know. not about to start a new career as a chemist just yet.

 

Trial: Dunno for sure but I expect it to.
ttliang: Mobil only makes a 75w-90, which is too thick for a Honda MT. Honda MTF is a 10w-30 like engine oil with EP adds but shears very rapidly. Amsoil MTF and GMSFM are in the 9.5-10cst range which is barely a 30wt.

Mike

 

Michael, I know you're right. I had a '91 Civic Si and a '92 Accord EX and they both required 10W-30 engine oil for the manual trans.

Can you explain what shearing is because I have no idea.

Thanks!