Pug

I was driving my 6MT in heavy traffic yesterday (T-storms in No. NJ). I came out of the Lincoln tunnel (NJ side) and traffic was moving up the 495 helix at about 5mph. Normally I would be moving between 1st and neutral so as to avoid stalling the engine at too low a speed.

But I noticed that if I left it in 1st, and took my foot off the gas that the throttle by wire actually kept the RPM at about 800 so I was able to cruise along at a really slow speed in gear without stalling. This even worked going up the helix - the computer kept it pegged at 800rpm and the car went up the incline without me doing anything with the gas pedal and not even coming close to stalling - it was almost like driving an automatic ! !

cblackburn

I don't think that has anything to do with throttle by wire. I've never seen a car that wouldn't do that. I just junked by '86 accord (5 speed) and it too would pull itself along in first gear. You could even be at a dead stop, and slowly let your foot off the clutch w/o touching the gas and it would begin to move itself. I believe it has something to do with the natural torque of the engine. Someone here would know for sure, I'm betting.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Did you have your foot completely off the clutch? With the clutch fully engaged, the car should have stalled -- ECT does NOT allow you to "roll" while in first w/o gas and w/ the clutch fully engaged.

The only car to my knowledge w/ a manual that has a feature somewhat similar to what you describe is the Saturn Coupe that has a 5-spd manual and a clutch that locks half-way for when you're at a stoplight on an incline and don't wanna bumper tap the guy behind you.

The TL does NOT have this feature. Your clutch may be bad if this is what is happening.. or perhaps it's sticking and not fully engaging.

spidey07

I've never heard of a car stalling in 1st at idle???

Also keep in mind the motor has a fair amount of torque and won't have trouble moving the car even in gear at 5 Mph.

-edit- I've done it all the time in my last 5 manual tranny cars...just ease of the gas and let the car idle in 1st as it rolls along.

Pug

My foot was totally off the clutch. I just want to emphasize that this wasn't just rolling along on a level surface - the car actually when up an incline at idle and didn't stall. Maybe it's the torque, and maybe it's something common to MTs, but I used to have a 5speed Ford Probe and that sucker would have stalled if I tried to go up a hill in first at idle.

Aspector Gadget

Every stick shift I've owned does this too, VW GTI, Jeep Wrangler, Ford F150.

oguju

Actually that is not true. Even my 2000 civic si could do this, as could many other manual tranny's.

SouthernBoy

To oguju;

I agree. If you have a smaller engine (4-cylinder) without sufficient torque, you could very well stall it as you started up an incline without adding a little throttle. I once owned an original (read that as real) American mid-60's supercar (I was the original owner) with an engine that put out 420 lb/ft of torque and later around 440 lb/ft torque. It would have a problem doing this but it was not for lack or torque.. it was due to a lopey cam.

If Saturn has a clutch that "locks half-way for when you're at a stoplight on an incline", they are flat nuts! Under NO circumstances should you EVER hold a car on a hill with the clutch. The amount of heat generated from doing this is incredible. A clutch should last the life of the engine (say before a major teardown for rings, head work, etc.). If you can't get at the bare mimimum, at least 100,000 miles out of a clutch (barring racing or towing), you are doing something terribly wrong.

Just my 2 cents.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

tough guy -- you lock the car before you pull away up the incline -- you don't sit at the fricken light burning up your clutch ..

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I've driven 3 or 4 E36 M3's that would just stall when the clutch was engaged fully in first ... does that not have enough torque?

6mtV6

When I test drove a 6mt TL it stalled with the clutch fully depressed with the gear in 1st. I'm used to leaving the gear in "N" when I park a manual car. The test drive TL was left in "1st" and when I started the engine I let go of the clutch.

SouthernBoy

To PeterUbers;

?? Tough guy? What's that all about? And I never said "you don't sit at the fricken light burning up your clutch".. I said just the opposite. What does "you lock the car before you pull away up the incline" mean?

BTW.. ever heard of civility?

dougpt10

All manual cars will "creep" but you should do it in 2nd gear. If you time it right in traffic you won't have to shift but only a few times.

Sherlock

my 4 cyl 1998 Accord creeps nicely.. sometimes it's my only saving grace in wall to wall I75/85 traffic.. instead of on and off the clutch I can leave a bit of car distance and just leave it in idle in first and slowly trudge along, gives my left leg a break once in a while. But it does start to buck sometimes if it gets in a lashing cycle of the engine versus the car motion, then I have to hit the clutch to let it settle down.

FlashG

My sons 95 EX does the same bucking routine thing but my 6 Speed TL doesn't.

Pakman

My no torque 2000 Si did the same thing. I only knew about it because my friend told me about it. Except he was doing it in his bmw. I didn't believe him at first because instinct tells you that the car is going to stall, but I tried it and I was tickled pink when I found out the car didn't stall... wooo...