glg

Anyone see the 2004 initial quality rankings?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...lity-chart.htm

Lexus beats Toyota and Infiniti beats Nissan like you would expect but Honda ranks better than Acura. This implies that Honda has better quality control than Acura?? Don't get me wrong I LOVE my TL but it's disappointing to see 1. Acura only rank just above average and 2. Honda scores much higher.

BTW Hyundai spanked a lot of makers in these rankings.

clutchcargo

Thanks for the news.

A couple of thoughts (no new insight).

The scale of problem is not considered.

A friend got a new Jag XJ (sweet ride). It had two problems, one a chrome trim piece on the tail light popped off and needed to be replaced and two his motor blew (serpentine belt got twisted and ripped up the top end of the engine).

Look at how high Hyundai scored.

Look at high low Scion scored (somebody cought napping at Toyota).

dshahs

Alright my .02 cents! I am really not buying that comparisions that people are going to make. "wow how can honda be that much better than Acura?????" This is one persons opinion so NO flames...Acuras lowest model according to price would be the TSX and Honda would be a Civic and i think that a civic is much less likely to have less problems cuz people who buy this car are not going to nitpick about problems whereas someone who forks out 25,000 for a TSX will complain about problems more often. The more you pay the more careful you are. If i drive a Civic i can care less if the back rattles or not but when Acura only makes so called Luxury car, people expect that and so complain more. In a nutshell I dont buy this method of evaluation.

takuyaah

right...don't judge hyundai just because its a low ended car...it had came a long way to where it is now and their technology has been improving continuously...no i do not own a hyundai...(i have a civic and a TL-S) just be happy that honda/acura both scored relatively high and those reports cannot be totally rely on anyway...the way they construct the test is biased....the easier way to see the reliability of a car...is to measure how much money people ditch out for maintainence/year

DMZ

Gee, I wonder what Acura's standing would be if they put Michelins on instead of Bullshitstones on the new TL.

siosi

Right on. My car was at dealer for rattle fixes and I had TSX loaner that had Michelin tires. WHAT A DIFFERENCE in ride quality. Getting back in my TL , the drive was harsh. Will change new tires asap.

Lore

JD Power asked specific questions with 90 days of ownership regarding the mechanical quality of the car. And yet, this translates directly into interior quality as well.

If you give it some thought, quality doesn't imply that the car will break down in 2 years. Quality != reliability. It just means that while the product will work, the attention to detail that we've come to expect from Japanese cars is just not there anymore, esp with our Acuras.

This rings so clear for me -- I've been to the dealer tens of times (honest - and I have the work orders to prove it) to fix rattles, tire problems, etc. And of course there are paint defects that we all talk about, which I have not discussed with the service manager (Frankly, the paint issue is moot in my mind).

None of these problems affect the reliability of the car - it'll still get me from Point A to Point B to Point C, albeit with shaking and loose pieces of plastic, metal, and drooping headliners.

I wish JD Power had done a more extensive study that not only asked about mechanical quality but also overall build quality -- "fit and finish" as we like to call it.

kevd

Actually some of this was taken into account as well, see the quote below from Power's site.

Shoot2Thrill

JD powers gave me $1 to complete their 10 page survey on my BMW. I think there survey is strickly marketing. I am familiar with a medical survey company and when you know what goes on in the back room and the fact the JD Power thought I would be a horses ass and fill out the survey for a buck makes me know their survey is total BS.
Use Common Sense !

Shoot2Thrill

Furthermore, World Nissan on Route 22 in Springfield offered my work associate 2 oil filter if he would let them fill in the survey from Nissan. It seems to be SOP for the well rated dealer. Wow what a suprise!

1SICKLEX

It poll just shows who is stepping up their quality, as a few names and surprises are below the industry avg. Nissan for instance is horrendous, but publicly, they were concerned about sales and getting in the black, not quality.
If u pay 15k for a Hyandai and it may have 3 problems, you will be happy. If u pay 30k for a luxury car and it has 3 problems, WTF? comes to mind.

neuronbob

Wow. How sobering. I'm accustomed to Acura's being at the top of the rankings. How far the mighty have fallen--Acura is now just above the industry average on that list, instead of being well above. I agree with DMZ. I think a lot of people griped about their tires.

Honda must have better quality checks on the manfacturing line than Acura. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Hybrid

Also notice Scion near the bottom. That's the new Toyota division. They sell inexpensive vehicles. So based on some people's logic, the buyers of those shouldn't be picky. So why the low rating.

I don't personally buy the logic that new Civic buyers are less picky than TL owners, in that they won't take their cars in for defects, or complain about them. I expect perfection in ALL price ranges. Of course, I don't have the same standards for things like radio performance in a Civic, or solidity of things like door panels. But if theres a squeak in the suspension of a Civic, I'm getting it fixed, not putting up with it because it's a "cheap" car. It has the same warranty as the expensive car, i.e., bumper to bumper.

2004TL_believer

I owned a Hyndai xg300 the first year it came out. Not that I would trade in a million years, but the fit and finish was as good if not better than the 2004TL.

Abyss Blue Pearl/Camel/Navigation

greenseed

I agree with others here, this is a marketing ploy. I'm also claiming those figures are jilted. I mean, I don’t believe that Cadillac is 2nd, no matter what you tell me. We KNOW that GM has problems (as do all manufacturers), but not putting their product @ 2nd place.

Additionally, this data is culled from customers bribed with $1.00 into spending their time and honestly answering a document with who knows how many questions. Who has time for that anyhow, some old lady driving a Cadillac, or a 30+ white collar person juggling his/her time between work/family and perhaps additional schooling. Additionally, what value does a dollar have to a person in his 30’s pulling in 60K+ a year, as apposed to grandma saving her pennies all these years, now retired with her husband and enjoying their savings and years of frugal spending on a Cadillac, etc.

I’m not being biased here and stating that Acura is #1, but give me a break, these figures are just to fluff up the neck feathers of these manufacturers.

Lhibbitts

Just a comment on the J.D. Power Survey - whether you agree with their methodology or not, it is a very real fact that the auto manufacturers take this very seriously. I've seen several comments about how Honda ranked above Acura - I wouldn't get too wrapped up about that - the TL is built on the same assembly line as the Accord - but the Accord is in the 2nd model year of its current edition, while the TL was an all-new model for the IQS - I would expect the TL to do quite well next year. Now, if you think about the TSX, it's simply the European Accord, and it took top honors in its class - again, it's in the 2nd year for building this model, but it's the first year it's been exported to the US.

greenseed

That may have been the clincher for the TL, but the rest of the Acura products?

Honestly, these EL 42's, belong on a Pontiac Sunbird (or Sunfire or whatever its called these days).

DivinDude

I think this ranking fits in quite well with my '03 CL-S6 .. Honda/Acura has definately dropped in their quality since my '98 Integra GS-R (my CLS-6 is inferior in many ways to my '98 GS-R in regards to build quality) ... It's unfortunate, that I see many '04 TL owners complain about the same things that us 03 owners complained about .. but it fell on deaf ears .. it's a good thing for them that their dealer service isn't included in the rankings because compared to what they were in 1998, they would be at the bottom now ..

Cesci

Know several people driving the Hyundai SUV and they swear by the quality (and these are people who also own Maximas and Honda). I love my TL (it is my first Acura). But reading through all the posts........it certainly has not been without problems.

TLGator

Yes, but these are the sort of people who sniff their own farts and wear white shoes in November.

PoochaKannInc

There is nothing wrong with wearing white shoes in November!!!! hmm...perhaps I have said too much...

Cesci

Love it Gator. Gotta share this with the Hyundai-driving buddies I was referring to.

glg

Not sure if it was coincidence or not but a few days before the survey was in the paper my dealer called me out of the blue. They told me to bring in my TL for the tire vibration issue I had complained to them about 3 months ago! They checked it out and ordered a new set of tires; they also replaced the seat memory control module to solve that little issue. I must confess I was one of the people who did collect a buck and fill out that survey. At the time my dealer wasn't doing anything about the tires and I really didn't feel like battling it out with Acura. Needless to say Acura didn't get glowing remarks but I was fair. To Acura’s credit it now appears as if they are attempting to rectify the issues. :goldfish:

detroi_TL

The influence of JDP on the OEMs is very real. I wish I could show you guys the some of the OEM warranty claim charts I have seen, when sorted by build date Novemeber-December builds always show the lowest claims, OEMs make a concious effort to put out better cars during these months because these are the cars that will be evaluated for JDP's IQS.

I've heard people say that the spring is the best time to buy a car, I say wait for Nov-Dec if you want better quality.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Somtimes i think Chevy really should have been above Acura ... I know people with Chevys that have had considerably less problems than I have had with my two Acuras...

$0.02

TLGator

:lol1:

Not two cents' worth...priceless.