nova_G

This guy's responses are so frustrating to read.

This has to be one of the dumbest discussion ever. You are insisting that the 2010 MS3 is a highway monster from 4th gear and up due to "boost cut" in the first three gears which btw I was unable to find ANY type of information on. Please post up a link of your findings? Not Dyno's in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, because if that's the case EVERYONE's cars are highway monsters. The fact that you are arguing that your car is faster from 100mph+ to what ever is beyond my comprehension. That has to be by far the stupidest thing I've heard you say since the MS3 being a "demon" "supercar" which also makes me believe you have never driven ANYTHING but your car, noob to the enthusiast world, and extremely biased towards your car (understandable).

From an overall performance stand point for those of us "normal non-biased enthusiast" the 2010 MS3 is generally a low-mid 14 second car although capable of 13's stock. It traps 98-101 just like the TL. Comparing anything past 100 should be irrelevant since generally most street racers don't pass 100mph due to the chance of being caught by the police.

Your arguement that the MS3 is much faster on a roll could be true although from the cars specs and from what i read, you are over exaggerating how much faster.

BTW, MS3 GOD/KING or what ever...a member on here has a quote of your where you compared your MS3 to the likes of a "Demon" on the highway I'm sure he'll post up soon.

mazdaspeed3God

Torque steer. Bingo.

2 most critical factors that cause torque-steer on MS3:

- Gears are too short = too much power = more chance getting torque steer. If the gears were taller, it would help minimize torque steer. Ask Mazda why they decided to make low gears so tight on manual gear box, I don't know.

- HP and TQ is a bit too much for a FWD car. Also keep in mind that the power comes early too, at 3k rpm instead of 6k like on N/A cars.


But MS3 has power cut, on 1st three gears. It is true. Honda and Acura on the other hand, does not have power cut if you disable the VSC. Disabling the VSC does not help on the MS3, the power is still cut significantly.


It could be useless car for some people. It's targeted for certain demographic, those who like track racing (not stupid drag strips) and "roll-on" on the street, like me. You don't have to start from 120 mph roll. 40 mph rolling start is fine, all the way up to top speed of 155 mph. The 6th gear on the MS3 is a "performance gear", not for fuel economy. It is extremely tight and you can get from 125 to 155 very quickly.


No they are not. A car with boost cut on multiple gears will not get you the same trap speed as the car with no boost cut. It's not about launching from start, I'm talking power being reduced while the car is moving, and that is what you are not getting it.


Absolutely.


Now you finally get it. This car is NOT for drag racing. I thought I told you that a long time ago... I didn't buy this car to drag race, I bought it to ROLL RACE, and superb handling.


It is not imaginary. They are real, real power cut. How much simpler can this get? Beating or keeping up with some of 104~ 105 mph trap cars is common for the MS3.

nova_G

OMG. This guy just said if they removed the boost cut in 3rd gear the 2010 MS3 would smoke the tires............................................. ....SPEECHLESS. Please close this thread due to ignorance and arrogance from this guy. The only thing he's good for is stirring up other members due to his biased belief's of his car even though all the data is there.

nova_G

You my friend need to get in other cars. It's clear the MS3 is the fastest car you've driven/rode in. You have no idea what you're talking about if you honestly think a 260hp car without this so called boost cut can smoke tires in 3rd gear. If that doesn't show ignorance/arrogance i don't know what does.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

at somebody who buys a car specifically for roll racing.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

The trap speed he posted is fraud? Thats hilarious! I wouldn't call it fraud at all. It might seem a little high but you act like its a crime that he posted his timeslips. The way Alex pulled on that GS350 he might be trapping that high. He would probobly give you a great run from a high roll in your MS3 since you can hang with cars that run 104-105 trap speeds.

Plus even a strong tail wind isn't going to give you a 4MPH increase in trapspeed. You might be lucky to achieve a 1mph increase at best. When you race you want the weather to be in your favor. The colder it is and the drier it is the faster you will run. That isn't a crime!

Sonnick

Mazda: Trap speed is not for children. It's not the end-all be-all, but it is a good comparison, and is probably the most accurate on what would happen from a dig. From a roll, yes it's a different story but it still holds weight.

I was comparing what MOST people look at in terms of a car's performance. Every magazine, every drag racer, and every enthusiast for that matter, compares cars on their 1/4 mile time. Just because you are a tROLL racer (oops) and don't understand that 1/4 mile matters doesn't mean that the rest of the world doesn't. I understand it pulls high end, that's great. I would still guarantee I would be right next to it @125mph. After that I shift into 5th and no my car doesn't pull much at all in 5th. And I don't care because who needs 5th gear to pull in their DD?

You're so worried about the power cut in the 1st 3 gears yet say keep insisting that a 40 roll is great. Explain that?

And wtf? You said that tho I add more power gearing stays constant. WHAT!? So you're telling me because the gearing is the same, I won't gain anything from my mods? I hope not.

An MS3 without the power cut would smoke the tires in 3rd? Maybe a nice chirp on the 2-3 shift, and MAYBE a a small chirp into 4th like the RSX. But to say they would smoke the tires in 3rd? Z06's don't even do that and they are lighter and have double the power in both HP and TQ....

I can't wait to find an MS3 just so I can laugh at how ignorant you sound. I put down more power than an MS3 (with the exception of torque) and I have pretty aggressive gearing as well. For you to say I have no chance is just ridiculous.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I would love to see Sonnick race against your stock MS3. I think he would be slightly pulling on you from a 40 or 50 plus roll and eat you up from a low MPH roll or a dead stop. I have seen his vids and I have seen what a stock MS3 can do. Now A stock 7th gen AV6 6MT you would edge from a high roll, but those exhaust mods and intake mods that sonnick has brought him from 215WHP to 255WHP. So I have no doubt that his car is trapping 104MPH or higher since a stock AV6 6MT can hit 99MPH at the highest stock with only 215WHP. A 40WHP increase will easily net an increase like that especially weighing in at 3250lbs or so.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

MS3, you give me headache. You're worse than the guy that had a 6MT TL and traded it for an IS350 (manual transmission was his name I think?) Please stop posting incoherent babble.


(BTW, my sig is quoted from that other forum where you claim it isn't you, but anyone with an IQ > 90 can read between the lines.)

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

If you're talking about type-s09, he ran 13.9x @ 99.1x with an intake; it's on here somewhere. I don't see a base 6MT trapping over 100 without some decent mods.

mazdaspeed3God

You are making yourself frustrating when it's not frustrating.

The discussion is new and something you aren't aware of, or don't have any clue about. Don't just make an assumption by saying it's a dumb discussion just because you have lack in understanding in this discussion. Think before posting. Thanks.

Stock MS3 does, physically pull harder starting from 4th gear on the road. I experience this all the time. I just do not feel as much hp and torque in first three gears. That's one way to tell MS3 has power reduction on those gears. Honda and Acura cars I have driven/test driven in the past were not like that. They had good power from low gears and stayed like that till you get to high speeds. The another way to find out is to plug in the AP computer and analyze the horsepower and torque figures on the runs, on physical road. It will tell you horsepower and torque on every gears, and everything else you need. That's how some of the MS3 owners know that there are physically the power reduction on this car in stock ECU map. Don't try to compare it against the "normal" cars like yours, G35, Accord, TL, whatever.. they don't have power cut once you disable the VSC but it doesn't work like that with the MS3. Look you are getting all educated now. I don't like the fact I'm sharing out such valuable information.


Don't jump into conclusion without listening to what other poster has said, me, in this case. Therefore, you are the one acting stupid. Just returning a favor..


Now you are trolling. I have never said about it being "demon", although it is most certainly a "monster" on the highway. Trolling will get you nowhere.


It's the driver that makes all that difference. Some idiot can drive an MS3 that has no clue about proper shift points and can easily get mid 14 seconds or slower. But then once again, MS3 isn't made for drag racing. I have said this for the 3rd time now I think.


Comparing trap speed is inaccurate when comparing against different cars with different drivetrain. If you are comparing same car with different mods, then it is a good source to use. There are cars that trap 105 mph and runs much faster than the other car that traps the same 105 mph. C55 AMG for example, would smoke the IS350 and G37 in the roll races. They all have similar quarter mile trap speed.

Racing upto 100 mph is what I call "baby race". Nope, MS3 is still faster even long before you get to 100 in the roll race. 40-100 the MS3 will pull on you. Part of the reason is that it has the huge advantage in torque and weight. Try 50~ 125 or 140. Most highway runs are done in the speed ranging anywhere from 60-150. Many of them go past 100.


It is not an exaggeration. It's the reality.

mazdaspeed3God

Thank you.

Sonnick

Yea I haven't seen 101 out of a stock TL. However, type-s09 had a UR pulley too when he ran that time

mazdaspeed3God

Actually in cool weather with summer tires it's easy to spin the tires even without the power cut on the MS3 on the street. This is no news. It appears you are the one being ignorant. You don't seem to know about the tires and how traction is affected in temperatures.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

Mazdaspeed3troll: do you join every car forum to praise your little MS3?
Highway demon! LOL

mazdaspeed3God

Uh, that appears to be correct.

You don't have to trap 106 mph to beat the GS350 from roll at high speeds. Trap speed has no relation to how different vehicles perform at rolling speeds. You can find a car that traps 100 mph and beat the GS350 from roll. And I do not believe the OP's trap speed. The trap box could have been inaccurate, or had a very strong tail wind, like I said earlier.


If he can keep up with a 335i or C55 AMG he can give me a good run. Man that would require A LOT of mods for the TL to run that fast. I just don't see bolt-on mods such as intake and exhaust would boost that much. It's not realistic for N/A cars.

I said tail wind with good weather. It's not just cold weather. Sounds like you have no understand of DA.

phee

iTrader: (5)

i thought you were toning it down. now your back to the same old troll.

the fact that you are arguing with IHC about track times is so ass backwards that i can even begin to explain it.

you say that u only roll race so it leads me to believe you have never even been down a 1/4 so how the fuck would you know how trap speeds affect races? i bet you dont even know where the nearest track is from your house.

i have a friend with a MS3 and he dynoed 230 whp to the wheels 264 wtq in 4th gear.
15psi in 3rd and 4th

10 psi in 1st and 2nd.

what you havent mentioned is that turning off DSC makes the car reach full boost in 1,2,3,4 gears; so all this bullshit is exactly that. bullshit.

so either GTFO or provide a point that is relevant to the thread.

im willing to bet that you dont even have an MS3. either that or you get ridiculed so hard on the MS3 boards that you have to come troll acurazine.

you talking shit to IHC about is auto TL is so funny considering your car is STOCK.

mazdaspeed3God

For inexperienced car enthusiasts / drivers, yes it is.


It doesn't hold much I'm afraid.


Not with your car and setup. it's not enough to hang with a completely stock MS3 to 125 from roll either. The stock MS3 is faster than many people think. They have much better power to weight ratio, plus being turbo it just gets faster at high speeds. From dig you may likely beat me. From 20-80 probably very close. Rolling start at 20 mph you will get the advantage because I'm in the "POWER CUT ZONE". 50-100 I would be faster. Forget about trying to race to 125. I have beat the modified late model Mustang GT (stock one is 305 hp / 315 tq) at high speed roll. I walked him hard. The stock Mustang GT is a 104~ 105 mph trap car. Comparing trap speed is useless for roll racing different cars.


Long before you get to 5th gear I'm already faster. Your gears are too tall, even the 4th gear.


It's an idea start with 3rd gear as the power reduction isn't as bad as the first two. And the gears are so short I can get to 4th immediately. it doesn't take long time to get to the next gear like your car, or any other N/A Honda or Acura cars.


Of course you gain power by modding the engine, but it won't get you to go as fast at higher speeds. You need a lot more power to overcome the tall gears that you have. Buick GN that I hate cars drive isn't as much issue as it has so much of hp and tq. But for your mods, it's not enough to make it go considerably faster. Stop thinking like your car is super fast. It's not fast at all.


Z06 is a RWD, and has wider set of tires. You too, don't seem to know about how temperatures affect tire traction.


Go to mazdaspeed forum and ask for a race. Someone nearby you may be glad to run with you.


It's not just horsepower that determine final numbers. You have gear ratios as well as final drive ratios. I have the advantage in both! And on top of that, my car has better power to weight ratio. You can't keep up with a stock MS3. Forget about beating it.

phee

iTrader: (5)

i should also add that the ms3 has most of its available TQ so far high up in the powerband that the civic Si has a higher avg tq in its entire powerband..

anyone with half a lobe knows that peak power means nothing if your powerband looks like a capital N

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

Fraud? No
Equipment that isn't calibrated correctly? Possibly


Trap speed is the closest indicator you have to how you will perform in a roll race. It isn't close to 100% accurate but it gives some insight. Again a very strong tail wind isn't going to give you a 4-5MPH increase in your trap speed. Non-calibrated equipment would.

Intake mods and exhaust mods gave sonnick a 40WHP increase from a normal stock Accord 6MT. He has his dyno to prove it. A TL would be in a similar category with sonnicks mods.

I definately understand DA. I live in tucson, az where the DA sucks! Good weather is cold weather and also dry weather! You don't want a hot and humid day. More likely its the non- calibrated equipment. Alex will have to run again for us to really know for sure.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I have never seen a 05+ GT Auto or Manual Stang stock hit more than 103MPH. Most are in the 101-103 range even on dragtimes.com. None have hit over 103MPH on that site. 1-3rd gear are for the 1/4 mile. The GT's 4th gear sucks. There is a race on youtube where they pit the 2011 Mustang V6 against the 2010 GT stang and the V6 starts pulling up top once the GT hits 3rd gear.

mazdaspeed3God

back to the old troll? what are you talking about?? This is my first time. Maybe you've got mixed up with someone else.


You guessed incorrectly. I bought the MS3 because it provides best performance bang for buck, and I'm not a rice fan boy. I roll race only on certain occasions and that is because that's what this car excels at. It is not built for drag racing. And I have no desire to race at the drag strip because of it. My strength is through experience and research, lots of reading. Also being intelligent helps. Most members here don't seem to know much about racing and has no understanding of gearing which is unfortunate...


I have already covered this in my previous posts. Read up again. No, turning off DSC has no effect on boost on MS3. The only thing it disable is the traction. With VSC On, it cuts even more power to keep from spinning. With Honda or Acura you disable VSC you get full power out of them. There is difference.


It's more fun visiting other forums than my local mazda forum. It's about message deliverance. To teach them how MS3 works.


Automatic TL is a very slow car. It has one of the worst gearing in history, and it's a lame 5 speed transmission. The car is too heavy and torque-less. I was just stating the facts.

mazdaspeed3God

MS3 doesn't have capital N power band. it's pretty descent actually. Torque comes before you get to 3k rpm and it stay up the higher you go. And having torque at high rpm isn't needed as the horsepower takes over the job at high end. You don't seem to know about engine power band.

phee

iTrader: (5)

phee

iTrader: (5)

who woulda thunk that horespower replaces torque at the high end!

im sure that calculation of horespower has nothing to do with tq at all.
FYI HP is calculated from torque and RPM, with a "constant" of 5,252.

HP = (torque X RPM) / 5252

therefore HP is a multiplicative of RPM and TQ, meaning that TQ is very much important in the high end.

fml. im done arguing with you, you just showed all of acurazine that you have no knowledge of engines. next time you claim that someone has no engine knowledge you should do your research.

nova_G

Nice!


Oh? Not sure I quite understand what you're saying here...my argument was that this discussion about the MS3 being highly capable (according to you) in higher gears is dumb. Reason it's dumb is because it's dangerous (roll racing), not in the normal (especially if you need to be close to triple digit speeds), and only specific to your car (due to this boost cut which i'm still waiting for some links to back up your statement). Now as far as my lack of understanding according to you...what exactly don't I understand? That the MS3 is the Ferrari's/Lamborghini's long lost ugly cousin? Reading comprehension much? Or did the bias and fanboyism get to your heart/head?

Links. We need verified proof not just your "feel"

That's because Honda's have very linear hp and a flat torque curve...while turbos usually have to spool. For some reason I have this feeling that if you were to drive an E9x M3 you would still feel like your MS3 could pull...Perhaps you don't understand the basic difference between an N/A engine and a FI'd engine? Hit the books. BTW, i think what you mean by plugging in to the AP computer and analyze the HP/TQ figures is "data logging" .

I'm glad my car looks normal because sometimes cars that are out of the norm like your's for example, makes people want to throw up or smile back in your case, could be both LOL

BTW, still waiting on links to provided your claims.

Worthless discussion stay on topic.

Making yourself look worst by the minute. I'm the one who's trolling? How exactly did Alex's 1/4 run turn into your MS3 being a highway demon? Put two and two together (which may be hard for you) and you can clearly see who the troll is.


Re-read my post you're not getting it. I can tell comprehension is not your forte. I guess the "demon" has taken over your body

Ignorance. Get back to the basics and hit the books you clearly don't understand anything.

Just plain stupid. I'm sorry but i'm really not trying to "verbally attack" you but this post is just plain stupid. I'm almost sure 99% of forum members agree with me on this one.

Your reality. But for the rest of us normal car enthusiast, we all know how it really goes down.

BTW, please don't try to "educate" people when clearly you are so ignorant and arrogant that you don't see your own faults. Everyone here knows your as ignorant as they come so you are hardly "schooling" anyone. You are so into your belief that it has made you narrow minded.

mazdaspeed3God

It doesn't. The best indicator would be study your vehicle's weight and gearing as well as power delivery. Trap speed is useless for comparing different cars from roll application.


You seem to have trouble comprehending what I said earlier. I said in combination of tail wind and weather all in your favor. And tail wind alone can certainly affect more than 1 mph you are keep claiming. Also it changes depending on how strong the tail wind is. There are tail winds that travel 5 mph, or 40 mph.


If his is really putting out 40 additional hp then it may run close to stock MS3. I still find hard to believe those mods add that much power on N/A cars like on Accord. Hope that claim isn't an exaggeration.


DA is more to it than just that. You have barometric pressure as well as altitude that comes into play. it's not just simple dry Hot | Cold weather.

nova_G

He's probably taking notes on the forumla

phee

iTrader: (5)

Ms3
3.538:1
2.238:1
1.535:1
1.171:1
1.085:1
0.853:1
3.538:1

tl
3.933
2.478
1.700
1.250
0.975
0.770
4.008

Who has shorter gears?

Shorter
1st-TL
2nd-TL
3rd-MS3
4th-TL
5th-MS3
6th-MS3

looks like the tl would basically be ther faster car off the line all the way to the end of 4th which is about 127 mph and by then it will be too far ahead for an MS3 to play catch up.

even from a 3rd gear roll the tl will be in its powerband when the MS3 has to shift giving the tl about 1.5k more to gain on it and equal out the distance. (if the MS3 gains any distance due to its lower HP output and we all know that HP is the only factor at high rpm ranges)

mazdaspeed3God

It is not dumb. You are wanting to say it's dumb because you don't like hearing the fact that the MS3 excels at higher speeds due to its engineering on gearing and power.


Any type of racing is dangerous. What makes you think racing from dig is safe? The act of racing is bad to begin with. You need to try better than that, young one.


You don't seem to understand that how boost cut affects trap speed. And you don't seem to understand that turbo cars with close gearing requires power cut from the ECU to keep it from torque-steer. For N/A cars like yours, it's not an issue. You don't seem to understand short gearing vs tall gearing. Not all cars work the same way due to the complexity of gearing, power, and the drivetrain. ECU has to get mapped differently for different cars. And you jump into conclusions too easily.


Did you not read the rest of the paragraph there? Try to read thoroughly and completely before hitting that "Reply" button. Sounds like you are shaking. Relax.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

It does. Trap speed has to do with Vehicles weight and gearing as well as power. How is trapspeed useless?


I don't have any trouble comprehending. For example if you are at Sea Level and have a hot and humid day with no tail wind vs a cold and dry day with a 40MPH tail wind there isn't going to be a 4 or 5MPH difference in trapspeed.



Check out his dyno. He just posted it today on this website. 255whp Find it as hard to believe as you want.



Yes I know. Hence why I said I live in Tucson, AZ with a crappy DA. We are at 3075ft elevation. How do you think I got my 1/4 mile correction? I used the DA calculator and entered in my Elevation, Barametric pressure, current temp oh and don't forget reletive humidity.

http://www.dragtimes.com/da-density-...calculator.php

Here is the link in case you need a lesson

01clsstock

i wish i had that 5 minutes of my life back before i read this thread. On a side note mazdaspeed3god's english is pretty good. How long have you been in the country?

lusid

I couldn't scroll fast enough to get to the bottom of the page.... stop feeding the troll lol. GOOD LORD! I hate mazda's now.

nova_G

READING COMPREHENSION re read my post

At least road racing/drag racing is at a controlled environment and doesn't endanger by standers who choose not to be involved with any type of racing. I know I'm young but i feel pretty comfortable when I say my intelligence is far beyond you can comprehend in the car world. But thanks for pointing out my age (like its supposed to be a deciding factor on the argument)


Forget it i'm sure the mods will agree with me on the fact that we are trying to enlighten YOU but it's mentally impossible for you to understand.

Did you read? Still waiting on the LINKS my god. How old are you?

I hate cars

Some gems I learned from this thread...

A TL trapping 105mph is not believable but.....

A ms3 will smoke the tires in 3rd without imaginary power cut.

A ms3 will beat cars from a 40mph roll that absolutely humiliate it in the 1/4 and trap higher.

A ms3 pulls harder in 4th than it does in 1st.

Trap speeds are irrelevent for comparing how cars will do against one another in a roll race.

260 ms3 hp are greater than 340+ Ford or Mercedes hp.

The ms3 is the only car to dyno more in 4th than 3rd gear.



Ms3 guy, how many times have you raced at the track? You have so much to learn.

Sonnick

^^ Thank you for making me "Lol" @ work

Mazda I never claimed my Accord was super fast. All I said was that it would be right next to or creep on your stock MS3. So, by putting 2 and 2 together, it seems like YOU think the MS3 is 'super fast.'

juruki

iTrader: (2)

^^ its a highway monster
LOL

I hate cars

Yes, the ms3 engineers are the only ones that know how to match powerband to gears.
You don't understand how racing from 0mph is safer than racing from 80-150mph? So sad.


Point being, there is no boost cut whatsoever after second gear and I'm not so sure about that. Post up some literature stating there's some sort of power reduction in 3rd.

It doesn't matter if it's turbo hp or NA hp. It's still only 260hp.

Close gearing makes no difference in traction, only overall gearing and after you're past 1st gear it's irrelevent because you can't spin them anyway.


Classic "manual transmission". Don't think you're fooling those of us that have been around for a while.

mazdaspeed3God

You haven't talked anything technically. The only thing I see in your posts is filled with insults and trolling. You have do much doubts why don't you visit mazdaspeedforum and ask them around? You don't believe me, there are others to get you to understand.. It doesn't really bother me as i know the fact and don't care if you believe it. You are not my threat, sorry. Nice try though.


I already have. I am highly educated and experienced. You on the other hand is not. You are also very young too, age of 22. Listen, I'm not into playing with the trolls. this is not my area. If you keep trolling like this I will have to just ignore ya.



It's not stupid. This is very important discussion. Unfortunately many people don't know this.


It doesn't. You are just not wanting to hear the fact. You are not liking what I have to say.


Actually I'm the one with broad mind. Think bigger, more broad. The amount of experience is in question.

mazdaspeed3God

You have not read everything I have said. Do you have any idea what AP is? Sounds like you don't know it, hence you completely ignored that part of my answer. It's such losers that have so much doubts.. Sounds like you are the one needs reading.