JuamPs 69

It has been a while since my last post here folks.

Upgrades to my 08 Type S are made. The latest so far, Clutch Masters FX400 6 puck set up (Finally It works), Mugen, 2 stage TB bored with Intake manifold and heatshield gaskets matching. Unfortunately I have not being able to dyno my car.

Last numbers where at 294whp 262tq. But today I had the privilege of racing on a high speed roll on a MT 2011 Audi S4... 3 runs on a 3rd gear roll on...I wish it was done at 1st gear....

The s4 had from a view an aftermarket catback exhaust. This car is 333hp and 325tq stock...It knew it was gonna be a good race. Nothing to loose here.

To my surprise starting on a roll at 4000rpms 3rd...My car kept a half a vehicle in front, shifting to 4th gear 2 cars ahead. I was really impressed to see for 3 times the results confirmed over and over again.

Many things to compare from a full bolt on, no tune Acura Type S vs a 3.0 Supercharger 11 Audi S4 with exhaust. Edmund claims the Audi runs a 13.2@106mph the 1/4 mile...I believe its time for me to head out to the track and test after having my dyno result...

I was always on the battle to finnaly achieve the 300whp without tune or forced induction to my car. I am guessing that the TL is puuting down a good 303 whp...

To all of those Acura enthusiasts...The competition is becoming more real. It is a honor to have a 4 door sedan naturally aspirated kicking ass, out there to 60k vehicles....

libert69

iTrader: (7)

nice kill. Grab the JandR ecu and pick up an extra 25-30whp with all those mods. At this point it would be the ultimate compliment to your setup

rush

iTrader: (1)

Nice I love it when the germs try their best to loose

huystAr

iTrader: (3)

congrats on your win! and as libert said, go for the JandR ecu upgrade

Inaccurate

What was the weather temp outside? I learned the fun way (versus learning the hard way) that it is FUN to pick on turbo cars when it is extremely hot outside.

I beat an expensive Porsche. Technically, it was a died tie. But for an expensive Porsche to not be able to pull the slightest on a family car = a big Loser for the Porsche.

Factoids - It was 101* F outside. I don't know much about Porsche's. It was the type that has the huge ass-end with huge rear fenders and a fat rear tire. It was a 30-100 mph run.

I recently watched an episode of Top Gear. They tested a super expensive and super rare edition of some turbo supercar (I forget which). When they tested it, it sucked balls. They called the manufacturer to inquire about their test vehicle having low power. The manufacturer told them that they had to test it with the outside temperature below 60* F.

So Top Gear drove it to California (I think) where the temps were MUCH cooler. Then, the car became a beast and all were happy.

usmarinedelta

iTrader: (1)

^^^ Alot of people use Porsche's for track more than drag from what I know. I was driving behind one yesterday and realize how their car is flawed by having a motor mounted to the rear, I was thinking how is air going to flow through and cool the engine, all I saw were vents which would allow the hot air out but how would fresh air come and cool things down? Any who german cars ftl!

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Wow you have an 08 6mt Type S with nothing more than a aftermarket clutch and a TB and intake and you pulled a newer S4?? I dunno what a "mugen" is, but regardless thats pretty good.

I have nothing more than RV6 V3 jpipe on my 6mt Type S and she definately pulls pretty hard so I guess its not all that surprising. The 6mt's are quick!

James

NSXRguy

what is this jandr ecu???

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

good kill OP. i hate the B8. b5s4 ftw.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

http://ww.tl.acurazine.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=806456

JuamPs 69

It was last night around 900pm Miami, Florida.

Temperature was around 73 degrees farenheit so there is really no excuse.

I do have to admit that it was been my toughest race yet. Compared to some of the earlier version M3s or 335, G37, 370z, 350z or G35, Porsche Cayman S..That is the list of all the cars that I have beaten before with my old set up when i was putting down 294whp.

I know for sure that my car has surpassed the 300whp mark now with the latest addition of my my modified intake manifold and bored TB by Mugen.

To answer the question of beating an s4 with only those 2 mods is impossible. The s4 has lots of torque...This 2011 car is a 3.0L supercharged at 333hp and 325tq...So it did pulled hard...of course it had at least an aftermarket catback which it was loud as hell.

My list of mods are as follows:

Intake: AEM CAI, P2R tb and mani heatshiled gaskets p2r tb spacer, Mugen 2 stage Bored TB, Coolant bypass, ported and polished lower intake runners.

Exhaust: RV6 V2 pre cat deletes, ATLP j-pipe, ATLP race pipe, XLR8 resonated quad cat back exhaust.

Tranny: Slave Cylinder check valve removal, Clutch Masters FX400 with 6puck disc,.

Suspension: Eibach pro kit springs

Brakes: Stoptech slotted/crossdrilled rotors front and back, stop tech brake pads

Miscellaneous: XLR8 Torque Damper

I have learned that you must have a proper clutch set up...This is the key to all of this to really work and put the power down to the wheels. It is a FX400 with stock flywheel...but I requested a special disc for this set up...I can tell you right now from experience...Ceramic and Kevlar are a piece of shit.

My flywheel was brushed a little bit for the new application of the 6 puck disc.

Sonnick

Nice kill. I can't really say I would agree with it, but it could happen. Btw, I've seen some 'mag times' for that S4 and it ran 12.9 @108. Albeit AWD from a roll isn't exactly favorable, it could happen.

You need to get some track times. Seeing as you beat some of those cars, I'd expect you to be around the 13.5 area with traps as high as 106-107mph. I just can't see that happening. I could potentially see you trapping 103-104 though. A fellow TL-s member trapped 103 with CAI/Jpipe/PCDs, so with your additional mods I could definitely see another mph. Anything more than 104 would need the help of wheel/tire changes, which would increase the FD ratio, and result in shorter gearing. Go to the track!!

jdmsquad12

im loving it u know that these cars will do awsome power with just the rite accessories nice good job

JuamPs 69

Sonnick:

I agree with you that thinking that it wouldnt happened. I have seen the car on many youtube videos running stock anywhere between 13.5 and 13.2...Just like Edmund's put out at 13.2@106.1mph on their tests.

I agree with you that awd could kill the car on high end rolls like we did last night. Also take the fact that the car is about 300 pounds heavier stock than the Type S.

I do believe that i could have good trap speeds reading up there at that 106mph...It will be just a matter of time...I do have tires ready to run for the track as well...So we will see...I do think that i might not be at 13.2 more around 13.5 like you said for wheel hopping and not awd...If the mph is up there we could conclude power on my car based on trap speed in comparison to the whp read on the dynojet...

I forgot to put on my list of kills a Lexus IS350 with Borla Exhaust on a roll of 50mph as well...That is a very powerful machine as well...and it was no problem at all for the type S...

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree, it would be interesting to see a real world 1/4 time/trap. Its not the be all end all but Drag Times only shows 4 TL runs between 13.1 & 13.7ET/107/102MPH in thier top 20 & they are all supercharged.

It would be nice to see you guys post your timeslips on Drag times since there should be more then 3 cars in the 13's & you would automaticially be in the top 20.

vhtran

Congrats on your kill, however I am still skeptical about what you see in the other car. What I don't understand is why would one doing the other mods on the new Audi S4 w/o an ECU upgrade. I said that because of this http://www.hoppenmotorsport.com/Audi.S4.B8.Engine.htm

BTW, why is it that people always comparing whp vs cranked hp ?

Sonnick

Juam: I can see you trapping 103-104 like I said, any higher than that is just not feasible with your setup. If you had a 16" wheel setup and small tire, I'd definitely agree and say it's possible.

Hardly ANY all motor setup in a J powered car from the factory is tuned. I will say this time and time again, a tune is CRITICAL for our cars to run optimally. Midrange power does a LOT for straight line acceleration. After my run with the Si on Sunday, it made me realize it even more just how critical power under the curve is. He was right next to me in every gear, even 1st and 2nd, where I would've thought my 'torque' would've prevailed. It didn't. The midrange gain they get from Flashpro is just ridiculous. I guarantee we would see similar 20-25whp/tq gains throughout the midrange with around 8-10 peak. When compared to an untuned car, that's a tremendous difference. I'd say easily 2-3 cars in the 1/4 mile, which is significant.

Inaccurate

I agree. The N/A J-Engine is extremely sensitive to ignition timing. With my ghetto tuning via no knock sensor and relocated IAT sensor, I stay at the cutting edge of the ignition timing map. It did make a big difference to me. If you thought my car screamed before in my videos, well just bump that up a notch or two.

The PCV Delete and EGR Delete bumped my performance too. In spite of the "I Never Done It But I know All About It" crowd saying that it has no effect at wot, I feel that it did bump my performance up a small notch at wot. And, it bumped the performance a lot at light-to-mid throttle.

I feel that the J&R ECU has this to offer to the N/A crowd. It would require work but it would be worth it. A person would be very pleased with the J&R ECU once it was mapped to be at the cutting edge of the ignition timing. Plus, do the PCV Delete and EGR Delete and install new 3rd/4th Pressure Switches for the 5AT. This person would be one happy camper if my experiences extrapolate over to them.

My car totally freaks me out now after these changes. Whenever I am not scared zhitless by it, I am laughing my azz off by what my car just pulled-off. Sometimes it makes me happy to just drive the wife's RL.... not having to deal with the hyper-ness of my car.

rush

iTrader: (1)

Pls list mods & vid link pls

Inaccurate

VIDS
----------------------
PCD Video (click here)

Please note that this link below is in the forum's Racing subforum. Viewer discretion is advised. If you are upset by street racing, it is suggested that you do not view the link below.

The TL Diet Videos (click here)


MODS (J32A3 w/5AT)
----------------------
TL Diet (click here)
XLR8 j-pipe
RV6 precat delete
RV6 race pipe (3rd cat delete)
Custom insulated AEM CAI (click here)
Oversized CAI filter (click here)
UR Pulley undersize
Ultimate Cooling Mod (click here)
Outlaw Engineering Thermoblock Spacer (click here)
Throttle body coolant bypass (click here)
Innovative Motor Mounts
EGR Delete (click here)
PCV Delete (click here)
Racing ATF (click here)

phee

iTrader: (5)

and a few 100 lbs. of weight reduction

Dave_B

Sure would be nice for you to actually take the car to the strip to validate all your performance claims.

At the rate we're going with claimed kills, I fully expect bolt-on TL/TLS to be outrunning Z06s, Vipers, late model 911s, etc. by the end of the year. The J32/35 apparently is the LS series of V6 motors.

F23A4

Dave, try not to burst the bubble of the Racing & Competition world of Acurazine. Sometimes you just have to shake your head in peace.

Monte TLS,MAX

Great point, as that is exactly what I do now a days!

cokorote

iTrader: (1)

Where in Miami are you from? Did you race in Miami Homestead Speedway track? Or did you race illegal on the street?

Did you dyno your TL?

TLove It!

iTrader: (1)

BIG difference between the two. And it's crank hp

juruki

iTrader: (2)

Older version M3? Cool!
G35 and 350? Wow!
G37 and 370z? Really??
Porche Cayman S? STFU!

vhtran

The Cayman S dyno between 265-270whp stock and weight under 3100LBS

Sonnick

They also trap between 106-108, where a full bolt on TL-s should trap 103.x. A member here trapped 102.9 with I/PCD/Jpipe, and another over 103, so it's perfectly feasible. With a tune I'd expect in the upper 104s, possibly 105. Add a ported intake manifold, ported runners and a retune, and I'd say maybe it's possible to run with an older Cayman S.

But anything can happen on the street. At the track Sunday, there was an SRT8 300C running 14.0 @99.9. I trapped over 1mph faster than that. And it's an automatic, which trap speed should be fairly consistent. I always thought they trapped 104-105, so sometimes drivers really don't utilize the car's full potential.

JuamPs 69

Well many of you like to stir the pot here...All these races have been on a roll on...There is a big difference when its from a full stop not to mention the traction problems on the type s...

Miami...on 826 palmetto north...I live south of the airport....I will not spend time here to prove anything to you guys...I just wanted to share with the acura enthusiasts...Anyways....i have not dynoed yet with the new set up...last dyno about 6 months ago was 294whp/262tq....

Anybody in the Miami area please feel free to pm me to do a small get together or something...Bring some of those 370s, 350s, m3s and you will believe what im talking about.

vhtran

LOL no body is trying to stir your pot here. It is a little hard to believe a claim from a car that is un-tuned, no dyno, no track time that able to walk bigger boys.

Sonnick

Eh.

I think you should get dyno'd again and hit up the track. That would be the best way to prove your claims. Dyno numbers aren't everything, but since you've already made 294/262, it'd be nice to see what gains you made with the new mods.

Also, track numbers directly reflect dyno numbers. If you trap 101.x, we know you're not 'actually' making 300whp. If you trap 103-104, it's very possible given the weight of the TL-s. Do it!

Btw, I don't doubt you pulled a 370z if it were stock. Some of them are 'only' trapping 103-104 in the 1/4 in 6MT form.

TLove It!

iTrader: (1)

JuamPs 69, thanks for sharing. I'll say a few things here. First, coming from the Audi scene, it's nice to hear the win against the new S4, (I'm not a fan of these). Second, doesn't matter what anyone says about the outcome and it doesn't really matter what your car would trap at the strip, (well to an extent). The bottom line is, there are ALOT of variables when a quick race takes place on the street and we know the cars are close in HP. The main thing is that you know what happened and hopefully conditions were as safe as possible.
Last, like libert69 said definitely check in to the J&R ECU

winstrolvtec

^I agree, not so much having to do with this particular case but more generalized, there are a number of factors and variables why two cars may trap 2 or more mph apart even on a consistent basis and still have very similar hp to weight ratios, also performing equally from a roll. It's entirely possible for the consistently slower running car in both ET and trap to actually have a better hp to weight ratio and perform better from a roll. Unless one looks past the numbers, you won’t be able to establish this.

Trap speeds are a reflection of an entire run from crossing two points, everything from the start to the finish of a typical drag race. Roll races simply are not, so the numbers and outcome from one situation won't translate 100% to a very different situation. Traction setup, drivetrain tendencies, degree of staging, driver and cars' efficiency of balancing spin and hook up, etc, all play a huge role in the difference of numbers and also the race itself.

We know that the best ET's usually come at the expense of the worst traps and great trap speeds are usually a result of excess spinning, creating bad ET's. What if there was a way to create that spinning effect for better trap speeds without having to sacrifice the ET? There are some drivetrains and traction setups that are much better suited for very aggressive launching that creates that "spin up" effect but can also hook up almost immediately. FWD is not one of those drivetrains, unless the necessary mods are made, and driver plays a big role here as well, so those things may or may not be reflected in the numbers depending on how one looks at it but the real issue is people either don't know or nobody pays attention to that part of it.

Furthermore, I don't know if traps are a pure reflection of what a car dyno's, certainly not all of the time and more so with manuals than autos. Take the addition of high stall torque converters on autos for example, and perhaps that will also better explain what I'm saying above. In most cases, these additions make considerable improvements to ET's and traps as well but you did nothing to actually increase the hp to weight ratio. In fact, usually the dyno comes back lower because they rob a bit of power. So hp to weight is now actually less but ironically, times and traps still improve.

How and why this is the case will explain all these street or roll examples that don't translate to track examples and the reality is they are not supposed to. That’s not me saying street racing is not also flawed, it’s just that there is too much of a consistent discrepancy between the two forms and their outcomes to ignore or always simply write off as one being flawed or due to reaction time, etc, etc.

That's why you can't credit or discredit track or street any more or less than each other. Individually they both have flaws and variables but taking info from both helps tell the real story. That's why even when it comes to cars that trap 3 mph apart (and maybe more depending), I don't inconclusively say that one car is unquestionably faster or slower as far as roll races and similar type situations are concerned. It would be great if they evolved the way things are done and as an option, started to include the standardized measuring but of street starts (5 mph roll) instead and perhaps extend the tracks a little.

IMO, a car that is truly faster will have the better hp to weight ratio established from dyno's and their "effective" comparisons as well as the ability to consistently demonstrate that in real life situations with one of the most effective evaluations of that being a roll race, sometimes to higher speeds than drag strips account for. Naturally controlling and equalizing all the variables and factors as much as possible. To a degree and within a range, the car that consistently runs better times, is simply a car that runs better times until proven to actually be "faster" as just described above.

FastLS6speed

This makes me wanna run you soooo bad! Hmmmm, I wonder how you would do? Good kill btw! Anything can happen on the street....

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

Nice run JuamPs 69

The debate on what a TL 6mt can and can't do will go on forever....

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I guess anything can happen on the street, but I'm fairly sure the new S4 traps between 106-108+ from what I've read, which actually surprises me, considering its relatively modest power ratings for a car that weighs within a Thanksgiving turkey of two tons. If those traps are in fact accurate, I don't see how a bolted TL could pull two car lengths from 4k in third to the 3/4 shift unless the Audi driver spilled his double latte frappuccino on his lap.

OP, you should hit the track for sure and get some numbers.

BEAR-AvHistory

Lots of posts on Acurazine forums have attached.

In the case of all these kill claims matched against the reality of what is listed with time slips in the Acura section of Drag Times, I believe its reasonable to say, without time slips/dyno runs being posted its just so much internet chatter.

Considering how much money can be spent on a TL to get 10/15hp the $50/75 cost of a series of dyno runs or day at the track is just chump change. If guys are getting 338HP (15% friction loss) out of stock 286HP type S without supercharging then those guys posting time slips getting 320/325HP with supercharged TL’s must be totally clueless. 1.5 horsepower per cubic inch on a N/A street motor is a pretty big deal when cars like the 470hp Charger SRT8 only gets 1.2 & the 507hp E63 AMG gets 1.3.

I guess it can be done & major props to anyone who can do it but at that level a claim really needs to be backed up with hard data to be considered valid.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

^^Yeah, but you have to remember those are base TL 6MT's that are supercharged with bolt ons and making ~325 whp at the wheels. I mean that's over 100 over stock. It's not a huge stretch to believe that a fully bolted Type-S 6MT with induction porting can break 290 whp when they're ~250 bone stock.

rush

iTrader: (1)

Let me help u Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qczjj...e_gdata_player


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