pimpin-tl

RWD cars can usually make sharper turns than FWD cars.

seevemonka

I test drove both the 2007 acura tl type s and the 2007 infiniti g35 sport.The acura fwd layout isn't in the same league as the rwd layout of the infiniti.The 07 g35 is a big improvement over earlier models.If I was comparing 06 vs 06,the tl is the winner.07 vs 07,infiniti is the clear winner.The improvements to the interior alone are amazing.The chasis/suspension is very close to my 2006 bmw 330.For the money,the 2007 g35 is the best car out there right now.

kobi2002

One thing that gets me about some of the post is that you guy are saying how the g35 will blow the doors off the tl but never considered that the g35 is only 20 horses more and 12 pounds ot torque more than the tl. and looking at where the power peaks. Tl-s 286 @6000 and 256 lbs ft at 5000. G35 306 @ 6800 and 268@4800, which means it does not see the full 306 till past the tl-s 6000 @ 286. 12 pounds of torque is not going to blow the doors off any car. Most of you need to stop relying on the but dyno and wait till the numbers come out for the tl-s. torque curves will have to be looked at also, where is most of the torque.

I am not saying the tl-s will beat the g even though I already raced one . but if it dumps all its torque in the bottom and nothing up top then who will have its win???. Butt dynoes never work. I have been in cars that glue you to the seat in the lower rpm and that is it. nothing up top. you also have to consider the fact that rwd will loose more hp in the drivetrain than a fwd., agian I am not giving the tl-s the checkered flag because I have one but I ca tell you that the g from my own eyes is not night day faster than the tl-s. believe me its not. you would be surprised

pimpin-tl

Well to give you a idea. My 05 G35 dynoed on a dynojet 255 hp and 244 tq to the wheels. It was a 6mt. A TL or even a TL-S probably wouldn't touch that.

kobi2002

can you say that for sure without seeing the #'s on a tl?. Agian not saying it because I have a tl-s cause i've driven cars way faster than both.

kobi2002

Tell you what. Going to the dyno right now and I will post the sheets so at least people will know what the tl-s does. I will also take a pic on the dyno to confirm that I went and will post result tonight. I myself want to know what the #'s are to.

simont53

Hey kobi,
As a fellow type S owner I find it funny that there are so many on this board trying to shoot down the Type S without ANY experience of the car or hard facts,
I totally agree that they may well be suprised when facts come out, but honestly I really dont give a crap as we both know that the Type S is a well rounded package that I have had a blast with in the two weeks that I have owned it.
Cant wait to see some hard numbers...whatever they are!

Micah06

I agree. My decisions were similar. I chose the 06 TL because the dealers were dealing (32.5 for NAVI). I wanted the Type S, but they were going at list. So even buying the Acura would have been a 6k or so premium. I was very interested in the 07G35 and even the 07 IS350 (both for the HP difference, both for the exterior styling) but the Infiniti wasn't available yet and the Lex dealer didn't have any 07 IS's on the lot (I don't live in a large metro area). I think the TL is a great car. Regarding the quality it doesn't matter where it is made. Simply refer to Consumer Reports. Some of the best made cars in America (Camrys, Accords) are made in Kentucky and Ohio. I already feel funny about buying a foreign car (from Detroit originally), knowing its made in the USA makes me feel a little better. Just my

J32a2FTW!

Wow, a toss up for sure men....

The G is a little cheaper, and a little quicker. It depends on aestheic preferences IMHO.

.2 seconds on speed is negligable to me, still beats all the ricers and f body owners that rev.....

kobi2002

Having fun with mine too. Well rounded is not even the word

kobi2002

what model was that? because all dyno jets record a 18 to 20 percent drivetrain loss. those #'s look kind of high. and besides I came back from the dyno and my friend with his 6mt only recorded 224 to the wheels. Times that by 20% and that gives you a cool 268 hp which is in line for the motor that makes 268 at the crank. your horsepower always look low on a dyno jet because it see's only wheel horsepower and going through the ac, alt,pwr str pump, drive axles,ect your net will allways be in the ballpark of 18 to 20 percent

theslik1

Yeah, all those weak-sauce EVO MR's, STi's, SRT-4's, and LS1's.

kobi2002

and his was an06 with 9k miles. I'll post the dyno sheets tomorrow

simont53

cant wait for the numbers !!

kobi2002

just remember that any dyno jet drive train loss is 18 to 20 percent. SO you can somewhat figure out the final result by that calculation. i am figuring out the #'s before i post ( kinda want to know what I am talking about first)

baby_igor

That is because Warren Brown is a pathetic automotive writer. I'm waiting for Jim Mateja of the Chicago Tribune to weigh in.

mickey3c

Both TL-S and G35 are great cars. Having owned both I would say the improvements in the 07 G will sway a lot of buyers in that direction. The inerior was vastly improved. For those Mag racers the G 0-60 was 5.2 seconds, which is very impressive over the 5.9 in the previous year. I did not drive a TL-S but I can say that these cars are both creeping up to the 40K range with ease. The G listed out at 38,000 + Not sure how much the dealer wants to deal either. I do not mind 500 over invoice but when I tossed that out the dealer balked at it. I said well there are other products out there.

Keep in mind the cost of ownership as well. The service protectin packages they want to sell you can run into the thousands when you consider roadblock, extended warranties, service packages, and tire wheel insurance. They try to get you on the hook for another 4,000 or so for all this. Sure roll it into financing. I am a cash buyer so when they try to get that plus another 200 in sales tax wow...

The post that talked about torque, was correct. My Gs torque was more down low. How these cars are set up really makes a big difference. However the G now revs higher and some of you know the throttle by wire or drive my wire in the G anyways; tends to start closing the throttle as you reach the red line. Which means you cannot slam off the rev limiter like you could with manual throttles.

I am sure it will be interesting match up.

pimpin-tl

It's a 2005 G35 6mt Sedan. They all dyno near that. I have never seen a Z or G35 dyno as low as 224. My 04 Dynoed 234 hp and 234 tq.

The 05 has 298 hp.

pimpin-tl

Here is the dyno from the car. One was done in a lower gear so it showed different results. 1:1 is 5th gear on the G35. And it hits a speed limiter and can't rev all the way to redline on the better dyno. So we did one in 4th and came out with the other results.

avs007

It's just a matter of finding the right dealer. Don't be afraid to buy out of state. When I bought our TL, the local dealer wouldn't budge off MSRP, but I found a dealer about 2 hours away that offered a price closer to invoice, then I got the local dealer to match.

When I bought our G35, (which happened to sticker for around $39k), local dealer wouldn't budge off MSRP + $1400 for some bs underbody protection. I bought the car from a dealer half way across the country, because even with shipping, it was still thousands cheaper than the local dealer.

ttliang

HP...HP/////TQ...TQ...come on guys. these are not race cars. stop kidding around. get a package that will satisfy your day-to-day commute...not your ego. My TL dynoed 260+ WHP (mod-ed) and I am sure I could beat a lot more cars if I throw out all my other seats and navi to reduce weight. But driving a car w/o carpets, navi and radio doesn't give me the satisfaction, does it?

You simply don't need that many HPs unless you are just trying to road race at every traffic light. I am sure most people are NOT like that. people like that usually don't own the same car for very long anyway. we had a few good members here all sold their TLs not long after their supercharge installations. moved on to bigger HP things lol. These are not race cars. you don't want to drive race cars trust me!!! they got NO AC.

VFR

As a new owner, I find it odd the way you guys favor the G35 over TL on an ACURA site!!
Anyway, the wife needed a hotter car(traded in an Avalon). She really liked the styling of the G35 and went for weeks of multiple test drives back and forth.
A test on the Interstate made the decision as the G35 was notably noisier and my wife does a lot of highway driving. I personally would have waited for the 07 G and bought a base car..

The reasons my wife chose over an 06 G35

The TL is quieter and smoother
The interior is much nicer
The interior of the G is cramped
The $32.5K got NAV and more options
The White TL looks cooler(subjective)
The Acura dealer had fresh vehicles

For the most part I would have to agree with my wife that the HP differences are bragging rights though I would probably appreciate the torque of the G

SouthernBoy

Viable points, but I have to disagree with one of them.

"You simply don't need that many HPs unless you are just trying to road race at every traffic light". I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I would like as much power as I can get. All my life driving performance machines, I have heard the argument, "why do you need all of that power". Well it's not a question of need at all, but one of "want". We could just as easily ask, "why do you need all of those drinking glasses" or "why do you need all of those socks" or "why do you need all of those guns". It's not "need", it's "want".

Does this mean that I am going to play John-Force-at-the-drag-strip at every light? Heck no. I am very easy on my TL. But I like throttle response and power. It's really just that simple.

dampfnudel

Most of us can appreciate a great car, even if it doesn't have that Acura or Honda emblem. Unfortunately, you probably won't much TL love on most G35 boards (that may change when Acura introduces SH-AWD on the '09 TL, hopefully).

kobi2002

Sorry man the dude at the dyno mixed up the numbers when it was printed but yes it does do that if it is the 298hp g35, however the horesepower I quoted was for an 04 auto. Agian the formula works. take your car at 298 and minus the drivetrain loss of 15% for manual, what is you number? About 254. now on the auto the loss is around 20% and in 04 they where 280 right?. So the loss will now net you 224. on a manual it would be about 238 (15%) which is still in line with your 234. Numbers don't lie.

So what am I getting at for all those people who put down the tl-s.
Well I did have a 6 speed and found a seller to buy it from me because I had surgery on my knee years ago. since then I've been over compensating on the left and now having problems with the left. I have an integra 5 spd but it is not a daily driver so no biggie. So i lost about $1000 altogether and i made a buyer happy cause he did not want to wait for a NBP 6mt and wait to break it in.


Dyno results for the Tl-s is follows 239.95 hp and 201lbs tq. You guys in your mind are saying like Thats it? Well let me break it down for you so you understand and that the tl desevre's more than you think.

This is an automatic so the 20% loss has to come into play. But before we get into that lets look at the torque see why it is low and flat on the dynosheet. Back in 04-05 days I could rememer the torque steer issue. I had an 05 and felt it every time I went around a corner while flooring it. The wheel had a mind of it's own. Well when the 06 came out , honda said they would correct the torque steer problem which they did and many wondered how. i jumped into an 06 because the dealer destroyed my 05 and they had to give me a new one. i did notice that it did not pull as hard as the 05 but the torque steer was almost gone. Now i have the 07 tl-s and Honda did take care of the torque steer with the add ponies. How I asked and looking at the dyno and a prgram that displays what you car is doing on laptop through the obd port under the dash i found my answer.

WHen the car is at full throttle it is not at full throttle in the begining, say 1st ans 2nd gear after that it opens up to match the pedal. remember it is drive by wire so the ecu can do what ever it wants when you want to floor it. so looking at the dyno plots you can see that the torque curve is flat and stays flat even though the hp climbs. It is a good thing but also not a good thing. most cars peak out and then drop there torque in the later part of the powerband. but here it slightly climbs, pegs and basically says at or around 202. The drop at the end is when I got off the gas. So this car is underrated from factory and really does need rwd.

I know this car has potential beyond just bolt on's and is a little discourged that honda would not try to really shine. But in all i still love the car and just means the door is open for more power before your bolt on's, it just who will have the time to figure it out with reflashes or what ever.

Now for the horsepower thing. Honda claims that the car is 286 hp and 256 tq because of the SAE rating. what is the real hp? Take the 20% for auto from the 286, that leaves you with 228. That is not what I got. I got 239.95 which is 240 which is 80% of 300hp

here is my dyno sheet. I had to outline the torque because it did not show on my cheap scanner.
But 201 for the torque is lame and if there was a flash to unload the torque it would be around where the hp is. honda needs to wake up and make rwd an option for real





Here are some web sites that also on the line for the hp loss on the dyno

http://www.superstang.com/horsepower.htm

http://neptune.spacebears.com/opine/horsepwr.html

here are the pic's of the g35 and my type s on the dyno

pimpin-tl

Wow nice. Now if we had a ECU. I bet we would see a nice large jump in power with one.

kobi2002

sorry man about the #'s on the g35 last night. they mixed up the #'s with an 04 auto. But the 15 and 20 percent works.

pimpin-tl

No biggie man. It happens! But I am glad you are the first to get the car dynoed so we can see what they do. Now we just need a 6mt to hit it.

kobi2002

I know that the 6 mt will do better, they always do. kinda hate i got rid of my 6 mt tl-s for the auto, but oh well

kobi2002

my guess is it will be around 255 or around that ballpark.

simont53

I am confused you got rid of your 6mt TL-S for an auto??? when did that happen??

Will Y.

OK, I was wrong...

Nykor

Like a lot of you, I'm looking at the G as a solid match for the TL. Tonight I went and test drove both.

We stopped at the Infinity dealer first. They had a G35 Sport sitting out front, and it was available for a test drive.

I have always thought push button start was lame. After seeing it in person I'm singing a different tune. Just having the keys on your person allows you to open the doors and the trunk at the push of a button without ever having to touch the keys. A single tap on the start button gives you radio/lights etc. The second tap gives you a start. Needless to say I was impressed.

The interior is light years better than the 03-06. The instrument panel moves along with the tilt of the wheel which was nice. The interior seemed a bit cramped in odd places. Seat adjustment for example basically required you to have the door open as there was not enough room with it closed to operate the buttons. Information display buttons were high up on the dash.

Navigation options were not easy to follow. I never did find the TPMS screen. The navigation in general felt clumsy. Having to pull into a gas station to "cancel" my current route irked me. If I were headed down the interstate I would be downright upset. I got the impression earlier in the thread that there was a hack for this. Seems like a silly thing to have to do. The nav did have a few cool features though. One of which was the distance to next point meter. It went from full to empty depending on how close you were, and measured distance in feet.

Backup camera was very impressive. Green-yellow-red measures for distance. It also had a projection box to show you were the arse end of the car would wind up given the current turn of the wheel.

Studio on wheels was also very impressive. Your basic FM station sounds better than DVD. It's one of those you have to hear it to believe it things.

Compact flash drive was very cool. As was the in dash hard drive.

Cabin noise was fairly high. Going down the interstate it was maybe a little louder than I would like.

Now to the good stuff. I opened it up on an entrance ramp, and was blown away by the response. I heard a muffled "jesus" issue from the back seat as the saleseman sat up straight. I also had to ask my girlfriend to close her mouth, and release the death grip on my right arm. I've never had a moving violation, but I suspect I'd be in trouble were I the owner of a G.

The exhaust note was a thing of beauty. The power curve was like nothing I've experienced in a car before. It was more like my motorcycle.

At one point we went over a painted spot in the road, and the back tires broke loose. Traction control was all over me. Things really lurched. Not so impressed with this one. It was like the horsepower nanny was too aggressive or something.

The adaptive front lighting was really neat as well. 5 mile test drive. The trip computer indicated that we had used over a gallon. Yikes.


Next stop was the Acura dealership. They had a type S parked out front, and were more than happy to tear the plastic covers off the seats for a test drive. The salesman that helped us spoke with a thick Russion accent, but was a real rockstar all around. This guy was an absolute wealth of general car knowledge, and knew the S like the back of his hand.

The Acura nav system is far beyond what the G had. It was larger, better positioned, and the menu options just made sense. The autocomplete for whatever you are typing in was very very nice. I won't beat a dead horse.

The interior of the S was better than the G. The G has come a long ways, but the S is simply better. I'm not a super fan of the red lighting, but everything else was just better IMO.

Backup camera was not as clear as the G, and had none of the bells and whistles. Instead it shows the bumper to give you a spatial frame of reference. The G wins in that category hands down.

As we were leaving the parking lot, it was very clear that the S does not have the same turning radius.

Both of the cars I drove were automatics with the paddle shifters. Switching from auto to manual in the G you could hear a clunk as something moved. If there wasn't a light telling me the S had switched, I don't think I would have known. The salesman went so far as to rapid fire change them as we went down the interstate.

Acura mentioned the "blipping" with the paddle shifters. It was really cool in person. I don't think I'm in the market for an automatic, but I was impressed all around with the S in this area.

The cabin noise was almost nil. The noise reduction really does work. Maybe too well. I wasn't too impressed with the exhaust note. I was however very impressed with how the noise reduction handled outside noise. Rolling down the window turned up the radio to compensate. Driving on the interstate was blissfully quiet.

I was not impressed with the sound quality in the S. FM sounded scratchy. XM sounded ok. If you paired G sound quality with Acura cabin noise you would get the best of both worlds.

Acceleration was good, but it felt nothing like the G. I don't know how the numbers play out, but the G just felt faster at everything. The Acura felt smoother at everything. Hard to put into words, but they just seem to be different beasts in this category.

I went out of my way to find a paint spot to spin out on. I know traction control kicked in because the light came on, but it was so smooth I don't think anyone would have noticed.

Auto dimming side mirrors were a big plus.

Trip computer claimed we came out at 19 mpg on the test drive. I didn't really drive the S any differently from the G.


Unfortunately after it's all said and done I'm less sure on which is the better car. They both shine in different area's. Neither dealership had manuals on hand. Maybe that will change my mind.

avs007

Unless Infiniti changed the ergonomics of the Navi, you just have to hit the cancel button, to cancel your route. On our TL, you actually have to go into the menu to cancel the route. That was irritating, because you have to take your eyes off the road to do it. On our G35, you just hit the big cancel button, and you're done.

Heh heh, when I test drove the G, the salesman took me to an empty parking lot, and told me to try to lose control of the car. My wife, instead of holding me with a death grip, kept yelling at me that she wanted to drive

Depends on frame of reference I guess. I was driving my G35 up the hill near my house. There were some blue-haired drivers in front of me going slow, so I nailed the gas to pass them. The ground was a little wet, so a few moments after I downshifted, I broke the back end loose, and felt the wrath of the stability control. However, just the other day, I was driving the TL through there, and the same circumstances happened. I felt the wrath of the TL's stability control too. I'm not sure which was worse, as they were both disconcerting in different ways. The G35's tail started swaying. But the TL's wheel popped out of my hand.

I hope it's implemented better than on my phone, because it drives me crazy. I can spell out the whole word correctly but it sometimes automatically chooses a different word. Even when I repeatedly enter in every letter of the word I want.

I could've told you that. I can make a U-turn with my G on a two lane road. Done it many times thanks to my wife's lame directions Our TL, I don't even bother trying, I'll just pull into some random driveway.

Does the manumatic finally allow you to hold all gears till redline? That always annoyed me that our 05' TL doesn't do that.

I think I already pressed my luck with the wife when I traded in our 03' TL for an 05'. I wonder what she'll say if I try to trade our 05 for an 07 Type-S

avs007

Please If it was 300, they would've claimed 300. Infiniti/Lexus are both rated 306 with the same SAE tests. Aren't you the one that argued previously that FWD has less parisitic losses, because you don't have a long drive shaft or non-integrated differential?

240 out of 286 equates to about a 16-17% loss, which seams perfectly normal to me.

winstrolvtec

With the new SAE ratings, it's more like 15% auto and 10% manual in the percentage of drivetrain loss. 286hp is still only 286hp, but on a fwd setup you can compare it to a rwd 300hp, in most cases.

theslik1

Now go drive a 335i, which has approximately one (1) metric German buttload of torque. Your GF is guaranteed to slap the living outta you. I thought my wife was going to choke me to death from the back seat during our test drive.

I need to schedule a G35 drive soon!

This was a common complaint with the 1st generation G.

theslik1

Sorry, but that is some weak sauce, my friend. You know a thread is getting downright silly when someone trots out anally computed driveline loss guesstimates to try to level the playing field. That might work when comparing with Infiniti (still very dubious), but it won't wash against BMW's conservative ratings.

I know it sucks, but the competition brought some serious ponies to the table. The TL-S is only a notch behind, but it is behind nonetheless. Hopefully there won't have to be any excuses made for the 4th gen.

realfresh

i'm pretty sure that the coupe will stay unchanged until the 08 model year

tlbkcal

well obviously as an engineer, you've been doing too much engineering and don't realize that 80% of the time, sales/marketing/finance has veto power over something that will drive up the cost, lower profit margins, etc. i'm an engineer too, and if only engineers had our ways, no one would be able to afford cars because they would all be filled with all the latest gadgets. So as an engineer, you'd choose memory mirrors over 306 hp?