F23A4

No offense taken. Between my 99 Accord and my 02 Maxima, the Accord owns the Max with regard to ergonomics. That said, I chose the Max over the 02 Alti because the Alti's interior was HORRIFIC!!! (The new 05 Alti has a MUCH nicer interior but still not @ Honda levels yet; good progress nonetheless.)

I drove the 04 Pathfinder (non-Armada) 2 months ago and even with the heavy discounts/incentives, I didnt like the car at call. The interior is straight out of the 90s. (IMO, it was the only VQ35DE powered Nissan that I've driven where it actually felt underpowered. The Murano puts it to shame.)

Enforcer

[my Opinion]
it's funny how this thread is being pulled away from its original title... but it's a very good thread.. lots of honest opinion, which I agree with most of them...
no car is perfect, and in each car you will see something to satisfy your need... just like girls... that's why i stay single and see more than one girl, because each will meet only some of my needs
I love my TL in a different way than I love my Altima... but I love them both... now, if I had to sell one, of course I'd sell the altima, just because I've owned it more than 2 years!

so far I'm getting better gas milage with the altima than the TL, but everyone is telling me that I'll get much better after break-in period.
so far my altima feels and IS faster than my TL, but again everyone is telling me that I'll get much better after break-in period.
so far I think the exterior of my Altima looks better than my TL, but that's for now.. things will change after tint, body kit, and some 14" rotors to fill up the wheels.
The only thing that won't change is the interior.... TL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Altima (no doubt)
[/My Opinion]

SouthernBoy

To ONAGER;

The Chevy small block has been around since 1955. And the simple reason it's still around is that the basic design is sound and works.

I have to respectfully disagree with your statement, "displacement means NOTHING in todays fuel efficency wars" as it may relate to power output. The old adage, there's no replacement for displacement still holds true today. For example, if you took our small V6 engines (196 cubic inches) and bored and stroked them to, let's say 240 cubic inches, then made the necessary mods to match the increased displacement, you would definitely be putting out more than 270 HP and 238 lb/ft of torque. Man wouldn't that be a nice thing?

As for emissions, my modded 1988 Mustang LX 302 CID was four times cleaner than my wife's 1991 Honda Accord LX (we compared emissions reports once). I would mostly attribute this to the EEC-IV Ford computer which at the time, was probably the best in the industry.

But you make some good points. It really is a testament to modern technology that a Z06 Corvette can manage 27 MPG while delivering 405 HP and 400 lb/ft of torque. And a 2004 TL can road test a 0-60 in 5.6 seconds and a quarter mile in 14.3 seconds at 99 MPH.

SouthernBoy

To Enforcer;

No, I traded my Altima SE for the TL. Four vehicles may have been a bit much for me. Tomb posted his dyno results earlier this year as I remember.

Man I didn't know you had gone with the TL. How come? I mean it IS a beautiful car and loaded with neat things, bu hardly a modable gearhead toy at this time.

ONAGER

but read exactly what i said southern boy... in the fuel efficency wars. i said nothing of power because in that relm ferrari (stock) kicks almost any cars ass.... previous posts stated that because the altima/maxima have more displacement that why they are less efficent (aka mpg) i was just providing the example as to why there statement was incorrect. and my stmt still stands that in todays world, displacement doesnt bare as heavily on fuel economy especially with with displacement on demand systems (even honda is now starting to take this route). and i understand about displacment increases almost all engines will experiance this over time (saves engineering costs) our engine archetecture started as a 3.0 as did the VQ. and as weve seen both of these engines have grown, up to 3.5 for honda, and 4.0 for the VQ (as equiped in the 05 pathfinder)

TL260power

gotta love that vtec roar .....................

Scott GN231

On a drag strip yes, on a dyno I do not believe this is true.

-S.

F23A4

EECIV definitely got much props back in the day.

ONAGER

either way less power is being put down, as it takes power to rotate those heavy wheels. thats why rotational weight is so important. also the added weight is bad for ride and handling. heavier wheels have to be controlled by the springs and the shocks, it is known as the sprung weight (or the weight of the entire wheel, brake, axle, suspension. basically anything the suspension has to move back into position after it hits a bump) weight here is bad.

TL260power

do anothere test once it breaks in then you should get better numbers.. Then get CAI and headers once they come out with some. CAI i know are out for the new TLs

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Incorrect. The reason why it hurts on a drag strip is because there is more unsprung weight. The reason why this is bad is because it takes more force to turn the wheels, thus making less horsepower where it counts most; the wheels.

The same is most definitely true on a dyno.

Aquineas

Just as an FYI, our TLs essentially already have headers integrated into the engine block.

Xpditor

I disagree. Unsprung weight is everything below the springs: wheels, tires, axles, suspension. It doesn't move on the springs but follows the road. The engine, tranny, and car body are "sprung" and move up and down on the springs.

XP

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

You are correct. Wheels are unsprung weight, not sprung weight ONAGER was mistaken.

ONAGER

i appoligize that i mispoke on the proper name, the concept of what i was speaking was correct however. weight in any case is bad, weight at the wheel assembly is especially bad for performance, again im sorry

JLim

enforcer, have you dyno-ed the TL again and got better results?

apwalsh

Yeah, but I'm sure most people would love to replace them with something better. At some point, and probably at great expense, somebody will.

I'm not sure if you are saying that it's not required because we already have it, or if you are stating the difficulty of changing the headers.

E-luzion

Guys that cant happen.... there is no way a 270 hp car can lose more than 70 hp... its impossible... the car was not dynoed properly

My Lightning stock at the crank was 380.. on the dyno cold, at the wheels was about 355.

1 dyno place in MA totally screwed up the dyno... every car is different....I know that you dont dyno an Acura the same way you would a Lightning.

GoBig

My 6MT dynoed in at almost 231hp when it only had 1500 or so miles on it. Something doesn't seem right.