hues10

First off, I do not own an RLX SH, or any RLX for that matter. I am interested though. I do own a 2011 RDX FWD, so I somewhat know the technology the RLX has, and I don't mind it since there is some familiarity with the round dial and antiquated navigation and such. So if you were going to spend $50 to $60k for a sedan, why the RLX versus the Tesla? If range anxiety was no problem for normal commutes and such. I understand, taking it from Florida to California on a cross-country trip would be somewhat a factor, but I am talking normal day to day, weekend driving of putting 200 to 350 miles a week. I drove a Model S over the weekend, and was thoroughly impressed with how it drove like a car, but accelerated like a bat out of ....... Does the RLX accelerate like that? I was not as impressed with the interior of the Tesla. Guess it would take getting used to. Did anyone cross shop these vehicles and why did you choose the RLX. Thanks.

kurtatx

I would cross shop other cars. $60k can still get you a lot of car.

That being said, unless you really want an EV, I would stay away from tesla. It's becoming more and more clear they are poorly built and are not as solid as a $60k car should be.

spoiler900

Exactly what we thought 1 year ago. My dad just replaced his 09 TL with a 2018 RLX Sport Hybrid Advance. When the model 3 first came out we rented one on Turo and he loved it, and very much considered going on the waiting list. Then, he realized at the age of 60 he wanted Luxury, and that is the RLX, not a tesla. We loved the Tesla and the tech, but it wasn't that nice of a car quality wise. The seats were not that comfortable, radio not as nice, fit and finish felt like a civic, etc. He wanted the drive of his TL in a nice loaded luxury sedan, and that is why he bought the RLX.

So I guess it depends on you. I am 27, work an Acura dealership, and I drive a TLX SH-AWD Advance. I love it. I personally would buy a model 3 as I think its cool. Buts not luxury and comfort, like my dad preferred. So I guess it depends what your looking for.... luxury, or a tech gadget with wheels.

hues10

Thanks Spoiler. That was my initial feeling when I test drove the Model S. It had immense power, but the inside seemed Star Trekish. I would imagine the Model 3 even more so. Can't guage comfort of the seats from a 10 minute test drive. I live in Florida, so a number of Tesla charging and one Service station is in town. However, go outside a major city, and it becomes sparse. I am closer to your father's age, so having the latest gadget is not as important as having something different that is fun to drive and reliable of course. The new ones depreciate so fast though, I just need to wait for a nicely driven CPO from 2018 and up it seems.

George Knighton

When somebody who has owned Lexus, Toyota, Honda and Acura sits in a Tesla, he might be astonished at the general lack of fit and finish, and lack of materials quality.

Tesla's a technology company more than it is an automotive company or a consumer services company, unfortunately.

There are really some things that will astonish you. You won't be able to understand why a particular material was used considering the price point. You won't be able to understand why something was put together the way it was, why a seat doesn't work, why the door handle shakes when it moves, why a panel can be so far off and it still leave the factory, why you can spend so much money on a car that does not have a sunroof shade...it will be a long list.

I get it that Tesla's catching on, but to me it is still in the geek stage. You will "get it" or you won't.

Tesla needs to team up with a good automobile company like Lexus, or a good consumer services company like Apple before they get it totally right.

And if you ask me, their finances right now are all smoke and mirrors.

I hope they make it, but I have my doubts.

Oh, and anybody who complains about the KC2 suspension needs to take a ride on a New England or New York winter road in one of those new Model 3's.

That'll make you think your KC2 suspension is a perfect, pillowy soft. :-)

JonFo

Interesting thread, as I just had a test drive in my neighbors model S. He let me drive it on winding mountain roads I'm very familiar with and I was very favorably impressed with the ride and handling. Acceleration is amazing (his is a 90D, so AWD). But I also was less than impressed with the interior. I'm a 61-year-old geek so the big screen and a lot of the geek-chic vibe are up my alley, but I like the extra attention to detail George mentions in his post above that vendors like Lexus and Acura have.
So for me, the ideal would be a nicely priced 2018 or later CPO SH. That, or a new Acura EV sedan.

On my shortlist for a pure EV: the Jaguar iPace. But as a vendor, Jag makes me nervous, I've come to love the rock-solid reliability of my Acura.

Oh, one more reason from preferring an RLX-SH, it's the perfect compliment to the Acura NSX I hope occupies one of the other car bays in my garage

MuGen7Modulo

Well said Ser George!
I felt the same when I sat in a Model S.

Curious to see what Audi will do for starters as far units sold. Volvo will enter the electric market heavily too.


And it's very possible that we'll see the next production ready RLX in August at Pebble Beach.

kurtatx

the tech people will take the major automakers to the cleaners for shorter range but true car reviewers recognize the electric Audi is an Audi and the electric Jaguar is a Jaguar. The Tesla in real life is something less

George Knighton

The next generation Sport Hybrid is something I've very interested in. I keep getting calls from dealers to get a new KC2 at substantial discounts but I just can't do it. Waiting to see the next generation.

ceb

Tesla has amazing acceleration and handling isn't bad. The big screen, Google maps, OTA updates and the tech in general is impressive.

The self driving not so much. Fit and finish was better in a Trabant or a Saturn. Ease of entry/exit is awful. Comfort is so-so. Visibility is so-so. Range is OK for an EV but not good enough (IMO) for a long range cruiser - which is what this segment calls for.

To get the Tesla technology into a car that meets the same standards, then you'd be looking at Bentley/Rolls pricing.

George Knighton

The Model 3's standard suspension is not well suited to all situations, according to Alex Dykes (Alex on Autos). I've only driven the air suspended model, but the video he showed of driving on some roads bears out what he says.

Let's see if we can get it done at Honda/Acura pricing. :-)

Very much looking forward to the first Acura all-electric.

ceb

Me no so much yet because the infrastructure isn't there yet and the more EVs are on the road tomorrow, the worse it is.

A couple of times a year I drive from NoVA to Santa Fe and about an equal number to C'Springs - so about 4 round trips at 1900 miles.

Gas engine - let's say one drives 11 hours a day with an average speed of 60mph, so 660 miles a day. That's one fill up along the way, with a couple of "coffee breaks" (empty/refill) and a lunch break. Leave at 7am and stop at 10pm (1 hour lunch and four 15 minute rest stops).

EV - Drive 3 hours, charge for an hour (4), drive another 3, charge another hour (8), drive the final 3 and you've driven 540 or 575 miles. That's assuming that you didn't have to stop in between charging stops AND that chargers are available everywhere along the route.

I don't think I saw any charging stations on those 20,000 miles through Kansas on I-70 and, quite frankly, EVs cannot be successful until every parking spot at every hotel, parking lot, restaurant, shopping center, grocery store (basically every where you park) has a supercharger station (or the non-Tesla equivalent). The charging cables must be standardized as must the voltage draws.

Until then we're stuck with gas although the Chevy Volt model works (electric with gas backup).

Then there are some regulatory issues. In my building garage for example, they cannot legally supply charging as that would be a supplement to income and the only charging stations are for the motor pool Volts. We actually had someone terminated for hooking their Volt up to the charging station.

Comfy

Agree with the general level of fit and finish with Tesla cars, but EV tech is an evolving technology and Tesla is far ahead in the game than anyone else. It is catching on fast and pretty soon all automakers will be (are) scrambling to launch their own botched up electric versions and that’s when (increasingly now...??) Tesla will look like a leader. The Audi E tron looks good on photos and apparently has good interior too. But it is nowhere near Tesla in electric technology. It has poor reliability and less range (with no Superchargers). The jaguar e pace is more of same story. Mercedes is planning them to start at $100-200k.

With the newer batteries 500 mile range is becoming normal (Not sure many would drive 6 hours or more without stopping).
When you say Tesla is not value for money, you’ve got to factor in their inherent advantages in sales methodology. There are no middleman dealerships which add about 15-20% cost to all cars (of course the dealerships aren’t there for charity). Most of the cost associated with BEV is the battery itself and Tesla has its own factory for that. None other car maker has this capability at present so forget about how they can offer this technology to consumers for a profit.
Tesla is still improving consistently here.
I believe with the next generation S and X they would significantly improve the interiors and can be an even match to luxury vehicles.
I’ll say this though. In the not so distant future if Tesla remains viable as an automaker, the other car companies will feel the heat and will have to revert back to their core competencies.
The crunch will be more so on the higher priced trim brands / high powered models of mainstream cars ( and Acura looks like will be caught right in the middle). The true luxury cars will simply raise the price and remain competitive due to their other virtues.

hondamore

Just as the fuel economy of ICE vehicles can vary widely base upon driving styles etc., the range of electric vehicles can vary widely and become considerably shortened with aggressive driving or cold weather (with the cabin heater draining the battery substantially). While the heavy footed driver of an ICE vehicle can easily pull into a gas station for a 5 minute fill-up, the EV driver who has a little fun doing some hard acceleration runs and then discovers that their range has been greatly diminished has to plug in for potentially several hours before continuing on. This is inconsequential for a short, daily commute, but longer drives on a cold day could involve some pre-planning or some anxious moments. The current battery technology seems to limit EV's to being perfect for a daily commute of reasonable distance BUT necessitates a 2nd vehicle for longer road trips or cold weather excursions.

The previous posters are correct that EV's seem to be the technology of the future and they are definitely improving, but for my personal situation, a hybrid ICE/EV is still the vehicle of choice - for now.

pcloadletter

Test drove a p85d, like it, but couldn't daily a $110k ecar. $40k for a cybertruck, I might be able to compromise with the lack of charging stations.

moose66

Concerned about charging stations locally or during travel? They seem to be popping up all over the place where I live. Not sure that would ever steer me to a totally plug in though. A station at home, and a few scattered around my weekend jaunts would be suffice for me.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Let me throw this out at you. If you look at a loaded up Volvo S90 Plug In Hybrid with 400hp/472ft/lbs tq with all of the main goodies added in, the MSRP is about $75,000 before discounts. You can probably negotiate about 7% off which would get you to $69,750 and then there are federal and state tax credits which equal (depending on your state) $6,000 so the net price of this choice is $63,750 plus tax (calculated off of the negotiated sales price). That is a hell of a choice in comparison to the RLX Sport Hybrid for just a little more out of pocket. A client of mine has one and his lifetime mpg for the car is 43mpg. It has a huge back seat and loads of tech far surpassing the Acura offering. I'm not a salesman for Volvo, just about to be a new customer and when you compare the RLX-SH to the S90 Plug In Hybrid, IMHO Volvo wins that round. Acura has to step up because the competition is ahead of them in many areas. The same comparison for the XC90T8 relative to the MDX Sport Hybrid stands but the Volvo is about $12,000-14,000 more than the MDX variant, all else being equal. Still a bargain to me when comparing the vehicles. A $12,000-14,000 net difference over the life of a car is a rounding error.

JonFo

Back at you with the much more practical V90 Hybrid (I love wagons) and for a bit less than $70, so out the door price in the high 50's. Here's how mine priced out:



Volvo V60 Hybrid wagon

So exclusive you have to custom-order these, as they are not stocked.

Comfy

Legacy premium automakers will have a hard time entering the electric vehicle market at least in US due to the overwhelming lead that Tesla has ramped up in that technology.

Recent repot showed MB has postponed its electric crossover plans in US since Jaguar I pace and Audi etron flopped and Taycan looks a non starter.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lat...ic%3f_amp=trueMercedes-Benz is putting off the U.S. debut of its first electric vehicle by a year in the latest sign of just how difficult a time automakers are having replicating Tesla Inc.’s success.

Daimler AG’s luxury brand will start sales of the EQC crossover in 2021 rather than early next year. The German carmaker said in an emailed statement that it’s made the strategic decision to first support growing demand for the model in Europe, where deliveries began earlier this year.

The world’s top seller of premium autos has touted the EQC and the series of battery-powered models it has planned under the EQ sub-brand as an answer both to Tesla and its traditional rivals. But the initial electric vehicles Jaguar and Audi introduced in the U.S. market this year have underwhelmed on the sales charts, failing to keep up even with Tesla’s years-old Model S and X.

Daimler has at least 10 purely battery-powered cars planned through 2022 to help meet tougher emissions rules around the globe. But while regulatory pressure is picking up, U.S. demand has been tepid for models other than Tesla’s lower-priced Model 3. Consumers continue to harbor concerns about limited driving range, long charging times and high sticker prices.

Jaguar has sold 2,418 I-Pace SUVs in the U.S. this year through November, while Audi has delivered 4,623 E-Tron crossovers, according to InsideEVs. By contrast, the website estimates that Tesla has sold about 111,650 Model 3 sedans.

Luxury-car makers’ biggest retailers are divided over the outlook for electric cars in the U.S. In February, the president of Sonic Automotive Inc., the fifth-largest U.S. dealership group in the country, wondered aloud on an earnings call whether Tesla had built a cult following for its cars and said the brand needed to be taken seriously by BMW and others.

But in October, Roger Penske, chief executive of Penske Automotive Group Inc., said the I-Pace hasn’t sold as expected and that consumers have been canceling orders for the E-Tron.

“They’re expensive, and everyone has range anxiety, and to me, what’s going to be the residual value at the end?” Penske said during an earnings call. “The growth is going to be slow.”

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I found a Volvo Forum and read that lots of XC90T8 owners have regularly seen 900-1,300 miles (or more) on an average tank of gas and that was with the 13 gal tank in the 2016 to 2019 model years. The 2020 model year has an 18.5 gal tank so that would theoretically translate to 1,500 miles to a tank of gas? Sounds nuts if that is true. That works out to 70-90mpg. My expectation is for nearly 100% of my local travels to be in total EV driving and only using the ICE engine in hybrid mode when the pure EV driving is expended. So for a 25-100 mile plus journey, I am told the way to maximize the mpg is consume the EV driving first, then use the hybrid mode and regenerative aspect to recharge the battery, then use the pure EV mode again. So you essentially use the gas engine to charge the battery while driving then switch back to the EV mode while making your journey. The first 25 miles of any journey will be in EV mode for 2020 and I can charge up at my destination. Apparently you can travel up to 78 mph in EV mode. My assumption is if this technique is deployed that should translate to 40-50 mpg for trips over 25 miles and using zero gas in all local driving. I'm excited to see what I can produce when I take delivery of the car in February. It isn't about the saving of gas costs that is attractive to me. I admit it that I am a mpg geek. However knowing that it has 400hp on tap when you want it and that will be sumptuously luxurious too with a killer sound system is a huge plus. We will see when it comes in.

Comfy

New meaning for the term "Range Anxiety". What other automakers and owners of "non-Tesla" cars experience when they compare their cars to an equivalent Tesla.

Midnight Mystery

Teslas just seem like such a fad or a "one night stand" among car buyer's who want people to "know it" sort of thing. It may be fast, but it's no J35 RLX. It's more of an appliance, or a computer on wheels...