CFoote

Hi Everyone,

The RLX Hybrid showed up at my local dealer today. Unfortunately I was at work and couldn't escape to take a peek, but I did receive a picture of it via txt message. It is silver in color with black interior. Apparently they were told that there are only 1000 being built this year, this dealer is getting 2.

Talk about a disappointment with regards to volume. Guess I'll sit it out until production ramps up.

Chris

hondamore

Either Acura is trying to grow demand with the low volume production run in year one OR some clever sales personnel have concocted the rumor of a low volume production run and it is spreading through the Acura sales community with visions of bloated retail prices dancing in their heads????? That said, if the majority of the units don't show up in dealerships until late spring/early summer, then the 2015's will be out in just a few months later, so a small run of 2014's is not unreasonable???
I will also be sitting out until production ramps up.

CFoote

I believe the Hybrid, much like the RLX last year, will come out early as a 2015.

George Knighton

It's not a rumor...the capacity does not exist.

The people who describe how the RLX SH-AWD is put together might just as well be describing how the 1997 ITR was put together, moving shells around from this place and that to get the pieces put on.

And Honda's ability to buy enough high quality batteries...well, that doesn't exist, either. The kinds of batteries they want to put in these cars just are not made in high quantities...and they are expensive.

getakey

Tesla may have all the batteries locked up. They are producing over 5000 cars per quarter

George Knighton

Maybe next year!

neuronbob

We won't know anything for sure until Acura tells the public.

If the rumors of purposely low volume are true, how disappointing. My bet is that SOME dealers are saying that to keep the average transaction price up.

George Knighton

I don't think they're doing it deliberately as much as they just "cannot" do it the way that they set out to do it.

It's not an easy car to build. The regular RLX/Legend is not easy, and the Hybrid is quite bad.

Even if they had the money to waste bribing people to give Honda the batteries instead of somebody else, there would still not be enough batteries in 2014.

I hope they realize what a great car they have on their hands, and I hope they refocus and continue to improve.

Think about it, though. We as enthusiasts are all about this car. But it's an edgy, weird, thing that some people say is ugly and uninspired. If they went all out with production, they'd just blow it because people aren't going to want it.

When they realized that the ITR was a market influence, they found a way to produce twice as many/year as originally planned. Most people didn't want to buy an ITR, but the idea brought them into the showroom even if they ended up leaving with a 5 speed, four door GS-R.

That is probably the best case scenario...that the RLX Hybrid will eventually get up to 2,000/year and it will have enough presenteeism to get people into the building to buy their TLX, MDX or ILX.

Honda's a very strange company. You just never know for sure why they do things that don't bring in the profit. It's as if a little team decides, "Hey, that's neat!" and off they go even though it'll never sell in volume.

George Knighton

When people start comparing the acceleration figures of the RLX Hybrid against other vehicles that cost about the same, it's not going to show up well. It's not a competitive vehicle in the segment.

It's only going to appeal to strange people who "get it" when it comes to what they were trying to do.

One thing I'll say is that people need to drive it to see what it does.

You're looking at something like 5.4s to 60 for the Hybrid instead of 5.7s to 60 for the FWD RLX, so people wonder what the fuss is about.

It's the way the power's delivered in everyday driving that makes the difference. The car swings through corners more easily than you'd ever believe, and in addition to the fanciness of the electrics and electronics doing this and that, the fact is that they did a very, very good job with the J35Y4's tuning.

You very rarely have to go from 0-60 in a hurry.

What you *will* have to do on occasion is suddenly move quickly from 25-65, or from 40-80. And both versions of the car are very, very good at that. This motor is tuned very well indeed, and in a situation like that the electric car will show that it moves relatively quickly for a car that is so very heavy.

getakey

George - why are you saying it is difficult to build? Where is that info from?

Mike_TX

I don't think the 1000 number is that surprising. Face it - the RLX isn't a high-volume vehicle to begin with, and the Hybrid is going to be regarded as a specialty or niche version of an already slow-moving car.

Add to that the fact hybrids in general aren't the best-selling version of any carmaker's line (the Prius being almost an exception). In spite of the fact the RLX hybrid is more of a performance hybrid than an economy hybrid, and some of you guys are looking purely at the 0-60 numbers, the general public isn't going to be beating down the doors just because of that. After all, fast cars are everywhere.
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victorber

I was told today from our dealer in DE they are scheduled to receive the SHAWD RLX In late May, not sure about the qty...

Fabvsix

Classic Acura Marketing scheme that they have been doing for years.....NOTHING NEW.....Hype Hype Hype....And salesfolks are full of cow pies.......same o same o

hondamore

It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense from Acura's perspective to spend all of the time and money to design the SHAWD RLX when they can only build 1000 per year because of supply shortages. I still believe it is a lot more likely that the shortage is contrived. Unless you are getting your info from the president of Honda, George, I think you are being told what Acura wants people to hear. "Shortages" of the AWD RLX will boost the price for the AWD version and also help to sell the FWD version to some of those who were waiting.
If the same person told you that the 0-60 time for the AWD version will only be 0.3 seconds faster than the FWD version, then I believe this person was trying to sell the FWD version he has sitting on the lot and his story will change once the AWD versions arrive. I base this statement on the fact that the AWD RLX has 100 ft.lbs more torque than the FWD(most importantly instant, low-end torque that V6's notoriously lack)AND has 4 tires to put the power down instead of two. Both of these factors are key to acceleration times and the reasons that the AWD version should overcome the 200 pounds of extra weight to produce substantially better acceleration than the FWD. The reported acceleration numbers you were told could simply be choosing the lowest number reported for the FWD version and the highest number reported for the AWD version to help pump up the FWD and close a sale. Some of the prototype reviews seemed to suggest that high 4's or 5 flat were possible for the AWD version and I've seen tests of the FWD version at or over 6 seconds.
Just my two cents.

George Knighton

Personal observation. :-) Compared to the typical unibody with FWD assembly line.

Mind you, I hope they build thousands of them...just so I can get a deal if nothing else!

George Knighton

This is the observation (0.3s to 0.5s difference) of several testers who've had their hands on the usual production RLX Advance test vehicle, and the pre-production version of the RLX Hybrid that was making the test rounds a couple of months ago.

Didn't have anything to do with selling cars, and the testers didn't really give a damn.

We'll see.

In regards to this I can only say.... I hope you're right!! :-)

Remember, though, that the RLX Hybrid isn't putting the power down the same way the 9G TL 6-6 SH-AWD would put it down. The power you mentioned isn't available all at once, and the percentage of total power on the rear wheels is much less.

And only 200# lighter? I thought it was about twice that, but I haven't looked in a while and I'll concede that you're probably right because I won't look again for a while.

CFoote

It definitely is frustrating. The 1000 figure came from a mechanic at my dealership....obviously that info came from a Acura rep, so we'll see.

Chris

smaragh72

I saw this on vtec.net. 0-60 4.8s
http://vtec.net/forums/one-message?m...page_number=1&

George Knighton

I wonder how Motor Trend got ½ s quicker than everybody else so far.

If it's true...that's great and even more incentive to think seriously about this car.

But I can't seem to find where Motor Trend said this...can somebody point me to it?

George Knighton

In December, Motor Trend said, "We're estimating a 0-60-mph time in the high fours, but seat of the pants says it could be a mid-four-second car (the FWD RLX tested out to 5.8 seconds)."

hondamore

The tires are likely the limiting factor in the 0-60 time of the RLX SHAWD that they tested. With the right rubber, perhaps the mid-4's Motor Trend predicted is attainable.
All of that said, it doesn't really make much difference for my buying decision as the RLX is certainly quick enough for my needs.

neuronbob

Hell yeah. (disclaimer: yes, I understand that 0-60 time is meaningless.)

"Not a sport sedan" my ass. This may just be the sleeper of the year, 4.8 s is faster than an S2000 can get there.

I want to see what it does with proper rubber now. Or on a dragstrip, hehhehheh.

*starts rubbing hands in glee, thinking of wheel/tire mods before setting foot in the car*

It's in the print edition of MT, which I just got in the mail this weekend. I hadn't read it yet, now I will. I'll see if I can scan it when I get home from work tonight.

getakey

Been waiting very patiently for the RLX to arrive. 0 to 60 is not that important to me, but would be cool to see a sub 5 second for the car.
However, if price tag is 70Kish, I'm going to look very closely at the Tesla X

JM2010 SH-AWD

Wow, if this thing does 4.8 with its already acclaimed handling and Krell stereo (heard it with my own ears - amazing), beautiful interior and 30 mpg, what will the haters say then? Oh yeah, it's "bland." This car is looking more and more interesting.

neuronbob

I retract my excitement and replace it with eager anticipation. I looked at my paper MT and that 4.8 s time is estimated. The article is the same first drive that was on the web some weeks ago during the first flurry of reviews for the Sport Hybrid.

Looking forward to a proper instrumented test by one of the car rags.

getakey

bummer - you kind of wonder why it has not been done yet

TSX69

Not sure how reliable this is but my local dealer says that they will have it for sale in 7 weeks; they were very confident about it.

weather

Although I am not surprised by the limited numbers of SH-SH-AWD RLX and the challenges in getting the battery supplies, once has to wonder why they couldn't do a RLX SH-AWD in their higher trim, something like they are doing with the TLX....a P-AWS and SH-AWD.

This way, folks wanting an RLX with the SH-AWD wouldn't have to be limited to the hybrid version. Its a shame if you ask me....Especially if they knew that only a very limited supplies of SH-SH-AWD would be available.

George Knighton

But if they'd done that, would you have felt that 310 HP was enough for a big, huge Leviathan of an RLX with the extra weight of the prop shaft and rear differential, and everything else that comes with it?

George Knighton

The people who tested the pre-production version couldn't get anything like that.

There might have been programming changes that would improve acceleration, I suppose. I mean, after all, they were apparently able to program the removal of that awful hesitation going into reverse.

Miracles can happen. :-)

I was looking forward to seeing under 5.0 s to 60 reports, but they did not materialize. The same tester who'd get 5.735 with the RLX FWD would get 5.30 with the AWD.

But, I mean, let's be realistic. Even if it is 5.3-5.4 to 60, that's plenty fast.

The TL 6-6 was in about that range, with a relaxed 13.8 to 1/4.

George Knighton

This is the review of the pre-production car by Alex Dykes. He annoys some people because he drones on for as much as half an hour when he's onto a car.

:-)

But the result of his devoting this much time to his reviews is that he gives us more information and more ideas than most other people who hop into a car and give us 0-60 and 1/4 times and talk about how awful a car is in a figure eight.

I'm putting this here because he gives a good explanation of the integration of the DCT 7 Speed, and he reports his findings of the 0-60 time.

That poor, poor Pomegranate RLX.

It's probably a smoldering heap by now.

George Knighton

He got 5.35s to 60.

weather

I totally get what you are saying, that being said, depriving or limiting access to one of the BEST AWD system there is out there is not a smart move either. I feel that people that want to own the flag ship of the brand also want to have one of the best handling system there is out there.....limiting it to only a few a year because of battery supply is not very smart.

I don't have a problem with limiting their SH-AWD with the hybrid version, just don't make it virtually non accessible....not because of price but because of supply.

BTW...Thanks for posting that youtube review of the SH-SH-AWD......that was a very good video actually.

holografique

I think you answered your own question

I believe that because Honda is a massive multi-million (if not billion) dollar company that have revenue streams spanning dozens of different market segments, that type of revenue and size allows them to have the liberty and freedom to financially fund small teams to do exactly that which you stated: "hey, that's neat!"....and off they go and build it without any real focus or need for it to be a "cash cow" and provide a substantial revenue generation stream. They can do it more so for the "spirit" of Honda/Acura, to do something that carries the true company message and brand to a degree of perfection that isn't meant to be scalable in mass quantities. To appease those types of customers like us that they know will buy the vehicle simply because we enjoy the brand, the products, and the quality while at the same time wanting something truly unique, special and that stands out from the rest.

As long as they can get some decent profit margins to cover their production costs of the vehicle, why not build it right? I mean it's really no different than saying the NSX failed because it wasn't built for mass production. The NSX is a niche car, it's not designed to produce in mass quantities. I see the SH-AWD RLX being somewhat similar. They built it because they could. Nothing more really to it than that

weather

^^ True but they shouldn't have done the same with the RLX, the NSX should suffice. At some point, you are still a car company and in the business to make money and offer your customers the chance the enjoy the technology.

I think that Honda needs to stop building robots, planes (etc) and focus on earning their reputation as the class leader. They have been dethroned at their own game, they were the leading Japanese car company in the luxury segment and now, they are trailing. To an extent, we can all allow the brand to experiment and dabble into experimental or limited products, but not at the expense of losing your credibility in the auto industry and making your customers feel like they are crazy to buy or stand behind the brand.

My 2 cents of course....

holografique

From the perspective of bringing "focus" and better "consistency" and "longevity", I completely agree Weather

TampaRLX-SH

Offering mechanical SHAWD to the RLX would re-introduce the overlap the RL & TL endured. Acura is attempting to define the RLX and TLX not only in noticeable differences in styling and size but also remove some feature overlap.

Moving the RLX tor Sport Hybrid SHAWD allows the RLX and TLX mechanical SHAWD to further differentiate.

The RL>RLX is a showcase vehicle with newest technology launched on this model before trickling down into the Acura and even Honda brands. That was done with the RL's SHAWD.

The RLX is now doing the same with PAWS (which will later be offered on the TLX).

Further, the RLX is too low a volume model to add yet more packaging options. This is totally contrary to the Acura business model of one, two or three model variations.

Considering all the packaging options on the RLX I find it odd I cannot get the page option with color combinations I want. I cannot image what a chore for dealers this is as the RLX volume is low and rumors the SHAWD RLX will be kept to minimum inventory and likely an ordering situation.

weather

TampaRL....but as things stands now, so few people will be able to get their hands on the SH-SH-AWD so it appears that owning a SH-AWD TLX will be more accessible than a RLX with SH-SH-AWD.

I am fully aware that the RLX is a low volume seller and that regardless, there would be more TLX SH-AWD than the RLX but its a shame that the RLX Sh-SH-AWD won't be limited by people wanting the technology but rather, by production restriction or limited capacity.

Sorry for taking the thread a little to the left....

TampaRLX-SH

I agree with your point weather, but Sport Hybrid SHAWD is a new showcase feature. The RLX is the deployment model. Mechanical SHAWD was initially limited to the RL only as well. Acura likes to follow this model and perhaps mitigate risks Will h new technology by doing so. And as mentioned they needed to differentiate the RLX and TLX from the overlap RL and TL suffered.

At least a version will also be in the NSX. But early adopters will have to pay for limited availability and exclusivity.

Personally I expect if Sport Hybrid is successful, it will show up in the MDX before the TLX.

getakey

I'm wondering which Mfgr will be the first with all electric AWD with 4 motors; 1 per wheel
Tesla, Honda or ??