I agree, it does help.

 

Thanks. I still like European cars. But I have 2 kids now, I don't have much spare time to deal with car issues. Hope this Acura will give me trouble free.

I are using Canon 5D2. again, all about kids.

 

Looks good. Thanks for sharing.

 

Congrats!

 

congrats.

 

Many congrats on your new RLX. We are a two Acura family partly for Sh AWD but also for the reliability. We have not been disappointed on the reliability side. Hope you have many years of good service from your RLX.

 

I didn't see anything in the OP's post that indicated he didn't like his former BMW or was disgruntled. A 545i is a 2004-2007 model, so it was getting a little long in the tooth, probably. He said the RLX ride was more comfortable for him. So at this stage in his life he was looking for a more floaty, smooth ride vs a sport ride.

Let's be real. Any current model 5 or 7 series BMW runs circles around the fwd version of the RLX. We will have to wait for the sport hybrid sh-awd version to see if that version of the RLX can hold its own.

 

I agree. I also think maybe it is prudent for Acura to not try to compete directly with BMW. It seems that any car that has attempted to out-BMW BMW has fallen short.

 

With two exceptions. The Infiniti G came VERY close to the 3 series, and depending on which reviews you read, the current Cadillac ATS has either scored right there, as good as, or a smidge better than the 3 series.

 

C&D, MT, Edmunds have all ranked the 3 series higher than the CTS thus far:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...o/viewall.html
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html

But the difference between the two isn't much now. I think one of the issues is that BMW has taken a few steps behind in terms of driving involvement. Most of these reviews seem to complain about the steering feel (or the lack of) and brake feel. And now without the classic I6 engine sound, the 3 series is just not as good as before subjectively. It seems like BMW is focusing too hard on objective numbers such as 0-60mph, skidpad g's, and EPA ratings.

It will be interesting to see how BMW will react when Cadillac starts making better engines and when Infiniti launches the Q50. And if those two cars are better than the 3 series, what will happen to the sales number of each car?

 

I hope car enthusiasts will consider the Infiniti Q 50 and the Cadillac CTS. However, I fear brand enthusiasts will not cross shop BMW with non-German brands.

 

I think you find there is a set of people that get swayed in to the Germans then experience the lower reliability and higher repair/maintenance costs of the German brands that will then cross shop the Asians next time around. There are plenty of those folks on these forums. There are then the die hard fans of any make that will not cross shop.

 

I'm assuming you meant the Cadillac ATS. The new CTS is meant to go head to head with the 5 series.

The biggest complaint against the ATS is that the manual (only available on the 4 cylinder models) sucks, and the automatics are still only 6 speeds while BMW offers an 8 speed.

The 8 speed is pretty sweet. It's the same tranny that's in our X5 and it's silky smooth.

 

The ATS is supposedly getting cross shopped, but it will take a while before the ATS will seriously eat into 3 series sales. Once Cadillac offers an 8 speed transmission (which I think is coming out with the new CTS) and they improve the manual it may start to happen. The car has to mature

What will be interesting is the new variation of the 3.6L V6 that is coming out in the next generation CTS.

It will get twin turbos and put out 420 HP. It will be called the "V Sport", but it won't be a replacement for the 8 cylinder CTS-V.

Rumor is they might put that same engine in the ATS and call it the ATS-V. Given the lighter chassis in the ATS, that could be a monster.

 

lol yes I meant the ATS, not sure why I kept on typing CTS........

 

IMO, you are actually seeing the opposite now days with people. Many people are realising the reliabilty perception isnt what it use to be with Japanese brands 20-30 years ago and that the reliability gap is much closer today.

While people will look at a lot of variables when considering a luxury car. A lot of people will focus on build quality and this is where Acura will lose some customers or at least a chance of getting those conquest buyers.

 

So you are saying Acura build quality is not as good as thought and that German maintenance and repair costs are comparable to Acura?

I go tomAcura or Infiniti and my oil change is under $50, I have people telling me they can not get out of BMW for under $100. Also while the reliability is closer today I still thinks most stats will show that the Japanese are still a little more reliable.

 

nice!


and its super awesome that you guy's are using google plus to share pictures!

 

This is pretty humorous. Look up "flat bed" and "Audi." Made for each other.

 

True, but keep in mind that BMW calls for longer oil change intervals due to the use of synthetics, sometimes coming close to 13K to 15K miles. So while the oil change is more expensive in BMW, you will have to take the Acura in for two oil changes for the one for the BMW. So the total cost is close to a wash.

Also as I mentioned before, BMW's "free maintenance" during the factory warranty is pretty comprehensive. Not only does it cover oil changes and filters, but also brake fluid flushes and pads. Case in point We took our 2011 X5 in today to have the backup camera looked at. It was flickering (like an old TV out of tune) and occasionally flashing a malfunction error. The service manager called to inform me that they have to replace a cable to fix the camera, and that they also are replacing the front brake pads (the on board computer said they were due to be replaced soon) along with the rotors. I guess BMWs policy is not to machine the rotors. I didn't probe or ask any further questions since it's not costing me anything out of pocket (front brake job with rotors is about $800). The computer was also indicating that the rear pads had about 3K miles on them. He was going to try and see if he could get authorization to replace them now (to save me another trip) but since they should call to be replaced well before the factory warranty expires, the SM suggested that we wait as it will work in my favor as the brakes if we replace them later.

Yeah I know that people will say that BMWs cost more so that "free maintenance" may not be free, but keep in mind that not all the other luxury brands offer a comparable program, if at all. Cadillac's free maintenance only covers wipers, oil and filters (including cabin). Also with respect to price, Given Acura's recent pricing model, they no longer offer the bang for the buck that they used to.

 

Go Hawks has already touched on the maintenance issue's and once your outside of warranty you can easily find private shops that can repair your vehicle for much less than the dealer. I do most of my own maintenance on vehicles and after your response decided to call my local Acura and VW dealer to compare basic items like air/pollen/oil filters, etc etc (Being we cross shopped a TSX vs a GLI many years ago) and the overall total for our GLI was cheaper than the TSX we almost bought. In fact, we have owned Toyota's, Honda's, Nissan's etc and this VW product has easily been the cheapest to own over the last 8 years than any of the others i have mentioned.

As far as build quality goes, you are correct in what you heard me say. This was one of the main things that detered us from buying a 4G TL (6MT) back in 2010. A good friend of mine purchased a new RL back in 2006 and after a few months of ownership gave it to his wife and purchased a Lexus because he couldnt handle the rattles, poor paint/leather quality etc etc. I recently told him he should go look at the new RLX as it seems like a nice vehicle that he would appreciate it and he stated after his last experience with Acura it would be a long time till he ever stepped into another Acura showroom.(This is what Acura needs to address)....Reliabilty isnt the issue but Acura needs to really focus on build quality. Even a recent review from Cars.com commented on the same build quality issues with the 4G TL, so its nothing new to the industry.

Statistically the Japanese brands may be slightly better than the Germans but go over to the 4G TL or TSX forums if you want to see something funny. There you have the same crew always slamming BMW or Audi etc about poor reliabilty and then in the same week you'll see that same person start a thread about how his Transmission/Torque Convertor is being replaced or how they are on their 2 or 3 prop shaft or how their J series engine is burning oil, etc etc etc..........But remember, the Germans are horribly unreliable.....Ya ok...

 

..and Cadillac makes you pay extra if you want synthetic oil...at some dealers.

 

The duration between oil changes has nothing to do with BMW or Acura, it is the oil. The Acura will be 13 to 15k with synth too but the minder does not know which kind of oil was used so it assumes conventional.
My RL at 60k miles had original rotors, brakes, cables, cameras etc and cost me about $200 in oil changes so what use would "free maintenance" be?
Maybe BMW offers free maintence for the same reason as Kia offers 100k warranty - they both need it?

 

This is consistent with my previous BMW ownership. While I had to bring the car in more often, I rarely paid for anything. And on several occasions the service department would repair or replace things that I didn't even ask for. I think they get paid by BMW to do this maintenance so it is actually in the dealers favor to do this, but regardless the owner benefits. And if it is a leased car (which many probably are) it is BMW's benefit to maintain them. BMW service was the best I've had on any car, I just was there more often than I wanted to be. I never paid for an oil change, and on two occasions got an out of cycle change at no cost.

Rattles and squeaks in the first MY of the TSX was a common problem. They did work these out eventually, but if you were an early adopter you were essentially part of the test program to find rattles and squeaks. This is one reason I'm hesitant to buy a first year car from anyone, Acura included. I want to like the new TLX but I'm a little worried about buying one in the first year. Hopefully they will benefit from a year of Accord experience.

 

I bought a 09 AWD TL early on and it was by far the best built car I owned tied with my 93 Camry XLE. Not a squeak rattle, buzz nothing. Car was a tank for 2 years before I traded it.

 

I think when it comes to reliability, we need to be looking at the stats. We cannot say a brand is reliable or unreliable based on personal experiences. Reliability is mostly about, out of 100 cars, how many of of those cars will have issues. If 5/100 cars have issues, and you drive one of those 5 defective models, then you will feel that this model is not reliable. On the other hand, you can be driving a model where 50/100 of them have issues. You still have 50% chance of driving one that is trouble-free. And if you do have the trouble-free one, then you will think that brand makes reliable cars.

The BMW 4-year/50000 miles free-maintenance program is excellent if you are leasing a new BMW model along with the warranty program. If the car ever has any issues that have to be repaired, there's the warranty to cover you, just like any new cars.

The maintenance program is probably worth about $1000 depending on which BMW vehicle you are leasing. For only 50000 miles, I don't think many things have to be replaced other than the about 3 oil changes ($300 in total?), some filters, one brake fluid replacement. Brake pads usually last 30000-70000 miles. I'd imagine BMW ones should be on the higher end of that. Brake rotors shouldn't need replacing within the first 50000 miles. If they do need replacing, then there's something with the car, and should be covered under warranty, not maintenance. I think BMW claims their transmission oil is for lifetime. I'm guessing it still should be changed, it's just that the fluid would last a long time, may be 100000 miles. Things like spark plugs, timing chains/belts, sensors all should last more than the first 50000 miles too. So really, I don't think the whole program is really worth a whole lot of money.

As for the BMW dealership offering free brake rotor replacement. Well, I think it really depends on the dealer. It's the same with any other brand. You have BMW guys here complaining their BMW dealers don't do anything for them as well: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=428361

I think Audi and MB also offer maintenance program for 4-years/50k miles for about $800. So that's pretty much how much the program is worth.

 

For the last a lot of years I stopped looking at jd power, consumers reports, car and driver in my decision making. I care less about aggregate reliability. If possible I try find a neighboor, friend, associate with a similiar model and talk to him/her about the car and dealer. I figured out Consumers red and black dots didnt guarantee me a trouble free or a lemon for an automobile.

 

At the end of the day, those surveys basically tell you one thing - how likely are you going to have issue(s)? I think people tend to think that if a brand is considered reliable , then there will be no issues. On the other hand, people also have the tendency to think that if a brand is know to have bad reliability, then all of its cars will have issues. The reality is that, for a reliable brand, the probability of having issues is like 8-10%. On the other end of the scale, the probability of having issues for a unreliable brand is usually around 15%. One way to look at this is, the unreliable brand is twice more likely to have issues. But another way of looking into this is that, an unreliable brand is only a few % more likely to have issues.

 

...and I traded in my '06 Acura RL with 95K miles with the original brakes and rotors so what is your point? All that means is that you and I would not have benefited as much from any free maintenance due to the miles we drive. Does that mean it's of no value? I don't think so.

As for the oil issue. The original post said that Acura oil changes are $50 and BMW is $100. So if you decide to use synthetic you will get the same oil change interval as the BMW and I agree with you on that, but you won't be paying $50 for that oil change.

Let's compare apples to apples.

As for my RL, during the 95K miles the both of the front door handles were replaced at least 5 times.... Each!! That's ten times. The EGR valve failed which required replacement along with all the injectors requiring replacement (there was a TSB on that). The navigation needed to be reprogrammed due to a Navtraffic issue. Acuracare wouldn't cover it so my dealer did it out of goodwill and a couple of other minor issues.

Having said all that I loved my Acura, but it was hardly bulletproof.

 

All these surveys tell you is what the other guy experienced. Since 1994 all of my vehicles had minor to no problems during my ownership. Ford, Nissan, BMW, jeep, Lincoln mercury, Toyota, infiniti, Honda plus a few I can't remember ATM.

Best ownership BMW, worst jeep. Jeep had the most number of warranty repairs. With the fore mentioned exception and maintenance items like brakes, my cars rarely made unscheduled dealer visits and those cars that needed attention during scheduled service were mostly nuisance items like rattles.

Hence, the it is what it is attitude and I drive what I want to drive without a consult from the statistics purveyors.

 

I used to research Consumer Reports extensively and read all reliability charts before buying a car. Now I don't bother. I think the gap has closed and most new cars today are more reliable than the most reliable ones from 10-15 years ago.

Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Cadillac, Lexus, Infiniti ... reliability doesn't sway my decision. I'm at the point now that how much I enjoy the vehicle and how much fun it is are the overriding decision criteria. Some of you may think this is foolish, but life's too short. I work hard and I want to enjoy what I drive.

Sure, I may get let down or inconvenienced, but the rest of the 99% of the time, will more than make up for it. Besides, if it's really that bad, I'll sell it.

 

I think from the perspective of those buying new cars you are pretty much correct.

That reliability rating stuff is really more for the people who are buying used cars either due to financial or family related issues. Looking for that 5yo car with 80k and no warranty. If I had three hellion sons aged 6-12 I'd skip a new BMW/MB all together and say "screw that, it'll get shredded" ... wish I had the money to say IDGAF

But I generally agree with you 100% if you're buying new and selling in say 3-5 years/60-100k miles and replacing with some other new thing.

Buy what ya like, ride it hard and sell it wet.

 

Congratulations on your new purchase and welcome to AcuraZine

 

Yea I think personal experience plays a huge role when it comes to buying the next car. I agree, if you really like a specific brand/model, there's no reason to buy something else based on some surveys.

 

Now that is funny!

 

Also I think going 13-15K between oil changes is nuts. All the syn oil in the world does not protect against moisture. It's such cheap insurance to change that in half the time. If you are leasing and flipping the car I can see that you wouldn't care but if you are going to keep the car past warranty it's playing with fire.

 

6K is about my limit on an oil change with synthetic. On my old TL that was about 20-30% still on the MID

 

Then the manufacturers of the oil appreciate your business, you are buying 50% more oil than you need to.
Years ago, on this forum, I asked if anybody had ever attributed engine failure to "not changing oil often enough". Nobody had ever heard of that occurance.

If you change dyno oil every 12000 miles then the car will still outlast your want to keep the car.

 

And your conclusion is based on what? A straw poll here? Go ahead and save yourself an extra $100 a year on oil cost, I'm sure it's worth it.....

 

While the oil might last that long the filter becomes an issue as well. Also at some point themadditives breakmdown as well. For the trivial cost of the oil changes I don't mind for the piece of mind.