Had the following happen last Friday
Been driving back to Bay Area from Sacramento area almost every Friday due to project up there
Typical no traffic issues on the route I go. About 20 minutes into drive, traffic flow went away in Navi. And of course, 20 minutes later I hit a big traffic jam. Ultimately, made me very late for dinner reervation. I would have been able to reroute if traffic was showing. Acuralink showed full signal and the "little green light" was green.
I connect to Acuralink services to see if there is a known outage for Traffic. They say no and direct me to take car in for Service to check. I say form my experience, this is typically not an "in car" issue.
Anyway, I say I'd like some sort of refund on fees paid since it was not available in time of need. They say they can give me a prorated refund (for 1day), but only if I cancel the Service. WTF?
They have an unhappy customer and their solution is to get rid of the Customer.
I ended up speaking to a Supervisor for over 20 minutes on this issue. I told them their is no other Service I have that in some sort of outage, the service company wants to get rid of me rather than fix the situation and does not give me some level of credit. In my opinion, the credit should be siginificant as I pay for a service to be available during time of need. I pay for it realizing that 90% of the time I do not need it, but it is critical when there are traffic issues.

It was a very frustrating call and there was no real "customer service" involved.
Of course after I got home and then restarted the car, the service resumed. I'm thinking the receiver gets in some state that it can not receive data and it gets reset during a restart. Seems like they need some sort of ability to send a "reset" to the car. They must get many calls on this.

 

It is very likely the car needed a 'refresh' at minimum or a 'reboot' at worse.

Since the infotainment bootup is triggered by the ignition, I think they need a redesign. A refresh or Reboot capability without shutting down and restarting the car is my suggestion.

Cars are moving receivers pinging cell towers, it is possible the data refresh gets hosed by momentary signal interruptions. The car's software is not yet sophisticated enough to 'try again' and drops the data. Should there be a refresh cycle button on the infotainment you could have initiated that instead of a car on / off reboot.

By the time they develop that feature, we will be using car interfaces that just make the infotainment system a slave to our smart phones.

 

totally agree re reboot
where is that ctrl alt del when you need it

 

It's worse in my Cadi. A reboot takes shutting down the car, then opening the door, then restarting the car. In this car, a reboot just takes shutting down the car as all infotainment goes off immediately (which I think personally is a poor UI choice--prevents "driveway moments" when listening to a good show or song on the radio).

The frustrating call to AcuraLink, though.....

 

In my RL there used to be a way to reset the NAV system by holding down three of the four buttons in the center stack -- can't remember which ones. It wasn't something that was in the Owners Manual but something designed for the service techs to test all of the systems functions [which the gurus on Acurazine disclosed].

Is there no comparable method in the RLX? Seems to me that this is tech 101 to include. There must be a way to do this on the new system without shutting down the car.

 

The traffic in google maps on smartphones seems to works really well. Can you use as backup.

 

but why should I pay for acura that requires backup

 

Holding down NAV, BACK and MENU still gets you to the diagnostic menu in the RLX, as it did in the RL, but I do not remember if the RL had any sort of reset function in that menu. Perhaps it was a different three-button combination.

 

I know this is completely unacceptable, but you could put a normally connected contact switch inline at the fuse to disconnect the power at any time.

Again, unacceptable, but I am used to working around electronic issues. They happen, and even the best engineers can't always foresee issues they never experience themselves.

 

^^^

understand and agree with your assessment. However my reality this week alone:

1) Smart phone issue: Tech Support FIRST response 'Try Reboot'
2) Alarm System issue: Tech Support FIRST response 'Sending Reboot Ping'
3) DVR Box issue: Tech Support FIRST response: 'Try Reboot'
4) Antivirus Program freeze: Tech Support FIRST response: 'Reboot PC'
5) Soft Phone issue: Tech Support FIRST response: 'Unplug & Reboot'.

Mind you I had already tried self remedies before calling Tech Support. However, if that is the blanket FIRST response to all smart technology, you would think a reboot / refresh button would be available to smart cars instead of shutting down the car, waving hands in air, lift left leg, count four geese and rub a river rock on your belly.

 

"Mind you I had already tried self remedies before calling Tech Support"

But not the obvious one

 

I have had my Navigation/Audio System completely lock up where restarting the car doesn’t even resolve it. When possible I have taken it straight to the dealer and there fix was to disconnect the battery. Which seems ridiculous to me. They have pulled error codes and called Acura Tech Line and from what I was told that was their recommendation as well.

 

Some additional info:
During this episode, I had Server Routing on and when I tried the "View Routes" function, it could never connect to the Server. However, when I was talking to Acuralink, they could "see" my location, so some data service was working.

 

Two different services, aren't they?

They could see where you were because of the car's satellite connection.

But you could not View Routes because your cellular was not working.

I'm still not 100% convinced that the cellular connection's ability to show us projected, historical traffic on primary and secondary roads makes up for not having the weather service from satellite connections, including radar maps that I seem to miss more than I thought that I would.

I get re-routed using QuckRoute very often, but it's not clear to me how and why this is happening. If it is because of the cellular reports, well....okay...I guess that's pretty useful. :-)

 

The Navigation Manual says that your cellular traffic updates every five minutes.

So if it seems to be down and it doesn't come back at the five minutes mark, I'd definitely call AcuraLink.

You might know more than they know at the moment you are calling.

 

I think only the car knows where it is because of the satellite connection. For the Acutalink operator to know where you are, he/she has to "see" the car and query its location by cellular radio. Am I wrong about this?

 

I am speculating here, but I doubt the interface of the infotainment system is nearly as sophisticated as a typical smart phone.

Think of any apps on your smart phone that update automatically. As slick as most are, even they occasionally freeze and stop updating. No biggie, we just refresh the app or the browser the content is rendered. Life goes on. Unless it is an unstable app, or the phone has major OS issues, you never have to reboot the phone (although regular rebooting does minimize these issues).

But if this scenario occurs in a car interface, the freeze or dropped updated data requires the system to be rebooted (by shutting down the car and restarting). I doubt infotainment systems in cars will ever get sophisticated enough to permit the user / driver to simply refresh the service and if they did, the infotainment technology then become redundant to most user's smart phones.

I do wonder about some of the more advanced web enabled systems such as the Audi Google interface. Perhaps one of our members with a newer Audi can comment if there is similar refresh issues, or perhaps those systems do not have refresh / update challenges by momentary signal loss?

 

This is an interesting point. The last gen RL did use XM for the Acuralink services, such as GPS locale.

But the current RLX with Acuralink II has cellular support for Acuralink. I am not sure satellite is part of that communication to Acura. I think the location is typical triangulation of cell tower pings? There may be some satellite tracking capability, but I am unsure if XM still supports that Acuralink II service as it did with the RL (no subscription required).

Acuralink II (as many new car interfaces) is more reliant on cellular support and less on satellite (to the chagrin of XM). The model is rooted to the ONSTAR system which can locate a car even when it cannot be seen by satellite, assuming there is cellular contact. My RL has ONSTAR and Acuralink, so I guess I have both capabilities.

 

I don't know.

I can not see a reason why American Honda would want to lock themselves out of their satellite leased space, and I can see a lot of reasons why they would want to always be connected, including the emergency service that we use to tell emergency services where it is that your airbags have gone off.

Locating a vehicle via cellular connections is far less accurate than locating you via two satellites giving the same longitude and latitude coordinates.

So I can't swear that I'm right but I think there's enough anecdotal evidence for me to suppose that I'm right.

:-)

 

Moving data via cellular is much cheaper than moving the same amount of data via satellite.

Just ask any Iridium subscriber. :-)

But cellular location services are slow and inaccurate, and you'd want to rely on two satellites pointing to you in that case.

All cellular location is an estimate when compared to the accuracy of satellites.

 

Aha!

Maybe this is proof!

When the map is showing, say the voice command, "Display current location."

I think it's likely you'll agree with me that the information you're now looking at did not come from a cell tower.

:-)

 

Good information George.

Honda did own a percentage of XM, and I am unsure how much of that relationship remains. Perhaps AcuraLink II is a hybrid of both satellite and cellular services. My guess is most data is cellular sourced now, but perhaps the GPS component remains for location accuracy. How the two are married is still a guess to me (ie. GPS tracking overlaid with cellular traffic data).

 

Now that my suspension is fixed, I am going to focus on Acuralink. More than 50% of the time I get a message on the nav and traffic , "Acuralink not available". I spoke with tech service at Acuralink today ( 800-382-2238 option #6 ). The tech said that the system runs off a satellite - no cellular. The light near the Acuralink button is green when connected red when not. If it stays red, take it in to have the module checked. I guess I have to start reading the manual !

 

I would bet the Navi/GPS is not connected to Acuralink
Navi gets a feed from Acuralink to display traffic, just like the feed when it came from XM.
Acuralink gets location from car, not satellite system directly.

I was comparing Navtraffic to Google traffic yesterday because of storm and I was debating whether to hit the road. Very different

 

I would be that it is, because of the necessity of sending an exact location to police or the fire and rescue, if they cannot speak with the driver when the car declares an emergency.

 

George, are you saying that if I do not have AcuraLink activated, Acura's servers can determine my location? Through what mechanism, if the servers are not communicating with the car? The car can't talk to the servers to tell them location through a satellite, either GPS or XM, both of which are one-way.

 

I mean not directly but indirectly. Navi gets location from satellite. Car has location local in Navi system. Acuralink has access to the Navi info in the car.

Iagree it is not using cellular location

 

I think we are getting our terms mixed up. The NAV system works off the satellites and so it (and the car) always knows where it is. The AcuraLink system is separate and runs through a cellular connection. When your airbags go off, the AcuraLink system sees that and asks the car where it is and then calls out over the cell network to report the emergency. That's why I say that Acura doesn't know where you are until reported by the car over the cell connection, which has to be turned on and within range. Am I missing something here? (Oops, getakey got there first!)

 

Getakey - I'm still trying to figure out what Server Route does and how it's different from regular, within-car routing. Better traffic, though traffic is live anyway? Better map data, though mixing new and old map data would confuse the system? Something else? Thanks.

 

I have not found out either - looked all thru manual

 

I experienced that first hand in my recent accident. If my memory serves me correctly, someone from Acuralink was automatically dialed in and on the HFL asking me for my name and if I was ok within about 15 seconds of the accident occurring. It startled me at first and had to come to my senses as to who the F was talking to me since I didn't expect that to proactively happen (I thought it was a reactive thing where you pushed the emergency button if you were involved in an accident, needed assistance, etc. etc.)

 

so went on the same route in reverse today
traffic disappeared briefly twice in the same region that it happened before. This time the traffic came back on. I'm thinking it might be related to roaming from one cell net to another and something gets hosed in the process sometimes and cannot reconnect.

I'm pretty sure they do not use Verizon because signal strength between my phone and Acuralink does not correlate. It would be doubtful that they would roam across different cell Technologies, so I'm betting AT&T and/or T-Moble.

 

Not sure what they use...Agero Connected is the provider of Acuralink...Agero Connected is now owned by.....SIRIUS/XM...so they provide the telematics support. Do you lose XM also when you lose the traffic? If so, then your connection is via satellite and not through cell towers. Not so mind blowing as I am very familiar with both telematics strategy and operations. Just check and you could then rule out Sirius/XM.

Garmin uses FM, others use FM with proprietary solutions to include cell and satellites, while Acura is playing with its own cloud service.

Cheers

 

I thought traffic for RLX is through cellular connection and that had been confirmed. There is no XM subscription required for Traffic.

 

Yesterday I drove into a dead-stopped traffic jam on the expressway. My navi was on. No warning from Acuralink. The travel line stayed blue throughout the five mile creep. This was near the city so if Acuralink traffic runs off cellular, it would have been available. XM traffic would have picked up this traffic jam and tried to reroute. My little light was green. $300 for what !

 

There is no XM subscription required for Traffic information.

However, your car's exact location is communicated via a GPS satellite connection that is constantly communicated, whether or not you have an XM subscription that might happen to come from the same satellite.

It's probably helpful to connect to AcuraLink and let them know when this happens. I don't know where you are or where you are traveling, but it's possible for a large operation close by to hog the data on the array closest to you. Also, in a traffic jam, it's possible that enough people have done something with their personal phones to make it appear to the array that Pharaoh's Army needs the bandwidth, and you get stuck booted from your scheduled 5-min mark communication.

They'd need to know where you were to see what array slowed down, and then they could try to influence their carrier.

If it doesn't sound like you're getting much help from the first connection with the overhead console (AcuraLink), then I would Display Current Location, and if you're at a standstill, put it in the Address Book.

Then I'd write to ACR or call them with the information about what was happening, the exact location, and the time of day.

It's not your business as a customer to do this, of course. It's a huge imposition. But if we want to improve the service, we have to let people know exactly what is wrong.

 

George - its not a connection problem,when the flow is displayed, but wrong. Its a problem with NavTraffic at the Vendor for this service.
They consolidate the info from many sources and send out. The data gets refreshed to the car every 5 minutes, but the source data is stale. Google does a great job of keeping the data updated. NavTraffic does not. It was the same issue when the data was delivered via XM. It's not the delivery, its the source. Has nothing to do with bandwidth of cellular or number of people connected.

 

Pardon me for asking this, please. I don't doubt you but I'm looking for edification: How do you know that's what's going on?

What I said about an individual array getting overwhelmed has to do with years of commuting in the NoVA/DC area, where everybody thinks his job is the most important one in the world, and everybody therefore gets on his smartphone and hogs all kinds of bandwidth when there's a traffic jam.

I confess that if I'm stuck somewhere, even on a relatively country road like 28, I'm still going to unplug the iPhone and start working on it.

 

You know....

If it is the provider, and we're certain of it, we should let ACR know enough of our frustration with it that they change providers.

 

I was in the wireless business and have talked to people who worked for Navtraffic competitors. They all admit that getting the data from various sources and consolidating it in a timely manner is an issue.
The biggest bandwidth hog for wireless as well as the data backbone network is Netflix