Synthetic motor Oil
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Synthetic motor Oil
The owner’s manual doesn’t call for synthetic motor oil. And, If I recall, it says change the oil and filter every 7,500 miles or one year (adjustments based on driving circumstances). It also says synthetic is also acceptable. My choice is always synthetic. Most of the cars I’ve owned called for it. But it seems to me that a four cylinder turbo would definitely benefit from synthetic, especially at these recommended change intervals. Maybe this is a cousin of ‘premium/regular’ debates but I don’t think so. Hoping those with more knowledge on the subject can weigh in.
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romer (06-25-2018)
#3
Latent car nut
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Running non-synthetic oil in a turbocharged engine, regardless of oil or vehicle maker, is a recipe for an early turbo replacement; even if the 7,500 mile OCI is adhered to.
#4
Suzuka Master
#5
Latent car nut
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Well, sort of; there is a Honda branded Synthetic Blend 0W-20 oil currently on the market.
#6
Burning Brakes
FWIW: Many cars, mine, for example, operate under (SEVERE) conditions. According to my Owner's Manual, "DRIVING LESS THAN 5 MILES, PER TRIP, OR IN FREEZING TEMPERATURES, DRIVING LESS THAN 10 MILES PER TRIP. DRIVING IN EXTREMELY HOT, OVER 90 DEG. CONDITIONS. ETC." Consequently, the ideal operation , oil change interval recommendation, of 7,500 miles, or one year, is halved, to 3,750 miles, or 6 months, whichever comes first. Most vehicles, I am familiar with, DO NOT, operate, under ideal conditions!
#7
Latent car nut
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FWIW: Many cars, mine, for example, operate under (SEVERE) conditions. According to my Owner's Manual, "DRIVING LESS THAN 5 MILES, PER TRIP, OR IN FREEZING TEMPERATURES, DRIVING LESS THAN 10 MILES PER TRIP. DRIVING IN EXTREMELY HOT, OVER 90 DEG. CONDITIONS. ETC." Consequently, the ideal operation , oil change interval recommendation, of 7,500 miles, or one year, is halved, to 3,750 miles, or 6 months, whichever comes first. Most vehicles, I am familiar with, DO NOT, operate, under ideal conditions!
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#8
Pro
The owner’s manual doesn’t call for synthetic motor oil. And, If I recall, it says change the oil and filter every 7,500 miles or one year (adjustments based on driving circumstances). It also says synthetic is also acceptable. My choice is always synthetic. Most of the cars I’ve owned called for it. But it seems to me that a four cylinder turbo would definitely benefit from synthetic, especially at these recommended change intervals. Maybe this is a cousin of ‘premium/regular’ debates but I don’t think so. Hoping those with more knowledge on the subject can weigh in.
#9
mrgold35
I've stuck with Mobil 1 5w-30 in my 1st Gen RDX and I still don't use any oil between my 5000-6,000 M.I.D. oil changes after +151,000 miles. I would stick with blend or full syn oil that meets or exceeds the recommended oil for the 3rd Gen RDX. I imagine the 2.0T is spinning up faster and getting hotter compared to my old 1st Gen RDX 2.3T 240hp/260tq and it needs that syn oil to cool things off.
#10
Drifting
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I don't think full synthetic is necessary for every car. But I don't think I'd run anything but synthetic for a car with a turbo. Between the operation of the turbo itself as well as the added stress and heat in the engine, a synthetic would be cheap insurance. The brand isn't a huge factor - Mobil 1, Valvoline Advanced, Pennzoil Platinum, whatever. It's not that much more expensive than conventional and is a very small price to pay for some added protection. Also, I recommend you use whatever viscosity the owners manual indicates. I used to use a grade thicker but based on some recent personal experience and the overall sentiment on the inter-webs, I believe the correct viscosity is the way to go.
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catbert430 (06-25-2018)
#11
Instructor
My 2 cents. A Porsche dealer sold me a 6 month old VW GTI once. They changed the oil with a semi synthetic blend on hand. This of course VOIDED the warranty as VW due to turbo issues requires very specific oil (502 standard)
Now, last night I noticed Mobil One full synthetic is $22 for 5 QTS at the world of mart (AKA W.M.). I usually buy a box of 12 Honda filters on line for $30 with the precious oil pan washer. What is that $25 bucks for a synthetic oil change. (assuming 5 qt capacity which I did not check)
Why would you not use the best lubricant at this price point on a $40-$50k car? Me I would be at 6 months, 7,500 miles regardless of what any book says. The true value of high quality synthetic is known at the 100,000 mile mark. My GTI would go just fine on the cheap oil put in it but how many miles would it subtract from the useful life had I not drained it immediately.?
Now, last night I noticed Mobil One full synthetic is $22 for 5 QTS at the world of mart (AKA W.M.). I usually buy a box of 12 Honda filters on line for $30 with the precious oil pan washer. What is that $25 bucks for a synthetic oil change. (assuming 5 qt capacity which I did not check)
Why would you not use the best lubricant at this price point on a $40-$50k car? Me I would be at 6 months, 7,500 miles regardless of what any book says. The true value of high quality synthetic is known at the 100,000 mile mark. My GTI would go just fine on the cheap oil put in it but how many miles would it subtract from the useful life had I not drained it immediately.?
#12
Drifting
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Sure, there's a chance that the Kroger pickles are as good as the Vlasic but why bother when the Vlasic is $3.99 and the Kroger is $3.49? Just get the good stuff for a bit more. BTW, my wife picked up Kroger pickles and they were . Vlasic pickles for life yo!
#13
Instructor
Thread Starter
Page 530 under 'Canadian models.' It speaks to several ranges of miles based on conditions.
#14
Instructor
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#15
Latent car nut
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For the second generation RDX with the J35 motor, a 0W-20 synthetic blend is more than sufficient, however, for the third gen with the blown 2.0T motor, only someone who didn't care about the health of the turbine bearings would use a synthetic blend.
#16
Pro
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
Totally agree. As I said in the OP, I favor synthetic, period, and surely will use it in the 2019. I was just sharing the fact there is a synthetic blend 0-20 and Acura recommends and uses it in the second generation RDX six cylinder engines.
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horseshoez (06-25-2018)
#18
Burning Brakes
To the best of my knowledge all 0w-20 oils are, at least, synthetic blends. Consumer Reports also found that to be the case.
"In checking various sources online, we could find no 0W-20-weight oil that wasn't synthetic."
From this article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...cars/index.htm
"In checking various sources online, we could find no 0W-20-weight oil that wasn't synthetic."
From this article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...cars/index.htm
#19
Latent car nut
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To the best of my knowledge all 0w-20 oils are, at least, synthetic blends. Consumer Reports also found that to be the case.
"In checking various sources online, we could find no 0W-20-weight oil that wasn't synthetic."
From this article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...cars/index.htm
"In checking various sources online, we could find no 0W-20-weight oil that wasn't synthetic."
From this article: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...cars/index.htm
#20
Burning Brakes
...I believe it is correct to say, as of 2012 (when the article was published), the only 0W-20 oils on the market were full synthetic. Fast forward to something like 2015 or 2016 (if my addled brain is serving me correctly) and we saw the first entry of a synthetic blend 0W-20 enter the market place.
Yeah, the CRS (Can't Remember Sh1t) Syndrome hits us all eventually. So says the guy who got his driver's license back in 1959 or 1960 - can't remember.
#21
Drifting
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It was probably even before then. I had an '11 Toyota Highlander that used 0W-20 and the Toyota version was a syn-blend back then.
Yeah, the CRS (Can't Remember Sh1t) Syndrome hits us all eventually. So says the guy who got his driver's license back in 1959 or 1960 - can't remember.
Yeah, the CRS (Can't Remember Sh1t) Syndrome hits us all eventually. So says the guy who got his driver's license back in 1959 or 1960 - can't remember.
1966 here....
#22
FWIW: Many cars, mine, for example, operate under (SEVERE) conditions. According to my Owner's Manual, "DRIVING LESS THAN 5 MILES, PER TRIP, OR IN FREEZING TEMPERATURES, DRIVING LESS THAN 10 MILES PER TRIP. DRIVING IN EXTREMELY HOT, OVER 90 DEG. CONDITIONS. ETC." Consequently, the ideal operation , oil change interval recommendation, of 7,500 miles, or one year, is halved, to 3,750 miles, or 6 months, whichever comes first. Most vehicles, I am familiar with, DO NOT, operate, under ideal conditions!
side topic, but is it not good when your daily commute is 2.5 miles one way?
#23
Short trips are considered severe conditions because the oil doesn't get hot enough for long enough to burn off contaminants such as unburned fuel and moisture (which can turn acidic). Worse if winters in your area are very cold.
#24
thanks for the info, the TL has 225k miles on it but my daily commute changed from 95 miles 1 way to 2.9 miles a few months ago, so much so that I didn’t even get 3000 miles in 6 months, but im not too worried about the tl at this point, im waiting for it to bite the bullet.
#25
thanks for the info, the TL has 225k miles on it but my daily commute changed from 95 miles 1 way to 2.9 miles a few months ago, so much so that I didn’t even get 3000 miles in 6 months, but im not too worried about the tl at this point, im waiting for it to bite the bullet.
#26
Suzuka Master
Personally if I owned the car I would be buying my own Mobil 1 and bring it to the dealer. I did that when I owned my Acura’s, they charged like $25 for labor and filter. I lease now so they can use whatever they want. Pure synthetic is the way to go if you plan on owning the cat 100K+ miles.
The fluids are the blood of a car, put less than ideal in and the car will not age well. The 2 things I never skimp on are, fluids (oil, antifreeze, tranny fluid, rear diff) and tires.
The fluids are the blood of a car, put less than ideal in and the car will not age well. The 2 things I never skimp on are, fluids (oil, antifreeze, tranny fluid, rear diff) and tires.
Last edited by KeithL; 06-26-2018 at 03:49 AM.
#27
Suzuka Master
I’ve been using Mobil1 and doing my own oil changes on 2008 rdx since it was new. 170k miles and still counting. I get Mobil1 always on sale. Oil change costs me on average $35 including Mobil1 oil filter and 10min of my time. When I get 2019 rdx will be doing my own oil changes as well.
#28
Latent car nut
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I guess the turbo should heat the oil quite a bit faster due the intense heating of the turbine bearings which are lubed and cooled by the oil. This is also the reason why it is recommended to not shut off a turbo engine immediately after extended high boost conditions, like extended travel on the turnpike and stopping at the service plaza for fuel or food - let the car idle for a few minutes.
#29
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I haven’t checked thiswith the RDX, but my Bimmer will run the cooling system after the engine shuts down when needed. I expect the RDX will do so as well, assuming there is an electric water pump.
#30
mrgold35
I've never notice if my Turbo cooling still happening on my 08 RDX after shutoff? No additional sounds once I turn the engine off (no fans or pump sounds). It gets pretty hot in the southwest and hwy speeds are 75-80 mph. Maybe the intercooler+oil+coolant can keep the turbo temps down where you don't need a turbo timer for the 1st or 3rd Gen RDX?
#31
Suzuka Master
I've never notice if my Turbo cooling still happening on my 08 RDX after shutoff? No additional sounds once I turn the engine off (no fans or pump sounds). It gets pretty hot in the southwest and hwy speeds are 75-80 mph. Maybe the intercooler+oil+coolant can keep the turbo temps down where you don't need a turbo timer for the 1st or 3rd Gen RDX?
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mrgold35 (06-26-2018)
#32
Hello World
I would think a 2.0l engine doesn't get any turbo boost while cruising at 60 mph. Since it has already has more than enough power to do so...
#33
Latent car nut
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#35
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#36
:
"Garrett ball bearing turbochargers require less oil than journal bearing turbos. Therefore an oil inlet restrictor is recommended to achieve an oil pressure of 40-45psi entering the turbocharger for optimal performance. The oil outlet should be plumbed to the oil pan above the oil level (for wet sump systems). Since the oil drain is gravity fed, it is important that the oil outlet points downward, and that the drain tube does not become horizontal or go "uphill" at any point.Following a hot shutdown of a turbocharger, heat soak begins. This means that the heat in the head, exhaust manifold, and turbine housing finds it way to the turbo's center housing, raising its temperature. These extreme temperatures in the center housing can result in oil coking.To minimize the effects of heat soak-back, water-cooled center housings were introduced. These use coolant from the engine to act as a heat sink after engine shutdown, preventing the oil from coking. The water lines utilize a thermal siphon effect to reduce the peak heat soak-back temperature after engine shut down. The layout of the pipes should minimize peaks and troughs with the (cool) water inlet on the low side. To help this along, it is advantageous to tilt the turbocharger about 25° about the axis of shaft rotation."
To my uneducated eye it would seem that the cooling effect of water circulated through a working turbocharger would be minimal. An operating turbine is well over 1000 degrees and water at 16 or so psi boils and turns to steam at much lower temperatures.
Last edited by mgrody; 06-26-2018 at 07:35 PM.
#37
Burning Brakes
FWIW: I'm no OIL EXPERT, but I do know, that oil, essentially, NEVER WEARS OUT! It does, however, become contaminated. Two major contaminants, are CONDENSATION, AND RAW FUEL. A major contributor, to both contaminants, is operating any internal combustion engine, without allowing said engine, to reach normal operating temperature. Based on type of use, for someone driving 2.5 miles, one way, I would consider that, SEVERE SERVICE, and adhere to the FACTORY RECOMMENDATION, of 3,750 miles, or 6 months, assuming the use of Dyno, or Synthetic Blend type oil. It would seem to me, that even if Full Synthetic were used, Water and Raw fuel contamination, would still be a factor. It might be interesting, if one of our fellow members, running Full Synthetic, for One year, or 12K, would be willing to have Blackstone analyze a sample. I would be happy to do the same, just to compare the degree of water, and fuel, in each sample.
#38
Suzuka Master
The MID suposed to detect severe driving and oil change will come up sooner at 3-4k miles. You are over analyzing, just put quality synthetic like mobil1 and change it when MID tells you. Its that simple.
#39
Latent car nut
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Do you have a reference I could take a look at? I've had several turbocharged cars and everything I've read on the subject indicates that the primary purpose of water cooling is to keep the oil that lubricates and cools the turbine bearing from coking from heat soak after engine shutdown. For example, here is a passage I copied from Garrett's website:
:
"Garrett ball bearing turbochargers require less oil than journal bearing turbos. Therefore an oil inlet restrictor is recommended to achieve an oil pressure of 40-45psi entering the turbocharger for optimal performance. The oil outlet should be plumbed to the oil pan above the oil level (for wet sump systems). Since the oil drain is gravity fed, it is important that the oil outlet points downward, and that the drain tube does not become horizontal or go "uphill" at any point.Following a hot shutdown of a turbocharger, heat soak begins. This means that the heat in the head, exhaust manifold, and turbine housing finds it way to the turbo's center housing, raising its temperature. These extreme temperatures in the center housing can result in oil coking.To minimize the effects of heat soak-back, water-cooled center housings were introduced. These use coolant from the engine to act as a heat sink after engine shutdown, preventing the oil from coking. The water lines utilize a thermal siphon effect to reduce the peak heat soak-back temperature after engine shut down. The layout of the pipes should minimize peaks and troughs with the (cool) water inlet on the low side. To help this along, it is advantageous to tilt the turbocharger about 25° about the axis of shaft rotation."
To my uneducated eye it would seem that the cooling effect of water circulated through a working turbocharger would be minimal. An operating turbine is well over 1000 degrees and water at 16 or so psi boils and turns to steam at much lower temperatures.
:
"Garrett ball bearing turbochargers require less oil than journal bearing turbos. Therefore an oil inlet restrictor is recommended to achieve an oil pressure of 40-45psi entering the turbocharger for optimal performance. The oil outlet should be plumbed to the oil pan above the oil level (for wet sump systems). Since the oil drain is gravity fed, it is important that the oil outlet points downward, and that the drain tube does not become horizontal or go "uphill" at any point.Following a hot shutdown of a turbocharger, heat soak begins. This means that the heat in the head, exhaust manifold, and turbine housing finds it way to the turbo's center housing, raising its temperature. These extreme temperatures in the center housing can result in oil coking.To minimize the effects of heat soak-back, water-cooled center housings were introduced. These use coolant from the engine to act as a heat sink after engine shutdown, preventing the oil from coking. The water lines utilize a thermal siphon effect to reduce the peak heat soak-back temperature after engine shut down. The layout of the pipes should minimize peaks and troughs with the (cool) water inlet on the low side. To help this along, it is advantageous to tilt the turbocharger about 25° about the axis of shaft rotation."
To my uneducated eye it would seem that the cooling effect of water circulated through a working turbocharger would be minimal. An operating turbine is well over 1000 degrees and water at 16 or so psi boils and turns to steam at much lower temperatures.
#40
Latent car nut
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FWIW: I'm no OIL EXPERT, but I do know, that oil, essentially, NEVER WEARS OUT! It does, however, become contaminated. Two major contaminants, are CONDENSATION, AND RAW FUEL. A major contributor, to both contaminants, is operating any internal combustion engine, without allowing said engine, to reach normal operating temperature. Based on type of use, for someone driving 2.5 miles, one way, I would consider that, SEVERE SERVICE, and adhere to the FACTORY RECOMMENDATION, of 3,750 miles, or 6 months, assuming the use of Dyno, or Synthetic Blend type oil. It would seem to me, that even if Full Synthetic were used, Water and Raw fuel contamination, would still be a factor. It might be interesting, if one of our fellow members, running Full Synthetic, for One year, or 12K, would be willing to have Blackstone analyze a sample. I would be happy to do the same, just to compare the degree of water, and fuel, in each sample.