jayb5

Just posted a video on the RDX's adaptive cruise control (ACC) and LKAS. I've heard from other Honda owners as well as others that work at Honda that Honda/Acura's adaptive cruise control is fairly conservative relative to other manufacturers (Tesla being on the other extreme in terms of their autopilot feature). It definitely seems that way compared to Hyundai where for those cars, it take a while before the system deactivates when it doesn't sense hands on the steering wheel. Here's the video I made in regards to my RDX.

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Jordster

I'm not sure I understand the point of your video.

The system is working 100% as intended. It's not an amazing system, and far from the most advanced or most autonomous out there, but it doesn't claim to be.

The idea is that it's supposed to "assist" you in keeping the lane. It's really designed to alleviate fatigue on long distance trips, not drive your car for you. You should never for a moment be taking both hands off of the wheel. I can attest to the fact that HondaWatch and AcuraWatch is not even close to the best, but that it nevertheless does a fantastic job reducing driving fatigue. I used LKAS for hours of winding roads in rural Quebec last week and it did so much of the work for me. But you work WITH it, you don't just let it drive for you.

Waetherman

Yes, LKAS sucks. For me, it’s useless. It ping-pongs, it actively tries to drive off the road (and then LDM kicks in and says “Lane Departure!” like I’m the one at fault!) and it tells me “Steering Required” even when I am steering. Maybe because I don’t use both hands at 10/2 all the time like they told me in driver’s ed.

I’m satisfied with the ACC at least, because that does help a lot in slow traffic. But I’m done with LKAS.

Jordster

You don't need to keep your hands at 10 and 2 ... just play along.

I know there are much better systems out there, but if you play along rather than expecting it to steer for you, it works very nicely. I think this feature is very misunderstood. It's not an autonomous car, it's an aid to reduce fatigue on long trips.

jayb5

I made the video as an instructional video first for someone that’s not familiar with ACC or LKAS and how it works. But I also wanted to point out some of the strengths and weaknesses of the system. I agree that it’s first and foremost an “assist” system and no one should rely on it 100 percent to be a fully autonomous solution. However, I believe Acura knows that it’s unrealistic to assume that everyone will have their hands on the steering wheel 100 percent of the time with LKAS and ACC engaged. If they wanted to, they could’ve required drivers to constantly have their hands on with alarms sounding off the second it detects they are no longer holding the wheel. As mentioned in the video, I also agree that the system helps with fatigue. I also wanted to point out the subtle difference between when the car detects lines on the road and when it does not. I should have mentioned this in the video, but there should be a warning when the system disengages. Instead, the tiny LKAS symbol changes ever so slightly and automatically disengages without alerting the driver.

The weaknesses of the system are not a deal breaker for me as that is not the primary reason I purchased the vehicle. I do wish in the future though, that other automakers follow the lead of Tesla in terms of having OTA updates that improve the performance of driver assist functions. I would be more than willing to pay a monthly subscription fee to constantly receive updates not only to the infotainment system (which is becoming irrelevant with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto) but for the improvements in the driver assist system. As a business model, I can see a lot more people willing to subscribe to AcuraLink if it included these types of features. I also do realize that it might not be feasible at this point with older cars given the hardware limitations in terms of radar, camera, lidar, etc.

Jordster

Your comment definitely clears up my confusion.

I still don't think it would be ideal to allow you to keep your hands off the wheel, at least until we reach real level 4 or 5 autonomy. People have died in Teslas while abusing this, or possibly while not understanding that Tesla isn't kidding when they say you still have to pay attention. The Acura system helps with fatigue but you DONT WANT it driving the car for you. We just aren't quite there yet. Hopefully another decade and we will be approaching L4 autonomy and this discussion will seem quaint and historical

Madd Dog

I think adaptive cruise and LKAS works great on long drives.

We drive to Florida in the winter, about 1300 miles door to door. The LKAS and adaptive cruise take a bit of the load off. I keep both hands on the wheel, but it is like driving on an old truck route where there are grooves in the road from the truck tires. It just seems to assist the bend.

DJA123

This is a good description. It helps, but the involvement is mild and limited.

Waetherman

Well it doesn’t describe my experience. I’ll drive with one hand on the wheel lightly steering and the LKAS will do nothing to keep me in lane. It’ll bounce toward the right lane when I’m passing, and it’ll bounce towards the median when I’m in the left lane.

Some may argue I’m “not using it right,” but I’d argue that it’s not executed right. According to Acura’s own marketing videos and compared to all other systems, it’s inferior.

DJA123

I wouldn't argue that it's user error. One of the more consistent themes in here is inconsistent user experiences. My car is quiet, many say theirs is noisy. My ac works well, others says theirs does not. It's common to have suspension squeaks, none for me. I've read about many faults that I don't experience. I think it might be a more logical argument that there is variation from car to car.

DriverOne

The problem with the move towards autonomous driving is that currently we don't have it, which people don't really understand. Particularly with Tesla, the complaint is that the naming of the system as "autopilot" unintentionally causes people to think that it's a self-driving vehicle. That's actually how a few people have died, since they treat Teslas as fully autonomous. The problem is that we're in an in-between phase of autonomous driving, where systems are generally pretty good, but only in certain very specific conditions. Therefore, it becomes difficult for people to pay attention to what is happening. If 98% of the time the car can drive fine on its own in certain conditions, then it is human nature to start getting lazy about watching it for the 2% of the time it needs correction. Basically, that's impossible. Since that is the case, I have never used LKAS or ACC to date in over a year of owning my RDX. As a side-note, I also am completely mystified why people want autonomous vehicles on automotive forums. Certainly, there are some people who would not mind just being driven anywhere from a convenience standpoint, but if you like your car I would imagine that you would like to actually drive it. It would be similar to you buying a car and just riding in the passenger seat for the entire life of the car. I can't personally prevent the march towards autonomous driving, which seems like it's a guarantee at some point, but that will basically mean the death of a large part of the car industry. There's no reason that your car would have to be anything other than something like a SmartCar if it's autonomous, especially since it's quite possible none of us would own our own cars at that point.

JB in AZ

I use LKAS and ACC all the time, and understand what they are and what their limitations are. As others have said, these systems do tend to relieve a bit of the stress of driving. However, the only place I ever have stress when driving, is in stop and go highway driving, and I purposely do not live where these conditions exist. Like you, I do not look forward to the day autonomous cars become commonplace. I enjoy driving and also, like you, don't understand why an enthusiast forum would have anyone looking forward to autonomous cars, except for the advancement of technology, which I am all for. So, contradictions? perhaps...

With all this said, I doubt we will see it anytime soon, as (In my opinion) all cars would have to be autonomous, or none. Besides, I also doubt it will happen in my lifetime. In the meantime, I DO enjoy all the tech goodies, and yes, the safety features. ACC is 90% wonderful. LKAS, 50% wonderful.

DriverOne

The big issue I have with autonomous driving is that the only reason we need it is because a small number of people drive so extraordinarily poorly. Then the entire rest of society has to spend trillions of dollars changing for them. Meanwhile, they're probably the last people who will change over to autonomous driving, since they enjoy threatening the remainder of society with their poor driving. This would include drunk and drugged drivers, aggressive drivers, distracted drivers, and sleepy drivers (to which I will admit I have been once or twice in my lifetime, but I stopped being stupid).

Madd Dog

I think the driving aids work as expected, and I use them frequently. I especially like the radar cruise control as I use CC to keep my speed down, and just let it slow things up when conditions call for it. It took me a while to trust it, but I do, even though I remain vigilant to intercede.

It does not work well when going at highway speed and there is a standstill up ahead, so when I see that, I brake far earlier than the radar would.

JB in AZ

Correct, the ACC will NOT slow your car when the car in front is stopped. The Collision Mitigation system MIGHT attempt to "mitigate" the damage, but may not be able to completely stop you before impact, so yes, you need to apply the brakes when there is a stopped car in your path. This applies at a stop sign or traffic light as well.

DriverOne

That's pretty terrifying that the ACC will not slow your car if the car in front is stopped. I would have made the assumption that it would do that and ended up ramming into a car. That's part of why I don't use ACC or LKAS. I don't feel like discovering these things as my head is entering the windshield.

Madd Dog

Discover them here, and other places where this is discussed.

Too, remember that it is an assist not a replacement. In my previous car, I would tap up and tap down in 1 or 5 mph increments. This works better than that did, but in every case, I am driving, and these things assist the driver, they don’t replace the driver.

Ludepower

Wished I knew this earlier. I thought ACC brakes for you as well. Busy highway traffic with some sudden full stops and the brake warning light would come on. I was paying attention and saved it in time.

When cars infront make sudden stops. How much brake pressure does the car assist you with. Can it fully brake for you? Are there companies that do it better?

DJA123

Yes, to rest assured that anything in AcuraWatch will prevent an accident is misunderstanding the stated purpose. Mitigation is the operative word.

However, I conducted an unintended test in bumper to bumper traffic when I reached into the back seat and my foot came off the brake. The car did bail me out of this stupidity in this walking speed situation.

Madd Dog

ACC has brought me to a full stop in stop and go traffic.

where I don’t trust it is when I am going at highway speed, and I see a stoppage ahead. Just think about how far in front you that you have set the follow distance. That’s all the radar will react to.

JB in AZ

As I understand it, the RDX's ACC will NOT stop the car if the car is in front of you is already completely stopped. The collision mitigation MIGHT. I certainly could be wrong.

Waetherman

ACC will come to a complete stop. It’ll even resume on its own if the car ahead moves again in a short time, but if it’s at a stop for more than say 10 seconds (I haven’t counted) it won’t move again until you tap the “resume” button on CC or tap the accelerator.

JB in AZ

You are correct, but are missing my point. I WILL come to a complete stop if the vehicle in front of you is slowing down then comes to a stop. If you approach a stopped vehicle at a traffic light while using your ACC, it will NOT stop, but the Collision Mitigation MIGHT attempt to avoid a collision...but I am not willing to tempt fate. The car in front needs to be moving. even slowing down, then your RDX will follow it to a stop, and then resume, as you said.

I use ACC every day I drive, even in suburban driving.

JB in AZ

I have read through the Owner's Manual section on ACC, and can't find the part I was looking for about this. The only thing I saw was under "Detection Limitations": " The speed difference between your vehicle and a vehicle or pedestrian in front of you is significantly large."
However, I am about 98% sure the ACC will not stop you if the car in front is already stopped when your vehicle approaches it. (Which I think is consistent with a significant speed difference????)

But now I have about 2% doubt! LOL

4th Acura

Compared to my wife’s 2016 MDX, the LKAS “Hands on the wheel” warning is a longer interval in the RDX. The MDX is approximately 20 seconds and the RDX is roughly 30 seconds. However, LKAS kicks in at a lower speed with the MDX.