Lane Keep Assist System (LKAS) quick to disengage
#1
Lane Keep Assist System (LKAS) quick to disengage
Just posted a video on the RDX's adaptive cruise control (ACC) and LKAS. I've heard from other Honda owners as well as others that work at Honda that Honda/Acura's adaptive cruise control is fairly conservative relative to other manufacturers (Tesla being on the other extreme in terms of their autopilot feature). It definitely seems that way compared to Hyundai where for those cars, it take a while before the system deactivates when it doesn't sense hands on the steering wheel. Here's the video I made in regards to my RDX.
The following users liked this post:
4th Acura (08-04-2020)
#2
I'm not sure I understand the point of your video.
The system is working 100% as intended. It's not an amazing system, and far from the most advanced or most autonomous out there, but it doesn't claim to be.
The idea is that it's supposed to "assist" you in keeping the lane. It's really designed to alleviate fatigue on long distance trips, not drive your car for you. You should never for a moment be taking both hands off of the wheel. I can attest to the fact that HondaWatch and AcuraWatch is not even close to the best, but that it nevertheless does a fantastic job reducing driving fatigue. I used LKAS for hours of winding roads in rural Quebec last week and it did so much of the work for me. But you work WITH it, you don't just let it drive for you.
The system is working 100% as intended. It's not an amazing system, and far from the most advanced or most autonomous out there, but it doesn't claim to be.
The idea is that it's supposed to "assist" you in keeping the lane. It's really designed to alleviate fatigue on long distance trips, not drive your car for you. You should never for a moment be taking both hands off of the wheel. I can attest to the fact that HondaWatch and AcuraWatch is not even close to the best, but that it nevertheless does a fantastic job reducing driving fatigue. I used LKAS for hours of winding roads in rural Quebec last week and it did so much of the work for me. But you work WITH it, you don't just let it drive for you.
The following users liked this post:
NooYawkuh (08-03-2020)
#3
2020 RDX White/Espresso
Yes, LKAS sucks. For me, it’s useless. It ping-pongs, it actively tries to drive off the road (and then LDM kicks in and says “Lane Departure!” like I’m the one at fault!) and it tells me “Steering Required” even when I am steering. Maybe because I don’t use both hands at 10/2 all the time like they told me in driver’s ed.
I’m satisfied with the ACC at least, because that does help a lot in slow traffic. But I’m done with LKAS.
I’m satisfied with the ACC at least, because that does help a lot in slow traffic. But I’m done with LKAS.
#4
Yes, LKAS sucks. For me, it’s useless. It ping-pongs, it actively tries to drive off the road (and then LDM kicks in and says “Lane Departure!” like I’m the one at fault!) and it tells me “Steering Required” even when I am steering. Maybe because I don’t use both hands at 10/2 all the time like they told me in driver’s ed.
I’m satisfied with the ACC at least, because that does help a lot in slow traffic. But I’m done with LKAS.
I’m satisfied with the ACC at least, because that does help a lot in slow traffic. But I’m done with LKAS.
I know there are much better systems out there, but if you play along rather than expecting it to steer for you, it works very nicely. I think this feature is very misunderstood. It's not an autonomous car, it's an aid to reduce fatigue on long trips.
#5
I'm not sure I understand the point of your video.
The system is working 100% as intended. It's not an amazing system, and far from the most advanced or most autonomous out there, but it doesn't claim to be.
The idea is that it's supposed to "assist" you in keeping the lane. It's really designed to alleviate fatigue on long distance trips, not drive your car for you. You should never for a moment be taking both hands off of the wheel. I can attest to the fact that HondaWatch and AcuraWatch is not even close to the best, but that it nevertheless does a fantastic job reducing driving fatigue. I used LKAS for hours of winding roads in rural Quebec last week and it did so much of the work for me. But you work WITH it, you don't just let it drive for you.
The system is working 100% as intended. It's not an amazing system, and far from the most advanced or most autonomous out there, but it doesn't claim to be.
The idea is that it's supposed to "assist" you in keeping the lane. It's really designed to alleviate fatigue on long distance trips, not drive your car for you. You should never for a moment be taking both hands off of the wheel. I can attest to the fact that HondaWatch and AcuraWatch is not even close to the best, but that it nevertheless does a fantastic job reducing driving fatigue. I used LKAS for hours of winding roads in rural Quebec last week and it did so much of the work for me. But you work WITH it, you don't just let it drive for you.
I made the video as an instructional video first for someone that’s not familiar with ACC or LKAS and how it works. But I also wanted to point out some of the strengths and weaknesses of the system. I agree that it’s first and foremost an “assist” system and no one should rely on it 100 percent to be a fully autonomous solution. However, I believe Acura knows that it’s unrealistic to assume that everyone will have their hands on the steering wheel 100 percent of the time with LKAS and ACC engaged. If they wanted to, they could’ve required drivers to constantly have their hands on with alarms sounding off the second it detects they are no longer holding the wheel. As mentioned in the video, I also agree that the system helps with fatigue. I also wanted to point out the subtle difference between when the car detects lines on the road and when it does not. I should have mentioned this in the video, but there should be a warning when the system disengages. Instead, the tiny LKAS symbol changes ever so slightly and automatically disengages without alerting the driver.
The weaknesses of the system are not a deal breaker for me as that is not the primary reason I purchased the vehicle. I do wish in the future though, that other automakers follow the lead of Tesla in terms of having OTA updates that improve the performance of driver assist functions. I would be more than willing to pay a monthly subscription fee to constantly receive updates not only to the infotainment system (which is becoming irrelevant with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto) but for the improvements in the driver assist system. As a business model, I can see a lot more people willing to subscribe to AcuraLink if it included these types of features. I also do realize that it might not be feasible at this point with older cars given the hardware limitations in terms of radar, camera, lidar, etc.
The following users liked this post:
Jordster (08-03-2020)
#6
Your comment definitely clears up my confusion.
I still don't think it would be ideal to allow you to keep your hands off the wheel, at least until we reach real level 4 or 5 autonomy. People have died in Teslas while abusing this, or possibly while not understanding that Tesla isn't kidding when they say you still have to pay attention. The Acura system helps with fatigue but you DONT WANT it driving the car for you. We just aren't quite there yet. Hopefully another decade and we will be approaching L4 autonomy and this discussion will seem quaint and historical
I still don't think it would be ideal to allow you to keep your hands off the wheel, at least until we reach real level 4 or 5 autonomy. People have died in Teslas while abusing this, or possibly while not understanding that Tesla isn't kidding when they say you still have to pay attention. The Acura system helps with fatigue but you DONT WANT it driving the car for you. We just aren't quite there yet. Hopefully another decade and we will be approaching L4 autonomy and this discussion will seem quaint and historical
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#7
Drifting
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: New Yorkie, Hudson Valley
Posts: 3,001
Received 1,025 Likes
on
715 Posts
I think adaptive cruise and LKAS works great on long drives.
We drive to Florida in the winter, about 1300 miles door to door. The LKAS and adaptive cruise take a bit of the load off. I keep both hands on the wheel, but it is like driving on an old truck route where there are grooves in the road from the truck tires. It just seems to assist the bend.
We drive to Florida in the winter, about 1300 miles door to door. The LKAS and adaptive cruise take a bit of the load off. I keep both hands on the wheel, but it is like driving on an old truck route where there are grooves in the road from the truck tires. It just seems to assist the bend.
Trending Topics
#8
I think adaptive cruise and LKAS works great on long drives.
We drive to Florida in the winter, about 1300 miles door to door. The LKAS and adaptive cruise take a bit of the load off. I keep both hands on the wheel, but it is like driving on an old truck route where there are grooves in the road from the truck tires. It just seems to assist the bend.
We drive to Florida in the winter, about 1300 miles door to door. The LKAS and adaptive cruise take a bit of the load off. I keep both hands on the wheel, but it is like driving on an old truck route where there are grooves in the road from the truck tires. It just seems to assist the bend.
#9
2020 RDX White/Espresso
Well it doesn’t describe my experience. I’ll drive with one hand on the wheel lightly steering and the LKAS will do nothing to keep me in lane. It’ll bounce toward the right lane when I’m passing, and it’ll bounce towards the median when I’m in the left lane.
Some may argue I’m “not using it right,” but I’d argue that it’s not executed right. According to Acura’s own marketing videos and compared to all other systems, it’s inferior.
Some may argue I’m “not using it right,” but I’d argue that it’s not executed right. According to Acura’s own marketing videos and compared to all other systems, it’s inferior.
#10
Well it doesn’t describe my experience. I’ll drive with one hand on the wheel lightly steering and the LKAS will do nothing to keep me in lane. It’ll bounce toward the right lane when I’m passing, and it’ll bounce towards the median when I’m in the left lane.
Some may argue I’m “not using it right,” but I’d argue that it’s not executed right. According to Acura’s own marketing videos and compared to all other systems, it’s inferior.
Some may argue I’m “not using it right,” but I’d argue that it’s not executed right. According to Acura’s own marketing videos and compared to all other systems, it’s inferior.
#11
Your comment definitely clears up my confusion.
I still don't think it would be ideal to allow you to keep your hands off the wheel, at least until we reach real level 4 or 5 autonomy. People have died in Teslas while abusing this, or possibly while not understanding that Tesla isn't kidding when they say you still have to pay attention. The Acura system helps with fatigue but you DONT WANT it driving the car for you. We just aren't quite there yet. Hopefully another decade and we will be approaching L4 autonomy and this discussion will seem quaint and historical![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I still don't think it would be ideal to allow you to keep your hands off the wheel, at least until we reach real level 4 or 5 autonomy. People have died in Teslas while abusing this, or possibly while not understanding that Tesla isn't kidding when they say you still have to pay attention. The Acura system helps with fatigue but you DONT WANT it driving the car for you. We just aren't quite there yet. Hopefully another decade and we will be approaching L4 autonomy and this discussion will seem quaint and historical
![Smile](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#12
Drifting
The problem with the move towards autonomous driving is that currently we don't have it, which people don't really understand. Particularly with Tesla, the complaint is that the naming of the system as "autopilot" unintentionally causes people to think that it's a self-driving vehicle. That's actually how a few people have died, since they treat Teslas as fully autonomous. The problem is that we're in an in-between phase of autonomous driving, where systems are generally pretty good, but only in certain very specific conditions. Therefore, it becomes difficult for people to pay attention to what is happening. If 98% of the time the car can drive fine on its own in certain conditions, then it is human nature to start getting lazy about watching it for the 2% of the time it needs correction. Basically, that's impossible. Since that is the case, I have never used LKAS or ACC to date in over a year of owning my RDX. As a side-note, I also am completely mystified why people want autonomous vehicles on automotive forums. Certainly, there are some people who would not mind just being driven anywhere from a convenience standpoint, but if you like your car I would imagine that you would like to actually drive it. It would be similar to you buying a car and just riding in the passenger seat for the entire life of the car. I can't personally prevent the march towards autonomous driving, which seems like it's a guarantee at some point, but that will basically mean the death of a large part of the car industry. There's no reason that your car would have to be anything other than something like a SmartCar if it's autonomous, especially since it's quite possible none of us would own our own cars at that point.
With all this said, I doubt we will see it anytime soon, as (In my opinion) all cars would have to be autonomous, or none. Besides, I also doubt it will happen in my lifetime. In the meantime, I DO enjoy all the tech goodies, and yes, the safety features. ACC is 90% wonderful. LKAS, 50% wonderful.
#13
The big issue I have with autonomous driving is that the only reason we need it is because a small number of people drive so extraordinarily poorly. Then the entire rest of society has to spend trillions of dollars changing for them. Meanwhile, they're probably the last people who will change over to autonomous driving, since they enjoy threatening the remainder of society with their poor driving. This would include drunk and drugged drivers, aggressive drivers, distracted drivers, and sleepy drivers (to which I will admit I have been once or twice in my lifetime, but I stopped being stupid).
#14
Drifting
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: New Yorkie, Hudson Valley
Posts: 3,001
Received 1,025 Likes
on
715 Posts
I think the driving aids work as expected, and I use them frequently. I especially like the radar cruise control as I use CC to keep my speed down, and just let it slow things up when conditions call for it. It took me a while to trust it, but I do, even though I remain vigilant to intercede.
It does not work well when going at highway speed and there is a standstill up ahead, so when I see that, I brake far earlier than the radar would.
It does not work well when going at highway speed and there is a standstill up ahead, so when I see that, I brake far earlier than the radar would.
#15
Drifting
I think the driving aids work as expected, and I use them frequently. I especially like the radar cruise control as I use CC to keep my speed down, and just let it slow things up when conditions call for it. It took me a while to trust it, but I do, even though I remain vigilant to intercede.
It does not work well when going at highway speed and there is a standstill up ahead, so when I see that, I brake far earlier than the radar would.
It does not work well when going at highway speed and there is a standstill up ahead, so when I see that, I brake far earlier than the radar would.
#16
That's pretty terrifying that the ACC will not slow your car if the car in front is stopped. I would have made the assumption that it would do that and ended up ramming into a car. That's part of why I don't use ACC or LKAS. I don't feel like discovering these things as my head is entering the windshield.
#17
Drifting
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: New Yorkie, Hudson Valley
Posts: 3,001
Received 1,025 Likes
on
715 Posts
That's pretty terrifying that the ACC will not slow your car if the car in front is stopped. I would have made the assumption that it would do that and ended up ramming into a car. That's part of why I don't use ACC or LKAS. I don't feel like discovering these things as my head is entering the windshield.
Too, remember that it is an assist not a replacement. In my previous car, I would tap up and tap down in 1 or 5 mph increments. This works better than that did, but in every case, I am driving, and these things assist the driver, they don’t replace the driver.
#18
That's pretty terrifying that the ACC will not slow your car if the car in front is stopped. I would have made the assumption that it would do that and ended up ramming into a car. That's part of why I don't use ACC or LKAS. I don't feel like discovering these things as my head is entering the windshield.
When cars infront make sudden stops. How much brake pressure does the car assist you with. Can it fully brake for you? Are there companies that do it better?
#19
Correct, the ACC will NOT slow your car when the car in front is stopped. The Collision Mitigation system MIGHT attempt to "mitigate" the damage, but may not be able to completely stop you before impact, so yes, you need to apply the brakes when there is a stopped car in your path. This applies at a stop sign or traffic light as well.
However, I conducted an unintended test in bumper to bumper traffic when I reached into the back seat and my foot came off the brake. The car did bail me out of this stupidity in this walking speed situation.
Last edited by DJA123; 08-04-2020 at 11:11 AM.
#20
Drifting
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: New Yorkie, Hudson Valley
Posts: 3,001
Received 1,025 Likes
on
715 Posts
ACC has brought me to a full stop in stop and go traffic.
where I don’t trust it is when I am going at highway speed, and I see a stoppage ahead. Just think about how far in front you that you have set the follow distance. That’s all the radar will react to.
where I don’t trust it is when I am going at highway speed, and I see a stoppage ahead. Just think about how far in front you that you have set the follow distance. That’s all the radar will react to.
#22
2020 RDX White/Espresso
ACC will come to a complete stop. It’ll even resume on its own if the car ahead moves again in a short time, but if it’s at a stop for more than say 10 seconds (I haven’t counted) it won’t move again until you tap the “resume” button on CC or tap the accelerator.
#23
Drifting
I use ACC every day I drive, even in suburban driving.
Last edited by JB in AZ; 08-04-2020 at 06:08 PM.
#24
Drifting
You are correct, but are missing my point. I WILL come to a complete stop if the vehicle in front of you is slowing down then comes to a stop. If you approach a stopped vehicle at a traffic light while using your ACC, it will NOT stop, but the Collision Mitigation MIGHT attempt to avoid a collision...but I am not willing to tempt fate. The car in front needs to be moving. even slowing down, then your RDX will follow it to a stop, and then resume, as you said.
I use ACC every day I drive, even in suburban driving.
I use ACC every day I drive, even in suburban driving.
However, I am about 98% sure the ACC will not stop you if the car in front is already stopped when your vehicle approaches it. (Which I think is consistent with a significant speed difference????)
But now I have about 2% doubt! LOL
#25
Retired Geezer
Compared to my wife’s 2016 MDX, the LKAS “Hands on the wheel” warning is a longer interval in the RDX. The MDX is approximately 20 seconds and the RDX is roughly 30 seconds. However, LKAS kicks in at a lower speed with the MDX.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Mustachio
3G RDX (2019+)
16
01-31-2020 07:21 PM
gavriil
2G CL (2001-2003)
2
03-23-2001 08:57 PM