Honda CR-V Sensing lawsuit says SUVs suddenly stop in the road
01-30-2020, 09:09 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Honda CR-V Sensing lawsuit says SUVs suddenly stop in the road
https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2...nly-stop.shtml
I've experienced this with my RDX so I figured I'd share. This is a very dangerous flaw that Honda/Acura is failing to address.
During the times this happened to me, I had no ability to disengage the automatically applied brake and accelerate. It brakes hard. As a result, I've nearly been rear-ended on multiple occasions.
The whole sensor suite is flawed IMO. Blind Spot Detection doesn't activate until a car is next to mine, ACC brakes too aggressively when approaching a slower vehicle, Lane Keep Assist is terribly unreliable, All sensors disabled during a light rain yet will work in a heavy snow storm. Lose all ability to set cruise control if sensors get disabled.
I've experienced this with my RDX so I figured I'd share. This is a very dangerous flaw that Honda/Acura is failing to address.
During the times this happened to me, I had no ability to disengage the automatically applied brake and accelerate. It brakes hard. As a result, I've nearly been rear-ended on multiple occasions.
The whole sensor suite is flawed IMO. Blind Spot Detection doesn't activate until a car is next to mine, ACC brakes too aggressively when approaching a slower vehicle, Lane Keep Assist is terribly unreliable, All sensors disabled during a light rain yet will work in a heavy snow storm. Lose all ability to set cruise control if sensors get disabled.
01-30-2020, 10:40 AM
#3
Had a similar experience
I had my 2020 RDX Tech 2 weeks, and I had a similar experience. I had ACC and LKAS off (using the MAIN button), and RDM and CMBS were on. When merging onto the freeway, I crossed into the lane from the ramp "early" by crossing over the solid line before it turned into a dashed line. The car braked itself suddenly for a second or 2 and released the brakes when I got into the lane. Luckily, there was no other traffic on the road. If there was, I would have been rear-ended.
None of this was a malfunction, though. Because the car saw a solid line to the left of my vehicle, it thought I was driving off of the road. And because I was letting the car drift into the lane (no obvious steering inputs) with no additional accelerator pedal action, the RMD system engaged as it thought it should. Looking through the owner's manual (page attached) showed me why the system did what it did.
This experience taught me that the AcuraWatch systems are still in the relatively early stages (as are most manufacturer's systems), and that I should be mindful of how they react or I should turn them off. I now leave ACC and LKAS off because I think (FOR ME) they are only useful when I'm on the highway and want to use cruise control. I not turn off RDM in around-town driving because of my experience and I find it unnecessarily intrusive unless I'm cruising on the highway. I do keep CMBS always on because I find it always valuable to do so.
Of course, others may like all or some of the systems on as they see fit. But if the system malfunctions or performs with "dumb" logic that causes an accident, I think lawsuits are warranted.
None of this was a malfunction, though. Because the car saw a solid line to the left of my vehicle, it thought I was driving off of the road. And because I was letting the car drift into the lane (no obvious steering inputs) with no additional accelerator pedal action, the RMD system engaged as it thought it should. Looking through the owner's manual (page attached) showed me why the system did what it did.
This experience taught me that the AcuraWatch systems are still in the relatively early stages (as are most manufacturer's systems), and that I should be mindful of how they react or I should turn them off. I now leave ACC and LKAS off because I think (FOR ME) they are only useful when I'm on the highway and want to use cruise control. I not turn off RDM in around-town driving because of my experience and I find it unnecessarily intrusive unless I'm cruising on the highway. I do keep CMBS always on because I find it always valuable to do so.
Of course, others may like all or some of the systems on as they see fit. But if the system malfunctions or performs with "dumb" logic that causes an accident, I think lawsuits are warranted.
01-30-2020, 01:32 PM
#4
I had my 2020 RDX Tech 2 weeks, and I had a similar experience. I had ACC and LKAS off (using the MAIN button), and RDM and CMBS were on. When merging onto the freeway, I crossed into the lane from the ramp "early" by crossing over the solid line before it turned into a dashed line. The car braked itself suddenly for a second or 2 and released the brakes when I got into the lane. Luckily, there was no other traffic on the road. If there was, I would have been rear-ended.
None of this was a malfunction, though. Because the car saw a solid line to the left of my vehicle, it thought I was driving off of the road. And because I was letting the car drift into the lane (no obvious steering inputs) with no additional accelerator pedal action, the RMD system engaged as it thought it should. Looking through the owner's manual (page attached) showed me why the system did what it did.
This experience taught me that the AcuraWatch systems are still in the relatively early stages (as are most manufacturer's systems), and that I should be mindful of how they react or I should turn them off. I now leave ACC and LKAS off because I think (FOR ME) they are only useful when I'm on the highway and want to use cruise control. I not turn off RDM in around-town driving because of my experience and I find it unnecessarily intrusive unless I'm cruising on the highway. I do keep CMBS always on because I find it always valuable to do so.
Of course, others may like all or some of the systems on as they see fit. But if the system malfunctions or performs with "dumb" logic that causes an accident, I think lawsuits are warranted.
None of this was a malfunction, though. Because the car saw a solid line to the left of my vehicle, it thought I was driving off of the road. And because I was letting the car drift into the lane (no obvious steering inputs) with no additional accelerator pedal action, the RMD system engaged as it thought it should. Looking through the owner's manual (page attached) showed me why the system did what it did.
This experience taught me that the AcuraWatch systems are still in the relatively early stages (as are most manufacturer's systems), and that I should be mindful of how they react or I should turn them off. I now leave ACC and LKAS off because I think (FOR ME) they are only useful when I'm on the highway and want to use cruise control. I not turn off RDM in around-town driving because of my experience and I find it unnecessarily intrusive unless I'm cruising on the highway. I do keep CMBS always on because I find it always valuable to do so.
Of course, others may like all or some of the systems on as they see fit. But if the system malfunctions or performs with "dumb" logic that causes an accident, I think lawsuits are warranted.
Did you use the turn signal signal when merging? Typically, if your signal is on you can cross lanes without RDM/LKAS engaging.
01-30-2020, 02:15 PM
#5
No, I check my mirrors and there was nobody on the highway behind me. I don’t typically signal when merging on the highway if there is no other traffic, and I don’t think most other people do so.
01-30-2020, 02:36 PM
#6
For me, I turn off RDM by changing the setting to "Warning Only" because it interferes my driving unexpectedly when cornering at the limit and positioning the car close to the lane lines....
Last edited by sonyfever; 01-30-2020 at 02:38 PM.
01-30-2020, 02:59 PM
#7
Instructor
Thread Starter
I have not.
I always use my turn signals when changing lanes and merging and have experienced the sudden auto-braking when doing so. Most times, I just do the light lever tap for 3 blinks of the turn signal. Maybe the car is not interpreting that as an indicator for merging and treats the dashed line like it would without a turn signal. It doesn't happen every time though... No consistency makes for a difficult diagnosis.
I always use my turn signals when changing lanes and merging and have experienced the sudden auto-braking when doing so. Most times, I just do the light lever tap for 3 blinks of the turn signal. Maybe the car is not interpreting that as an indicator for merging and treats the dashed line like it would without a turn signal. It doesn't happen every time though... No consistency makes for a difficult diagnosis.
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01-30-2020, 05:00 PM
#8
This car does not read your mind.... in your case, the system does what it is designed to do. I recalled this behavior has been discussed in some other threads, so Acura needs to explain the expected behavior better.
For me, I turn off RDM by changing the setting to "Warning Only" because it interferes my driving unexpectedly when cornering at the limit and positioning the car close to the lane lines....
For me, I turn off RDM by changing the setting to "Warning Only" because it interferes my driving unexpectedly when cornering at the limit and positioning the car close to the lane lines....
01-30-2020, 05:21 PM
#9
Yup turn off the safety system because it interferes with improper driving.
The following 2 users liked this post by markm929:
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01-30-2020, 05:57 PM
#10
Skeptic
I use the turn signals without exception when turning or changing lanes. I don't think about it. And I'm not saving the turn signal for anything or worried about wearing it out.
The following 2 users liked this post by NooYawkuh:
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01-30-2020, 07:44 PM
#11
2020 RDX White/Espresso
01-30-2020, 08:12 PM
#12
Skeptic
01-30-2020, 08:15 PM
#13
I have been driving with the Honda system for about two years now, first on my '17 CR-V, now on my RDX Advanced. What I have learned:
If you are going to merge into traffic, put on the turn signal! The system sees the lines in the road and if you DO NOT signal they think the car is running off the road and the system will react. I don't care if 99% of the people in the world don't signal they are merging, THEY SHOULD! It gets people's attention AND tells your computer you will be crossing over a line and for it to allow that to happen. Just for fun watch the lane guidance lines on your HUD as you cross a line in the road. The one you are crossing will turn color to alert you. When you turn on a turn signal it shuts down detection on the side you are signalling for and the line disappears UNTIL you cross over the line and it confirms that. The car is trying to help you if you let it.
As for the automatic braking: The one in my car has saved at least one life (or at least prevented serious injury). Driving through a little rural college down and this dumb @ss with a headset on looking at his phone screen walked right out into traffic. The system saw him and stopped the car preventing him from major injury. The other times it has suddenly come on is when some idiot cowboy comes flying around me and then quickly cuts in front of the car, nearly hitting me. It will brake hard. As for braking to a sudden halt for no reason....never had it happen. Once or twice I THOUGHT it had happened but it turns out the car was pointed towards a steel guard rail and the car feared I would hit it. Another time there was a big steel cover plate in the road. No system is perfect nor can it read your mind. It is programed to figure the speed of the vehicle, the speed difference between you and the object and .the distance it has to be able to stop the car. At the NTSB has clearly stated while making the case for these systems: No system will be perfect but when considering the reduction of accidents these systems can do its worth it to do this. They know it can't be 100% perfect, no system is. However, when looking at the number of accidents it can prevent, I will accept the very rare case of it over reacting. In my driving I spend a lot of time looking at my rear view mirror. I was hit had in the back end once by some older lady who should not have been driving. An automatic braking system in her car would have saved us both a lot of physical damage and repair costs. I watch my backside as much as my front and work hard to not let people get up on my tail. I will pull over and let the @-hole pass if need be. My neck and back are worth a lot to me.
The one part I would like to see improved is in how smoothly it will slow the car down when approaching another vehicle. It sometimes seems to wait until its close and then brakes hard. Sometimes...all depends on speed difference between the vehicles and how far away I am. BUT, over all I am happy with it and over the past three years I have learned to make it work its best for me. I would not buy another car without these safety systems.
these systems can reduce the systems are worth the rare times when they may over correct."
If you are going to merge into traffic, put on the turn signal! The system sees the lines in the road and if you DO NOT signal they think the car is running off the road and the system will react. I don't care if 99% of the people in the world don't signal they are merging, THEY SHOULD! It gets people's attention AND tells your computer you will be crossing over a line and for it to allow that to happen. Just for fun watch the lane guidance lines on your HUD as you cross a line in the road. The one you are crossing will turn color to alert you. When you turn on a turn signal it shuts down detection on the side you are signalling for and the line disappears UNTIL you cross over the line and it confirms that. The car is trying to help you if you let it.
As for the automatic braking: The one in my car has saved at least one life (or at least prevented serious injury). Driving through a little rural college down and this dumb @ss with a headset on looking at his phone screen walked right out into traffic. The system saw him and stopped the car preventing him from major injury. The other times it has suddenly come on is when some idiot cowboy comes flying around me and then quickly cuts in front of the car, nearly hitting me. It will brake hard. As for braking to a sudden halt for no reason....never had it happen. Once or twice I THOUGHT it had happened but it turns out the car was pointed towards a steel guard rail and the car feared I would hit it. Another time there was a big steel cover plate in the road. No system is perfect nor can it read your mind. It is programed to figure the speed of the vehicle, the speed difference between you and the object and .the distance it has to be able to stop the car. At the NTSB has clearly stated while making the case for these systems: No system will be perfect but when considering the reduction of accidents these systems can do its worth it to do this. They know it can't be 100% perfect, no system is. However, when looking at the number of accidents it can prevent, I will accept the very rare case of it over reacting. In my driving I spend a lot of time looking at my rear view mirror. I was hit had in the back end once by some older lady who should not have been driving. An automatic braking system in her car would have saved us both a lot of physical damage and repair costs. I watch my backside as much as my front and work hard to not let people get up on my tail. I will pull over and let the @-hole pass if need be. My neck and back are worth a lot to me.
The one part I would like to see improved is in how smoothly it will slow the car down when approaching another vehicle. It sometimes seems to wait until its close and then brakes hard. Sometimes...all depends on speed difference between the vehicles and how far away I am. BUT, over all I am happy with it and over the past three years I have learned to make it work its best for me. I would not buy another car without these safety systems.
these systems can reduce the systems are worth the rare times when they may over correct."
The following 4 users liked this post by hans471:
01-30-2020, 08:32 PM
#14
That said, I don’t want my car to brake and cause an accident if I happen to forget to signal when merging onto a highway and cross a bit of solid white line. So Warning Only works best for me.
01-30-2020, 08:42 PM
#15
I have been driving with the Honda system for about two years now, first on my '17 CR-V, now on my RDX Advanced. What I have learned:
If you are going to merge into traffic, put on the turn signal! The system sees the lines in the road and if you DO NOT signal they think the car is running off the road and the system will react. I don't care if 99% of the people in the world don't signal they are merging, THEY SHOULD! It gets people's attention AND tells your computer you will be crossing over a line and for it to allow that to happen. Just for fun watch the lane guidance lines on your HUD as you cross a line in the road. The one you are crossing will turn color to alert you. When you turn on a turn signal it shuts down detection on the side you are signalling for and the line disappears UNTIL you cross over the line and it confirms that. The car is trying to help you if you let it.
As for the automatic braking: The one in my car has saved at least one life (or at least prevented serious injury). Driving through a little rural college down and this dumb @ss with a headset on looking at his phone screen walked right out into traffic. The system saw him and stopped the car preventing him from major injury. The other times it has suddenly come on is when some idiot cowboy comes flying around me and then quickly cuts in front of the car, nearly hitting me. It will brake hard. As for braking to a sudden halt for no reason....never had it happen. Once or twice I THOUGHT it had happened but it turns out the car was pointed towards a steel guard rail and the car feared I would hit it. Another time there was a big steel cover plate in the road. No system is perfect nor can it read your mind. It is programed to figure the speed of the vehicle, the speed difference between you and the object and .the distance it has to be able to stop the car. At the NTSB has clearly stated while making the case for these systems: No system will be perfect but when considering the reduction of accidents these systems can do its worth it to do this. They know it can't be 100% perfect, no system is. However, when looking at the number of accidents it can prevent, I will accept the very rare case of it over reacting. In my driving I spend a lot of time looking at my rear view mirror. I was hit had in the back end once by some older lady who should not have been driving. An automatic braking system in her car would have saved us both a lot of physical damage and repair costs. I watch my backside as much as my front and work hard to not let people get up on my tail. I will pull over and let the @-hole pass if need be. My neck and back are worth a lot to me.
The one part I would like to see improved is in how smoothly it will slow the car down when approaching another vehicle. It sometimes seems to wait until its close and then brakes hard. Sometimes...all depends on speed difference between the vehicles and how far away I am. BUT, over all I am happy with it and over the past three years I have learned to make it work its best for me. I would not buy another car without these safety systems.
these systems can reduce the systems are worth the rare times when they may over correct."
If you are going to merge into traffic, put on the turn signal! The system sees the lines in the road and if you DO NOT signal they think the car is running off the road and the system will react. I don't care if 99% of the people in the world don't signal they are merging, THEY SHOULD! It gets people's attention AND tells your computer you will be crossing over a line and for it to allow that to happen. Just for fun watch the lane guidance lines on your HUD as you cross a line in the road. The one you are crossing will turn color to alert you. When you turn on a turn signal it shuts down detection on the side you are signalling for and the line disappears UNTIL you cross over the line and it confirms that. The car is trying to help you if you let it.
As for the automatic braking: The one in my car has saved at least one life (or at least prevented serious injury). Driving through a little rural college down and this dumb @ss with a headset on looking at his phone screen walked right out into traffic. The system saw him and stopped the car preventing him from major injury. The other times it has suddenly come on is when some idiot cowboy comes flying around me and then quickly cuts in front of the car, nearly hitting me. It will brake hard. As for braking to a sudden halt for no reason....never had it happen. Once or twice I THOUGHT it had happened but it turns out the car was pointed towards a steel guard rail and the car feared I would hit it. Another time there was a big steel cover plate in the road. No system is perfect nor can it read your mind. It is programed to figure the speed of the vehicle, the speed difference between you and the object and .the distance it has to be able to stop the car. At the NTSB has clearly stated while making the case for these systems: No system will be perfect but when considering the reduction of accidents these systems can do its worth it to do this. They know it can't be 100% perfect, no system is. However, when looking at the number of accidents it can prevent, I will accept the very rare case of it over reacting. In my driving I spend a lot of time looking at my rear view mirror. I was hit had in the back end once by some older lady who should not have been driving. An automatic braking system in her car would have saved us both a lot of physical damage and repair costs. I watch my backside as much as my front and work hard to not let people get up on my tail. I will pull over and let the @-hole pass if need be. My neck and back are worth a lot to me.
The one part I would like to see improved is in how smoothly it will slow the car down when approaching another vehicle. It sometimes seems to wait until its close and then brakes hard. Sometimes...all depends on speed difference between the vehicles and how far away I am. BUT, over all I am happy with it and over the past three years I have learned to make it work its best for me. I would not buy another car without these safety systems.
these systems can reduce the systems are worth the rare times when they may over correct."
I think these systems will only become more valuable as they get “smarter.” Seeing Tesla’s more advanced system in action is already quite impressive.
01-31-2020, 06:25 PM
#16
LoL I can only say I made good use of my tires. It was actually quite scary when I held a line steady to maintain balance, and suddenly the car braked and nudged its head inwards. I wanted to believe VSA had it all figured out when RDM kicked in, but what if the RDM correction ended up losing rear traction? When set to warning only, RDM becomes Lane Departure Warning, which is still quite effective a safeguard for me.
01-31-2020, 07:21 PM
#17
Pro
I have been driving with the Honda system for about two years now, first on my '17 CR-V, now on my RDX Advanced. What I have learned:
If you are going to merge into traffic, put on the turn signal! The system sees the lines in the road and if you DO NOT signal they think the car is running off the road and the system will react. I don't care if 99% of the people in the world don't signal they are merging, THEY SHOULD! It gets people's attention AND tells your computer you will be crossing over a line and for it to allow that to happen. Just for fun watch the lane guidance lines on your HUD as you cross a line in the road. The one you are crossing will turn color to alert you. When you turn on a turn signal it shuts down detection on the side you are signalling for and the line disappears UNTIL you cross over the line and it confirms that. The car is trying to help you if you let it.
As for the automatic braking: The one in my car has saved at least one life (or at least prevented serious injury). Driving through a little rural college down and this dumb @ss with a headset on looking at his phone screen walked right out into traffic. The system saw him and stopped the car preventing him from major injury. The other times it has suddenly come on is when some idiot cowboy comes flying around me and then quickly cuts in front of the car, nearly hitting me. It will brake hard. As for braking to a sudden halt for no reason....never had it happen. Once or twice I THOUGHT it had happened but it turns out the car was pointed towards a steel guard rail and the car feared I would hit it. Another time there was a big steel cover plate in the road. No system is perfect nor can it read your mind. It is programed to figure the speed of the vehicle, the speed difference between you and the object and .the distance it has to be able to stop the car. At the NTSB has clearly stated while making the case for these systems: No system will be perfect but when considering the reduction of accidents these systems can do its worth it to do this. They know it can't be 100% perfect, no system is. However, when looking at the number of accidents it can prevent, I will accept the very rare case of it over reacting. In my driving I spend a lot of time looking at my rear view mirror. I was hit had in the back end once by some older lady who should not have been driving. An automatic braking system in her car would have saved us both a lot of physical damage and repair costs. I watch my backside as much as my front and work hard to not let people get up on my tail. I will pull over and let the @-hole pass if need be. My neck and back are worth a lot to me.
The one part I would like to see improved is in how smoothly it will slow the car down when approaching another vehicle. It sometimes seems to wait until its close and then brakes hard. Sometimes...all depends on speed difference between the vehicles and how far away I am. BUT, over all I am happy with it and over the past three years I have learned to make it work its best for me. I would not buy another car without these safety systems.
these systems can reduce the systems are worth the rare times when they may over correct."
If you are going to merge into traffic, put on the turn signal! The system sees the lines in the road and if you DO NOT signal they think the car is running off the road and the system will react. I don't care if 99% of the people in the world don't signal they are merging, THEY SHOULD! It gets people's attention AND tells your computer you will be crossing over a line and for it to allow that to happen. Just for fun watch the lane guidance lines on your HUD as you cross a line in the road. The one you are crossing will turn color to alert you. When you turn on a turn signal it shuts down detection on the side you are signalling for and the line disappears UNTIL you cross over the line and it confirms that. The car is trying to help you if you let it.
As for the automatic braking: The one in my car has saved at least one life (or at least prevented serious injury). Driving through a little rural college down and this dumb @ss with a headset on looking at his phone screen walked right out into traffic. The system saw him and stopped the car preventing him from major injury. The other times it has suddenly come on is when some idiot cowboy comes flying around me and then quickly cuts in front of the car, nearly hitting me. It will brake hard. As for braking to a sudden halt for no reason....never had it happen. Once or twice I THOUGHT it had happened but it turns out the car was pointed towards a steel guard rail and the car feared I would hit it. Another time there was a big steel cover plate in the road. No system is perfect nor can it read your mind. It is programed to figure the speed of the vehicle, the speed difference between you and the object and .the distance it has to be able to stop the car. At the NTSB has clearly stated while making the case for these systems: No system will be perfect but when considering the reduction of accidents these systems can do its worth it to do this. They know it can't be 100% perfect, no system is. However, when looking at the number of accidents it can prevent, I will accept the very rare case of it over reacting. In my driving I spend a lot of time looking at my rear view mirror. I was hit had in the back end once by some older lady who should not have been driving. An automatic braking system in her car would have saved us both a lot of physical damage and repair costs. I watch my backside as much as my front and work hard to not let people get up on my tail. I will pull over and let the @-hole pass if need be. My neck and back are worth a lot to me.
The one part I would like to see improved is in how smoothly it will slow the car down when approaching another vehicle. It sometimes seems to wait until its close and then brakes hard. Sometimes...all depends on speed difference between the vehicles and how far away I am. BUT, over all I am happy with it and over the past three years I have learned to make it work its best for me. I would not buy another car without these safety systems.
these systems can reduce the systems are worth the rare times when they may over correct."
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