Jay4Pay

I expected an all new generation of the RDX, but it seems as if Honda will let it stay around a bit longer. If this is suggestive of a 2025 model year being a 2nd refresh, this could mean that it at least stays around until 2027. I’m hoping that this isn’t a sign that Acura will make the next RDX all EV. Hopefully it at least stays around for another generation as a ICE vehicle.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Acura/s/7XFiAkHua7

ELIN

For a company as small as Acura, this is the only strategic move they can make w/o pouring a lot of money into more R&D. They will milk it until the well runs dry!
What this also means is that the current TT infotainment and ELS sound system may hang on a bit more (unless Acura can easily retrofit the newer Android car OS and B&O system into the newer cars).

Folks are already saying the current X3 is a bit long in the tooth so I can't imagine what they'll say about the MY25+ RDXs when they come out.

Jay4Pay

I agree, MDX and Integra will always get the majority of Acura’s tiny R&D budget as they share platforms and components with many high volume Honda vehicles, which soaks up any R&D put into them. Unlike the TLX and RDX who have most components unique to themselves.

Controversial take, but if I was Acura, I’d abandon the TLX and invest more development resources into the RDX. The TLX is very uncompetitive and they’ll never see a return on it. The Integra is already a smaller car than the TLX on the outside and yet has more interior space.

ELIN

Normally I'd agree w/you but the Integra and the TLX serve different markets. This is not an example of the Altima slowly getting bigger over time making the Maxima obsolete (similar w/Camry making the Avalon obsolete) as those cars served very similar markets.

The Integra is the practical daily driver w/some family needs.

The TLX is the impractical "sporty" car w/the looks and presence that the Integra can't touch. Unless I'm mistaken, nearly every person saying the back seat is too tight and has family needs has been told to get an RDX by the dealer and/or AZ member (only exception was a dude from Europe who hasn't learned that in the States, bigger is better!). Oh, and before anyone argues the TLX is not impractical, ask how Type S owners are dealing w/the brace behind the back seat when trying to put in large objects!

Jay4Pay

The TLX sales in tiny numbers and is outsold by the Integra by 2+ times. Honda is raking in money from the Integra as it shares a platform with the Civic, Accord, HR-V, and the CR-V, so any R&D invested into the Integra is soaked up by those HUGE global sellers. The TLX has its own bespoke platform per Acura and they’ll never see returns on it. RDX also has its unique platform but it’s a SUV that that’d sale in decent numbers. The TLX does look very good (Better than Integra), but that’s about all I’ll give it. It’s heavy, underpowered, and small.

ELIN

Due to the "sunk cost fallacy", I don't see Acura walking away from the TLX any time soon. I'm sure the TLX was a platform of pride as demonstrated by the earlier, cheesy anime internet commercials and won't be killed off easily.

Acura doesn't make a lot of what I consider smart business decisions so "business as usual" is more likely than reducing the sedan portfolio.

mrgold35

So far, the Acura RDX has stuck with 6 model years for the first 3 gens (MDX has gone 7 model years the last few Gens). I think Acura might be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't make an all new 4th Gen 2025 RDX. A lot of features, luxury, HP/TQ, and tech on the 19-24 RDX can be found on current newer lower brands like Toyota, Kia/Hyundai, or Mazda. The mid-size $35k-$55k CUV/SUV market is seems to be the most crowed I've seen in years with luxury, tech, features, engine choices, hybrids, EVs. I already think Acura is losing sales by not having an entry level sedan/CUV combo the Integra/CDX like you have with TLX/RDX now and previous Gen MDX/RLX.

The wife and I are thinking about jumping ship to Lexus Hybrid in a few years if Acura still refuses to make a hybrid in RDX or MDX flavors.

Twism86

There are still a lot of older generation RDXs on the road. IMO I dont see why Acura will pour millions into the development of a new model until they can get previous owners to upgrade to the newest one. As long as the interior tech slowly advances with the exterior staying the same its a cheap way to refresh and improve without a huge investment. Im too lazy to look up sales numbers and I really dont care, but if its selling then why make a change?

Acura already used the KISS business model, Keep It Simple Stupid! What other car manufacturer only makes 4 models? If you walk into a showroom you first decide on a sedan or SUV, then do you want the bigger one or the smaller one? Simple.

Texasrdx21

Agree - KISS business model is what makes Tesla able to scale. A few slight updates, but overall most models are 4+ years old. Acura like most mfg's are between a "rock and a hard place", as pure EV sales/demand have stalled, dealers have ample EV inventory (100+ days and growing) and used values are getting hit hard.

To survive in this ever changing economy - mfg's will build vehicles that are profitable and reliable. My guess is Honda/Acura will follow Toyota/Lexus and integrate more Hybrids (for economy + performance) in the next few years.

swttsx007

Eek... I was really hoping for a 25 model refresh. Now, I am not sure what I am going to do. I currently have a 23 TLX Type S that I was planning on dumping for the 25 model. Bummer!

ELIN

I’m calling BS on Acura’s claim that all their cars will have a Type S. The MY25 RDX was an opportunity to introduce a new gen with a bigger engine bay to accommodate the V6.

By the way, BMW has a 2.99% APR right now but you have to take delivery this month. Acura dropped the ball so do what you have to do!

Texasrdx21

Why do you want a V6 option? A Turbo 4 combined with a Hybrid unit will be best for performance and mpg.

ELIN

Acura killed off the Sport Hybrid a number of years ago and put all their eggs in the EV basket. I don’t expect an Acura hybrid to come back.

Why do I want a V6 option? I don’t have any skin in the game so I could care less. I know a number of AZ members were waiting for an RDX Type S so you’ll hear from them sooner or later!

mvl

While Acura killed off hybrids, Honda is targeting 50% of units as hybrid sales. So it isn't like they don't have somethong off the shelf if they change their mind.

I still feel the ZDX was supposed to be the 4th gen RDX, with a late change in plans probably as GM had supply delays and EV predicted sales started dropping.

Agree that an all new bespoke RDX doesn't make sense at this point. However upping the power and suspension on a Hybrid CRV, plus Acura interiors and sheet metal, would sell very well as a 2025 RDX.

anoop

The new Camry and the current UX are hybrid-only. I wouldn't be surprised if more of the Toyota/Lexus lineup moves in that direction. At least Honda seems to be scrambling to move in the right direction. Acura needs to do the same.

Texasrdx21

The new 2024 Toyota Tacoma and Land Cruiser will be Hybrid for performance and economy. Hyundai and Kia have several Hybrid offerings (Kona, Sorento, Sportage, Santa Fe and Tucson). Plenty of other MFG's are filling in there line-ups to meet consumer demand.

Wish Acura would revamp the RDX, reduced the petrol engine to 1.8L turbo, add a mid- mounted hybrid unit for performance and some economy. If it average 30MPG in the city (similar to the LEXUS RX 500h F SPORT) - have 300+hp, 380 torque or more - that would be sweet! They already have the proven technology from the NSX, CRV Hybrid and F1 - that would make a terrific, reliable package.

My bet is that you will see more of these options in the future, as the light switch thrust to go to 100% EV has not been embraced by the consumer with the limited charging infrastructure, high vehicle cost, low range in less than ideal conditions and battery technology. Plus, electrical cost have been rising quickly - as that is what happened in the UK - where it now cost a lot more to run a EV than petrol. Ev's will be part of the future, but all consumers want choices and options.

supafamous

I don't fully get Honda's R&D investment choices - I get they are way behind on EVs and need to put a lot of money into it but ICE isn't going away anytime soon and they seem to have stopped virtually all ICE related development which leaves them with just one hybrid powertrain (the one in the CR-V/Accord). I would imagine they could scale that powertrain up by swapping in the 2.4L K-engine and upsizing the electric motors so that it could be used in heavier applications - make it the hybrid option for the RDX, Pilot, Odyssey etc - that can't be THAT expensive an investment for them and it would fit in so many of their cars and likely deliver over 30mpg.

MJ4RDX

I would gladly trade-in/up for a hybrid RDX

markm929

It would be great if they brought back the sport-hybrid setup for a RDX Type S. But I think the 2025 RDX will signal it's ride into the sunset, over a couple years, as an ICE model. Acura going full on into EV was a mistake that will take more time to backtrack from to get to hybrids. An unfortunate bet that, I think, was placed way too soon.

mrgold35

I think Acura really needs to update the 10 year old and already paid for MDX/RLX/NSX Sport Hybrid powertrain with more hp/tq for the 3 electric motors and include a larger battery pack for a plug-in version Sport Hybrid. It was around 400lbs for the 65hp/70tq Sport Hybrid system; but, you also subtracted around 200lbs for the mechanical sh-awd hardware (200lb weight gain above a mechanical sh-awd version). Acura just needs to trade out the 7DCT because you can't tow with it for those that need that option.

The Honda hybrid system is a little different because the gas engine is really an electric power generator only for the single gear electric motor at city speeds (regen braking and gas motor to recharge battery pack for EV functions). The gas engine doesn't provide power to the ground until you hit hwy speeds compared to the Acura Sport Hybrid or Toyota system. Power is switched from the gas powered electric generator role to a direct "power to the wheels" traditional motor +55mph (only one gear available similar to 6th for this direct gas mode).

If Acura copied the Honda system, it would mean you have larger displacement/turbo gas engine that uses more gas in mostly electric generator mode in city driving. No real advantage with Honda or Acura using a more powerful gas engine with the Honda hybrid system until you get to hwy speeds and use the gas motor only.

anoop

If they bring hybrids the dealer will make sure they tack on enough of a markup that it becomes uneconomical to own one unless you drive a lot, like > 20k miles a year and provided gas prices stay high. The local Lexus dealer made the NX hybrid so unattractive that you had to be desperate to pay for it. When gas prices were at their peak they were asking $5k markup. Assume 40 mpg vs 20 mpg for regular. 1000 gallons at $5/gallon (20k miles) means you save $2500 a year. If you drive 10k miles like I do, it’s $1250. I did this to make calculations easy. If most of the driving is highway the savings won’t be as much.

As far as Acura’s strategy — can’t really blame them because we have had governments flip flopping. They probably had to choose between hybrid and performance and chose performance because that’s the way the world was leaning at the time. And they are not as nimble as the Germans. At least they seem to be designing better cars — more attractive, better AWD, better transmission, suspension, etc. The engines aren’t that great and reliability needs work.

mrgold35

I think this was why the Acura MDX Sport Hybrid system was such a steal at $1500 above a similar 3.5L sh-awd Tech or Adv MDX. I paid even less than $1500 back in March of 2019 back when you got the "normal" end of the model run of $4500-$6000 discounts off MSRP. I have +50,000 miles and I broken even on gas and cost a long time ago compared to usual $5000-$10,000 normal hybrid/PHEV markups with other manufacturers. I get similar combined mpgs, improved handling, and way better performance in my 4500lbs MDX Adv Sport Hybrid compared to my old 06 TSX 5AT Aspec with Progress RSB.

jmhumr

200% agree. Lots of folks are clamoring for a V6, but I think sport-hybrid would be a step above and more practical from a business standpoint.

I’m curious though, why do you think they went full EV? The ZDX is a half assed joint venture with GM. I haven’t seen a lot of details on what Acura is doing next.

anoop

They went full EV because that’s what most of European brands have been doing and also because of incentives in many countries favoring EVs. On the performance side, EV is what makes most sense. It’s laughable seeing $500k+ hypercars that are hard to get in and out of, make a lot of noise, are super impractical for daily driving getting outrun by a Model S Plaid.

Of course, if governments back track the automakers are screwed. This is where government has failed not just auto makers but also the energy sector. Oil companies don’t want to drill because they are being labelled as dirty and renewable guys can’t build because financing has gotten too expensive. They need to be clear on what the direction is and maintain consistency across changes in leadership.

jmhumr

I understand why the EV situation is what it is.

My question is why anyone would have the impression that Acura has aggressively invested to this point. Their plan calls for a complete EV lineup by 2040, which is behind many other brands despite having a tiny lineup. They’ve probably invested the least of just about any brand, so I question the comments in this thread about sunk cost impeding a smarter Acura shift toward hybrids.

Also, it’s worth noting that Honda and Toyota have publicly shunned full-EV strategies and are leaning back into hybrids and other tech. It’s really only the US and Europe that have overly committed to the cringey lithium-ion EV craze.

mrgold35

It seems the lithium battery+electric motor is the best tech we have right now for eventual transition for overall carbon neutral power. I see electric motors being the future; but, powering the electric motors is the major issue. No one complains about the hp/tq, handling, and performance of EV motors. Everyone complains about the EV cost, lack of EV range because current battery technology, vehicle/battery weight, and the lack of reliable (carbon neutral) charging infrastructure. No one would complain about EVs right now if they drove a minimal 1000-1500 miles per charge, cost the exact same or less than a petrol version, vehicle weight under gas version, cost per mile cheaper than a petrol version, and it took the same amount of time as filling a 18 gallon gas tank to fully charge for another +1000 miles of range.

We are not going to get there unless we take these first baby steps. The final end results of EVs is not for us currently living just like no-one wants a Ford Model T in 2023 as a daily driver. The tech has to start somewhere, have constant improvement, expansion of EV infrastructure, spin of industries to support EVs, and mistakes will be made along the way with improvements.

The main complaint I have is having a hard transition from petrol to EV without hybrid/PHEV version in-between for a few decades of overlap and choice.

anoop

China too.
https://www.technologyreview.com/202...c-cars-policy/

supafamous

Honda (and Acura) did an about face earlier this year on EVs and have a lot of catching up to do: https://insideevs.com/news/655818/ho...v-development/

I assume the announcement is out a year late in the sense that in 2022 they were already making the switch over in planning - this is what is pulling engineers off their ICE related work (specifically hybrids where there's a overlap on expertise).

Honda and Toyota are still somewhat hedging bets in their own market though - Japan isn't really pursuing EVs as their strategy, the country isn't getting behind it and are interested in alternatives like hydrogen and fuel cells.

fiatlux

In the premium space, Alfa has a 3 car lineup, Lincoln has 4, Buick has 3, and Infiniti has 4.5. I’m not quite so sure a small lineup is pro.

ELIN

Ok, you tell me if this is "sunk cost fallacy":

1) Acura invests heavily into Sport Hybrid technology. Offers some cars and then gives up after a couple of years. By all means, Acura was early to market w/mild hybrid but also gave up too early (hindsight being 20/20).

2) Acura doubles down on ICE w/Type S offerings. Pandemic strikes, impacting global supply chains. Between that and the dire climate change news, ICE tech begins to look less attractive.

3) Already in Honda/Acura's pipeline, Acura announces they are going straight to EVs and requires a partnership w/GM to get started (there is no mention of hybrids). EV sales start to tank despite government subsidies due to lack of infrastructure and range w/current battery technologies.

Using Honda's current straight hybrid isn't going to fly for Acura's "performance" aspirations so the smart thing to do is for Acura to bring back the Sport Hybrid. None of us here expect Acura to do so.

If Acura's not concerned about the "sunk cost", why not simply bring back the Sport Hybrid and prove me (and many others) wrong? This is the equivalent of an NBA team drafting a bad player as a top 5 pick and continuing to play him when benching him would make more sense!

Texasrdx21

Every mfg is rethinking the massive push to EV to survive in this ever changing climate. Most are loosing billions on the switch and now the consumers demand has significantly slowed. 18 months ago there were huge waiting times to get a EV, now dealers are seeing huge waiting times to move EV’s sitting on the lot they hold in inventory. Basically, FOMO and hoopla of 2021-2022 are gone, reality is hitting hard.

My bet is most that we’re not “pure ev” to start, will refocus on putting more hybrid offering in their line-up. Honda could easily use the RDX 2.0t engine and add there proven hybrid tech. Tune some models for more “performance”, with a much needed balance of increasing city mpg by 30+%. Honda has the technology already, so it should be an easy transition.

jmhumr

Sunk cost fallacy means you’re reluctant to change after you’ve already made investments, but you laid out points that show Acura keeps changing directions. So I would not consider that an example of sunk cost fallacy.

And I don’t expect them to use Honda’s slow ass hybrid tech. I hold out hope that they refresh the sport hybrid system, as you described.

Jordster

I don't understand why so many of you think a new RDX would be irrelevant. It's a very solid niche car that serves three very lucrative spots in the market:

1. Those who might otherwise buy a handling/performance oriented entrant like the X3, but want to save substantial money
2. Those who might otherwise buy a Lexus RX, but want to save substantial money
3. Those who still foolishly believe Honda to be A+ in reliability (and suckers like me who know better but keep buying Hondas anyway).

There is no other car on the market that has the following features for anywhere close to the same price as a loaded RDX:

• Adaptive suspension
• Mechanical, torque vectoring Limited Slip Differential
• HUD
• Heated and cooled 16-way power seats with memory on all 8 variables
• A focus on handling

To get the first 2 on an X3 now requires an upgrade to M40i (ends up being CAD90k, vs CAD60k for a slower, less nice, but equally equipped RDX). And BMWs don't have ACC/LKAS if you don't pay extra (and very few in-stock models have it for some reason). And BMWs don't have seats with memory on the thigh cushion, and makes you choose between vented seats OR seats with adjustable side bolsters. RX can't be upgraded to these features on a base model either, and require 500h model and F-Sport 3, bringing the price up over $90k as well. The RX is also larger with substantially less cargo space (due to prioritizing design over function, which is ironic, cause I think it's hideous...).

This is why I'm having so much trouble deciding on my next car. The RDX provides so much ... if only it had modern entertainment, hadn't destroyed my confidence already by needing 4 extended visits to the shop in 3 years, trying to kill me thanks for a flaw Acura knows about, etc. etc. I mean the Genesis GV70 probabably comes the closest, but it still doesn't hold as much, is even worse on gas, and you need the THIRSTY V6 to get the better performance features.

(And by the way - if you want to tell me RDX doesn't handle as well as I think, I sure hope you've already changed your wheels and tires because every single wheel and tire that is available with the RDX lets it down).

anoop

All cars bring some differentiator. Acura's most visible differentiator is being the value play in this segment. You may pay more for others but you also get more (whether in the quality of materials, usability of infotainment, etc.). If you want an EV, Tesla is best (there's nothing better to move to for a Tesla owner). Or if you want hybrid, then Lexus is best (and if you're a Lexus owner there are really no other viable options). RDX has a place but sales numbers don't lie and there many outselling it.

ELIN

You've already been fleeced by fuel economy so might as well double down and get that GV70!

If you want another premium alternative, the upcoming Mazda CX-70 looks promising (especially paired w/the inline 6!).

quikj

Couldn't agree with this more. These + the K20 are the exact reasons why I bought the RDX. There's nothing else with this combination of features on the market for anything close to the money. My dad has an X3 M40i and his car lacks features that I have standard. Btw, I came from a 2013 X3. It also helps that it looks amazing.

Texasrdx21

It's a good, solid package. Best parts by far are the seats and SHawd. It's a "sporty SUV", not a "sports SUV" - there is a big difference. The HUD and adjustable suspension on the Advance Aspec to me is not worth the significant up tick in price. Love my 2021 Aspec standard suspension and don't need more electronics to break post warranty time frame.

However, the model is a bit long in the tooth - 6 years running with just minor updates and a facelift in 2022. Hoping Acura embraces the petrol/hybrid technology in 2025, as pure electric (based on a very expensive and low range Cadillac product).

ELIN

SHAWD didn't do a whole lot for TLX sales. The Integra w/o SHAWD outsold it better than 2:1 this past month and better than 3:1 a year ago (it's a different story when comparing RDX to MDX)!

Acura needs to get rid of SHAWD to reduce weight and increase fuel economy but they would also be losing their identity. I don't see Acura changing any time soon!

Texasrdx21

Better ways to increase fuel economy without getting rid of the awesome SHawd. Look at those Honda CRV sales #'s, a high % are for the Hybrid model. Intergrading a Hybrid performance model into the RDX line up with a new design would wake up the model.

ELIN

We're all agreeing hybrid options would boost Acura sales. I don't think current leadership wants to admit they killed off the Sport Hybrid early. A great example of "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" if you ask me!