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I am wanting to build this look and am a total noob. Please tell me if you see lowering here.
My whip is a stock 2012 wagon, white. Grocery getter / surf wagon / appliance (that is saving stupid errand miles being put on a LandCruiser and a BMW). Not a racer, but I really HATE the OEM wheels. My tires will be done very soon and I'll do suspension if I have to (to get this look), but at 30k miles I'm happy for now to keep the OEM squish and just upgrade wheels at this point.
These are (I believe) 17" TL type S wheels.
Looking at specs I'm seeing OEM for my 2012 at 17x7.5 and the TL type S are 17x8. Also, published bolt pattern is showing as 115mm for OEM (??) and 114.3mm for TL type S. Doesn't seem compatible. I know these wheels fit Gen1 TSXs, but despite the photo uncertain about Gen 2 (the tsx wagon is I believe Gen2 only?) What am I missing?
Last, offset for OEM is 55 and TL type S are 45. I don't know what that means from a spacing standpoint. Like I said - I'm a noob...
Type S wheels fit no problem. They only stick out like 20mm further than the stock TSX wheels.
I slapped a set on real quick just to see for myself. They still are just a little bit too sunken in for my preference, but they're a step in the right direction. IMO, the're also a little too small. If they were 18's I think they'd be just right.
Note, the suspension wasn't settled in the pictures with the Type S, so the front still sits a little high, plus the tires are a bit smaller profile so that also adds to the gap.
All in all, if you can find a set for cheap (good luck!) and are okay with the 17x8 size, I say go for it.
Cu2wagon - GREAT info thanks. A few questions you've no doubt considered:
1) can spacers be added to continue to push the wheels out toward flush?
2) the type S wheels I've seen are all 17", I am *assuming* the ones in the pic I posted are also 17"?
3) if so, the goal is to put OEM-aspect rubber on them (thinking this might fill out some of the gap), but I could be smoking crack as going from a 7.5" width OEM to 8" width on 17s probably means dropping a size on tire aspect?
4) If you think the car I posted is lowered, what would be your guess on amount? I have a car with M-suspension already and this one is my errand-girl, do definitely not wanting to DROP it. IF I need to lower it so it doesn't look like an Outback so be it, but the goal here would be to keep sidewall on the tires and firm it up a tad, so am very interested in your suggestions as to lowering that might achieve this (and though they are a perfect adjustable solutions I'm trying to avoid the $$$ of coilovers).
1) Absolutely. Two schools of thought here to get a more flush look: a) Add spacers, b) get a different offset wheel.
- I've personally always been in the b) camp but the longer I'm exposed to the HondAcura world here on AZine, the more I'm seeing spacers being used with very little to no ill-affect. I'm still not 100% sold on using them for racing applications, but since 99.9% of the time the application isn't racing... I'm starting to come around to the idea of just adding spacers.
2) Yes. All of those OEM Type S wheels are 17". WedsSport used to make a *very* similar design (TC005) that you could get in an 18" but those have long been discontinued and are quite $$$$ if you can find a set. If you're buying a set of Acura (Enkei made) OEM TL Type S wheels, they're all going to be 17".
3) You can dismount the tires from your OEM 17x7.5 and mount them on the Type S 17x8 wheels if you want. There would be very marginal change in the overall size of the tire between the two sized wheels. I'm too lazy at the moment to go run it through a calculator but you can easily figure out the net change. It's not much.
4) It looks like it might be just a bit lower. I'd spitball maybe an inch, no more than two. It's a little bit hard to tell with the shadows. You can do any number of things from cutting a coil ($Free), to full coilovers ($$$$). Of course, some options are better than others. Some folks will run lowering springs on OEM shocks but I'm weary of that as the piston travel is compromised with the shorter springs. You could match a new shock/spring set which is sort of middle of the road, option wise. I've looked around a bit and had planned to run an Eibach spring / Koni or KYB shock option but after piecing it out with a full set of replacement top-hats so it'd be a simple R&R option (rather than reusing the stock upper hats) it ends up being about the same price as some decent coilover kits. A bit overkill for me, but it's hard to ignore the full customization that coilovers bring. Poke around a bit an you can see what others have done and what the results look like. See what you like and then price it out accordingly.
He did indeed. Thanks all for the replies! Very helpful - especially the details.
I'll be searching here of course, but if anyone has a particular lowering kit they've used on the wag that works well supporting the extra weight, rides well and offers a little firmer/more-controlled ride than stock please do comment!
^^^ Yeah, Roland did a good job on that. He knows his stuff.
This came up recently and had a very good nugget of information (IMO) regarding the difference between wagon and sedan suspension. Specifically the different spring rates for the rear.
Acurazine doesn't let you edit posts past 15min old. So...I cannot edit or make corrections to the post on this forum.
I will note that:
-I have switched to Tein Street Advance on this car. They are more comfort biased and I am much happier with them. I am selling my 5K mile old ST's for $600 to someone that prefers more agressive handling and body control.
-I went from Dunlop Z2's to Conti DW's to Pilot SS's currently. I am very happy with the pilot SS and think I have finally found the perfect tire/suspension combo for this type of car.
My in-laws are currently borrowing the car. They flew in from out of state and are using our car in lieu of a rental. They have been travelling across states with it...visiting relatives and friends. They are very pleased with how quietly and comfortably it rides.
I am very happy with the handling and comfort blend currently.
In the orignal post, the car was on Dunlop Z2's and ST's. This combination made the car a cornering monster. It was unbelievable how much the car hustled and how fast it responded. But...the tires were loud, and the suspension wasn't quite up to the task of soaking up the harshness.
Then I switched to Conti DW's with ST's. The contis were very flopsy. Lot of loss in response. But they were QUIET. And much better riding. But there was still a bit of harshness from the ST's.
I switched to Tein SA's and the car instantly rode like a true, soft edged cruiser. It rode better than stock. I wanted more out of the tires...and the contis had gotten a bit loud from cupping (???) over the course of 10k miles.
I switched to Michelin Pilot SS. A teeeensy bit more harshness than the Contis. But a welcome return in steering response and noise. These will also wear like iron. I've been using them on my sedan for 20+k miles...and they still have 7/32" left!!
I miss some of the low speed damping of the ST which controlled the body much much better, and felt less floaty. I would love to combine that with the overall comfort of the Tein. But I did not want to spend $2000+ on a custom suspension setup for this car to gain comfort AND absolute stability/control/handling. Its not necessary.
I think that the Tein SA and 245/40/18 MPSS combo is absolutely perfect for this car.
One noteable downside of the Teins is that the max rear height is 1.4" lower than stock (for a big booty wagon). I had to get some 1.25" 6061-T6 aluminum spacers CNC'd to raise the car up for winter. I use them in place of the original Tein tophat centering spacer.
I will take some pics of the car as it sits now. It is a small amount lower than the pictures in the original post.
And last, but not least...in the defense of the ST, they would have ridden better if I had the car lower. Raising it to the height in the pics required loading up the springs a bit.
Yeah, I thought so too. I need to chew it over a little bit more before pulling the trigger on suspension (still a while off), but it seems feasible.
@Roland_Bluntzs: regarding your spacer to raise the ass of the car; do you think a stiffer spring rate in the rear that was better suited for the extra mass of the wagon would have been sufficient or would you still need a spacer to get it higher?
^^ good question. I found a great pictorial at templeofvtec on this suspension (by "Jeffx"). Trying to link it here but the scrubber keeps kicking it out. I'll try breaking the front and rear of the link: http://ww. templeofvtec .net/forums/one-message?message_id=1062058
Yeah, I thought so too. I need to chew it over a little bit more before pulling the trigger on suspension (still a while off), but it seems feasible.
@Roland_Bluntzs: regarding your spacer to raise the ass of the car; do you think a stiffer spring rate in the rear that was better suited for the extra mass of the wagon would have been sufficient or would you still need a spacer to get it higher?
I spoke with an engineer at Tein. He suggested a 330LB spring for the rear. I wasn't crazy about the idea because I did not want to increase the spring rate in the back...and I'd have to buy them to take the gamble. I took some measurements of how much the factory SA 280LB spring compressed...and I determined that an extra 50LB would likely help to raise the car up like 3/8". The rear suspension is about a 1:1 MR and each rear corner should weigh about 700-750LB. So between 3/8" to 1/2" per 50LB spring rate change is about right. I didn't want to change rear rate. But...now that I've been on them for a while, the damper should be able to handle 330LB springs on like...-6 or stiffer on the damper knob. But 3/8" wasn't sufficient for me. So...for a few reasons...I did not buy springs.
I also asked about longer threaded collars. I would also have to buy these...and his worry was that there would be coil bind. But...from my measurements, you would have to raise the car into the clouds before coil bind is an issue. I opted out of this because longer collars would need to be shipped from Japan.
The CNC spacer was free for me . And it did exactly what I wanted. I did not need to excessively preload the springs to get what height I wanted. As a word of caution...do NOT buy a non-lipped universal donut spacer. It won't center the spring and you'll get noise and damper seal wear.
Mugen is an excellent company. But I would not buy a fixed suspension.
Tein SB's are $500-550
Tein SA's are $600
KW ST's are $850-900
H&R SP's are $900-1000
Those are all reputable systems for cheap cheap cheap.
I can say from experience that the Teins ride better than stock.
Match the right set of coilovers and tires together. Buy 18" wheels to keep a balance between tire response and forgiving sidewall height.
Don't waste your time with 17's. It won't look right in real life. The proportions on the white car with TL-S wheels seems skewed...and I believe its a photoshop.
There are people who have done TL waffles on sedans. It looks a bit off.
Roland - huge thanks. Didn't consider that the type-s pic might be a p-shop, but was wondering what was going on with cu2wagon's shots of the waffles on his. They looked REALLY small compared to OEM (same diameter)
Will take your advice on this. A couple of questions I know you've encountered/sweated/managed:
1) When going to 18s what rim width and offset did you decide on? OEM on the 17s was 7.5 with 35mm... I'd be looking to push out to flush (or very close to).
Roland - huge thanks. Didn't consider that the type-s pic might be a p-shop, but was wondering what was going on with cu2wagon's shots of the waffles on his. They looked REALLY small compared to OEM (same diameter)
Will take your advice on this. A couple of questions I know you've encountered/sweated/managed:
1) When going to 18s what rim width and offset did you decide on? OEM on the 17s was 7.5 with 35mm... I'd be looking to push out to flush (or very close to).
2) Any rub when moving to 245/40/18?
- Matt
Stock is 17x7 or 7.5 +50.
Mine are 18x8.5 +38 or...35...close enough. I am using 245/40/17 MPSS...which run wide.
I did not correct my camber. If I were to completely correct my rear camber at my current height, I would need a rear fender lip roll. I can correct it to about -2 (prediction)....which is within Acura's spec...right on the edge.
I may get a camber kit in the future. My current rear camber is like -2.8 or -3. No uneven tire wear with the Michelins.
07-03-2016, 12:06 PM
. And it did exactly what I wanted. I did not need to excessively preload the springs to get what height I wanted. As a word of caution...do NOT buy a non-lipped universal donut spacer. It won't center the spring and you'll get noise and damper seal wear.
