computerwizard56

Soo...long story short, I've been having some problems with the heat in my 2012 TSX. I took it to the dealer who noticed that the lower radiator hose was abnormally cold. It took them a few days but after they "repaired" it, I didn't notice any difference. They claim to have replaced the thermostat, flushed and bled the coolant, tested the water pump and pressure tested the radiator. I was told the 4-cyl models "just take a while longer" to heat up.

Today, the outdoor temperature it was -13C (9F). From a cold start outside, it was about 20 minutes before the temperature gauge reached the normal range. By this time, I am home from work already so what good is a cold commute.

How long does it take you guys to heat up to normal engine temp and interior heat wise on cold days?

The following is a summary of my simple observations:
After 2 mins, idling did not change temperature at all, no heat
After 8 mins, driving about 60 km/h gauge finally reaches C (cold line), very little heat
After 17 mins, temp gauges rises to 4 gradations above the C line with mild heat
After 24 mins, arrive at home and temp rises to 7 gradations above C line, heat from driver's head vent measures 50C
After 27 mins, (3 mins idling on driveway) temp decreases to 6 gradations above C line, heat from driver's vent decreases to 47C, upper rad hose at 48C (external), lower rad hose 9C
After 37 mins (more idling) temp decreases to 5.5 gradations above C line, heat from driver's vent decreases to 45C, upper rad hose at 50C, low rad hose 11C

Sorry for the long post!

iCrap

15 minutes idle my car is ready to go, which is what i do on really cold days.

5-10 minutes driving and it reaches normal temp and heat is blowing just fine. It's been around 20f last few weeks for reference.

Heats up way faster is you start the car with whole system off also.

Simba91102

15 minutes at idle? Wow! What a waste of.... everything. I give it a about a minute to get the fluids moving, then hit the road. I have heat within a few minutes (I leave the climate control on auto w/ the AC off pretty much all winter)(using the defroster button occasionally provides the AC components with enough of a work out during the winter months), and I'm at normal operating temperature ("NOT", and that's coolant only, the oil takes 2-3 times longer) within 5 minutes or so. Coolant systems are critically important to emissions control systems. If properly operating, the ambient (outside) temperature really makes little difference in how much time it takes for the engine to warm up (the only difference being how cold the cooling system and the engine are at start in relation to NOT).

If the OP's time estimates are anywhere near correct, he definitely has a problem. I understand that the thermostat was replaced, but the lack of rise in temperature would seem to point to it being stuck open. I'm sure some assume that the thermostat stays closed until the engine warms up, then opens, and that's it. Actually, the thermostat (in winter weather anyway) continually partially opens and closes while the car is running to maintain the coolant within a particular temperature range (plus or minus whatever the thermostat is rated at). But.... with nothing to compare the time and temperature figures to (which I actually find a little confusing), it could even be a climate control issue.

tastytreats

I normally just let it idle for 2mins then start driving. My car is at normal temp (coolant temp according to the gauge) by the time I'm at the second light from my house... Which is about 5mins plus the 2mins for idle.

When it's crazy cold like this morning (8F) I will let it idle for a little longer before heading out. But yeah I would maybe take it to another dealer and just see what they say.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Everything I wanted to say, Simba covered.

iCrap

Well, yeah. It's a waste. I hardly ever do that. only when its like 3 degrees outside.

computerwizard56

I took those times with my camera while shooting the run timer from the trip computer in the speedometer..would have been pretty hard to count the temperature gauge gradations if not.

To be honest, temperature in Edmonton here for January are usually in the -20C (-4F) range and my other vehicles have had no trouble warming up in a few minutes of driving them. My 2014 Toyota Venza V6, for example, is pumping out heat after about 2-3 mins and is in the normal operating temp range within about 5 mins of normal city driving. While I do have a remote start, I am not a fan of idling more than about 5 mins.

Today, the temperature was +2C (36F) and the timing was pretty much the same in terms of how long it took to reach a normal engine temperature. My commute today was a total of 37 mins with more "stop and go" than usual but the upper and lower rad hoses made it to 70 and 20C. I noticed today however, after shutting off the engine, that a quiet hissing/gurgling sound was coming from near the water pump. Is that normal?

I very much agree with Simba91102 in that outdoor temperature really shouldn't make much difference in operating temperature once an engine is warm. While this supports my theory of why the timing vs engine temp was similar to yesterday's colder temperatures, it doesn't explain why I measured higher temperatures in the rad hoses though. Am I missing something here?

E-ManN

agreed.

15 mins is long time .. here in TO you would get a ticket, we have 3 min idle rule.


Same for me... 1-2 mins warm up. Then I'm rollin

Car warms up in 2 mins when driving as it has load on engine.. much faster than idle. Just take it easy ... no racing .. until all the other parts get warmed up to normal operating temperatures.

ceb

Sheesh. Even that 1 to 2 minute warmup is a waste.

I have always started the car, waited for the "OK" on the nav to "light up", press the button, put it in reverse, back out of the garage and go. About a mile later my air is blowing warm.

bagwell

iTrader: (1)

I'd definitely have one of these.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-2014-Acura-TSX-Engine-Block-Heater-NEW-OEM-08T44-TA0-100-/120982446245?hash=item1c2b1da0a5&vxp=mtr

UTAH TSX

You have one of two problems period for sure, the thermostat is stuck open, or the coolant separator is gone, not put in at the factory and the coolant is not circulating, my bet is the dealer didn't change the thermostat it's in the techs tool box, if it is the separator I belive it would have problems overheating in the summer

computerwizard56

Today's update: Snowy and cold again with an outdoor temp reading of -12C driving home. After going up a steep hill today, I noticed the temperature gauge rose fairly quickly by about 3 to 4 gradations. Could this indicate air within the system? I'll note that the reservoir was below the MIN line when I first brought the issue to the dealer in December but we never found signs of a leak.

@ bagwell: I do in fact have a block heater. All cars sold in Alberta (probably all of Canada?) have this as standard equipment installed by the dealer before delivery. Unfortunately, I don't use it when parked at work during the day because our stupid property management company only have the outlets on when it's -15C or colder, and even then it only cycles on once an hour every 3 hours.

@UTAH TSX: I've never had overheating issues during the summer on my TSX before so does that rule out the coolant separator? As for the forgotten thermostat, I'd hope they didn't make such a stupid mistake after testing it. They did say it wasn't a new thermostat and that it came from another '12 TSX from their used lot. Apparently, they didn't have any in stock for the 4 days I left them vehicle for them to diagnose.

Simba91102

If I'm not mistaken, I think block heaters are actually required equipment by law in some, if not all, of Canada. Perhaps one (or more) of our Canadian brothers (or sisters) could advise. There's too much going on here to try and figure this out by yourself. I'd suggest visiting a different Acura (or Honda if you're willing to pay; they won't do warranty work on an Acura) dealer, explain what you're experiencing and what's been done so far (supposedly), and let them have a wack at it. So far your problems have been benign (aside from you having a chilly ride); they may not stay that way.

cheeks21

do you have the heater cranked all the way up form start up?? if u do, youre not really giving the coolant a chance to warm up. expecially if its really cold.

my 20 min drive to work usually at -15 degrees celcius recently consists of.

starting the car. 30 second warmup.
drive with no heater on.
about 3-5 mins i start to see the needle move.
i dont turn my heat (auto 21 deg C. setting) until needle hits the first line on the temp gauge.

keeping it on highest fan setting and MAX temp will really take a long time for your car to warm up.

computerwizard56

I took my TSX back to the same dealer, who is going to coordinate something with Honda Canada to diagnose the issue. The dealership, has exhausted everything they can do apparently. I've been driving my other vehicle until then since it's frigid this week (-25C).

I don't crack the heat and fan all the way up. Actually, I leave the system on full AUTO 99% of the time which I believe adjusts the fan speed accordingly. My interior temperature is set to 23C year-round.

ceb

I leave it on auto and 23 degrees year round too. I didn't look where the dial is buI I start the car, push the OK button, back out and drive off.

Hot air comes out at the 4 minute mark with the outside temps around minus 10 C. Actually, the hot air generally comes out at 4 minutes whenever the outside temps are below +10c

computerwizard56

So..after leaving my TSX at the dealer for 2 days, they figured out the problem (or lack of). Basically, I was just being paranoid about the whole engine temperature issue and I guess that made me think there wasn't enough heat output from the climate system.

The technician took the time and effort to graph out the temperature gauge response with the actual temperature recorded by the onboard computer which indicated that the gauge sensitivity varies with temperature. "C" corresponds to about 50C and the midpoint corresponds to about 95C. He attached this graph and a lengthy report to the work order as well as some thermal imaging photos he took of the interior of the vehicle which basically proved me wrong!

I was just crazy I guess haha.

musty hustla

post the graph wiz!

fxcarden

So I've got the following situation:

Start car at 7:39 AM, 13 degrees F outside.....

7:41, and 1 mile driven.....needle has not moved (not unusual)
7:44, and 3 miles driven......no change.......in the past, i would already be feeling some heat and the fan would be on.
7:46, 4 miles......ditto
7:49, 6 miles, on the highway....now the needle moves to the first mark
7:51, 8 miles, on the highway....now needle on 2nd mark, hitting stop and go traffic.....
7:53, 8 miles, no change
7:56, 9 miles, stop and go traffic, needle now on 3rd mark (outside temp 17 degrees)

Eventually, some 30 minutes after starting the car I arrive at work (16 miles), and the needle is about 1/3 of the way up and I've got "some" heat.

so.............t-stat stuck open, right ?.

computerwizard56

One year later...Here's the service record essay and graph! Sorry it took so long. I truly appreciate the talented young tech who took the time to put this together. If they hadn't, I would have been convinced the issue still exists.

musty hustla

Excellent tech! He needs to be in charge.