KrylonBlue

Hello, I'm new here but I'm a big Honda fan. I traded in my 2008 Honda Civic Coupe for a 2012 Acura RDX. I traded that in with a deal from my dealership due to half of the car having paint faults from the factory. I purchased a 2012 TSX w/tech package and couldn't be happier. Well, except for the scratches that were not noticable during pick up! These were not there when I signed the paper work, but were there after. Did not notice until I took it home and saw it in sun light as it wasn't visible in the white lighting they use. Both rear quarter panels, as shown in these images, feature this problem. My rear bumper too has the same issue and they tried to buff it, but of course it didn't work. I believe these happened during prepping at the dealer, but what do I know?

I've posted the images by link below so it doesn't take up too much of the screen. I even circled (badly might I add) the scratches that are visible by camera. The car was purchased on Saturday, June 16th and picked up that following Wednesday. The dealership is claiming that elements caused it and a flaw is to be expected. I noticed them immediately and they keep passing this off as I need to accept it because scratches happen. Has anyone else experienced this before?

http://i50.tinypic.com/2ueqxw3.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/11c9krd.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/23uyk5e.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/mcq5g0.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/5d1oc8.jpg

KrylonBlue

I can't seem to find the edit button but maybe that's because new members can't do edit. The last image has black lines drawn in to point out every scratch. Just wanted to clarify that and thank you for any help.

Since I had to edit it, this is a picture of my new toy that I wish I could be enjoying rather than going nuts. My interior panels have a few scratches and imperfections also so it's a frustrating experience.

PyroDave

we prefer pics to be encased in the [img] [/img] code brackets, easier to see without clicking. that is completely unacceptable, and its obviously from a dirty rag used in the prep... inform the dealer that scratches happen, and so do lawsuits. i would not stand for any damage on my brand new car...

oh and edit's are only allowed within like 15 min in general, but new members might not be able to edit

KrylonBlue

I usually do brackets but I remember on 8thCivic they only liked them if the images were smaller. I didn't have a chance to check that so I did it this way. I tried to edit the post within 1 minute but I wasn't able too. I'm considering demanding a new paint job by my local shop that does an excellent job with blending and such. I will be contacting Client Relations as the salesman who is my friends dads "friend" (a lot going on there haha) sold me the car and told me to. He is furious about it and couldn't believe it but told me what steps to take. I can't see how any of this could be from anything short of prep work so I wanted to ask here.

And as promised, here is my new toy. Let's hope I get it right!

PyroDave

goodluck, don't settle until you are happy. you don't buy a new car and get blemishes. none of those really look THAT bad though. i think a good polish/wax/seal at the max, no blending will be needed.

also, maybe its the angle and that your car is like a few inches forward or idk what, but your car looks really thin, and the side mirrors pop like mickey mouse ears. look at it compared to the fat 2nd gen right next to you thats the exact same color lmfao

KrylonBlue

In image #4, you can see one scratch/deep chip that's there. It's not a paint chip and again wasn't there during paper work. It's down to the metal and at least 70% of the scratches can be felt.These have become more noticeable as the wax has worn off and the rear bumper they buffed looked decent afterwards but a week later is becoming awful looking again. I'm hoping it's not a new paint job, but once it's down to the metal and most of them have feeling to them, it's beyond a simple repair. At this point, I want all of these scratches gone. Not ghosted but actually gone. I'm prepared to be the douchebag if need be.

As for the image, it was pulled forward slightly.

KrylonBlue

I contacted Client Relations at the dealership and I was told to bring the car in on Monday morning. They will have a loaner vehicle available as soon as I arrive and they will attempt to buff everything out. If they are not able to do so, which I know is impossible as a few are down to the metal, the car will be going to the body shop and getting repainted at their cost. We'll see how it goes, but that was their promise to me.

Aman

You're right, general rule of thumb is if you can feel the scratch with your fingernail I cannot be buffed out. Hopefully everything works out for you. Don't give up the loaner until you are 100% satisfied with the job.

Another thing to take into account is that resale value might take a hit with a re-painted bumper.

KrylonBlue

I'm aware of the resale value taking a hit, but my friend at the dealership told me to ask for paperwork stating why it was repainted and to bring it up if needed at trade-in. I plan to stick with Acura in the future so I'm sure I will get this handled correctly.

Thank you for the warning though.

gonzo08452

I dont know if I'd let then paint. Would't that diminish the cars value at resale or lease return? I

ceb

A few comments about dealerships

They are clueless about detailing and I would not let a dealer try to correct the paint. A dealer will pour glaze on the car and it'll look nice and shiny until the first or second wash when all the defects are back. This time they are your fault because you can't convince anyone that the dealership did it.

I would never, ever, allow a 2 week old car to be repainted. You might as well just take a few thousand dollars and flush them down the toilet. No "letter" is going to get an extra dime a few years down the road. A buyer will see 'respray' and lowball you.

Me? I'd be demanding a new car and inspect this one with a fine toothed comb before you sign for it.

KrylonBlue

I inspected the car before I purchased it. In fact, I did so so carefully that I can confirm without any doubts that none of these scratches were on my car prior to me signing the paper work. That is the exact reason I'm so annoyed with this and I know the only option is going to be a respray. I'm also aware that the paperwork has little to no value to any potential buyer. However, it does have value to the dealership as it's going to be signed off by them. I'll be holding them to it when I trade it in. I was told by a friend at the dealership that the value will not be diminished if traded in (with them anyways) if all of the original parts are in tact and the VIN is still attached.

Believe me, I do not trust the dealership to correct the issue at all. Even if they were good at it the issue would still be there. No glaze in the world is going to fill in these scratches. I have a file with Acura Corporate detailing the process that's going to be taken and the same images were sent to them. The car will have to be repainted on both rear quarter panels and the rear bumper but at this point there isn't a whole lot I can do. The only positive to all of this is despite the factory paint being removed, at least the new paint will be thicker and of higher quality. That's my experience and understanding anyways so it's sort of a win/loss situation.

KrylonBlue

I can't wait until I can edit posts so I don't have to keep making new ones and making it look like I'm attempting to drive up my post count.

I suppose it would diminish the value as the factory paint issue I had with an RDX was said to lose some if repainted. This was straight from the Service District Manager so take it for what it is. I'm not thrilled by any means to have the whole rear of my car repainted, but I'd rather deal with that then all of these scratches. I should be fine as long as I have the paper work and the original VIN stickers are on those repainted panels. I'm sure not everyone will agree with this, but if there was any actual damage than my VIN stickers wouldn't be there anymore. I guess only time will tell but overall Acura in general has not made an excellent impression on me. My less expensive 2008 Honda Civic Coupe was a much more pleasurable experience to be honest. I almost feel as if I'm supposed to say forget about Acura and go back to a basic Honda vehicle.

MrOtocinclus

Funny, I was cleaning out my garage today and one of the things I found was a can of blue Krylon spray paint.

My 2 cents is that getting the car resprayed, and having "backup" in the form of signed paperwork is just a way for the dealer to get you out the door and sweep this whole thing under the rug. Big picture wise, do you really think that piece of paper is going to help you when you try to sell the car years down the road? Are you certain that you will trade back to this dealer? What if you're selling the car to someone else?

Really think about this now, and take a step back. I can see it already, the appraiser comes back and says the paint thickness is different, and then you hand them this piece of paper. Do you honestly believe it's not going to affect the value of the car, in favor of the dealer? In the end, you end up losing, twice.

I'm sorry if I didn't catch what state you're in, but depending on where you are, there might be a cooling off period where you can still return the car back to the dealer. I'd fight this politely and calmly. At this point, the dealer has your money, so he has no incentive to do anything for you. Give him some incentive (or disincentive) to do something on your end. Find a lawyer friend. Go to your local TV station. As your thread title suggests, buying a new car should not blow.

Good luck, sir.

KrylonBlue

I'm from Illinois so there is no law in place to protect me on this. I don't know what to think about this paper as it's just a signed piece of paper. Sure, it's paperwork straight from the dealers service department, but this is only worth a thing if it's traded in to that same dealership. I may never go there again, but I've tested so many options already and this is as far as I'm going to be able to get. My best friends dad who used to work there assured me that this paint job wouldn't effect me as my VIN number is still in tact. That was also said by the salesman who is my friends fathers friend. I don't see why he would lie to me but I guess it is far from out of the question that he could be wrong.

Truthfully, I'm not happy. I won't be completely satisfied either way. But as I said earlier, I purchased an RDX in October that had paint flaws that I did not see on the day of purchase. These were under the clear coat and factory paint problems. The only reason I did not see these is it was cloudy and the paint didn't shine as it would in the sun. Oh well, but the dealer worked with me and bought it back with no hassle. But here we go again but this time it was a sunny day and I know for a fact it was damaged by the dealers prep service. I just want these scratches gone and if it means repainting is then so be it. If I decide against the dealership later on and switch to a new one, and I take a loss even after explaining it, I guess I'll bite the loss and deal with it. Lesson will be learned and that's all one can do whether we want to or not. I'm very persistent and I learned from my now deceased aunt on how to handle these things. But at some point it becomes so tiring that you just want it to be right and learn from it.

Side story for fun: My aunt once returned a 3 year old couch. Yes, she used it for 3 years and it still looked brand new and she returned it. The model wasn't even made any longer! I agree, she shouldn't have done that, but I guess I learned from the best.

PyroDave

this site does not allow you to edit posts past 15 minutes, so dont get excited. if you are going to allow them to respray the car, let them do it so they don't fuck it up, then before accepting it back, also get paperwork from them stating that any routine maintenance for the next 3 years is free(on them), including tire rotations and oil changes. that way fuck the paper that says eventually they wont take diminished value, dont spend another dime, or get some free accessories.

also, vin sticker just means you have the original parts, those parts could be repaired and repainted after a fender bender and the like. all the vin stickers prove is that the car was never WRECKED

KrylonBlue

Good point, I never did consider that about the VIN stickers. Also, thank you for the idea regarding free maitenance for the next 3 years because I may not have thought of that. I do believe I'm entitled to this after all of these issues I've dealt with. This is why I joined AcuraZine; excellent ideas from fellow Acura enthusiasts.

As for the edit button, at least you have a 15 minute window. I don't even have a second to edit!

PyroDave

volvo offers 5 years free maintenance, why can't acura after putting you through this paint shenanigans. remind them of the RDX paint even though you traded that one in... its still your time and energy. volvo even covers brakes and wiper inserts...
http://www.volvocars.com/us/sales-se...s/default.aspx

KrylonBlue

Thank you for the link. I will be sure to push it and see where I can get. At least give me something for dealing with all of this and for being so willing to play nice.

ceb

There is no state that has a cooling off period for cars.

For those of you unfamiliar with the term, some states will allow you to change your mind about a purchase after you've made it - but usually before you've taken actual possession. These laws were enacted to give you a few days to change your mind after the siding salesman came to your house and sold you overpriced siding.

I agree with the rest of your post. There is no way to tell if the dealer will give him a fair value. To think that a respray gives him better quality paint is absurd and thicker paint isn't an advantage either. Furthermore, you can usually tell a respray from miles away.

Years ago, we bought a three year old new car. It had gotten lost in the back of a shipping lot and we bought it for almost nothing. A few months later the chrome started pitting and the clearcoat started to peel so the dealer had the entire car resprayed. It never looked quite right but I sold it three years later for more than I paid - that was a fluke. The car was a mid seventies Ford Granada bought in 79.

Now I'd only accept a respray if it came with a significant discount and I intended to keep the car until it died.

ceb

Correct. The vin stickers merely prove that the parts weren't replaced but means nothing else. Every appraiser these days has a paint meter and the respray of several panels will kill the value.

KrylonBlue

Yeah, that's true and I know I won't keep it until it dies. This is a tough one because I'm basically being bent over backwards with no real escape. I can only do so much as they have much to gain and little to lose. I have seen some resprays that were not noticeable until a person told me but I've seen those horrible jobs that looked as if a child painted the car. I don't want to accept a respray but living with all of these scratches is not an option. Its sickening to me that I bought an Acura twice and each time I had paint issues. My frustration level is beyond an acceptable level and I'm upset about it. However, like the RDX, I demanded a brand new car and got no where even though I was polite originally. They made me a deal where my trade in was at very little loss and the car had 4000 miles. I lost about $1000 so I'm not going to complain as all of my accessories from the RDX were installed on the TSX at no charge. All new accessories though and not taken off of the RDX. I just realize that options isn't really there.

ceb

You are understandably too emotionally involved in this matter to weigh all the facts carefully. Step back a moment, take a few deep breaths and consider these facts:

You took delivery of a car with what appears to be dealer induced paint blemishes. The dealer appears to assumed responsibility for the damage - or at least hasn't told you to go fly a kite.

A respray will lower the value of the car - regardless of quality.

A "letter" explaining the circumstances of the respray is worthless. Nobody at this time can guarantee you the value of your car at trade-in and there is no way that you will ever know how much they dinged you for the respray.

You haver three choices:

1. Convince them to give you another car - difficult and time consuming

2. Live with the defects nd get some sort of credit. It is difficult to tell how bad the damage is from your pictures.

3. Allow them to do a correction/respray and press for some sort of credit for diminished value.

Here's what I would do.

Post a thread in the regional forum asking for a reference to a top notch detailer in your area. Drive by the shop and have them evaluate the problem and give you a cost estimate.

As an alternative you can go here to find a detailer. I think you need an independent opinion from somebody who actually knows what they are doing.

Come back here once you have an independent evaluation of the problem and a cost to fix it. If a detail correction is feasible, then I'd just ask the dealership to pay for the correction at a competent shop.

dsc888

krylonblue,

I am sorry to see and read about your experience. There is nothing worse than seeing a defect that cannot be easily remedied. I hope they can make everything right for you so you can enjoy your car.

I too had some minor paint defects at delivery which luckily my dealer with his detail guys were able to buff out with very fine compound. It was on the bumper on my Graphite Luster Metallic paint which stood out. I've since washed it and it has not come back. But deep scratches are a different story.

Please keep us all posted. Hopefully you can put this behind you soon enough.

KrylonBlue

Believe me, I've tried for a new car but it's like talking to a brick wall. It's the whole a flaw is a flaw thing and the main components are fine. As for living with it, I couldn't do it. Every time I walk up to my car I see these scratches without even looking for them. It glares right into my eyes and it's an eye soar. Living with it on a 3 year old car would be difficult enough to this degree. But on a brand new car is unacceptable and impossible. I should really talk to a professional regarding this and see where that goes. If I do use a body shop, do I use theirs or demand to use mine? The only issue is I'm sure mine will be way more expensive as I remember my friend spent $600 to get both doors repainted on the passenger side after he was keyed. The paint looked perfect in any lighting but it wasn't cheap.

ceb

Do NOT go to a body shop for paint correction or detailing. Body shops know nothing about detailing cars. You need to find a good detailer to give you an estimate. If paintwork is required then I'd probably use the dealer bodyshop because you have more recourse. Just make sure that you make your expectations perfectly clear to the GM of the dealership and have a witness with you. I'd followup that conversation with an email outlining your discussion and expectations before the bodyshop starts work.

KrylonBlue

Thank you for the bold NOT!

I wasn't saying I'd go to a body shop for detail work. I was only asking if I should use my body shop if possible or theirs if it came down to painting. Thank you for that information and I'll end up using theirs. I guess that's so if they can't match it well than it's a strike against the dealer?

ceb

I'm not sure about a "strike" but it is certainly their responsibility.

KrylonBlue

Sounds good, thank you for everything.

ceb

Sure but please consult a quality detailer before you go back to the dealer. You need an independent evaluation of the problem.

PyroDave

just walk in with a tape recorder in your pocket, hit record, and talk to the manager. or use your iphone/android if you have one, im sure theres an app for that. that way there is no "i never said that". "well yes, sir, you did, it was right after i banged your wife"

KrylonBlue

Don't take this the wrong way but I love you Pyro. Haha! Bazinga!

PyroDave

im not worried... your not nearly as :ghey: as stak and ed

KrylonBlue

Why thank you good sir.

I must now get back to figuring out how to use Windows 8. LOL

ceb

Dave,Dave, Dave... I doubt that anybody would want to bang the GM's wife but I'd be very careful with recording. Just yesterday a Principal got arrested for running afoul of the law based on a hidden recording and now faces 30 years in the slammer where she'll undoubtedly become someone's bitch, so maybe banging the GM's wife isn't all that bad.

Having someone with you during your discussion and following up with an email "during our discussion yesterday we agreed that you would..." should be plenty of ammo if things go wrong. It is even better if you close with something that requires a response or action on his part that shows that he got and read the email. Something like "please confirm that you'll have a loaner for me to use."

That'll probably be better than sharing a cell with Bubba for the next 30 years - although you would save on car insurance, payments and gas - plus you'd have a steady "girlfriend" that can't get away from you.

ceb

Good luck with that. I hate that interface, but then again I also can't find half the commands in Office 2010 either.

thunderbt3

I shopped at Mcgrath in Lisle and they were screwing me around. I asked dumb questions that they would answer incorrectly or wouldn't know basic information about the car (V6 or I4 before the V6 was available, whats the fuel econ during the test drive, does this car have HID's). I also shopped at the Acura dealer in Naperville. I'm sure the salesman had to clean up a mess after I test drove a couple cars in the Naperville test drive course. There's a hard braking zone that they want you to test the brakes with but I just pitched the car into the corner right after it. There's also a lane change section that I accelerated through that kind of rattled the salesman's cage. They also knew nothing about the cars and were screwing me around since I was younger (24 at the time).

I ended up buying my '09 from Mueller's. Excellent sales experience, saleman was respectful, knowledgeable, and wasn't pushy with "extra/extended" stuff. Service has been excellent with 2 warranty issues and TSB's. I also picked up the sport areo kit from their parts department. The parts manager was excited and asked me about it when I went in for a TSB.

PyroDave

bombshells are gold diggers, most GM's should have some money. don't completely exclude the wife.

OP: Pics and we'll tell you how to proceed

on the case of recording, i am not an attorney and my interpretation of the law may be incorrect, it also may vary where you are. you can tape record a conversation(without consent) as long as there was no expectation of privacy and is not privileged. aka, not in a closed room, or between a husband/wife or attorney/doctor whatever. if it could reasonably be overheard by passerby's or other people, there was no reasonable expectation to privacy

ceb

Your right, we shouldn't exclude the wife but I'd be very careful with the recording. In the case yesterday of the Middle School principal, she had her daughter place a recorder in the locker room to determine if the coach was being too mean. Since she was indicted that kinda blows your theory of "it is OK if it is in a place where other people can hear it" since a locker room generally has lots of kids in it when the coach is there.

I provided a clearly legal way of documenting a conversation that is unambiguous if written right.

Dave will be happy to drive the OP's car (and his wife/girlfriend/boyfriend) while the OP rots in jail.

PyroDave

sorry, the lawyer side of me wont let me give up, though i can agree that he should use the safer side, aka the email. the locker room is considered protected, just as a bathroom is