The new car experience blows...
07-07-2012, 03:47 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
However, I must point out that a dealership is ultimately private property and if there are no other customers around at the time of the conversation, a good defense attorney representing the dealership could potentially have a solid case against you if it would come to that, OP. I would steer clear of anything like you had suggested just to be safe, as it's not worth it!
Here is a reference point, my state's law (PA):
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-recording-law
07-07-2012, 05:46 PM
#42
I deal with "Wiretapping" almost daily in my career and PyroDave is dead on. While it can vary from state to state, the rule of thumb is generally that, "The law does not cover oral communications when the speakers do not have an 'expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation.'"
However, I must point out that a dealership is ultimately private property and if there are no other customers around at the time of the conversation, a good defense attorney representing the dealership could potentially have a solid case against you if it would come to that, OP. I would steer clear of anything like you had suggested just to be safe, as it's not worth it!
Here is a reference point, my state's law (PA):
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-recording-law
However, I must point out that a dealership is ultimately private property and if there are no other customers around at the time of the conversation, a good defense attorney representing the dealership could potentially have a solid case against you if it would come to that, OP. I would steer clear of anything like you had suggested just to be safe, as it's not worth it!
Here is a reference point, my state's law (PA):
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-recording-law
and OP, as cited here, http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-recording-law illinois seems to not have that nice clause saying that its ok if you have no expectation to privacy, and you dont wanna deal with what the law "implies". i revisit my prior statement and suggest you follow cebs advice as it is a bit safer, though my advice is not wrong ;P
07-07-2012, 07:32 PM
#43
07-07-2012, 07:40 PM
#44
I deal with "Wiretapping" almost daily in my career and PyroDave is dead on. While it can vary from state to state, the rule of thumb is generally that, "The law does not cover oral communications when the speakers do not have an 'expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation.'"
However, I must point out that a dealership is ultimately private property and if there are no other customers around at the time of the conversation, a good defense attorney representing the dealership could potentially have a solid case against you if it would come to that, OP. I would steer clear of anything like you had suggested just to be safe, as it's not worth it!
Here is a reference point, my state's law (PA):
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-recording-law
However, I must point out that a dealership is ultimately private property and if there are no other customers around at the time of the conversation, a good defense attorney representing the dealership could potentially have a solid case against you if it would come to that, OP. I would steer clear of anything like you had suggested just to be safe, as it's not worth it!
Here is a reference point, my state's law (PA):
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...-recording-law
Let's be clear about this - wiretapping and recording laws vary from state to state and there is sufficient confusion to stay away from any recording as it may get the recorder in lots of hot water.
There is no "expectation of privacy" (except perhaps for video surveillance) in a public restroom or in a school locker room. There may, however, be that expectation in a private office at the dealership.
That's all immaterial because he shouldn't record conversations.
07-07-2012, 07:48 PM
#45
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
I have a degree in Law Enforcement so that's what I'm working on getting into. I would like to thank all of you for the information and also clarifying what is considered a good idea and a bad idea in regards on handling this situation. The very last thing I need to happen is for me to screw up my whole career path by choosing to handle a car situation the wrong way. Of course, I'm not one to record conversations because the law varies too much and I wouldn't take that chance. Still, communication is key and I do have e-mails from them and if needed, I'll have more. I will also be getting paper work with certain information regarding the process so that it's handled properly. One thing to note is that I'm hoping a repaint isn't necessary even though a few of the scratches are passed the clear coat and can be felt. I just realized that on the TSX, the rear quarter panel isn't actually a panel of it's own. It links throughout the whole car from top to bottom and both sides have severe issues. 
What ever happened to the days of it being an actual panel and not a solid piece of metal going through the whole side of the vehicle?
What ever happened to the days of it being an actual panel and not a solid piece of metal going through the whole side of the vehicle?
07-08-2012, 02:35 AM
#46
legally, negative. but i know a good bit about the law, and i could pass for one lmfao. im doing a 3 year program to get a B.S. in BioChem, transferring straight into a 4 year to finish out for my PharmD, and then 2 more years to obtain my juris doctor, aka law degree. i intend on going into pharm law, and i like to be well equipped.
i am dead on in my interpretation of the law, the problem is, any lawyer will tell you this, not even the law knows what it really means. each one has a gray area that can be fought, and a good enough lawyer can win on a BS technicality. remember the movie liar liar where jim carrey can't lie? the "wife" gets half even though she obviously cheated because she used a fake ID to get married and sign the prenup. she was 17 and technically couldn't sign a contract, therefore it is void, even though she lied. we are suggesting that even though i am correct that you can legally record a conversation if there is no expectation to privacy, a lawyer will argue where does one really expect privacy, as that is not blatantly stated. and despite him being right or wrong, a court case is never fun. and ABSOLUTELY NO RECORDING DEVICES are allowed in a locker room or bathroom, public or private. not just video. the law states that one cannot expect privacy in an open area where passerby's may hear the convo, but a closed office even in a public space cannot be recorded without consent
we were just saying, hey you know what, you may be right, but its more trouble that its worth. like proving to your wife that your right. does that ever get you anywhere ceb? proving that you were right? hahaha
criminal justice degree? you gonna be a cop or you lookin fed/gov?
and yea there is actually a point in the body where they are supposed to cut the body panel and then reweld it to replace the fender. the rocker panel was also separate on the first gen
A bit of a contradictory message, isn't it.
Let's be clear about this - wiretapping and recording laws vary from state to state and there is sufficient confusion to stay away from any recording as it may get the recorder in lots of hot water.
There is no "expectation of privacy" (except perhaps for video surveillance) in a public restroom or in a school locker room. There may, however, be that expectation in a private office at the dealership.
That's all immaterial because he shouldn't record conversations.
Let's be clear about this - wiretapping and recording laws vary from state to state and there is sufficient confusion to stay away from any recording as it may get the recorder in lots of hot water.
There is no "expectation of privacy" (except perhaps for video surveillance) in a public restroom or in a school locker room. There may, however, be that expectation in a private office at the dealership.
That's all immaterial because he shouldn't record conversations.
we were just saying, hey you know what, you may be right, but its more trouble that its worth. like proving to your wife that your right. does that ever get you anywhere ceb? proving that you were right? hahaha
I have a degree in Law Enforcement so that's what I'm working on getting into. I would like to thank all of you for the information and also clarifying what is considered a good idea and a bad idea in regards on handling this situation. The very last thing I need to happen is for me to screw up my whole career path by choosing to handle a car situation the wrong way. Of course, I'm not one to record conversations because the law varies too much and I wouldn't take that chance. Still, communication is key and I do have e-mails from them and if needed, I'll have more. I will also be getting paper work with certain information regarding the process so that it's handled properly. One thing to note is that I'm hoping a repaint isn't necessary even though a few of the scratches are passed the clear coat and can be felt. I just realized that on the TSX, the rear quarter panel isn't actually a panel of it's own. It links throughout the whole car from top to bottom and both sides have severe issues.
What ever happened to the days of it being an actual panel and not a solid piece of metal going through the whole side of the vehicle?
What ever happened to the days of it being an actual panel and not a solid piece of metal going through the whole side of the vehicle?
and yea there is actually a point in the body where they are supposed to cut the body panel and then reweld it to replace the fender. the rocker panel was also separate on the first gen
07-08-2012, 02:50 AM
#47
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
legally, negative. but i know a good bit about the law, and i could pass for one lmfao. im doing a 3 year program to get a B.S. in BioChem, transferring straight into a 4 year to finish out for my PharmD, and then 2 more years to obtain my juris doctor, aka law degree. i intend on going into pharm law, and i like to be well equipped.
i am dead on in my interpretation of the law, the problem is, any lawyer will tell you this, not even the law knows what it really means. each one has a gray area that can be fought, and a good enough lawyer can win on a BS technicality. remember the movie liar liar where jim carrey can't lie? the "wife" gets half even though she obviously cheated because she used a fake ID to get married and sign the prenup. she was 17 and technically couldn't sign a contract, therefore it is void, even though she lied. we are suggesting that even though i am correct that you can legally record a conversation if there is no expectation to privacy, a lawyer will argue where does one really expect privacy, as that is not blatantly stated. and despite him being right or wrong, a court case is never fun. and ABSOLUTELY NO RECORDING DEVICES are allowed in a locker room or bathroom, public or private. not just video. the law states that one cannot expect privacy in an open area where passerby's may hear the convo, but a closed office even in a public space cannot be recorded without consent
we were just saying, hey you know what, you may be right, but its more trouble that its worth. like proving to your wife that your right. does that ever get you anywhere ceb? proving that you were right? hahaha
criminal justice degree? you gonna be a cop or you lookin fed/gov?
and yea there is actually a point in the body where they are supposed to cut the body panel and then reweld it to replace the fender. the rocker panel was also separate on the first gen
i am dead on in my interpretation of the law, the problem is, any lawyer will tell you this, not even the law knows what it really means. each one has a gray area that can be fought, and a good enough lawyer can win on a BS technicality. remember the movie liar liar where jim carrey can't lie? the "wife" gets half even though she obviously cheated because she used a fake ID to get married and sign the prenup. she was 17 and technically couldn't sign a contract, therefore it is void, even though she lied. we are suggesting that even though i am correct that you can legally record a conversation if there is no expectation to privacy, a lawyer will argue where does one really expect privacy, as that is not blatantly stated. and despite him being right or wrong, a court case is never fun. and ABSOLUTELY NO RECORDING DEVICES are allowed in a locker room or bathroom, public or private. not just video. the law states that one cannot expect privacy in an open area where passerby's may hear the convo, but a closed office even in a public space cannot be recorded without consent
we were just saying, hey you know what, you may be right, but its more trouble that its worth. like proving to your wife that your right. does that ever get you anywhere ceb? proving that you were right? hahaha
criminal justice degree? you gonna be a cop or you lookin fed/gov?
and yea there is actually a point in the body where they are supposed to cut the body panel and then reweld it to replace the fender. the rocker panel was also separate on the first gen
About the fender, really? So hypothetically, if they must repaint the TSX, that whole panel on each side of the vehicle would need to be repainted? I would assume that you can't just paint half of the panel and blend it as the color probably wouldn't match. If that's the case, I'm a bit more pissed off than I ever was as that's nearly half of the car! Luckily I'm not temperamental or very emotional or I'd mess something up in the talks if needed.
07-08-2012, 08:03 AM
#48
legally, negative. but i know a good bit about the law, and i could pass for one lmfao. im doing a 3 year program to get a B.S. in BioChem, transferring straight into a 4 year to finish out for my PharmD, and then 2 more years to obtain my juris doctor, aka law degree. i intend on going into pharm law, and i like to be well equipped.
i am dead on in my interpretation of the law, the problem is, any lawyer will tell you this, not even the law knows what it really means. each one has a gray area that can be fought, and a good enough lawyer can win on a BS technicality. remember the movie liar liar where jim carrey can't lie? the "wife" gets half even though she obviously cheated because she used a fake ID to get married and sign the prenup. she was 17 and technically couldn't sign a contract, therefore it is void, even though she lied. we are suggesting that even though i am correct that you can legally record a conversation if there is no expectation to privacy, a lawyer will argue where does one really expect privacy, as that is not blatantly stated. and despite him being right or wrong, a court case is never fun. and ABSOLUTELY NO RECORDING DEVICES are allowed in a locker room or bathroom, public or private. not just video. the law states that one cannot expect privacy in an open area where passerby's may hear the convo, but a closed office even in a public space cannot be recorded without consent
we were just saying, hey you know what, you may be right, but its more trouble that its worth. like proving to your wife that your right. does that ever get you anywhere ceb? proving that you were right? hahaha
criminal justice degree? you gonna be a cop or you lookin fed/gov?
and yea there is actually a point in the body where they are supposed to cut the body panel and then reweld it to replace the fender. the rocker panel was also separate on the first gen
i am dead on in my interpretation of the law, the problem is, any lawyer will tell you this, not even the law knows what it really means. each one has a gray area that can be fought, and a good enough lawyer can win on a BS technicality. remember the movie liar liar where jim carrey can't lie? the "wife" gets half even though she obviously cheated because she used a fake ID to get married and sign the prenup. she was 17 and technically couldn't sign a contract, therefore it is void, even though she lied. we are suggesting that even though i am correct that you can legally record a conversation if there is no expectation to privacy, a lawyer will argue where does one really expect privacy, as that is not blatantly stated. and despite him being right or wrong, a court case is never fun. and ABSOLUTELY NO RECORDING DEVICES are allowed in a locker room or bathroom, public or private. not just video. the law states that one cannot expect privacy in an open area where passerby's may hear the convo, but a closed office even in a public space cannot be recorded without consent
we were just saying, hey you know what, you may be right, but its more trouble that its worth. like proving to your wife that your right. does that ever get you anywhere ceb? proving that you were right? hahaha
criminal justice degree? you gonna be a cop or you lookin fed/gov?
and yea there is actually a point in the body where they are supposed to cut the body panel and then reweld it to replace the fender. the rocker panel was also separate on the first gen
Interesting about Pharma law - my daughter in law works for a major bio company as the head of one of the labs. Hit me up the next time you're down this way and I'll get you the grand tour.
07-08-2012, 08:07 AM
#49
More or less looking to become a police officer and follow in my dads footsteps. He made Sergeant and retired a few years ago with a bunch of awards. I'll probably never be able to live up to that but I can sure try and be a positive officer in the community one day.
About the fender, really? So hypothetically, if they must repaint the TSX, that whole panel on each side of the vehicle would need to be repainted? I would assume that you can't just paint half of the panel and blend it as the color probably wouldn't match. If that's the case, I'm a bit more pissed off than I ever was as that's nearly half of the car! Luckily I'm not temperamental or very emotional or I'd mess something up in the talks if needed.
About the fender, really? So hypothetically, if they must repaint the TSX, that whole panel on each side of the vehicle would need to be repainted? I would assume that you can't just paint half of the panel and blend it as the color probably wouldn't match. If that's the case, I'm a bit more pissed off than I ever was as that's nearly half of the car! Luckily I'm not temperamental or very emotional or I'd mess something up in the talks if needed.
PM me if you have interest in Federal LE, I might be able to help.
07-08-2012, 09:58 AM
#50
Three Wheelin'
A bit of a contradictory message, isn't it.
Let's be clear about this - wiretapping and recording laws vary from state to state and there is sufficient confusion to stay away from any recording as it may get the recorder in lots of hot water.
There is no "expectation of privacy" (except perhaps for video surveillance) in a public restroom or in a school locker room. There may, however, be that expectation in a private office at the dealership.
That's all immaterial because he shouldn't record conversations.
Let's be clear about this - wiretapping and recording laws vary from state to state and there is sufficient confusion to stay away from any recording as it may get the recorder in lots of hot water.
There is no "expectation of privacy" (except perhaps for video surveillance) in a public restroom or in a school locker room. There may, however, be that expectation in a private office at the dealership.
That's all immaterial because he shouldn't record conversations.
07-08-2012, 11:30 AM
#51
This discussion is purely academic anyway since we ARE saying the same thing. The law is pretty clear in most states that you can't record where there is an expectation of privacy - the problem is that there a few thousand interpretations of what is "private."
07-08-2012, 12:41 PM
#52
You are absolutely correct that the laws are often open to interpretation and that this complicates matters. In a prior life as the HR wienie in a JAG office (my boss called me his para-illegal) this issue came up several times with differing outcomes. German courts hate any sort of wiretapping/surveillance (unless it is done by them) so they threw everything out even if it was legal under German law (but done by us) while the US courts we dealt with had a very narrow interpretation of 'privacy' and we would prevail as long as we showed that there was (or could have been) someone in a stall to overhear the conversation. Military courts were simple - we almost always prevailed.
Interesting about Pharma law - my daughter in law works for a major bio company as the head of one of the labs. Hit me up the next time you're down this way and I'll get you the grand tour.
Interesting about Pharma law - my daughter in law works for a major bio company as the head of one of the labs. Hit me up the next time you're down this way and I'll get you the grand tour.
You basically said "PD is right but don't do it because it'll get you in trouble."
This discussion is purely academic anyway since we ARE saying the same thing. The law is pretty clear in most states that you can't record where there is an expectation of privacy - the problem is that there a few thousand interpretations of what is "private."
This discussion is purely academic anyway since we ARE saying the same thing. The law is pretty clear in most states that you can't record where there is an expectation of privacy - the problem is that there a few thousand interpretations of what is "private."
and PyroDave is always right, and you shouldn't listen to him because it will usually get you in trouble. Pyro likes trouble
07-08-2012, 01:06 PM
#53
Awesome to hear about your Daughter, hey maybe i'll work with/for her some day haha. i'll be sure to message you, sad to have missed you last time i was in DC, i'll try to give more warning this time.
and PyroDave is always right, and you shouldn't listen to him because it will usually get you in trouble. Pyro likes trouble
and PyroDave is always right, and you shouldn't listen to him because it will usually get you in trouble. Pyro likes trouble
07-08-2012, 04:36 PM
#56
07-08-2012, 09:58 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
This discussion is purely academic anyway since we ARE saying the same thing. The law is pretty clear in most states that you can't record where there is an expectation of privacy - the problem is that there a few thousand interpretations of what is "private."
07-08-2012, 11:27 PM
#59
not a single good thread on this section of these forums ever stays on topic, ever =)
07-08-2012, 11:34 PM
#60
07-09-2012, 12:17 AM
#62
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
i do love suits... i currently own two suits and a tux. i think every man should own atleast 2 good suits. but i also dress alot older than how old i am. my usually attire is something along the lines of a dress shirt or nice shirt, nice jeans, nice shoes(not sneakers), and my hair slicked back haha
not a single good thread on this section of these forums ever stays on topic, ever =)
not a single good thread on this section of these forums ever stays on topic, ever =)
This is like the upper scale 8thCivic.com haha.
07-09-2012, 01:00 AM
#63
Pyro, not too shabby, not too shabby.
Krylon, I wore flip-flops and shorts today!!!
Krylon, I wore flip-flops and shorts today!!!
The following users liked this post:
MC MiYoung3269 (07-09-2012)
07-09-2012, 01:40 AM
#68
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
But no, not at all. I'm referring to you as the sexy newspaper boy from down the street. The reference should hit from Family Guy, but I wasn't being direct. You look nothing like Chris anyways.
07-09-2012, 01:51 AM
#69
The following users liked this post:
MC MiYoung3269 (07-09-2012)
07-09-2012, 07:47 AM
#72
07-09-2012, 12:06 PM
#73
lolololol this thread is great.
i think in ny, as long as one person know you're being recorded it's fine...that person (being you) knows so even if the other person doesn't (dealership manager/whoever) it should still be legal. i THINK that's the case for ny but i'm not 100% sure.
dave where were you when those pics were taken? it looks like some fancy pants gala shit.
i think in ny, as long as one person know you're being recorded it's fine...that person (being you) knows so even if the other person doesn't (dealership manager/whoever) it should still be legal. i THINK that's the case for ny but i'm not 100% sure.
dave where were you when those pics were taken? it looks like some fancy pants gala shit.
07-09-2012, 02:57 PM
#74
lolololol this thread is great.
i think in ny, as long as one person know you're being recorded it's fine...that person (being you) knows so even if the other person doesn't (dealership manager/whoever) it should still be legal. i THINK that's the case for ny but i'm not 100% sure.
dave where were you when those pics were taken? it looks like some fancy pants gala shit.
i think in ny, as long as one person know you're being recorded it's fine...that person (being you) knows so even if the other person doesn't (dealership manager/whoever) it should still be legal. i THINK that's the case for ny but i'm not 100% sure.
dave where were you when those pics were taken? it looks like some fancy pants gala shit.
and that was the Republic of Georgia's 20th Independance Day celebration at the Ronald Reagan building in DC
07-10-2012, 07:36 PM
#77
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
I took my car in to get looked at for several things yesterday morning and left it there overnight. They replaced the two interior panels that were scratched and redid one of the tints which had lint stuck in it thus bubbled. I asked them about a possible repaint if necessary and they agreed, but we made no decisions yet. I contacted my body shop and their body shop before I made any decisions or even saw a detailer for an opinion. Both said while they could blend it nicely, there would be a difference that's more noticeable than these scratches. In other words, I will not have the dealership do a repaint.
What is happening though is I will be searching for a reputable detailer to make the car look as nice as possible. Acura had given me a choice of one of two things though. They either repaint it, which I'd rather not at this point or they offer me an accessory of my choice plus installation for free. I'm so over this non-sense that I just decided to get the Wing spoiler that I've been wanting that I was quoted $650 or so installed when I bought the car. I'll go and see a detailer on my dime if need be so I'm not limited by their restrictions.
Before anyone says it - I'm positive this was the best option. I can't see any other way around this as the body shops both told me the area where the scratches are at will need to be repainted and than a new layer of clear coat will be sprayed across the whole panel from back to front.
Am I happy? No, I'm still pissed off. But what options did I really have? A new car was not happening. A paint job would have made it look worse once blended. So I either have a new paint job that's noticeable or live with the scratches and have a free wing and see what a detailer can do. The dealership is trying to make things right and I appreciate that. But this should never have come down to this in the first place.
What is happening though is I will be searching for a reputable detailer to make the car look as nice as possible. Acura had given me a choice of one of two things though. They either repaint it, which I'd rather not at this point or they offer me an accessory of my choice plus installation for free. I'm so over this non-sense that I just decided to get the Wing spoiler that I've been wanting that I was quoted $650 or so installed when I bought the car. I'll go and see a detailer on my dime if need be so I'm not limited by their restrictions.
Before anyone says it - I'm positive this was the best option. I can't see any other way around this as the body shops both told me the area where the scratches are at will need to be repainted and than a new layer of clear coat will be sprayed across the whole panel from back to front.
Am I happy? No, I'm still pissed off. But what options did I really have? A new car was not happening. A paint job would have made it look worse once blended. So I either have a new paint job that's noticeable or live with the scratches and have a free wing and see what a detailer can do. The dealership is trying to make things right and I appreciate that. But this should never have come down to this in the first place.
07-15-2012, 07:35 PM
#78
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
Just an update for all of you even though it's a small update. I took my car in on Monday morning and I'm still using the 2012 RDX w/ Tech SH-AWD that I was given as a loaner. We decided against a paint job as I said earlier and they're installing a wing. I guess it takes a while when parts need to be ordered due to the following issues:
1.) Driver side gunmetal trim by the steering wheel had non-removable water marks.
2.) Driver side trim to the left of gear shifter had a knife like scratch.
3.) Scratches all over the place, but that's not their issue anymore.
4.) Wing spoiler installation... Let's just hope they don't manage to "drill" holes in the hood of my car!
5.) Driver side front and back windows have bubbles in tint. The rear also has what looks like dust but it MAY be the solution still so I asked them to let me know.
Maybe I'll be able to pick up my car tomorrow. I'm still a little bit ticked off that they told me that the scratches are hardly noticeable as if that makes it alright.
1.) Driver side gunmetal trim by the steering wheel had non-removable water marks.
2.) Driver side trim to the left of gear shifter had a knife like scratch.
3.) Scratches all over the place, but that's not their issue anymore.
4.) Wing spoiler installation... Let's just hope they don't manage to "drill" holes in the hood of my car!
5.) Driver side front and back windows have bubbles in tint. The rear also has what looks like dust but it MAY be the solution still so I asked them to let me know.
Maybe I'll be able to pick up my car tomorrow. I'm still a little bit ticked off that they told me that the scratches are hardly noticeable as if that makes it alright.
07-16-2012, 12:04 AM
#80
AZ Community Team
Thread Starter
Thank you, I'm hoping so too. While I will never be 100% happy, at least the dealership is attempting to make it better. That's not worth a whole lot to me but it's better than nothing.