Well, I've got almost 4k miles on my TSX now. Overall, I'm rather pleased with the car.

It's a manual, and isn't burning any oil at all.

My only complaint with it is the zombie steering feel. The power steering is giving too much boost it feels like to me. In my view, the only time power steering is needed, is for parking to turn the wheels at very slow speeds. Otherwise, I like it to be tight..... The car should feel like it's steering itself at highway speeds.

I feel as though the modern EPS systems in all contemporary Honda cars is a significant missing ingredient in what used to be 'Honda magic'.

I understand why they do it. It reduces drag on the motor, it weighs less, it takes up less space, and most important of all, it costs less to manufacture.

But I think that Honda has been too lazy about improving their EPS systems.

The 2012 Mazda 3 I test drove was noticeably better than the TSX. I'm not sure what kind of system they use, but I read over at Motor Trend on the new Elantra (what an ugly car BTW) that they are trying to improve the steering: I also note that Nissan is trying some "Electronic Hydraulic Power-Assisted Steering (EHPS)" on their new Altima. Who knows how that works, but they are trying.

Are all Honda's gonna have zombie steering now forever?

Do ya'll like the steering in your TSX?

 

If you're comparing it to the last generation TSX...Then yes, it lacks feel considerably.

I personally don't find mine too bad...However I don't fondle over the steering either as if its BMW's steering.

Read that the 10's, 11's steering were stiffened up and heavier, which makes a pretty good impact as far as steering feel goes, but I can't imagine it breaking out of the "zombie feel," mode either.

 

Youre not alone on this. I too suffer from this highway vague steering. I feel like im always correcting it when I trying to stay in my lane. I noticed it the day I drove it off the lot. Two things that I dont like about my 2012 tsx 6spd is, the highway steering and the rev hang.
I feel like one day this EPS is going to get me into an accident.

What can we do???

 

I'm comparing it against any Honda ever made with out EPS.

I'm comparing it against my POS 2000 dodge Intrepid. I'm comparing it against my 2003 Mazda protege.

Can we unplug it? and go back to not having power steering at all?

 

Surprised to hear you say it's that bad. I also heard that significant improvements had been made starting with 2010 models. The V6 is numb manuevering back roads but great on the highway.

 

It feels to me that there is a deadzone when the steering wheel is perfectly centered. I just dont understand how acura could put something out like this. Is EPS that complicated?

 

The numb steering is, by far, my biggest gripe with my 2010, but for EPS it actually isn't that bad. Many are worse, like Kias and the outgoing Ford Fusion. At least it's accurate and precise, and although it doesn't feel very locked in, mine tracks reasonably well on the highway. Even BMW cannot seem to produce an EPS rack with decent feedback. I drove a 2012 328i Sport Line, and even in sport mode, it was just as numb as the steering in my TSX, and was lighter to boot. I was shocked. However, I do expect BMW and other manufacturers will eventually refine EPS for more feedback.

At least Ford, as evidenced by the new Focus, has figured out that a strong return to center helps to provide a sense of control that is lacking in the worst EPS systems. And the new Scion/Subaru sports car has EPS that actually provides good information about grip levels, so it seems to be a step in the right direction. (Yes, I want one!)

By the way, Mazda uses electro-hydraulic steering in many of its cars, in which an electric motor powers the hydraulic pump. This provides the fuel economy advantages of electrically assisted steering, but not the packaging and manufacturing advantages. It feels more like hydraulically assisted steering. Our Mazda 5 has this, and it provides better highway tracking feel than my Acura's steering, but isn't nearly as linear and precise.

 

Have you gotten to test drive one already?

What's the steering like in a new Camry?

Does Lexus use EPS?

 

Its making me miss the good old hydro rack and pinion. Maybe ill do a write up on how to install one from an older accord

 

or from a 1G TSX.

 

Yes, I drove a Scion FR-S a few weeks back. It is fantastic, even with the auto trans I was stuck with for the test drive. Incredibly, that auto is so good that it fits the character of the car. The steering has much better feedback than most EPS systems, but, like many others for whatever reason, doesn't have great on-center feel. At least that was my impression from the 15 minute drive, which did not include the highway. Obviously, this requires much more investigation!

Now that Toyota and Subaru have given us an affordable, (presumably) reliable, light RWD sports car, I'd like to see Honda do the same with a sport sedan. How cool would the ILX 2.4/6MT be with a sport suspension and RWD? (And good steering feel, of course...)

 

What tire pressure are you guys running?

I came from a fairly well modified Subaru (tried many different suspensions) with an STi steering rack, upgraded rack bushings, large front bar and I feel the '12 TSX steers better. Around town, on the highway and in the twisties. Maybe it's not saying much, but still..

Now, torque steer is noticeable, yes. But it's a FWD car. I'm fairly certain that with a more agressive alignment and 45 profile tires it would feel even sportier.

Stan

 

On my 09 TSX got Michelin Primacy MXM4 tires on the car and that made a worlds difference to how the steering feels, noise and traction in the wet, really good tires.

 

I considered a WRX myself, and its steering wasn't that good IMO. It seemed extremely numb on center, without the crisp response of the TSX's steering.

I'm sure tires make a big difference, and I can't wait to get some Contis on my TSX. I bet different tires would help the new BMW 328i as well.

 

Tires should make a large difference in feel. As far as rack's operation, I find it very nice. The Imprezas suffer due to the angle of steering components. If you've ever steered an Evo X, that is pretty incredible. But, TSX steers great compared to many other cars out there, I didn't find Mazda 3 to feel anywhere as assuring.

Stan

 

Being my first real car, I guess I'm just used to it. I don't feel any difference driving my car, then hoping into the family Yukon or Tundra, a friends BMW or Merc or Lexus or anything really.
It used to have a dead zone, but it either fixed itself or i got used to it, although i'm sure it's the first one for some odd reason.

 

I've noticed this as well. Really makes me miss my 2011 Lexus IS. Even with smaller 40 series tires and larger wheels, the Lexus felt a lot better on the highway. You could cruise at 80 mph and it felt great. With the TSX at 60+ I feel like I'm all over my lane at times.

 

I've notice with my old Hondas, after about 5000 miles, I get a little shimmy in the steering. I've hit a few minor potholes already (and one to feel major), and at almost 10K in a 2011 TSX V6... no shimmy or pulling.

I don't know if the system is making adjustments or not, but it's kind of grown on me.

 

I come from a long line of cars of many makes and one very fast AWD Twin turbo car. Of ALL of these cars, i like the tsx steering the best. I don't know exactly why. But I love it on the highway and it is incredibly predictable through the turns. I can still feel the road through my feet and through the gas pedal.

Honestly, it is the steering that has saved my ass from an accident on several occassions. The fact that it does dull the motion a bit only takes your reaction to tension away and you just point that freakin thing in the direction you need to go and the car will take you there. Every. Damn. Time. If I had an actual sports car or something close to one like the 370z I'm considering purchasing, I'm telling you it wouldn't have turned out so well for me. Why am I still considering a Z? I have no freaking idea other than another twin turbo monster on the horizon. But the tsx remains one of my favorite and most enjoyable cars to drive.

 

two things....
first, I like the steering feel on my '12 TSX wagon. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised on the feel and feedback for being an EPS setup
second, is the oil sludge issue isolated to the manual transmission cars or is it common accross the board?

tia, Ben

 

On my 2012 TSX Wagon, the steering is fine. On curves, it's especially good, weighting up nicely.

I also have the 2010 Mazda3. Steering is also very good and it has hydraulic steering with an electrically driven pump. See:

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...ring-type.html

The Mazda's steering wheel is larger than the TSX's. I suppose in an emergency maneuver, Mazda's larger wheel reduces over-compensation.

I like both of them and can't say which one feels better. And while I feel fortunate to have in my garage driver's cars that are also practical, I agree with the posters who say modern steering systems can't compare to the hydraulic assist steering in yester-year's Hondas.

Still, once you get the feel of modern steering systems, and learn to trust them, the implementation on these two cars -- while different -- almost make the Mazda3 and TSX feel like they steer themselves.

 

I guess it all depends on what your use to. My wife loves the steering on her TSX. However I liked the steering better on 3 of my S2000's, RDX AWD-SH, Lexus IS, 08 TSX and even some of my older civics. I do not like the turn in feel of the TSX either. Maybe it's because I have not got use to the car yet.

 

I think we are mixing up a bunch of things in a single thread. Turn-in is very different from steering feel, it can be improved by adding more caster, running different tires, installing a larger front sway bar, etc. The car comes with 225/50 tires -- road feel, handling and comfort will be vastly different from a 40 and even 45 profile tire. I wonder how much of the numbness you are guys referring to comes from the pillowy 50 profile sidewall.

I was skeptical of the electronically assisted racks and am old school myself, but I was pleasantly surprised at how much I like the steering feel of this car. BTW, right now I'm running 36 psi front / 34 psi rear, measured cold. Car came with 40psi in all 4 tires.

Stan

 

Ok, I did a little research. Two reviews -- in 2008 and 2009 -- mentioned the numb TSX steering:

USA Today: Healy
Cars.com: Hanley

According to the Hanley review, Acura introduced EPS with the 2nd gen TSX, replacing the hydraulic system in the first gen. Hydraulic steering was mature and offered great feedback, so by comparison, I think the shortcomings of EPS were more noticeable to auto journalists (and less so to normal drivers).

I *think* Acura tightened up the steering for the later TSXs. I drive the 2012 TSX Wagon and don't notice what they describe. Sure, my Mazda3 has better on center feel, but I like the smaller steering wheel on the Acura.

Just for further comparison, I rented a 2012 Camaro Convertible recently. Steering at parking lot speeds was heavy! My wife, turning the wheel with both arms, asked why the steering wheel was so tight. Well, they don't call it a muscle car for nothing!

 

In discussions about EPS, both here and elsewhere, different aspects of steering are often mixed or confused. Many, for example, confuse weight with feedback, assuming that heavier steering by definition provides more road feel. This is not true, because light steering can provide excellent feedback. Others mistake a linear, accurate response for good feedback, especially in cars like the TSX and new BMW 328i (and, based on reviews, new Boxter and 911), which have impressively linear and accurate steering that, nonetheless, provides virtually no information from the contact patches. And all of this can come under the general heading of "steering feel."

I'm sure lower profile tires would provide more feedback, but from experience and reading zillions of car tests, it seems few EPS systems provide the feedback of good hydraulic systems. When auto journalists criticize Porsches and BMW's for numb steering after the switch to EPS, you know the game has changed. For the moment at least.

 

The thread title is STEERING. So why not talk about all aspects of steering feel.

 

Interesting that Honda was one of the first to use EPS in the NSX and was praised for its steering feedback. Later they used it in the S2000, also regarded as having excellent steering feel and handling. Both of these machines are rear wheel drives. Perhaps tuning EPS for front wheel drive is a lot harder to get right.

 

I've wondered about this too. I suspect it's a combination of RWD and a lightweight pure sports car, in which very low levels of assist are appropriate. Sports car suspension geometry probably helps too.