Automatic vs Manual
#121
It's totally a personal decision, as others have said.
My $.02 - I have the 6MT and the manual transmission is one of the best ever made on any car. It really is perfect in many ways. The clutch is super light and easy to control even in high traffic areas.
Good luck with your decision! You can't go wrong either way.
My $.02 - I have the 6MT and the manual transmission is one of the best ever made on any car. It really is perfect in many ways. The clutch is super light and easy to control even in high traffic areas.
Good luck with your decision! You can't go wrong either way.
#123
Driving a manual is about as much a source of distraction as steering and braking. Anyone that would be distracted by these things probably shouldn't be driving. Putting on makeup, eating, changing a CD, or talking on a cell phone while driving is a distraction, not operating the vehicle.
#124
I plan on purchasing or leasing a TSX towards the end of 2009 and I need some input or opinions on which transmission to get. I did drive an automatic TSX in 2006 and I thought that it performed very well. The automatic had a sporty nature and it always seemed to be in the correct gear for the twisty road that I was on. I also drove a Civic Si in 2008 and I thought that the 6 speed manual was awesome. I believe that the TSX and Civic Si manual transmissions are pretty much the same. Correct me if I'm wrong. The automatic now has paddle shifters but, I don't know if they are very functional. Are they? Is the automatic with the paddles decent enough to make it sporty? I know it's not a DSG, that would be nice though.
I'm an indecisive person and I see the pros and cons of both transmissions. Please tell me your experiences with both of them and maybe why you chose what you did. Thanks for the help in advance and I hope to join you all soon in the Acura community.
I'm an indecisive person and I see the pros and cons of both transmissions. Please tell me your experiences with both of them and maybe why you chose what you did. Thanks for the help in advance and I hope to join you all soon in the Acura community.
#125
WTH happened to my garage
#127
^^interesting thing is, for some makes and models, you could put an ad out that says "will only sell to enthusiasts" or "would like to sell to knowledgeable buyers" and get a good or better price for manuals.
Not sure the TSX is that way, but with the limitation that you can't swap an MT into an AT, I'm sure the rareness of the 6mt will affect prices sooner or later, at least on the private market.
Not sure the TSX is that way, but with the limitation that you can't swap an MT into an AT, I'm sure the rareness of the 6mt will affect prices sooner or later, at least on the private market.
#128
WTH happened to my garage
#129
#130
I think that's because you just made his job harder more than anything. He knows he'll be saying "no, we don't have it in that color.. no we don't have any with that trim... we can bring one in from out of state..."
#131
Racer
Mine gave me a similar reaction. Especially when they had 4 6MT's on the lot at the time, and non of them were the color combo I wanted. HAHA
#133
#134
WTH happened to my garage
I think I still have two of the three contracts filled out by the dealer *and* signed by me for one of the PMM/Ebony 6MT's I purchased but didn't get because they were picking their noses and didn't send a truck to go get it two weeks later.
#136
For my money MT is sporty in itself. It lends itself to hard driving because the RPMs continue to build until you decide otherwise. People only drive hard for sport unless they are late for work or whatever. If you equiped a minivan with an MT I'd feel that minivan was sporty.
#137
WTH happened to my garage
#138
All I know is M/T can save you money on gas, longer brake life, keeps you more focused on the road, and most importantly is more fun.
and for all s2k lovers, maybe this will make you like your TSX even more...the TSX has been called "the 4 door S2000".
and for all s2k lovers, maybe this will make you like your TSX even more...the TSX has been called "the 4 door S2000".
#142
Here is an easy way to help you decide.
Do you want performance and control for those times that you are carving up canyons or twisty roads. - get manual
Do you want gas mileage increase and not have to change gear = get auto.
Remember the auto shift with the paddles are NO replacement for a 6speed manual. I found that out the hard way a few times that have i take the longer route home. You get stuck between 2-3-4 and 3rd is the best gear to be in.
Do you want performance and control for those times that you are carving up canyons or twisty roads. - get manual
Do you want gas mileage increase and not have to change gear = get auto.
Remember the auto shift with the paddles are NO replacement for a 6speed manual. I found that out the hard way a few times that have i take the longer route home. You get stuck between 2-3-4 and 3rd is the best gear to be in.
#143
I went with the AT. I was going to get a MT, but there were several things that swayed me to the AT:
- my finacee, who purchased the car with me, does not want to learn to drive a MT
- I have a 100 km round trip commute daily in mostly stop and go traffic
- I have decided to one day (hopefully soon) get a small little MT coupe for weekends and occasional commuting - a "fun car"
I have often found, as an AT driver with both my TSX and my previous car, that some MT drivers can be pretty snobby when it comes to their view that a MT is superior. And I guess a lot of AT drivers get offended (maybe they take comments to heart and feel that they are somehow less of a driver because they have an AT?) and so they get defensive and snarky about the benefits of driving and AT.
I think that everyone can agree (provided they've driven both AT and MT) that driving a MT will give you more of a feel that you are really driving, and will give you more control (think winter driving). And I think that everyone can agree that driving an AT is more relaxing if you are often stuck in really bad stop and go traffic. And an AT is easier on you if you have any joint pain, as someone else pointed out in this thread.
But really, who says that only 'sporty' cars should be driven with a MT? I know people who have Toyota Echos and Suzuki Swifts with a MT (because they enjoy driving MT cars), and I know people who have BMW 335's and Mazda RX-8's with an AT because that is what they felt was best for them. None of them are "right" or "wrong".
I wanted to have a relaxing commute everyday, hence the AT. And I thoroughly enjoy driving my AT TSX. Sure, it's slower than the MT version, but I didn't base my purchase on the 0-60 time - I based it on what I wanted out of the car.
Those who have the MT TSX and prefer it over the AT were obviously after something else with the car.
To each his own.
- my finacee, who purchased the car with me, does not want to learn to drive a MT
- I have a 100 km round trip commute daily in mostly stop and go traffic
- I have decided to one day (hopefully soon) get a small little MT coupe for weekends and occasional commuting - a "fun car"
I have often found, as an AT driver with both my TSX and my previous car, that some MT drivers can be pretty snobby when it comes to their view that a MT is superior. And I guess a lot of AT drivers get offended (maybe they take comments to heart and feel that they are somehow less of a driver because they have an AT?) and so they get defensive and snarky about the benefits of driving and AT.
I think that everyone can agree (provided they've driven both AT and MT) that driving a MT will give you more of a feel that you are really driving, and will give you more control (think winter driving). And I think that everyone can agree that driving an AT is more relaxing if you are often stuck in really bad stop and go traffic. And an AT is easier on you if you have any joint pain, as someone else pointed out in this thread.
But really, who says that only 'sporty' cars should be driven with a MT? I know people who have Toyota Echos and Suzuki Swifts with a MT (because they enjoy driving MT cars), and I know people who have BMW 335's and Mazda RX-8's with an AT because that is what they felt was best for them. None of them are "right" or "wrong".
I wanted to have a relaxing commute everyday, hence the AT. And I thoroughly enjoy driving my AT TSX. Sure, it's slower than the MT version, but I didn't base my purchase on the 0-60 time - I based it on what I wanted out of the car.
Those who have the MT TSX and prefer it over the AT were obviously after something else with the car.
To each his own.
#144
Here is an easy way to help you decide.
Do you want performance and control for those times that you are carving up canyons or twisty roads. - get manual
Do you want gas mileage increase and not have to change gear = get auto.
Remember the auto shift with the paddles are NO replacement for a 6speed manual. I found that out the hard way a few times that have i take the longer route home. You get stuck between 2-3-4 and 3rd is the best gear to be in.
Do you want performance and control for those times that you are carving up canyons or twisty roads. - get manual
Do you want gas mileage increase and not have to change gear = get auto.
Remember the auto shift with the paddles are NO replacement for a 6speed manual. I found that out the hard way a few times that have i take the longer route home. You get stuck between 2-3-4 and 3rd is the best gear to be in.
#145
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2009
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#146
#147
Missing My CL-S
iTrader: (1)
here's some old pics without the rims:
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-photograph-gallery-53/so-my-car-487113/
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-photograph-gallery-53/so-my-car-487113/
#148
I went with the AT. I was going to get a MT, but there were several things that swayed me to the AT:
- my finacee, who purchased the car with me, does not want to learn to drive a MT
- I have a 100 km round trip commute daily in mostly stop and go traffic
- I have decided to one day (hopefully soon) get a small little MT coupe for weekends and occasional commuting - a "fun car"
I have often found, as an AT driver with both my TSX and my previous car, that some MT drivers can be pretty snobby when it comes to their view that a MT is superior. And I guess a lot of AT drivers get offended (maybe they take comments to heart and feel that they are somehow less of a driver because they have an AT?) and so they get defensive and snarky about the benefits of driving and AT.
I think that everyone can agree (provided they've driven both AT and MT) that driving a MT will give you more of a feel that you are really driving, and will give you more control (think winter driving). And I think that everyone can agree that driving an AT is more relaxing if you are often stuck in really bad stop and go traffic. And an AT is easier on you if you have any joint pain, as someone else pointed out in this thread.
But really, who says that only 'sporty' cars should be driven with a MT? I know people who have Toyota Echos and Suzuki Swifts with a MT (because they enjoy driving MT cars), and I know people who have BMW 335's and Mazda RX-8's with an AT because that is what they felt was best for them. None of them are "right" or "wrong".
I wanted to have a relaxing commute everyday, hence the AT. And I thoroughly enjoy driving my AT TSX. Sure, it's slower than the MT version, but I didn't base my purchase on the 0-60 time - I based it on what I wanted out of the car.
Those who have the MT TSX and prefer it over the AT were obviously after something else with the car.
To each his own.
- my finacee, who purchased the car with me, does not want to learn to drive a MT
- I have a 100 km round trip commute daily in mostly stop and go traffic
- I have decided to one day (hopefully soon) get a small little MT coupe for weekends and occasional commuting - a "fun car"
I have often found, as an AT driver with both my TSX and my previous car, that some MT drivers can be pretty snobby when it comes to their view that a MT is superior. And I guess a lot of AT drivers get offended (maybe they take comments to heart and feel that they are somehow less of a driver because they have an AT?) and so they get defensive and snarky about the benefits of driving and AT.
I think that everyone can agree (provided they've driven both AT and MT) that driving a MT will give you more of a feel that you are really driving, and will give you more control (think winter driving). And I think that everyone can agree that driving an AT is more relaxing if you are often stuck in really bad stop and go traffic. And an AT is easier on you if you have any joint pain, as someone else pointed out in this thread.
But really, who says that only 'sporty' cars should be driven with a MT? I know people who have Toyota Echos and Suzuki Swifts with a MT (because they enjoy driving MT cars), and I know people who have BMW 335's and Mazda RX-8's with an AT because that is what they felt was best for them. None of them are "right" or "wrong".
I wanted to have a relaxing commute everyday, hence the AT. And I thoroughly enjoy driving my AT TSX. Sure, it's slower than the MT version, but I didn't base my purchase on the 0-60 time - I based it on what I wanted out of the car.
Those who have the MT TSX and prefer it over the AT were obviously after something else with the car.
To each his own.
Like you, I was headed to the dealership to buy an auto because my lady doesn't drive stick. But once I test drove both, I couldn't pull the trigger on the auto. The relative lack of power off the line simply wasn't sufficent to allow me to enjoy the car. My lady now has a choice of either never driving it or learning to drive stick. Unlike you, she had little say because I alone make the payments. I did let her chose the color though, so it made her happy to have some input.
You met your needs and that's all that matters. Anyone else's opinion is irrelevant because you have to live with he car, not them. If my car was commuting in heavy traffic, I likely would have gone auto too. But I live in the city and walk to work. So the car is for weekend errands, fun, and roadtrips. My needs were value for the $, fuel efficiency, fun, and two extra doors for easy access for rear passengers. So for me, value + fuel efficency + fun + 4 doors = 6 speed manual TSX. You said it best: to each his own.
#149
Although I do wonder why some people drive pure sports cars with autos - kinda defeats the purpose.
Ever see a race car with an automatic? Ever notice that you rarely see any automatics in countries where driving is a serious pursuit like Germany and much of the rest of Europe?
Ever see a race car with an automatic? Ever notice that you rarely see any automatics in countries where driving is a serious pursuit like Germany and much of the rest of Europe?
Formula F1 has sequential transmission, which is a clutchless manual. But then again, is the TSX a race car?
People drive manual in Europe because, traditionally, manual-equipped cars are more fuel efficient and cheaper. This is why Europeans favor small cars with small diesel engines. The roads are also narrower. So, going by your logic, small cars are what we all should be buying because the Europeans do it! Different environment demands different things. In addition, in recent years, we have seen that the newer automatics are actually getting better fuel economy than the manuals. The acceleration gap b/w manual and automatic is closing too.
For us, we chose the automatic because my wife does not know how to drive a stick AND she is stuck in traffic often on her daily commute. The auto shifts pretty damn good i think...and i come from a BMW M3 with SMG (sequential tranny). It is very responsive, as is the throttle.
#150
Is the TSX a pure sports car?? Don't get me wrong, we love out TSX. However, i won't pretend that it is a BMW M3. It is a sporty family car...no more, no less. We bought the TSx because of that very reason...it is safe, it is relatively roomy, and it is sporty.
Formula F1 has sequential transmission, which is a clutchless manual. But then again, is the TSX a race car?
People drive manual in Europe because, traditionally, manual-equipped cars are more fuel efficient and cheaper. This is why Europeans favor small cars with small diesel engines. The roads are also narrower. So, going by your logic, small cars are what we all should be buying because the Europeans do it! Different environment demands different things. In addition, in recent years, we have seen that the newer automatics are actually getting better fuel economy than the manuals. The acceleration gap b/w manual and automatic is closing too.
For us, we chose the automatic because my wife does not know how to drive a stick AND she is stuck in traffic often on her daily commute. The auto shifts pretty damn good i think...and i come from a BMW M3 with SMG (sequential tranny). It is very responsive, as is the throttle.
Formula F1 has sequential transmission, which is a clutchless manual. But then again, is the TSX a race car?
People drive manual in Europe because, traditionally, manual-equipped cars are more fuel efficient and cheaper. This is why Europeans favor small cars with small diesel engines. The roads are also narrower. So, going by your logic, small cars are what we all should be buying because the Europeans do it! Different environment demands different things. In addition, in recent years, we have seen that the newer automatics are actually getting better fuel economy than the manuals. The acceleration gap b/w manual and automatic is closing too.
For us, we chose the automatic because my wife does not know how to drive a stick AND she is stuck in traffic often on her daily commute. The auto shifts pretty damn good i think...and i come from a BMW M3 with SMG (sequential tranny). It is very responsive, as is the throttle.
To most Americans, cars are mere transportation appliances. People in Europe drive manuals because it's a driving-oriented culture. American drivers license tests are a joke compared to theirs - you should see what you have to do in Europe to get a drivers license. Most Americans would fail it. With many autos now getting better mileage, you still won't see them switch. That's why Europe has the best driving cars. Their cars are made for their culture's tastes and cars here are mostly made for America's tastes. Even American companies' best products are offered there and not here. Ever drive a Euro Ford Focus compared to the one here?
You don't have to defend your choice of an auto to anyone. There's a reason why 95% of North America drives them. The gap between auto and manual may have closed, but there will always be one. There's only so much the laws of physics will allow with the greater powertrain losses and weight penalty an auto imposes. I'm sure your auto equipped TSX is sufficiently responsive for you and is better suited to your needs, but let's be honest here: it's no match for the performance of the manual version.
#151
You do realize that most Europeans drive small rinky-dink diesel econobox, right??
And what do those Ferraris and Caymans and blah blah sports car offer these days?? Yup, sequential clutchless trannies. And according to Porsche, they expect quite a bit of customers to buy this option. Yes, these are not true automatics, but they are just as practical as automatics and anyone can drive them. In fact, according to a few manufactuers (see Caddilac CTS-V for instance), the auto 6-speed tranny actually OUTPERFORMS the manual in acceleration! How do you explain that??
I think that you are too infatuated with the European "culture" to realize that the other countries have caught up to those darn Europeans and may have surpass them too in some cases. (And this is coming from someone who owned a M3 and is currently driving a European-made car.)
BTW, if you think that i was defending my choice, then you really don't know me too well.
You stated this: "So for me, value + fuel efficency + fun + 4 doors = 6 speed manual TSX."
Well, what value are we talking about? Cost of maintenance?? Fuel efficiency?? Isn't it pretty clear that the automatic beats the manual in this regard??!! Fun is relative...so, i won't argue your viewpoint on that because it is YOUR viewpoint. 4-doors...yup, we autos have that too.
And what do those Ferraris and Caymans and blah blah sports car offer these days?? Yup, sequential clutchless trannies. And according to Porsche, they expect quite a bit of customers to buy this option. Yes, these are not true automatics, but they are just as practical as automatics and anyone can drive them. In fact, according to a few manufactuers (see Caddilac CTS-V for instance), the auto 6-speed tranny actually OUTPERFORMS the manual in acceleration! How do you explain that??
I think that you are too infatuated with the European "culture" to realize that the other countries have caught up to those darn Europeans and may have surpass them too in some cases. (And this is coming from someone who owned a M3 and is currently driving a European-made car.)
BTW, if you think that i was defending my choice, then you really don't know me too well.
You stated this: "So for me, value + fuel efficency + fun + 4 doors = 6 speed manual TSX."
Well, what value are we talking about? Cost of maintenance?? Fuel efficiency?? Isn't it pretty clear that the automatic beats the manual in this regard??!! Fun is relative...so, i won't argue your viewpoint on that because it is YOUR viewpoint. 4-doors...yup, we autos have that too.
#152
Setting aside the performance issues, one other thing to note is the car at idle, especially with the A/C on. The automatic transmits more vibration through the steering since there is more of a load on the engine at idle, amplified by it being a larger displacement 4 cylinder. The manual at idle is smooth as silk.
#154
Senior Moderator
There are more and more AT equipped cars being released that perform as well or even better than their MT counterparts. The new Camaro being one example and I think the new G37. Seems new AT's have less drive train loss or are geared more agressively. Having 6 and 7 speeds doesn't hurt either I'm sure.
#155
can we close this thread already?
#157
http://jalopnik.com/395504/2009-cadi...al-gets-556-hp
As for the G37, Edmunds had this to say: Six-speed manual G37 sedans shouldn't give up more than 1 mpg to the automatic, though, and we think there's a stronger argument for doing your own shifting in 2009 Infiniti G37 sedans and coupes.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=133130
Back to the TSX, I'm sure you guys can find a small handful of cars whose auto transmissions perform close to the manual version, but the TSX isn't one of them. I think we can all agree on that.
#158
Senior Moderator
I can easily explain that: it's not true. In 0-60 mph times, it's true both CTS-V transmissions perform similarly. But you neglected to mention that the auto tops out at 175 MPH and the manual at 191 MPH. That's not equal performance.
http://jalopnik.com/395504/2009-cadi...al-gets-556-hp
As for the G37, Edmunds had this to say: Six-speed manual G37 sedans shouldn't give up more than 1 mpg to the automatic, though, and we think there's a stronger argument for doing your own shifting in 2009 Infiniti G37 sedans and coupes.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=133130
Back to the TSX, I'm sure you guys can find a small handful of cars whose auto transmissions perform close to the manual version, but the TSX isn't one of them. I think we can all agree on that.
http://jalopnik.com/395504/2009-cadi...al-gets-556-hp
As for the G37, Edmunds had this to say: Six-speed manual G37 sedans shouldn't give up more than 1 mpg to the automatic, though, and we think there's a stronger argument for doing your own shifting in 2009 Infiniti G37 sedans and coupes.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=133130
Back to the TSX, I'm sure you guys can find a small handful of cars whose auto transmissions perform close to the manual version, but the TSX isn't one of them. I think we can all agree on that.
I wasn't referring to fuel economy when I mentioned the G37. Many AT's have for some time now (a few years) gotten higher MPG ratings than their MT counterparts. First gen TSX was one example. I was referring to acceleration. The fact that AT's have at least narrowed or eliminated that performance gap is noteworthy IMO.
And yes. not when the TSX is concerned. But I wonder if that has more to do to with Honda's AT. I'd be interested to see what a modern AT could do performance wise. Maybe we'll find out with the 6 speed in a couple years.
#160
Sit in both cars at a stop in drive with the auto and with the clutch depresed in the manual, and that will answer the question, there is a vibration from the engine on the auto, especially when the A/C is on. 4 cylinder engines are not as smooth in the firing sequence at low idle than a 6 or 8.