ESHBG

That's not stupid at all, and it was the same for me as well. A car serves a purpose and it has to fit what you need it for. No folding rear seats is what has kept me out of the TL thus far.

JonDeutsch

Yes, it's really important to me. I hate having metal keys in my pocket -- sharp devices that can ruin my cell phone screen if I'm not careful... devices that I need to dig out of my pocket daily just to drive my car.

With start-button ignition (not the kind where you have to insert a fob), it's just like bluetooth hands-free calling... you keep your 'devices' in your pocket, your car senses you have them on your person, and responds accordingly.

I'm not sure why this would not be compelling to most anyone!
Jon

nj2pa2nc

they are ok but since i have to carry keys anyway i could care less either way

hondu

Well I never carry my cell phone inside my pocket next to my keys, plus the key folds into the fob on the TSX, so nothing to stab/poke you. Taking my keys out of my pocket to drive my car is so natural to me, I don't really see it as a chore.

I guess to each his own. For you a deal-breaker, for me, not at all.

RkFast

Yeah, digging that 2 oz thin metal thingy out of your pocket "just to drive your car" is a real chore.

Good Lord.........

Rocket_man

I think you are missing the point...

- You use the remote to unlock the car right? Open the trunk? Why not use the key instead? It only take a second more, not much of a chore.
- Automatic temperature control? Why bother? It only takes a second to change the temp, not much of a chore there either
- Intermittent wipers? Waste of money, it is not a chore at all to turn the wipers on and off.

Cars at a lower cost point have this feature. It is increasingly common and Acura is well behind this power curve on this for the TSX. When you have your hands full of stuff getting in/out of the car it is one less thing to worry about dealing with. I can buy a car with the "Technology Package" that doesn't include a feature available on the Nissan Sentra?... from a car maker that markets itself as a tech-forward brand? It just doesn't make sense. Acura says this about it in the TL... "The Keyless Access System with push button ignition allows you to walk up to the TL, unlock the doors, have the car set your preferences, and start the engine without ever having to take the key out of your pocket." So why not on the TSX? Acrua deminishes the image they have been trying to make (not very successfully) that they are a luxury brand when they differentiate features within thier own line up. They are more worried about the TSX stealing sales from the TL but what they should be worrying about is the TSX taking sales from Infinity, BMW, Audi, Lexus. Is this one feature a deal breaker??? Probably not to most people, but it says Acura isn't trying very hard to keep up with thier competition. They have the capability, but choose to dumb down the TSX. At least make it part of the Tech Package.

mikeTSX

Very seldom will you get EVERY feature that you want. It's just their way of 'saving' features for the *NEW* and *IMPROVED* "whatever." This especially applies to technology - think tvs, think smartphones, think cars! If your car was perfect and had EVERY feature that YOU wanted, what would your motivation to buy the next version? And if it had EVERY feature that YOU wanted, what makes you so sure that EVERYONE else in the target demographic WANTS it TOO?

In the end, it's a marketplace - if you're not interested, move along to the next brand or model up/down - you have that choice and choice is nice!

SuperCK

I totally agree with this. I have the 2010 i4 and when I open the hood I have to use a bar to hold it up. WTF. This is suppose to a luxary car why I do I need to use a rod to hold the hood open. My damm 07 Camry had a hydrolic rod where it would hold the hood open. That one really annoyed me.

pinatubo

Here's my views
+ Keyless ignition. I love it. Carrying a huge key isn't my favorite and this TSX key flips in and out like a little knife is ridiculous.
+ AC (cooling) seats. I need it. I guess no one else needs
+ Rear-vent AC. I believe we all need it.
+ Fold-down rear seats. I definitely need it. That's one of the reason I shied away from the G37. Surprisingly, TL is the same.
+ 6-disc CD changer. I don't need it
+ USB port. Definitely a must
+ Hand-free bluetooth. Definitely NOT what I want, I don't use bluetooth in my TSX since I lose privacy (with others in the car). I only use bluetooth headset.
+ I think that I don't like most is what's SuperCK loves, the hydrolic rod (for hood and trunk). I hate it.

HondaOnWORKS

Agreed, I never keep keys and phone in the same pocket. No one does that. Pocket Knife style key or not its not even in the same pocket so no worries.

Also I some what I find the key less ignition useless. Lets look at the Lexus one for example. You would have to open the door by putting your hand on the door handle to open the door. Then get in a drive. I think personally its more faster to open the door with the remote, get in and use the key for ignition. Since the key is already out because you used the remote to open the door it wouldn't be a hassle.

If you counter argue and say you can do it with the key-less fob and not do the door handle thing, true. But why would you? Then whats the point having the key-less fob. Why get the key if you don't use it?

Like he said, deal-breaker = no. Having it or not its not gonna affect anything. Starting up the car is the same speed. Heck, I think even think opening the door is better with the regular remote. Because I want the door to be open when I get to the car so all I do is pull. I don't want to go to the car put my hand behind the handle (Lexus) wait for the car to detect the key and command then open the door then pull. Kinda slightly slower if you ask me.

HondaOnWORKS

Your points aren't strong enough. To keep turning on and off windshield wipers are a distraction to driving. To keep using your right hand to turn it on and off. Also the automatic A/C. If you are driving and the thing isn't automatic you can't focus on setting the settings while driving? Another driving distraction.

Also you can't compare using the remote to open the trunk and doors to not taking out the key out of your pocket to open the door.

Lets say you are using the feature of both keys here's the argument:

Using the "Regular remote key" you take it out open door (from a distance), walk to car, pull, seat, and start.

Using the "Key-Less go key" you walk to the car, put hand behind door handle, wait for car to recognize its you and the command, pull, seat and start. (Lexus version)

Personally, if two people to race on opening the doors with both keys the regular remote key is faster. Because most people just go to the car and pull the door handle and go. With the new key you can't just pull right away. You have to wait 1-2 seconds for the car to recognize you. It might seem like a cool new technology but its not.

Also some key-less go keys are retarded. Like the BMW version for example. You get the push start ignition, and opening the door w/o using the key. But then you have to insert the key fob that you didn't have to take into a slot to unlock the wheel.... What's the point of those other features if at the end you still have to take out the key to insert to unlock the wheel? Fail?

Some key-less go keys are retarded/dangerous. Like the Chevy designed ones. There signal ranges pretty far, so if you are eating at a restaurant, and your parked right outside. A thief can open your car and steal stuff. Or drive it a block or 2 away. This is said, to be proven on Top Gear; where signal of key-less go keys can have long range signals. (From what I know the Lexus one is not that long).

You say Acura isn't trying very hard, but just because they don't offer an useless key-less go key doesn't mean they aren't. Some people don't even get it. Some people don't want it. BMW/Benz "offer" the key-less go for an extra 500-700$. Personally, I think that useless key-less go key isn't worth that much. I do agree on one thing though; Acura should at least offer it for a price. Not standard.

Chewbach

I never understood the "value" of having a start-button ignition until I actually had a car with this feature. It is really convenient to not need to dig your keys out to unlock and start the car. (Especially when it's raining and your hands are full.) There's no way I'd want to give it up. Of course, I wouldn't say it's a "deal breaker", but definitely a mark against Acura.

Consequently, the MDX doesn't have push button start either.

SSFTSX

you can buy software package from Best buy for Iphone, blackberry for push button start on the phone. total cost installation included is $500. which most of Auto manufactuer charge.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....&pt=1267336801

vash337

solid post

HondaOnWORKS

You said, its convenient when its raining and your hands are full? If your hands are full that means you can't pull the door handle anyways? Correct? I think you need at least a somewhat free hand to pull the door. For the key-less go your hand has to touch the back of the door handle (Lexus version) for the car to recognize there's key and the command to open the door. If your hands are full you can't do that anyways.

So basically you need 1 hand free, and 1 hand on umbrella (raining) so that 1 free hand can just get the key, and open the door. And your term of digging through for your key? Ehh? Are you a girl that carries your keys in your bag? No? Guys keep there keys in one separate pocket for easy access.

Bottom line: You are gonna need a free hand either way. To open the door with key less go or regular remote.

Colin

The naiveté here is just so adorable. The bottom line is, surprise, the bottom line. Every car manufacturer tries to sell as many of their product as they can while simultaneously spending as little as they can. This is not a "Honda thing", every manufacturer tries to do this.

So why do the so called "lowered lines" offer features that the TSX lacks? It is because they are "lower" lines. Their goal is to convince the consumer that they offer more content for less money and that you are only paying for a badge when you buy a higher line automobile. There is nothing wrong with this strategy. Acura's goal is to do this very same thing to the manufacturer's sitting "above" them in the automotive food chain. And it should come as no surprise that the higher you go "prestige-wise" the less you seem to get for your money.

As someone noted above, the MDX does not have the keyless access system or push button start, yet they still managed to sell 4000 units last month. This is because, taken as a whole, the MDX still offers more value than the competition even with the omission of push button start. And quite frankly if there was one car that needs push button start more than any other, it is the base TL. So while I agree it would be nice to have push button start in the TSX, I think the TL needs more help.

Chewbach

Have you ever held an umbrella in the same hand that you need to use to dig your keys out of your pocket with? (i.e. Umbrella in you right hand, keys in your right front jeans pocket.). Have you ever needed to search all your pockets for your keys while holding an umbrella, or briefcase?

Do yourself a favor and go over to Edmunds and lookup ANY car that has push button start, and see how many people list it as a "favorite feature". Clearly, you have never owned a car with this feature, yet you seem to believe it offers
no value.

Acura does a great job with offering "high value" packages, but they are missing the mark on this feature. Either that, or virtually ALL other luxury car manufacturers (not to mention a lot of non-luxury brands) got it wrong.

Rocket_man

HondaOnWorks, you are too young maybe to recall that intermittent wipes, automatic temp controls, key fobs, power windows.... are features that cars back when I was 21 did not have. So yeah, everyone adjusted the A/C (if you even had it) and ran the wipers, and slide the key in the door (and scratched the crap out of the paint) and cranked the windows up and down. These features of convenience are now standard on most every car out there. Is it necessary for the basic function of transportation? No, but consumers demand them, even expect them on all but the most basic econo-boxes so car makers put them in just about all the cars they sell. I think push-button start will be one of those features in 5 years people will expect to have in any car with similar convenience features. It is already showing up more and more on lower priced cars. Sure maybe the there are tweaks/improvements to specific implementations, but then this means Acura will be behind the power curve again.

Rocket_man

Colin, I'm having a little trouble understanding your logic. Sure I understand car manufacturers are trying to achieve some cost efficiency, but the Sentra starts at $15,000 and Nissan manages to find some room to include this feature (yes it is an option) in the car. The Sonata starts at $19K and is a standard feature. The Sentra is not in competition with the TSX, neither really is the Sonata but it does compete with the Accord. So when will the Accord have to step up to compete? So how then can Honda sell thier luxury brand without a feature their family car has?

I think of Acura, Lexus, Infinity as luxury brands, not "lower" lines. What you are really saying is that Acura is dumbing down the TSX (and I guess the basic TL) so that it does not steal sales from the non-Tech TL's. So the TSX is Acura's Lower Line. But instead Acura across the line should be a "Higher" brand. If an Acura customer buys a TSX instead of a TL Acura still made the sale. If they buy an IS250 Acura lost a sale. So why dumb down the TSX? They should be trying to establish the Acura brand as a whole as 'above' or equal to thier competition at a lower price point.

The MDX is a great overall package if you are in the market for that type of vehicle. At some point Acura will have to put in features like push-button start to stay competitive. They don't want to wait until sales are reduced and be forced to react. Be proactive.

You mention the base TL needs this feature.. but this goes against your earlier logic. If the base TL needs it, the TSX would also benefit from it.

Later this year (maybe early '11) Infinity will begin to offer thier G25. The rumor is that it will be in the $28-29K range. Not sure what features this base model will have but even 'dumbed down' to separate it from the G37 like the TSX is to the TL, it will have a ~230hp / ~190ft-lb, rear wheel drive car that will directly compete with the 200 hp / 170ft-lb front drive base TSX. TSX is going to need all the help it can get to keep up with that. They should be proactive, not reactive, otherwise they are conceding sales to thier competition.

As I said before the push button start is not a deal-breaker, but it is puzzeling why they wait to offer this feature that is in the end inevitable for a car at this price point. But at least include it in the Tech package. The TSX needs to keep up or it will not be able to compete. Even without this particular feature the TSX is a great value, can't argue there. But this one feature, especially as part of the tech package, is not going to kill that.

Colin

You missed my point entirely. The Sentra may offer such a feature because it is perceived as a less prestigious alternative to the Civic (for example). in fact, you might argue that at the Sentra price point, the addition of push button start might be the one factor that influences a buyer to purchase the Nissan vs. the Honda.
The same could be said for the Sonata, it offers a additional features that the Accord does not have because it's a Hyundai and not a Honda. In a way, these examples you've cited reinforce my point

Acura and Infiniti are "near luxury" brands. I think they would acknowledge that they are chasing Mercedes, BMW and Lexus in terms of customer perception and prestige. So, while I agree that they are "higher brands" than the mass market product (such as Honda, Toyota and Hyundai) they are still forced to play the "value game" of offering"more for less" vs. the European way of offering "less for more"

I was not saying that the TSX is dumbed down to protect the TL, I was saying that the TL needs the feature because the base TL is not competitive amongst the cars it's supposed to compete with.

So let's say a feature like push button start costs $500 (as cited above). If you were a product planner and you went to your boss and said "hey, I'd like to add push button start to all tech package TSXs" your boss is going to say, " OK, that's $500 times 20,000 units of additional cost for a total of $10,000,000 of added cost, how many additional sales will this feature earn us?" Let's say it doesn't cost $500 to the manufacture, but if it was $100, (which is not unreasonable), that still $2,000,000 of added cost. I think you can see that there is no reasonable business case to add such a feature. IOW, you can't gain enough additional sales on the already well equipped TSX to pay for the extra feature.

Especially in the case of the TSX. This car was on the drawing boards when the yen was 100 to the dollar. In an 85 yen to the dollar world I would question if the TSX even makes money as it is.

I would be the first to admit that the G25 is going to be a problem for the TSX. It's going to be a huge problem for the TSX. However, if infinity follows their normal pricing structure there may be as much as a $10,000 dollar difference between the base model and a loaded version. This and fuel economy may be the only things in the TSX's favor.

Then again, this car is not here yet and by the time it arrives the TSX will be one year away from a full model change. Believe me, I've been in this game for a long time and I remember 2003 when we were having a hard time with the outgoing 3.2 TL vs. the then all new G35. Of course, Acura replied with the spectacular 2004 TL. It's all about product cycles. As you noted above, it's not a deal breaker and let's face facts, if the TSX had this feature, people here would take it for granted and start clamoring for the next "got to have it" item.

Jazzyguy

I was going to post this exact statement. Well said

pinatubo

We are moving with the new high-tech features.
It's just a matter of time, yes, TSX will implement keyless ignition, rear-vent AC, voice recog. to open doors, windows, even to start engine, how's about even "drive".
One day, in the future, that little gear-shifting stick will be gone, why need to press the trigger then pull it to D to drive? Why not just say "I'm ready, drive"
Easy, people.

HondaOnWORKS

Do yourself a favor and stop being bias? Eh? So just so happen I hold my umbrella on my right and keys are on my right pocket? Heard of moving the umbrella over to your left hand and use your right hand for your right pocket? Unfortunately, I use my left pocket for my keys, because my right pocket is for my phone, so your "example" doesn't worry me, nor it worries anyone. Just switch hands with your umbrella how hard is that?

Why would you search "all" your pockets. I think you should know where your keys are. Briefcase? No. I did it with a backpack behind my back, umbrella in one hand, and holding books. So I believe multiple books is harder than your one briefcase? Also like I said, it doesn't matter if you have either key. You are still gonna need 1 free hand. For Key-Less go you need one hand free to give the command to open the door. (Lexus Version) Put your hand behind the door handle for the command to open door. So doesn't that require a free hand as well? As much as the regular key?

Why does it matter if people say its there favorite feature? I never said it can't be a favorite. I said its useless.

HondaOnWORKS

First off, it doesn't matter what you have back then or now. Second, you think I never drove one of those cars as my first car? I actually did, and its not convenient as more of a safety. If A/C wasn't automatic then you set it while driving that takes off your eyes off the road. Same for the windshield wipers.

I drove a car before my TSX with rolly windows. Yes, rolly windows. As much as you think the Power window is convenient it may be true, but have you also thought how much of a safety it is? Yes, you take off both of them you use your hand but the rolly window you have to roll with your hand which takes more time of your hand off the wheel.

Nowadays, there are volume control on the steering wheel, and voice command just so you don't take your hands off the wheel. Its more of a way car companies to make money, but its also more of a way to improve the driving experience and keeping it safe.

Low on the power curve? Really? Just because Acura doesn't offer one stupid key-less go feature you think people gonna stop buying Acura? You have to pay well over 35K to get the keyless go feature on some cars. Benz/BMW merely just offer it, and not standard. BMW sells the key-less fob for 700$, and is that stupid feature worth $700? No. That's why some people with a BMW (new ones) still have the regular key. I only agree that Acura/Honda should offer it as a feature (option) for the idiots that would pay more for it like BMW/Benz is doing. They know the option is useless, so they decide to put it as a option to make the idiots buy it.

No one is gonna stop buying Acura because of one useless feature. In 2008, the Infiniti G35 sedan already had the keyless go fob, and yet the TSX pulled extremely more sales than the G sedan. Also Acura sold more cars in 2008 and 2009 than Infiniti in 2008 and 2009 and Infiniti offers keyless go. It doesn't lower Acura sales if they don't have it. Acura is still doing better than most companies w/o this feature making this feature useless.

When you said, in 5 years people will expect it to be like this on every car. Since when you can predict the future? What are you basing this off of? Maybe, in like 20 years, yes. Why? Not all cars have RIMs right now... Not all cars have HIDs right now... Not all cars have LED lighting lamps right now... I think the basic at least all cars come with RIMS and then every car offering HIDS then the start button will come. Seems kinda weird to have a start button on a Basic Corolla with no Hids or rims, yeah? Right now start button is consist of luxury feature for idiots that want it. Also I forgot to mention some cars right now don't even have trunk release on there remotes yet. Some cars don't even have remotes yet. So your skipping way to fast with 5 years expecting this. I think all cars have to have the typical remote first, before this useless crap.

No matter what I say it won't mean anything to you, because its all opinion. You say you need it because its no convenient, and I say its useless because its not any more convenient than a regular remote key, because either you gotta gonna need at least 1 hand to open the door.

its rayden

i wouldn't go as far as to say it's useless. it's convenient and is 1 less thing to have to do to get in your car and drive. but it's not a big deal to me. but some people are more handicapped than others.

Chewbach

Clearly, you must be an expert in "useless". Your insight is quite amazing. Just keep typing.

HondaOnWORKS

Don't worry, I will. I feel a bit of sarcasm from your comment. I believe you are one of those people that think the key-less go is one amazing feature. Well, its not. Its just another thing car companies develop to charge you more. Its not much of a hassle difference between the key-less go and remote.

Chewbach

Thank you, Zen-Master. Insight without experience is a remarkable gift.

HondaOnWORKS

Without experience? You don't know me... o.o, so how can you say I don't have experience. My cousin owns a Lexus IS350... we traded cars for a day for fun... So hince, I keep saying (Lexus version) because I experienced that version of the key-less go...

Chewbach

A whole day. I stand corrected.

Out of curiosity, what does your cousin think of this feature?

frescagod

it's product segmentation/positioning. you can't give the TSX everything that the TL has; otherwise, no one would spend 3-4-5 grand more for a TL (plus the TL is ugly as sin).

why not have nicer TL leather in the TSX? why not have SH-AWD in the TSX? why don't we have 300 ponies in the TSX? there's certainly AWD and WAY more power at the 26-28k price point these days. why aren't you applying the keyless start to other aspects of the car that also lag behind the competition?

you do realize that the TSX, while an Acura, is still the very entry level car in the lineup, and it very, very closely mirrors the 4 cylinder Accord EX-L. it has a few more bells and whistles than the Accord but at heart, it's still just an Accord.

as for making keyless start part of the tech package, that's a valid point, but still just an opinion nonetheless. they have to draw the line in the sand somewhere, and on this one, it has apparently angered you.

frescagod

i don't know how many cars have vented/cooling seats, but i'm pretty sure very few do, especially at the $26k price point.

i think AC does come to the rear, under the seats. again, it's not ideal, but at least it's something.

CDs are obsolete. the iPod/USB port works decently, but it has flaws.

bluetooth in the car is nice. i don't want to have a headset in my ear while i'm driving. you can turn off bluetooth in the car and pair your phone to your personal headset, and your problem is solved.

i don't know how often you open your hood, but i open mine maybe once a month to check the oil. every car i've ever had utilized a stand instead of a hydraulic setup, so i don't really care either way. if the car was unreliable as heck and i was fiddling under the hood all the time, then maybe i'd be as disappointed as the rest of you on this point.

campaiar

Very few cars have cooled seats. Lexus might be the only one offering it on all their vehicles.

cmoney

and now, back to discussing the 2011 TSX.......

anticd70

Acura's website still has nothing on the 2011 TSX besides the wagon and that info is limited under the future vehicles tab. I cant even find a damn email address to email someone at Acura corporate on when we can expect an update. The 2011 RDX's are on the site why not the TSXs?? Anyone have any updates or a contact?

Colin

Dealers have not ordered 2011 TSXs yet, this means they are at least 2 to 2 1/2 months away from dealer lots. It is perfectly normal for them to keep details "hushed" as much as possible in order to preserve sales of 2010 TSXs. The Acura Style magazine has already stated that changes in store, so in many ways, consumers have more information than they normally would at this stage in the game. Keep in mind, that it is perfectly normal for Acura to release different models at different times during the year.

Lexusconvert?

So since the HDD replaces the DC/DVD changer does that mean that tech models will have the same storage space at the bottom of the dash that non tech package models have. And why woodtrim only on the base models and not the tech.

pinatubo

Assume that HDD indeed replacing the CD/DVD, the question is if we want to remove it or upgrade it, how hard would that be? or even possible?

Jazzyguy

I really hate woodgrain trim. Seriously! I'm 32 years old not 90. No way I'll buy a car with woodgrain trim. Just looking at it makes nauseous.

smarty666

Here is a great idea for Acura. Get freaking heated front seats that let the front passenger low back cushion heat up and not just the butt area. And Acura, stop using the airbag sensor as an excuse as to why you can't heat the back cushion up on the front passenger like you can on the front driver seat.

Every freakin other manufacturers can do this but you for some reason and they all have the same kind of airbag and sensor that goes along with it. Get with the program already. Normally you wouldn't think about this kind of thing, but when you have a major back problem like I do, this is a big ridiculous deficiency in a car this price level. They probably do the same crap for cooled seats, whenever they get that into the car finally.