2010 TSX - V6 engine confirmed
#81
these numbers are for the 2010? what source are you getting this info from?
Engines
dohc I4 Diesel dohc I4
Size, liters/cu. in. 2.4 /144 2.2 /134
Horsepower @ rpm. 201 @ 7000 138 @ NA
Torque (lb-ft) @ rpm. 172 @ 4400 251 @ NA
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...cura-tsx-3.htm
Engines
dohc I4 Diesel dohc I4
Size, liters/cu. in. 2.4 /144 2.2 /134
Horsepower @ rpm. 201 @ 7000 138 @ NA
Torque (lb-ft) @ rpm. 172 @ 4400 251 @ NA
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...cura-tsx-3.htm
#82
I don't know, Maybe its because we have nobody to trade cars with, but that many choices would be impossible to inventory. It is already at the breaking point with the variation/color combos of MDX. It seems that Acura went in this direction to increase sales, but I see no evidence that it has helped.
#83
Also, according to you, we don't play in the luxury field. So I'm suggesting that if we don't play there, they should keep it simple(r).
#84
Wouldn't a V6 in the 2010 tsx put it in the same price range as the tl ? It seems to me that honda/acura would be competing against itself. I mean they already cut it close with the v6 honda accord. It just seems like the company will now have a 3 way split in competition. People who want more power already find the v6 accord to be better price wise and for more luxury , power and a higher price they go to the tl. It seems as if this would cause the tsx to fail.
Last edited by myaccord; 12-25-2008 at 08:40 PM.
#85
Wouldn't a V6 in the 2010 tsx put it in the same price range as the tl. It seems to me that acura would be competing against itself. I mean they already cut it close with the v6 honda accord. It just seems like the company will have a 3 way split in competition. People who want more power already find the v6 accord to be better price wise and for more luxury , power and a higher price they go to the tl. It seems as if this would doom the tsx to fail.
#87
If a dealer only gets 12-15 TSXs a month and you have to split this among 4 models and all the color variations, adding another two choices only makes it harder for customers to get what they want without waiting 3 months.
Also, according to you, we don't play in the luxury field. So I'm suggesting that if we don't play there, they should keep it simple(r).
Also, according to you, we don't play in the luxury field. So I'm suggesting that if we don't play there, they should keep it simple(r).
Just look BMW 3 series/Audi A4/Lexus IS. they have atleast two engine choices with AWD option and packages. If Acura dont want to play in the same league they should rebadged TSX has Honda as sell it part of Honda network. they do it in Australlia. There you get 18inch rims as standard. HID with Washer/rear ventillation/front passenger 8 way power/parking sensors
Even from Australlia the give sport grill as an accessory.
http://euro.honda.com.au/optional-extras.aspx
#88
#89
why they cant available more car for US market when they are facing 40%downturn in Europe and 30% in Japan.? It is just they dont want to invest in TSX for US market to give more choices that will stimulate sells.
#90
How do you know they don't want to invest in the US market? I don't know this as a fact and I sell these cars.
You know, you always state opinions as fact. You evade questions directed to you. I have never seen you accept correction gracefully or say "hey, that's a good point, I hadn't thought of that" I truly don't even understand why you post here or drive an Acura? Sorry, but I'm afraid its pointless to discuss this with you any longer.
#91
I don't know if they are near their production limits, but neither do you. Typically, US production is limited at 40,000 per year.
How do you know they don't want to invest in the US market? I don't know this as a fact and I sell these cars.
You know, you always state opinions as fact. You evade questions directed to you. I have never seen you accept correction gracefully or say "hey, that's a good point, I hadn't thought of that" I truly don't even understand why you post here or drive an Acura? Sorry, but I'm afraid its pointless to discuss this with you any longer.
How do you know they don't want to invest in the US market? I don't know this as a fact and I sell these cars.
You know, you always state opinions as fact. You evade questions directed to you. I have never seen you accept correction gracefully or say "hey, that's a good point, I hadn't thought of that" I truly don't even understand why you post here or drive an Acura? Sorry, but I'm afraid its pointless to discuss this with you any longer.
So what they have done in past 6 years?
why same limit of 40K?
There is not even a wagon version let alone diesel and 2.0 engine in US market while BMW/Audi do. It is not that they are developing anything new. It is just rebadging work.
Honda has announced 10% production cut in November on world wide basis. Sales are even down much more.
Clearly they can redirect some effort towards TSX but they havent instead put money in failed project like new TL which cannot become global car like Honda Accord. It does not fit crowded environment of Asia/EU.
#92
It would be nice if you would stipulate the criterion or criteria to determine the TL's failure vs. success. Until you do so, you are just blowing smoke and will likely be called out on it.
#93
I gave BMW example as they provide atleast two engines for 3 series. and 3 engines if u include M3. I am not even going into diesel than it will be 4.
It would be nice if you would stipulate the criterion or criteria to determine the TL's failure vs. success. Until you do so, you are just blowing smoke and will likely be called out on it.
#94
#95
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Plain and simple, the TSX should be made available with as many different variations/trims as possible. Imagine the potential...
1. Current 4 banger
2. 2.3L w/Turbo
3. V6 with VCM
4. V6 with SH-AWD
5. Diesel option (only in 6speed)
This type of flexibility would truly put Acura on the map with the potential to go to battle with the 3 series line-up. Fuck that'd be sweet!
1. Current 4 banger
2. 2.3L w/Turbo
3. V6 with VCM
4. V6 with SH-AWD
5. Diesel option (only in 6speed)
This type of flexibility would truly put Acura on the map with the potential to go to battle with the 3 series line-up. Fuck that'd be sweet!
They need to keep the Base I4 and a more upmarket SH-AWD model with a V6. Similar to the structure Acura has for the TL. Base model and more powerful SH-AWD model.
The simple structure would also help with inventory issues. Pricing should be kept competitive with the 3 series, C class and IS. I'd speculate that the base I4 models price will remain $29K and $32K for base tech. The SH-AWD V6 price can start at $34K and loaded for about $37K.
If Acura caps the TSX's power output at 250 hp (as Craig was told), it shouldn't cannibalize TL sales. For $34K people will have the option of the smaller less powerful (but AWD TSX) or the bigger more powerful (although FWD) TL.
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For all those that say VCM "saps the torque from the motor" I say go drive a Pilot. That car is still very rich with low end torque. I imagine with premium fuel Acura can open up even more low end grunt to make the V6 TSX very competitive.
Also for them to decide to use the Pilot's torquey motor versus the Accord's confirms to me that they intend to implement AWD on the TSX.
And YES the TSX does have room for the driveshafts needed for SH-AWD.
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/sh...&postcount=176
TSX rear (looks like it's already ready for driveshafts)
#98
I mean TSX dont have 2.0L engine in US market.
I gave BMW example as they provide atleast two engines for 3 series. and 3 engines if u include M3. I am not even going into diesel than it will be 4.
TL has been in US market for two decades now. and they just provided a second engine with AWD. but it sales are on down hill and there is no chance of global success.
I gave BMW example as they provide atleast two engines for 3 series. and 3 engines if u include M3. I am not even going into diesel than it will be 4.
TL has been in US market for two decades now. and they just provided a second engine with AWD. but it sales are on down hill and there is no chance of global success.
Where, pray tell, was it ever mentioned by Honda/Acura or its official representatives that the current TL was intended for consumption outside of North America?
#99
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Ummm...not sure there Lou but if you call my hotline tomorrow, I'll be able to tell you if the Yankees are going to win the world series this season. Gimme a call, it's 1-866-BLOW-BIG-GOATS.
#100
Team Owner
Of course there is torque steer on FWD cars. I don't think I was saying its non-existent, just not a major complaint or issue like it can be on some FWD cars (Prev Gen Maxima, MazdaSpeed 3 are 2 good examples) I can't ever recall reading a Accord or TL review where the writer was concerned over the amount of torque steer. Again, that's not to say it isn't there, just not entirely bothersome.
Point being, I'd rather have to deal with torque steer on a V6 TSX vs not having a V6 offered. If the V6 TSX does become a 04-08 TL, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Point being, I'd rather have to deal with torque steer on a V6 TSX vs not having a V6 offered. If the V6 TSX does become a 04-08 TL, that's not necessarily a bad thing.
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/AcuraTL-S/
Originally Posted by familycar.com
The biggest problem with the TL Type-S (and the regular TL for that matter) is the large amount of torque steer that often makes itself felt in no uncertain terms when you trounce the throttle.
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2004-to-2008-acura-tl-1.htm
Originally Posted by consumerguideauto
Unfortunately, manual-shift models suffer annoying torque steer (pulling to the side) that compromises dynamic ability and driving ease.
I recall reading a number of reviews where torquesteer was mentioned. That is why I brought it up in the first place. I'm all for more HP in the new engine as long as Acura can address the negative aspects of it. I would want the TSX to remain nimble and well balanced with more HP and not become overweight and less manageable.
#101
Funny isn't it? I think they should put the F22C in the TSX as the option engine (not enough torque to cause torque steer), but there aren't enough 'true' enthusiasts for that option. It's ironic that so many complain that the TSX isn't the nimble car the G1 was, yet they want a V6 and an automatic. Irony is a bitch.
#102
The 2G feels more nimble than the 1G to me because it has lighter steering and a lower center of gravity. Even though there is less precision the car changes direction much more effortlessly than before. Maybe my idea of nimble is different than others. I'd like a V6 and AWD TSX, and to those who say that's a TL, just look at them for minute. They are not and would not be the same car. The TSX would still be several thousand cheaper and potentialy a few hundred lbs. lighter.
#103
I was going through EuroAccord specification. It offers as much as RL in US.
1. Heat obsorbing tinted windows
2. Front,Corner and rear parking sensors
3. ACC (adoptive cruise, LKAS , CMBS
4. Rear lighting, Ambient foot lighting.
5.Front headlight height adjustment for EX GT
6. Sport suspension.
7 Refrigerated glove box
8 TSA. Trailer stability assist.
9 Superdead lock, interior and perimeter secuirty alarm, tilt sesnor, security integrated audio.
10. standard manufacturer warranty of 90,000 miles with exhaust and corrision warranty between 5 to 10 years. standard warranty of 3 years.
11.Aerodynamic body kit standard on GT on model.
There are other differences like organ foot pedals.
1. Heat obsorbing tinted windows
2. Front,Corner and rear parking sensors
3. ACC (adoptive cruise, LKAS , CMBS
4. Rear lighting, Ambient foot lighting.
5.Front headlight height adjustment for EX GT
6. Sport suspension.
7 Refrigerated glove box
8 TSA. Trailer stability assist.
9 Superdead lock, interior and perimeter secuirty alarm, tilt sesnor, security integrated audio.
10. standard manufacturer warranty of 90,000 miles with exhaust and corrision warranty between 5 to 10 years. standard warranty of 3 years.
11.Aerodynamic body kit standard on GT on model.
There are other differences like organ foot pedals.
#104
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I was going through EuroAccord specification. It offers as much as RL in US.
1. Heat obsorbing tinted windows
2. Front,Corner and rear parking sensors
3. ACC (adoptive cruise, LKAS , CMBS
4. Rear lighting, Ambient foot lighting.
5.Front headlight height adjustment for EX GT
6. Sport suspension.
7 Refrigerated glove box
8 TSA. Trailer stability assist.
9 Superdead lock, interior and perimeter secuirty alarm, tilt sesnor, security integrated audio.
10. standard manufacturer warranty of 90,000 miles with exhaust and corrision warranty between 5 to 10 years. standard warranty of 3 years.
11.Aerodynamic body kit standard on GT on model.
There are other differences like organ foot pedals.
1. Heat obsorbing tinted windows
2. Front,Corner and rear parking sensors
3. ACC (adoptive cruise, LKAS , CMBS
4. Rear lighting, Ambient foot lighting.
5.Front headlight height adjustment for EX GT
6. Sport suspension.
7 Refrigerated glove box
8 TSA. Trailer stability assist.
9 Superdead lock, interior and perimeter secuirty alarm, tilt sesnor, security integrated audio.
10. standard manufacturer warranty of 90,000 miles with exhaust and corrision warranty between 5 to 10 years. standard warranty of 3 years.
11.Aerodynamic body kit standard on GT on model.
There are other differences like organ foot pedals.
The TSX as it is now is perfect for it's pricing segment, and I doubt that people would buy a $40K FWD 201 hp TSX even if it had all the features you listed.
#105
dɐɹɔ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʍ
same argument, different people. This discussion has been on going for around 5 years now and STILL no V6, I'm not going to hold my breath until Honda/Acura makes a public statement.
#106
UK is one of few countries in EU with Right Hand Drive.
Honda Accord Sells in UK are less than TSX sales in US.
Yet UK market has more choices in custmozing the Accord than TSX in US.
It is the lack of investment in TSX from Honda that is bothering despite excellent sales for past 6 years in its segment despite very standard car. Let people decide what they want. but Honda is not offering any choice. The Most of options in TSX are now avalable for EX-L4 cylinder Accord. We are not in 2003 anymore. TSX has to be updated with time.
Last edited by SSFTSX; 12-27-2008 at 10:26 AM.
#107
Agreed. SSF says that the RL (legend) is a failure and nobody buys it. If we discount this car (RL), the Accord is the 'Top of the Line' in Europe. Of course it will have things we don't have in the US.
#108
People are expecting more in compact car now than ever before.
navigation/parkingsensors/rear camera/leather seats are now in Civic around the World. So what does Accord/TSX brings to the table.
Actually TSX is equal to European Civic in equipement.
Even Civic EX has everthing from HID to Auto headlights height/headlight Washers/bluetooth/heated seats with leather/17 inch alloys.
http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/civic5door/
GM/Ford is bringing the Euro versions of there cars in near future. Its time for Honda to do the same.
I cant beleive you justifying Honda corporate policy for US.
#109
#110
Honda Accord EX went from 160bhp(old rating) to 190bhp(one new rating) from 2003 to 2008 in US market and here 2009 TSX is linguishing.
#111
#112
Only HID lights are difference.
Just look at Civic Accessories list. they give chrome exhaust/sport maufler/sport suspension kit/17inch HFP alloys./interior illumination
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...cessories.aspx
Your just not admitting that there is barely progress from 2003 to 2009 in TSX
when u compared to Accord/Civic. Lack of investment in TSX is Acura biggest mistake as BMW 3/Audi 4/MB-C/lexus IS.
#113
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Everything cost more in Europe and Australlia because of different Tax. thats not the point. Just loaded Honda Legend Cost 40,000pound sterling. Equal to $60K US. RL will be $53K. look at Toyota Land Cruiser. Almost $90K in UK. $20K more than US.
UK is one of few countries in EU with Right Hand Drive.
Honda Accord Sells in UK are less than TSX sales in US.
Yet UK market has more choices in custmozing the Accord than TSX in US.
It is the lack of investment in TSX from Honda that is bothering despite excellent sales for past 6 years in its segment despite very standard car. Let people decide what they want. but Honda is not offering any choice. The Most of options in TSX are now avalable for EX-L4 cylinder Accord. We are not in 2003 anymore. TSX has to be updated with time.
UK is one of few countries in EU with Right Hand Drive.
Honda Accord Sells in UK are less than TSX sales in US.
Yet UK market has more choices in custmozing the Accord than TSX in US.
It is the lack of investment in TSX from Honda that is bothering despite excellent sales for past 6 years in its segment despite very standard car. Let people decide what they want. but Honda is not offering any choice. The Most of options in TSX are now avalable for EX-L4 cylinder Accord. We are not in 2003 anymore. TSX has to be updated with time.
Also the reason The Euro Civic and Accord have more feature content than their American equivalents is because Europeans are willing to pay more money. They don't need 300 hp but they still want a well equipped ride. That's why Honda Europe can sell a loaded 160 hp Accord for MORE money than a well equipped 201 hp TSX. Europeans are more concerned about high end features and not so much high horsepower. Americans are the opposite and that's why we hear rumors about a V6 TSX and not a TSX with CMBS.
#114
#115
I'm not talking about exchange rates. With the feature content you're talking about the TSX could run as high as $40 grand. Who in there right mind would buy a $40K FWD 201 hp sedan? In the US it doesn't make sense to add that feature content to the entry level TSX. I know you're probably going to say that "Well BMW offers a variety of unique features for the 1/3 series". Well even BMW has a ladder of features that they offer on there models. You can't get Active Leveling suspensions on a 3 series, and leather comes standard on 7 but not on the 3. Acura is doing the same sort of thing just on a smaller scale. I admit that they do need to add some more optional equipment on TL and RL, but the TSX is pretty good as is. An additional engine is pretty much all the TSX series needs.
Also the reason The Euro Civic and Accord have more feature content than their American equivalents is because Europeans are willing to pay more money. They don't need 300 hp but they still want a well equipped ride. That's why Honda Europe can sell a loaded 160 hp Accord for MORE money than a well equipped 201 hp TSX. Europeans are more concerned about high end features and not so much high horsepower. Americans are the opposite and that's why we hear rumors about a V6 TSX and not a TSX with CMBS.
Also the reason The Euro Civic and Accord have more feature content than their American equivalents is because Europeans are willing to pay more money. They don't need 300 hp but they still want a well equipped ride. That's why Honda Europe can sell a loaded 160 hp Accord for MORE money than a well equipped 201 hp TSX. Europeans are more concerned about high end features and not so much high horsepower. Americans are the opposite and that's why we hear rumors about a V6 TSX and not a TSX with CMBS.
Navigation/rearview camera/bluetooth. these are no longer novelty. So TSX should not think it is well equiped. TSX is stuck with 17inch since 2003.
There are so manythings that needs improvement not just engine alone. Prices of electronics have substantially decreased. The price of navigation system in 2003 was completely different than what is in 2009. So no justification of price increase with additional features.
#116
U cannot fit the same amount of car in covered space.
#117
But why trade if the car hasn't improved? Big size of the TL? Its 6 inches longer. This means that if they have 32 TLs, with the old car, they could have fit 33 in the same space. BFD.
#118
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I am not taking about competition. Just look at Honda Fit/Civic/Accord over the past 5 years period. they are constanly improving with more features and engine options. Who would have thought 270bhp on 17/18inch rims Accord just 6 years ago or Civic with leather heated seats/mirror/autoheadlights. or new Fit constanly adding things.
Navigation/rearview camera/bluetooth. these are no longer novelty. So TSX should not think it is well equiped. TSX is stuck with 17inch since 2003.
There are so manythings that needs improvement not just engine alone. Prices of electronics have substantially decreased. The price of navigation system in 2003 was completely different than what is in 2009. So no justification of price increase with additional features.
Navigation/rearview camera/bluetooth. these are no longer novelty. So TSX should not think it is well equiped. TSX is stuck with 17inch since 2003.
There are so manythings that needs improvement not just engine alone. Prices of electronics have substantially decreased. The price of navigation system in 2003 was completely different than what is in 2009. So no justification of price increase with additional features.
http://www.hondanews.com/categories/740/releases/4419
Also the TSX hasn't really had a price increase. The prices only went up a few hundred bucks, so why would you expect anything significantly better? The 3 series's price has gone up more within one generation than the TSX's price has gone up with a whole model change. Where feature and content are concerned compared to an Accord the TSX ha quite a few more features and is simply a better car. The fit and finish are leaps and bounds better, and the TSX looks better (of course that's subjective). People don't complain or talk about the fact that the Accord EX-L even has more than a base 3 series (and even the base 5 series). The TSX is just fine as is (at least for the base model). I'm sure the SH-AWD model will have more features (similar to the base TL versus the SH-AWD TL).
#119
There is improvement in NVH levels with improved accelaration with real time traffic (but it is on my Verizon phone now so doesnot make that much difference for SF bay).
They had a problem as TSX/TL both has increased in size. so the space isnt that much much.
but look at what is happening to RL/TL/MDX
RL bhp increased from 225 to 300 (on new rating) from 2003 to 2008.
TL increased from 258 to 280/300 (on new ratings) from 2004 to 2009.
MDX increase from 240 to 300 bhp .
So Acura just like Honda has history of improving things with time. It is TSX that is stuck at 2003 with featurs/engine. they also increased the price from $28K 2004 model to $32K 2009 model.
but u still refuse to see this reality.
#120
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i get new tires with new cars and extra warranty and less maintiance price for next two to three years. essentially no brake job. There is alot of reasons for refreshing the car as a better investment alternative.
There is improvement in NVH levels with improved accelaration with real time traffic (but it is on my Verizon phone now so doesnot make that much difference for SF bay).
They had a problem as TSX/TL both has increased in size. so the space isnt that much much.
but look at what is happening to RL/TL/MDX
RL bhp increased from 225 to 300 (on new rating) from 2003 to 2008.
TL increased from 258 to 280/300 (on new ratings) from 2004 to 2009.
MDX increase from 240 to 300 bhp .
So Acura just like Honda has history of improving things with time. It is TSX that is stuck at 2003 with featurs/engine. they also increased the price from $28K 2004 model to $32K 2009 model.
but u still refuse to see this reality.
There is improvement in NVH levels with improved accelaration with real time traffic (but it is on my Verizon phone now so doesnot make that much difference for SF bay).
They had a problem as TSX/TL both has increased in size. so the space isnt that much much.
but look at what is happening to RL/TL/MDX
RL bhp increased from 225 to 300 (on new rating) from 2003 to 2008.
TL increased from 258 to 280/300 (on new ratings) from 2004 to 2009.
MDX increase from 240 to 300 bhp .
So Acura just like Honda has history of improving things with time. It is TSX that is stuck at 2003 with featurs/engine. they also increased the price from $28K 2004 model to $32K 2009 model.
but u still refuse to see this reality.
The reason Acura couldn't launch both TSXs at the same time was because dealers still had to sell 2008 TLs. So Acura's decision to delay the launch of the V6 TSX was wise and well thought out. The V6 will be the significant improvement you and others have been looking for in the TSX.